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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyFri Feb 22, 2013 6:48 pm

You can finish a battle with rapid speed and intensity and thoroughness, in the mind, that the physical battle can be used to simply draw out the logical conclusion:



Philosophy and debating is such a "martial art", indeed. You penetrate and wear down someone already with your psyche first.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyThu Mar 28, 2013 4:13 pm

Jiu Jitsu is a great martial art to learn what to do in a street fight: get out, get up and run.
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyFri Apr 05, 2013 5:23 pm

I'm trying to find out about hojojutsu for a book. Do any of you have any good references, videos/books/etc that you could point me towards?
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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptySat Apr 20, 2013 3:44 pm

Forging a Katana:


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyWed Dec 04, 2013 2:55 pm

Lyssa wrote:
You can finish a battle with rapid speed and intensity and thoroughness, in the mind, that the physical battle can be used to simply draw out the logical conclusion:



Philosophy and debating is such a "martial art", indeed. You penetrate and wear down someone already with your psyche first.


Quote :
"There are three possible results of the fight: dominance, subdominance and submission. The victor is ‘dominant’ his catecholamine and cortisol levels quickly reach their normal levels after stress action. Experiments have demonstrated that after repeated successful stress actions the base values of noradrenaline, adrenaline and cortisol are even lower than they were before the stress success series. This means that the animals have become healthier through the success series. The cardiac and circulatory complex is able to adapt as the low cortisol levels bring healthy sleep and increased immunity. Here we find a phenomenon which we can call the ‘samurai effect’. The successful combatant finds ever increasing inner peace. His fighting abilities create something like an aura. This aura can be perceived by opponents and can result in duels being decided on the strength of this aura and the opponent signalling ‘I surrender’."[Muhlmann, Maximal Stress Co-operation Theory]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyWed Dec 11, 2013 8:52 am

How do other people approach Martial Arts, Morphology and Culture? To elaborate: I was discussing with one of the black belts at Karate the difference between how the Japanese can function better at Karate- an example being putting 100% of their weight on their back leg whilst in back stance, as opposed to the 60-70% westerners do- due to their morphology. I'm interested in the cultural implications of practicing a martial art from another culture, and if it's easier to progress and maintain excellence in a martial art from ones own culture, designed to suit ones own morphology e.g. Classical Pugilism for an Englishman. Opinions?
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyWed Dec 11, 2013 9:53 am

I would think that a martial art develops in a culture in accordance to that population's physical type, as well as the culture, its mental type, its attitude.

The usage of an other's strength against him could only have developed as a defensive (re)action, where the defender has a lower confidence in his own physical strength.

Pankration developed in ancient Greece, it involves a western style attitude towards physical conflict.

From what I know the eastern martial arts depend on a psychological element.
It is a way of life, not only a way of defeating others.

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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyWed Dec 11, 2013 1:54 pm

SuperfluousMass wrote:
How do other people approach Martial Arts, Morphology and Culture? To elaborate: I was discussing with one of the black belts at Karate the difference between how the Japanese can function better at Karate- an example being putting 100% of their weight on their back leg whilst in back stance, as opposed to the 60-70% westerners do- due to their morphology. I'm interested in the cultural implications of practicing a martial art from another culture, and if it's easier to progress and maintain excellence in a martial art from ones own culture, designed to suit ones own morphology e.g. Classical Pugilism for an Englishman. Opinions?

Every culture has its own ideal of masculinity, and when you train in a dojo, *technically, you are effecting a personal transformation by adopting and adapting to certain ways of thinking, feeling, visualizing. This was the purpose of a dojo - when a man stepped out of it, he would be "more" in-sync with his cultural roots - "the refining of the reflexive and subconscious patterns using the conscious mind". To effect a way of life. To become a fuller Man, a rounder personality.

So depending on your ideal of masculinity and becoming that Man, you could train your body to open itself to cultivate a certain discipline, though your morphology will naturally alert you to your limitations or potential on how far you can achieve this.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptySat Dec 28, 2013 6:30 pm

Martial Arts - Page 2 Search?q=fencing+sport&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=J2S_UqKkFbDksATmuoGIDw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=651#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=XswyVwj2nPb5mM%3A%3B2yO8crHAT3KY4M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fstatic.guim.co.uk%252Fsys-images%252FLifeandhealth%252FPix%252Fpictures%252F2012%252F8%252F7%252F1344340934242%252FItalys-Andrea-Baldini-and-006.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.theguardian


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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptySat Dec 28, 2013 6:33 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptySat Dec 28, 2013 6:40 pm

I will try to start fencing very soon, as I think ill be quite good at it.

Since I have Italic heritage from my father.

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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 01, 2014 10:54 am

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 01, 2014 11:18 am

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyMon Feb 03, 2014 3:39 am



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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptySat Feb 22, 2014 2:06 pm


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptySun Feb 23, 2014 1:11 pm


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyFri Mar 07, 2014 2:49 pm

Skill and Art of balance





Everyone has their peculiar centre of gravity... meditate...

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyWed May 21, 2014 11:23 am

Quote :
"The makiwara forces one to develop his kime (focus) to a high level. Kime is
the focusing of physical and mental energy into a single point at a split second in time followed by an immediate relaxation of muscular contractions. It is a highly cultivated dynamic force in which the summation of joint forces come together at a specific time. Physically the large and small muscle groups contract exactly at the same instant.

Mentally ones mind must not deter or be distracted even for a millisecond otherwise ones total focus of body and mind cannot be used together to create the ultimate impact of the specific technique. An excellent simile is that kime is to a punch or kick as gunpowder is to a bullet. In everyday language it can be said that a person who has kime has the ability of a knockout punch. Kime is not the sole property of karateka alone as modern day boxers most certainly understand this intrinsic energy. Some people believe that certain people are born with this power, but no matter where it comes from kime is the essence of karate.

It is important to realize that the fist along with the wrist is what is developed when striking the straw pad. The wrist and the fist will never develop properly without awareness of making the fist hard through concentration on every muscle in the hand and the sinew in the wrist. Many karate students will waste a great deal of time if they don’t understand that it is the mind that contracts the muscles in the hand to form the fist. A “Fist of Iron” is the result of mentally concentrating on the contraction of every single muscle in your hand, wrist and forearm as well as all the supporting muscle groups from the legs on up during your makiwara training. The phrase “ones own iron will, will win out in the end” is one you should contemplate when training with the makiwara. This shows the relationship between karate and Zen. So in essence, the makiwara is used to train your mind as much as your punch or kick, so that it becomes as hard as steel but yet as flexible and light as the straw that makes up the makiwara pad.

It is the intensity of the concentration that develops ordinary men and women into what a real black belt is, in a real karate dojo. The main method of developing this attitude is the use of the makiwara. Your mind overcomes the pain and the desire to quit and when you overcome these obstacles you become a psychologically stronger person.

Over training in any one area is just as profitless as under training. The makiwara eventually becomes a very personal possession and when used properly develops one’s body into a powerful weapon."

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptySun Jun 22, 2014 11:18 am

קְרַב מַגָּע
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyTue Jun 24, 2014 12:46 pm

Krav Maga is neurotic and devoid of style, I really don't like it.
They have one useful element - "when the way is free, go forward".
This is taken from Wing Chun. My sifu, below, has taught the Israeli military in this principle, but of course there was no time to teach the proper art.



As a military style I think that Systema is unmatched. I find it to be exceptionally useful against bouncers and groups of hostiles.
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyTue Jun 24, 2014 3:47 pm

To Fixed Cross,

I think krav maga is a very functional martial art; it's intended for the brutal reality of street fights, not hollywood BS. The aim of krav maga is to cause as much damage to your opponent in as quick a time as possible, e.g., groin shots, eye gouging, joint snapping, etc. It's a very aggressive and lethal martial art. It may not look pretty, but it works.
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyWed Jun 25, 2014 6:15 pm

I'm just making an observation about style and preference. It seems clear to me that Krav Maga is designed to accommodate Israels unique fighting force which consists of men and women alike. Techniques like groin kicking and eye stabbing are typical techniques that women are taught in self defense classes. The whole principle of damage the opponent before he gets the chance to orient himself suggests a female target group. Legend has it that Wing Chun was also designed for a woman, a young girl in fact, who had to beat back a big man that wanted to marry her.

I'm not saying it doesn't work. It certainly does, it doesn't take much to figure out that kicking someone in the balls causes response time to increase. As effective as it is as a set of techniques. I would not classify KM as a Martial Art, as it doesn't offer any serious means to develop the body, in great contrast to Wing Chun and other fully fledged and mature fighting styles.

But listen, I'm not saying that all Wing Chun being taught would withstand good Krav Maga. Obviously not, all still depends on the warrior and his/her teacher.
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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyWed Aug 06, 2014 5:03 am

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyWed Aug 06, 2014 9:44 am

There's nothing feminine about gouging someone's eyes out, or ripping someone's ears or testicles off, it's primal. When chimpanzees attack, that's what they do, they rearrange your face and testicles. Another vulnerable area is the neck. As we've gotten civilized, the overwhelming majority of us won't engage in such tactics, we don't want to take things to that level, because we don't want to wind up permanently disfigured ourselves, or in jail, but in life/death situations, like war, being outgunned or outnumbered, or if you're facing an enemy or an unknown person alone in the dark, with no one around to break things up, if things go wrong, such tactics might be necessary, get them before they get you.
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 07, 2014 9:11 am

Yes, chimps. I couldn't agree with you more.
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 07, 2014 9:17 am

The idea that manly fighting is more effective than ape-fighting is apparently alien to you. We, men, invented the straight punch. Not because it is more civil, but because it is more powerful. Sure an ape can bite us and kill us in this way, but we, if trained, can ram our first straight through its head. Only men can do this, and only those men that have sophisticated control of their limbs.

In this way we do not have to rely in ape-tactics, even tough, in ground combat, we will instinctively reach for those means of we are on the losing hand. But to exert such tactics pre-emptively only speaks to a lack of power, a strong expectation of losing the fight.

In a standard fighting situation, you're not going to get to someones balls or eyes if he is well trained. Those are the areas men have learned to protect. Your going to have to use his attack as an opening. Manly fighting is like chess, far more difficult to get to the vital parts.
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 07, 2014 9:29 am

Femininity is far closer to animality than Manhood. Manhood is the art of fighting-as-culture. It is a type of fight that does not always prevail but when it does, it commands respect and prevents further attack. You can be pretty sure that if you stab someones eye out you're going to suffer the consequences. But if you knock someone out with a clean strike, you're going to be considered the just protagonist, no matter what the occasion of the fight was. This is how masculine spirit seduces woman -  to enforce ones strength with gift of measure and restraint, this is the promise of stability, sexual satisfaction, and a solid upbringing of children.

Teenagers view masculinity only as the power to overrule. It is however the power to rule over oneself.
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 07, 2014 9:51 am

In evolution as survival in the moment, only the fact that you win matters. In evolution as self-selection and procreation what matters is how you win. This is what separates man from ape and man from other men - man is able to prevail with more than just force - he is able to prevail with style, distinction, character. Perhaps this is even what caused the mutation to occur in the first place. A certain type of victorious fight performed by a strangely powerful ape, by which its audience was uncannily moved, that began to accumulate attraction throughout the ape kingdom and build up a culture of bloodsport. The apes that were capable of winning aesthetically went on to procreate with the fittest females and gradually,  the tradition of walking erect emerged. And speculating towards one of the greater evolutionary riddles - when the ape was full ready to respect himself as a being of culture, he began to shed his hairs, because the other sex began to take interest in seeing the creature naked, the tones of the body. Nature began to look deeper into itself out of a new won trust in itself as desirable, valuable.

To be valued is the ultimate demand of procreation. A woman is the center of procreation, her 'task' is only to be valued. A man is the valuing, who also needs to be of value if he wants to procreate by  having regular and prolonged intercourse instead of rape. In less westernized cultures, it is less important how a man looks, he only needs to provide stability. In the west, the selection process is experimenting and seeing of man can be turned into a kind of woman, an object. It is not given that this will actually work, or that it gives a small percentage of truly secure men an enormous advantage, as he becomes the object of anti-civilized fantasy. The Satyr is such a type of man, who thrives on women who are bored to tears with admiring a mans six-pack and wish to be treated like an indiscriminate whore, to be the pure focus of a pervasive hidden attention she senses both in herself and in the man, her desire becomes to attract so powerfully as to break through the mans masculinity itself and force him back to his animal nature. This desire is caused by the masculinity, by the invisibility of instincts. "A gentleman is a patient wolf" and in all blood-sport, a gentleman is the most impressive victor - it suggests excess of strength, the pre existing knowledge of victory.

And nature is entirely the product of excess, the accumulation of consequences beyond the current states ability to incorporate. Time presses on and pulls forth, we need to grow because all our acts are irreducible to our previous being. To shape and justify this excess-forming process to itself is what man is born for. There is no other choice but exuberant ideals that can never be attained - something must represent the even more exuberant reality that is concretely imaginable but needs to be prepared for.

Freedom is having found a way with excess, it means justification of being-as-growth.
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyFri Aug 08, 2014 11:30 pm

There's reasons why we no longer go for the eyes, ears, throat and testicles, but I don't think it has anything to do with the reasons you gave.

There are disadvantages and advantages to "playing dirty", just as there are disadvantages and advantages to "playing fair".
The most affective fighter, would be the one who could throw an accurate punch or kick when need be, and gouge a persons eye balls out when need be, it's all a matter of timing.

There are cultural as well as evolutionary reasons why we no longer play dirty, or fight in general.
As members of the same species, we're relatively equal, in physicality and mentality.
Therefore, violent competition has been partly bred out of us, and whatever violent competitive instincts remain, are largely "corrected" by society, but of course, such conditioning is more affective on some individuals than others.

In primitive societies, what little there remains of them, violent competition occurs much more frequently.
Aside from relative physical and mental equality, being a reason why eye gouging and the like, as well as fighting in general, has been partly bred out, there's a few more points I'd like to bring to your attention.

1. Individuals have learned to cooperate with one another in order to increase their odds of surviving.
You can't work affectively as a group, if half or more of tribesman are gimped, so it pays not to fight too, too hard.
2. Hierarchies, and with them the greater access to females and quantities of meat and so on they afford, can be established without fights to the death, just by sizing each other up, or fighting without resorting to lethal tactics.
3. those who are genetically similar to us (kinfolk), are in some sense, us, they carry many of our genes, and genes have established ways of protecting themselves, by learning to recognize themselves in others, vis. a vis. their hosts.
So these three reasons are why interspecies combat, especially lethal combat, has been reduced, but still occurs, especially in primitive societies, when necessity demands it, like over females, or if food is scarce.

In modernity, fighting in general is frowned upon, as violence has been monopolized by the state, so it's been discouraged, especially more lethal variants of it, and also, competition is less necessary, due to monogamy, and due to an abundance of resources.
These are the real reasons why violence, especially more lethal variants such as testicular tearing, have been discouraged, it has very little or nothing to do with aesthetics, or any such poppycock/flimflam.
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PostSubject: Re: Martial Arts Martial Arts - Page 2 EmptyThu Aug 14, 2014 8:50 pm

I don't think you've contradicted anything I said. It's rather all in support of it.
I think what you have left out of your consideration is that civilization is foremost a matter of bringing procreation further under the principle of the selection of the fittest by the fittest.

It is all refinement, increase of (self-)value. Surely you see that the element of combat is structural to the selection of males.
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