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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:56 pm

Lyssa, I take artistic, cultural, philosophical, scientific and technological achievements as an indicator of ambition and intellect. The Spanish and Eastern Europeans have had comarably fewer achievements, than the aforementioned Western European (Italy, Germany, etc) peoples.
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:00 pm

I have no idea how your bit about poets and heroes relates to this topic, but it is interesting, nonetheless, perhaps you should weave a thread devoted exclusively to said topic.
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:15 pm

eyesinthedark wrote:
Lyssa, I take artistic, cultural, philosophical, scientific and technological achievements as an indicator of ambition and intellect. The Spanish and Eastern Europeans have had comarably fewer achievements, than the aforementioned Western European (Italy, Germany, etc) peoples.

Your's was a good question, and I was trying to define the problem first before identifying its source or cause.

1. "Innovators" and "geniuses" are usually judged from the p.o.v. of how much they have contributed to the "progress of mankind", but who defines what progress is.
For example, there are people who would argue that Einstein ruined physics and the very mode of thinking, while humanity may hail him as a genius:
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2. When govts. invest billions of dollars in "star geniuses", who 'will' find that cure for cancer or aids or whatever,, how do you identify and appreciate those innovators who make mankind progress by exposing new angles, revolutionary thoughts in literature, new symptoms of society that govts. do not want to see... This earlier used to be part of the role of the poet, but now one even faces the trend of a democritization of criticism; "critics prefer description over assessment": [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


3. When education itself comes under the commodity framework of best education = max. profit, and max. profit = whatever prolongs duration of mankind and adds to his comfortable living, contributors to the pleasure economy, the production of "information philosophers",,, when you have such pre-set agendas, then prize giving institutions like the Nobel's just becomes a self-referring loop and you have real innovators sidelined and not even acknowledged. The foll. outlines the flaws in the selection process that has "created" the hype of the Jewish genius, etc.
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To explain a lack of innovators, I wonder if we must ask in the future, if a nation perhaps was not globalized enough...? Can't assess Spain just as yet.

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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:05 pm

You're confusing benefit with genius. Einstein figured out how to split the atom, figuring out how to split the atom required a relatively extra ordinary ability to accurately observe and interpret the world nature. He proved that some Jews have great intellect. That such knowledge was used to destroy hiroshima and nagasaki was unforseeable to him, but they were unforseeable to a lot of men, men who were unable to figure out how to split the atom, or forsee how such a technology could and would be used. So he was extra ordinary in his ability to gain knowledge about nature, but he was ordinary in understanding the implications of man possessing such knowledge. In other words, Einstein was possessed extra ordinary knowledge and understanding of nature, but not extra ordinary wisdom. He was still far more intelligent than the average man, who possesses neither, and he proved some Jews are very intelligent, him and Marx, and Freud, even though Marx's theory was proven wrong, it was still an amazing theory, eloquently and articulately expressed, a nigger probably couldn't come up with such a profound theory, but some Jewish and gentile Caucasians, can.
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:09 pm

Well, there's no question Einstein figured many things out, but of course he may have got some things wrong, and mixed up, but a retard couldn't add or take away from our understanding, anything good or bad.
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:29 pm

Yes, this has to do with subjectification of value, and morality, we're not allowed to pass criticism or judgement anymore, I may tell you a trees are green, or that the earth is round, but I cannot tell you the earth is beautiful, or trees are lovely, as beauty and lovliness, apparently, aren't a part of the world, they are a part of our minds, our emotions and aesthetic pleasures, so we cannot say, this work of literature is ugly, vulgar, base, dumb, etc, we can only say it is factional or fictional.

You're say we rely on critics to tell us what artworks, music, philosophy books, etc are works of genius, and which ones aren't, but critics no longer pass judgement on anything, so we cannot turn to them, or that they have an agenda for praising certain works, or they speak in a language so technical and verbose, and have become so isolated in their academic, ivory towers, that we can no longer look to them to judge, who is, or is not a genius, what work of poetry or literature or music is pleasing, beautiful, awe inspiring, elegant, etc.

Still though, all that might be true, but you don't see African Americans influencing us in anything but music, for better or for worse, it is white philosophers, and scientists, and white industry, and commerce, that effects this world, for better or for worse, and I take effect as an indicator of genius, although no, it is not entirely accurate, it is all I have to go on. Why aren't there any native americans, or spaniards influencing the world, you may think the Italians have bad taste in cars, fashion, but it is Italian and German and Japanese industry that is influencing this world, not Spanish, and not nigger, or native american, australian aborigenee, that is influencing this world.

Also, I don't need critics to pass judgement, I judge for myself. However, I have not listened to any Spanish composers, only Germans, Austrians and Italians, so maybe the Spanish have composers that are just as good or better, and it is just that most people have poor taste, but I doubt it.


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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:33 pm

Sometimes I listen to other Italian or German composers, besides the popular ones, and there music sucks, Beethoven and Vivaldi and Tchaikovsky were and are popular for a reason, it wasn't just happenstance, Spain didn't produce much in the way of music, and inventions, and literature, and philosophy, because they suck.
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:39 pm

For me genius is something much more basic. Achievement does not figure into it, in my mind.
Achievement is based on how other recognize and appreciate your genius or your creativity, because your can be an idiot who creates crap and still be considered a "genius" by those who appreciate your creations or who cannot even attain their simplicity.

For me genius goes back to time, and activity; time being a measurement of activity.
A genius is someone who can perceive more detail, either because he has more sensit8ve senses, or because he has a more sensitive mind, one that can pick-up on subtle patterns.
But more than this genius is also the one who can incorporate said information, patterns or sensual stimuli, into harmonious, cohesive mental models. In other words he can construct abstractions which correspond to or reflect, or mirror, the real world.

This is why genius has been connected to memory and timelessness.
Memory is essential because in the recognition of patterns the mind must hold onto stimuli for long periods of time, before he can connect them or recognize them again within something more immediate.
Timeless because no matter how entropy increases these mental models, abstractions, are informed by more than the immediate, they go further back to build their structures and so when projected they hold true for longer periods of time.

This brings us to the third part of genius which is imagination. To project accurately is to have a mind that can take the given activities and extrapolate future possibilities, positioning the aforementioned mental models within them and then imagining what the (inter)activity would look like.

This brings me to the fourth aspect of genius which is courage, for without it all mental models (abstractions), and all assessments derived from projection will be warped by personal desire, personal hope and fear and always slanted to the mind's favor.
In fact I wrote a little thing on the subject many years ago, trying to explain to myself what creates good judgment after I realized that there were many intelligent people I knew who made the stupidest mistakes.
I could not understand why so I thought about it.
This is what I came up with:

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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:03 pm

I agree with everything Satyr said.

Genius is not popularity, nonetheless it is all I have to go on, as I am not that well read, I have only read, I'm only familiar with German, Italian, English and French, Greek works of literature, and philosphy, and music, and I'm not that familiar with poetry at all. It is a fair criticism of my criteria for determining whether Spanish people are dumber on average, or they produce less geniuses. Maybe there are some Spanish scientists who build physical models of the universe that described it more accurately than Newton, Einstein, Kepler, more coherent, more profound and all encompassing, we may never know, personally I am not well researched enough to say. Still though, I'm sticking with popularity, popularity doesn't mean much, popularity with the critics, the intellectuals, as they could have an agenda, or they could be wrong about some things, nonetheless it is all I have to go on, that and IQ. Maybe Africans are far smarter then whites, although this would contradict IQ, maybe chimpanzees are far smarter than whites, but they didn't build grand towers and boats and inventions because they were so smart, they could see the full implications of such behaviour, that it would ultimately lead to environmental catastrophe and devastations and misery.

I would say it is reasons goal to reflect phenomena accurately, to make connections between phenomena, for phenomena, at any one time and place, is limited, our eyes give us a limited sense of what is out there, we need hindsight to tell us about an apples origns, memery tells us where an object came from, foresight tells us where is is likely going. My eyes can't tell me the causual relations ship between a lighter and a frame, that lighter equals flame, or can equal flame, only my intelligence can do this. My intelligence links a lighter with other bits and peices of phenomena in the right order and sequences. If I am looking and not touching a lighter, I cannot feel its relative hardness, yet I know it is relatively hard to me, and relatively light, just by looking at it, and that it is not hollow, intelligence is our capacity to remember phenomena, and link phenomena with other phenomena, find the hidden connections.

Some able to do this more accurately than others. Those who can make a lot of extraodinary, quality connections, far faster than the average man, we call geniuses. And conversely those who make few connections, relatively slowly, and small, obvious ones, we can stunted, stupid or retarded.

There are many kinds of connections, relatinos between phenomena. One is causal, lighter and flame, ball and bounce, the other is substantial, a ball is like an apple, in shape, metal is like rock in firmness. There are quantitive connections, 3 apples are like 3 rocks, in that there is 3 of them. There are pattern connections, temporal and spatial, so rocks may be organized in a triangle shape, or rock appears, then siccors, then paper, over and over against, intelligence is understanding remembering relations between objects, and also subjects.

Now, we have aesthetic senses, that tell us whether something is crude, or vulgar, or ugly, assymetrical, disproportionate, and displeasing, and it these aesthetic qualities, that men in todays, postmodern society, are reluctant to make these judgements known, because we don't want to offend people, for some reason, we want to avoid conflict and harmony, and this may have to do with living in a multicultural society, filled with many different types of races, and cultures, with different values. We have more senses, and other, more value based senses, right wrong, good evil, but we do not think these phenomena belong to the world, because of are paradigm, so we do no pass these kinds of judgement, openly, we keep them to ourselves, and we do not believe we can meanfully disagree, and that someone could be wrong about the value phenomena they experience, or that the phenomena is purely internal.

Myself, I like passing aesthetic and ethical judgement on people, I have absolutely no problem with this, so long as people do not force their judgements, I do not care, I would not occupy this forum regularly if I was squeamish about judging people by their character and intelligence. I suspect aesthetics and ethics may be part of the external world, and part of the internal world, but at present our paradigm suggests that aesthetic and ethical judgements are only part of the internal world, subjectivism. I am no a subjectivist or a objectivist, stricly, I'm an interactivist, I believe life is always some mix of subject and object, well, some things may be a little more objective than others, perhaps it is degrees, rather than black and white.

This severly limits and handicaps critics and all of us from passing judgement, but I do not fully subscribe to this paradigm, and even if I did, I would pass judgement anyway, because I like to, and I wouldn't give up the opportunity to judge others, so as to live in a more comfortable world, where no one can judge me, and that is what it boils down to, doesn't it, freedom vs security.

You want freedom to judge, or rape, torture, commit murder, and create an environment where all can do those things, than you have to worry about others doing them to you, and I say, go for it, I have nothing to fear, and nothing to lose, judge me motherfuckers, I will tell you to go fuck yourselves, I fear you not, fuck all of you, ha ha.

It seems evolution has selected, for now, people who prefer, in general, or relatively speaking, security over freedom, but that could all change, we could be at the dark ages, back to square one, where all are free do hurt and be hurt. We have this idea that security, and forced equality of various kinds, economic, political, criminal, whatever, is the best way to live, for the collective and/or individuals, but I don't think this is the case, It depends on the circumstances, it is contextual, like all things, I am a relativist, not an absolutist, but absolutism is necessary to convince others that your way is always right for us all, it is stupid, but stupidity can be employed as a deceptive trick.

What is this place, know thyself, but for a people who would choose to be free, or at least think free, and live with the consequences of that freedom, to live in fear of others, but in exchange, you get to cause fear.

This is why I say fuck, the libertarians, cowardly cunts, I restrain myself not, I look upon the whole world as my kingdom, I am free to hurt all of you, as you are me, there is no institution or protections, no God keeping score, all are free, but some are decievers, and they are the worst scum,, they come barring gifts of equality, they want you to accept security and throw away your right to commit hard, to judge, to scrutinize and to devour flesh, but they retain the righ to harm you, and this, is the fundamental nature of the Jew, and for that I pass judgment on this most cowardly of hypocrites, who is a communist, egalitarian security lover on the outside, but who is a zionist, racist, theif, savage tribal scum on the inside, this is weapon, the Romans had strength and intelligence, the Jews have cunning.

On the outside he is communist christian, on the inside he is a zionist, fascist jew.

What is the Christian but the epitome of weakness, do not judge, do not murder, do not harm, do not be greedy, and what is this but cowardly weakness. Sometimes what comes around goes around, sometimes it does not. It depends, it really depends.

uhhh, sorry about that, kind o' got carried away there.
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:44 pm

Eyes, No, I am not confusing anything. I was pointing out to the quality of the term innovator or genius today when you have political factors of en-famousing those as geniuses and innovators who serve the secular humanist agenda mostly, while uncomfortable theories that could heighten real progress of man, like any scientific theories based on pure racialism would prob. never be acknowledged or funded in the first place. For example, Picasso who is hailed for his innovation in painting himself says!,

"The time to look to Art for comfort and exaltation is past, but the over-refined, the rich and the busybodies trying to extract conclusive wisdom out of everything always hope to find something new, unique and unusual. Since the days of cubism and later I have endeavoured to satisfy these lovers and critics with those freakish ideas passing through my head and the less they understood the more they marvelled
at me. While I amused myself with this sort of game I became famous and rich and that very quickly too. But when I am alone with myself I have no courage to consider myself an artist in the great and worthy sense. I am just a public joker who gained an insight into his days and has succeeded in exploiting the stupidity, vanity and avidity of his contemporaries. Of course my confession is bitter and painful but at least it has the advantage of being an honest one."

Or consider how Celine, loved for his unique rage and style of black satire, first nominated for a national award by Mitterrand had to be slashed after pressure from jewish groups for his direct antisemitic prose. His books are banned and it is hoped they would remain buried... when the jewish lobby couldn't get him to recant or prosecute him in court, then they slandered him as a humourist and discredited such a realist; "Dieu est en réparation"... as mad and insane, a joker.

Reg. Einstein, - it was the "erroneous" trials of Heisenberg, etc., in fact from Galileo, who were far more "valuable" to point the way. Otto Han and Fritz Strassman had already split it in 1938 in a diff. set-up. Wiki details the list of scientists involved prior to Einstein: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

My point is, with Einstein, science triumphed at the expense of 'scientific methods'...
See: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Intelligence equally belongs to that 'daring' capacity and a self-severe spirit and discipline, to painstakingly test and expose errors and failures, paving the way for innovations, while Schlafly’s complaint is, the hype of relativity as the greatest scientific progress, almost being taken for granted like some gospel axiom, has actually retarded scientific progress.

The intelligence of Einstein/Marx/Freud is in itself a diff. topic. I'm not asking here, what constitutes intelligence but the the politicization of what constitutes intelligence - how it is determined, often in the name of progress and secular agendas, thus retarding real progress and the 'vigour' of intelligence, which involves an aesthetic quotient and an emotional quotient and not merely a rational/logical coherency, and in such a process how real innovators may remain in the dark. Today, science is an Industry, and it is funded, and any unbiased innovator hailed as such would prob. have to be 'despite' such a political factoring, minimal and harmless; slipping through their filters...
And I actually have to agree with what you say, because it would take a comparison with the Blacks, for the Jews to be called "intelligent" in the popular way it is led to be understood... I regard Aryans to be of a diff., a more "sound intelligence" than Jews.

Spengler described the old Spanish spirit as one of explorative restlessness. Perhaps the rhythm of their intelligence has never been scientifically dominant if you simply go by the Nobel's recognition of them - topping in literature 6/8 cases.
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And if you don't go by Nobel, then you have,
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So, I think, a more appropriate way of framing the question atleast, would be to ask, if this hypo-scientific bent is, or is not, their natural dominant rhythm? I cannot assess this.

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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:05 am

Considering modern art:
Pollock and Warhol represent, for me, the total decay of western art.

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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:07 am

Only if art to you is no more than expressing a sense of beauty.
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:14 am

I like Pollock but not too much. Expressionism for the win!
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:16 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Only if art to you is no more than expressing a sense of beauty.
Art for me is expressing reality but not in a way where even a monkey can splatter paint on a canvas or take a dump and smear the shit around asking the audience to see the "inner meanings" in the piece.

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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:39 pm

For me modern art is essentially meaningless. You're given this irrationality, this emptiness and are expected to fill that void with your own meaning. This is especially true with Pollock.

Warhol is different because he is more concerned with pop-culture reference and the superficiality of stylistic trends. There was also an intense personality cult around him which helped to promote him even more.

But then there is the other side of it like Marcel Duchamp who while not creating much of real value did manage to do some interesting things in the midst of all the destruction:

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^^ Nude descending a staircase. Every slide of the sequence of movement that the figure takes, superimposed over eachother.

But you've got to contrast that with shit like Robert Rauschenburg or Jasper Johns who were just mass-producing crap for the Art market and auctioning the products off for millions. Pure capitalism in response to the demand for trendy pieces.
And then there's the affirmative action stuff in the form of Jean Michel Basquiat or Paula Rego.

It was the expression of the times, mostly occurring from the sixties onwards. An expression of the spirit of the post-war paradigm and a sign of things to come.
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:51 pm

Art is suppose to impart one's will upon you. The artist's essence must be clear and delivered with an emotional content.

Most of the shit that is sold as art, these days, to idiots who simply wish to appear cultured when they are dullards with too much money, relies on the audience to project upon it his/her own will and then assume that what you project the artists intended all along.
The artist for me must come through the art piece. He has to be obvious.

Like I said, some moron pattering paint dots on a canvas, with the meticulous care of a surgeon, and then letting the masses project upon the chaotic crap their own confused thoughts is not for me art.

If an elemphant can sell a painting and nobody can tell it was not created by a human then we're in trouble.
Noise is not music.
A pile of shit is not a sculpture.

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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:14 pm

Yes, that's called being "representational" by my teachers. Which I presume is why they ask me so frequently to make non-representational pieces as practice in producing simple shapes and forms, without representational meaning; objects that have a distinctive shape of their own but do not refer to anything as a symbol.

I agree, a piece of art should be representational of something. Otherwise it's worthless. Art is a language and it's purpose is to convey meaning.

Modern Art is to real art what a dog barking is to poetry.
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:03 am

Phoneutria is very zen in her absent minded stupidity.
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:28 am

Art does have to represent something, however, I'll add this, art can also represent our inner, subjective states, our thoughts, feelings, hopes, dreams, fears, our idealization of reality, and our imagination, in addition to reality itself. I think art should explore consciousness itself, as well as, the world. This is why for me, fantasy art, religious, science fiction art, surealism and symbolism ar still art, where as what Warhol was doing, rereprepresenting low art, or what Picasso and Pollock were doing, throwing up on the canvas, is not. If art merely depicts what is, then that would be rather boring and uncreative, wouldn't it, especially since cameras can do a better job. However, there is a tangible, intelligible, articulate, fantasic way to explore internal states and ideas, or someone elses, and internal states and ideas worth exloring, and then there's the rest. Art should speak to you, it should convey something, a thought, a desire, an object. Art that conveys nothing, isn't art, it's crap.
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:53 am

But what does this say about a person who likes crap, are they stupid, retarded, masochistic? Maybe they're mentally lazy, they don't want art that demands too much from them, or maybe they don't like good art, because it reminds them of just how stupid, vulgar and ugly they are, internally and externally? Or perhaps it has to do with liberty, and individualism, they don't want the artist to narrowly impose his vission on them, they want to interpret it in form themselves, bend it to there will, and there imagination, and in this way, the viewer becomes just as much of artist as the painter or the sculptor. In a way, the mind has to be more active, in order to make something out of post modern art. It could also be a product of cynicism and skepticism, the notion that many of our attempts to find meaning in this world of dynamic decay, and change, are ultimately futile, or at least, more futile then we think.
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:54 am

Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out what attracts some people to this art, I suppose it's all of the aforementioned reasons, and more.
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:49 am

What about music then, is it not audible art, yet, it doesn't depict reality, a piano sounds nothing like nature, so what is music about then, if it is not a copy or representation of something in the world? Music is the language of emotion and mathematics, it attempts to convey emotional and mathematical meaning, and conjure, evoke emotion. When music is played slowly, gently, softly, it makes one feel relaxed, calm, when it is abrupt, harsh, lound and flighty, it has the reverse effect, it makes us fearful, shocked, surprised, nervous. The sounds effect us as if by magic, each external noise has a specific, corresponding emotional effect e.g. hard playing is angry, willfull and passionate playing, It is though our hearts have been designed in such a way, as to reflect the audible environment that surrounds us. Also of note, music is mathematical, symmetrical, there are patterns, temporal patterns to the notes being played. The sounds themselves cause emotion, and the order they're played in.


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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:54 am

So we see art can be more than descriptive, it can be external sounds organised and played, in such a way as to intentionally provoke a feeling or even a thought, and it can also be prescriptive, it can prescribe, it can predict how reality could be, or should be, it can idealise.
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:07 am

You can't overlook the commercial aspect of modern art, though.

Think of fashion. What is avant-garde and cutting edge is seen as attractive for the simple reason of being strange and different. Especially to weary palates. So, you've then got a high demand for it among the rich, in particular the nouveau rich of the post-war West who will pay millions to hang a piece of crap on the walls of their new mansion.

You should watch a documentary of Rauschenburg or Johns in their "studios", really production line churning out this stuff for the market. It is the artistic expression of capitalism. If you've got some dumbfuck who'll pay up because you exhibited in a trendy gallery in New York, so he can brag to his retarded friends about the deconstructive symbolism of the dog turd on his table ... well you're going to take advantage of that. Supply and demand.

What is objectionable is that some retards buy into the sales pitch and start treating it seriously. At which point it becomes ridiculous.

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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:05 pm

Satyr wrote:
For me genius is something much more basic. Achievement does not figure into it, in my mind.
For me genius goes back to time, and activity; time being a measurement of activity.
A genius is someone who can perceive more detail, either because he has more sensit8ve senses, or because he has a more sensitive mind, one that can pick-up on subtle patterns.
But more than this genius is also the one who can incorporate said information, patterns or sensual stimuli, into harmonious, cohesive mental models. In other words he can construct abstractions which correspond to or reflect, or mirror, the real world.
This is why genius has been connected to memory and timelessness.
This brings us to the third part of genius which is imagination.
This brings me to the fourth aspect of genius which is courage, This is what I came up with:
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That was good.

Intelligence basically is the capacity of the mind to respond to external stimuli; it appropriates every information and impression, the unfamiliar and the new into old schemes, into known categories. The underlying drive is to homogeneize or equate things; while Memory is the drive to preserve organization, classification, separation, differentiation into distinct information in places or pockets of storage.
The Genius then can be described as one in whom this battle bet. the drive to equalize and drive to segregate, wages the longest and untiringly, and in whom, it has also already waged the longest; i.e. someone already with a strong sense of Memory.

Genius is a kind of courage and daring to stand there as this battle, irrespective of how things shape, leaning neither here nor there. In subjecting itself to extremes (because of this continuous war), it lives more abundantly, wholesomely, more in-spired [spiritus: soul, courage, vigour, breath]. It spans huge ranges. And so the Genius not only sees more and hears more, but it sees and hears more selectively than the others; it is an Active-selective intelligence, having the courage to stop, and having the courage to create its own need and distress without the need to turn to external stimuli only. It retains only what is necessary or can make necessary, and maintains a severity to say No and filters out the rest - in effect, it is a de-noising. This can be called Wisdom. It inflicts its cruel dispassion on things no matter how "beautiful" they appear or what "beautiful feelings" they may arouse. Wisdom is what keeps the war from loosing tension or polarization.
And because the Genius is one in whom this war has already waged the longest,, by the time his senses are absorbing more data, his hands are already finishing hitting that precise piano key or that precise stroke to a painting or that thought in a book, which gives the effect of some magic or natural harmony, a sense of effortlessness and free flow. War has become so ingrained like first instinct, and so it moves with unhesitant cold certainty, never doubting itself, the result appears like a spontaneous piece of work, "natural ability" or "innate talent".

"Etymologically genius has the same derivation as nature, from the Indo-European root *gen-, "produce." It is the indwelling nature of an object or class of objects or events that act with a perceived or hypothesized unity. ...As a natural outcome of these beliefs, the pleasantness of a place, the strength of an oath, an ability of a person, were regarded as intrinsic to the object, and yet were all attributable to genius; hence all of the modern meanings of the word. ...The genius appears explicitly in Roman literature relatively late as early as Plautus, where one character in the play, Captivi, jests that the father of another is so avaricious that he uses cheap Samian ware in sacrifices to his own genius, so as not to tempt the genius to steal it.[10] In this passage, the genius is not identical to the person, as to propitiate oneself would be absurd, and yet the genius also has the avarice of the person; that is, the same character, the implication being, like person, like genius. ...a person could be the same as and different from his genius. They were not distinct..."
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Consider how Evola called the genius a demonic soul or "double" because the intensity of the primordial power of a race/stock/a past was so much, it has been waged so long, it bursts out into the individual, and the individual is able to *gens- or produce more than the normal person. Similarly the ongoing war in this genius reaches such an intensity, it now errupts out of him, so to speak, and "touches" everyone and everything around itself. We feel in-spired, in-vigour-ated. So one understands how this demands courage, to let your strength dis-pose you off... When the war-regulating wisdom is bypassed, the genius then becomes Mad, "out of one's mind" lit..

If I were to ask myself as objectively as possible, is there any modern art or any jewish art or philosophy or music that I would remember or want to remember in the last moments of my life, that would fill me with gratitude for life, that i'd love to take with me, I'd have to say no, so far. No popularity by Nobel can determine or influence this. And I think that's what genius should be. Even if you listen to it just once, it should stay with you for life.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:15 pm

Satyr wrote:
phoneutria wrote:
Only if art to you is no more than expressing a sense of beauty.
Art for me is expressing reality but not in a way where even a monkey can splatter paint on a canvas or take a dump and smear the shit around asking the audience to see the "inner meanings" in the piece.

Yes.

A nice critique:
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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:49 pm

Good to see I'm not the only one.

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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:31 pm

I agree on the importance of technique in art.
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:15 pm

The Suprematists whose 'art' consisted of a circle and a square... what technique and movement! A movement of doing away with art itself...

"Suprematism has advanced the ultimate tip of the visual pyramid of perspective into infinity.... We see that Suprematism has swept away from the plane the illusions of two-dimensional planimetric space, the illusions of three-dimensional perspective space, and has created the ultimate illusion of irrational space, with its infinite extensibility into the background and foreground."
-El Lissitzky

"I say to all: reject love, reject aestheticism, reject the trunks of wisdom, for in the new culture your wisdom is laughable and insignificant. I have untied the knot of wisdom and set free the consciousness of colour! Remove from yourselves quickly the hardened skin of centuries, so that you can catch up with us more easily. I have overcome the impossible and formed gulfs with my breathing. You are in the nets of the horizon, like fish! We, the Suprematists, throw open the way to you. Hurry! For tomorrow you will not recognize us."
-Kazimir Malevich

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:21 pm

"In the general calamities of mankind the death of an individual, however exalted, the ruin of an edifice, however famous, are passed over with careless inattention. Yet we cannot forget that the temple of Diana at Ephesus, after having risen with increasing splendour from seven repeated misfortunes, was finally burnt by the Goths in their third naval invasion. The arts of Greece, and the wealth of Asia, had conspired to erect that sacred and magnificent sculpture. It was supported by an hundred and twenty-seven marble columns of the Ionic order. They were the gifts of devout monarchs, and each was sixty feet high. The altar was adorned with the masterly sculptures of Praxiteles, who had, perhaps, selected from the favourite legends of the place of birth of the divine children of Latona, the concealment of Apollo after the slaughter of Cyclops, and the clemency of Bacchus to the vanquished Amazons. Yet the length of the temple of Ephesus was only four hundred and twenty-five feet, about two-thirds of the measure of the church of St. Peter’s at Rome. In the other dimensions it was still more inferior to that sublime production of modern architecture. The spreading arms of a Christian cross require a much greater breadth than the oblong temples of the Pagans; and the boldest artists of antiquity would have been startled at the proposal of raising in the air a dome the size and proportions of the Pantheon. The temple of Diana was, however, admired as one of the wonders of the world. Successive empires, the Persian, the Macedonian, and the Roman, had revered its sanctity and enriched its splendour. But the rude savages of the Baltic [the Goths] were destitute of a taste for the elegant arts, and they despised the ideal terrors of a foreign superstition." [Gibbons]

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:57 am

Quote :
"This frisson is achieved fully in one of Hirst's signature pieces, Away from the Flock (1994). A lamb is suspended in formaldehyde inside a glass box. The piece still shocks despite having become a sort of visual cliché. The shock has nothing to do with the use of such “objects” as art pieces; it comes from the very presence of death itself, which is to say the absence of life. Even more so than Nitsch's abreactive Aktions, involving the slaughter of hundreds of animals and the vivid smearing of their blood and entrails over human bodies, Hirst's frozen formaldehyde animals bring us face to face with death. In fact, the very stillness and immobility of the floating animals suggests a ghost-like liminal state entirely absent from Nitsch's messy abattoirs. These animals are still present to us in life but only as objects; they are now forever absent to themselves. There is no one better than Hirst in presenting the uncomfortable fact of death as an existential dilemma."

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:22 pm

Nihilistic Exhibitionism? Therapy?


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Quote :
Apple destroyed products by Michael Tompert and Paul Fairchild.

a series of smashed, mangled, shot up and melted apple products are the subject of  a recent photography project by a san francisco-area graphic designer who said he’s  trying to make people think about their relationship with these universally beloved gadgets.

michael tompert said he had spent the last several months purchasing the newest in apple consumer technology and then creatively destroying the pricey toys. the results, which  he photographed, briefly went on display at a gallery exhibition that ran over the weekend  at the small live worms gallery in san francisco.

tompert said the idea for the project came to him after he gave each of his two sons  an ipod touch for christmas. he said the two boys fought over one of the devices, which had a certain game on it. fed up with the quarrel, tompert said he grabbed one of the ipods and smashed it on the ground.

‘they were kind of stunned – the screen was broken and this liquid poured out of it. I got my camera to shoot it,’ tompert said. ‘my wife told me that i should do something with it.’

in all, tompert created 12 images of destroyed apple products, working with his friend paul fairchild, a photographer. ‘they had to be a brand-new product,’ tompert said.  ‘it’s not about destroying old products. it’s about our relationship with the new.’

his methods of destruction varied by gadget. to destroy an iphone 3g device, he used a  heckler & koch handgun to blow a hole through it. to obliterate a set of ipod nanos,  he placed the devices on a train track so that a locomotive would run over them. (DesignBoom)
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I am going to smash my antique calculator and open a gallery...

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:25 pm

If this is art then I've got a masterpiece floating in my toilet.

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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:02 am

You should see the one which is wall to wall photos of anal sphincters.

Modern Art is a catalogue of cultural collapse.

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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:25 am

Even assuming the intentions of the 'artist' above was worthy - the exhibition of modern nihilism related to technology being a serious theme for art, its how he represented it. A more artistic and daring approach would have been to capture the "reactions of the people" on seeing their favourite technologies - iphones, etc. all that they cannot do without today, broken. Nihilism is in one's relation to the world. Serious art should have captured and represented that relation. Not literally exhibit broken phones as pieces of art.
The above is crap!

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Sat May 31, 2014 6:11 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Quote :
"This frisson is achieved fully in one of Hirst's signature pieces, Away from the Flock (1994).  A lamb is suspended in formaldehyde inside a glass box.  The piece still shocks despite having become a sort of visual cliché.  The shock has nothing to do with the use of such “objects” as art pieces; it comes from the very presence of death itself, which is to say the absence of life.  Even more so than Nitsch's abreactive Aktions, involving the slaughter of hundreds of animals and the vivid smearing of their blood and entrails over human bodies, Hirst's frozen formaldehyde animals bring us face to face with death.  In fact, the very stillness and immobility of the floating animals suggests a ghost-like liminal state entirely absent from Nitsch's messy abattoirs.  These animals are still present to us in life but only as objects; they are now forever absent to themselves.  There is no one better than Hirst in presenting the uncomfortable fact of death as an existential dilemma."

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Sat May 31, 2014 9:11 pm

Lil narrow mindedness here satyr dear.
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:25 am

Of course Phoney has something to say: she's some Brazilian mongrel who grasps with dear life onto any hope that she might have some Portuguese heredity somewhere in there.
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:36 am

lol did you bump this thread just to say you think I wish I was Portuguese?
You mustn't be aware of the Portuguese's joke status in Brazil.
http://www.piadasnet.com/piadas-de-portugues.htm
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PostSubject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:44 am

I'm relatively new to this forum: I've hardly used the time and energy to read through its contents. If you don't want want what you bark out of your nigger mouth to be attended to thereafter, then muzzle up and direct your hypertension and convulsions into that which is primal, natural, to you, namely, shaking and posturing your dried up cunt, fat ass and fake tittties around. I'm sure you'll land some noble attention in no time.
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