Spaniards and Portuguese

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no problem

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eyesinthedark wrote:: Enough of this mundane babble.

So, we're all in agreement spain's/port's are either dumber or intellectually lazier than the average Frenchman, or German?

Oh, sounds like you're on a mission.
I'm dyingg to see where this is going.

BTW, absolutely not is your answer.

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The differences between individuals/races comes down solely to physical nature, as if you take that away nothing is left.

Among those races that have achieved less we find either a psycho-physical immaturity or a regressive, primitive animality.

It is the middle race that stands apart, differing from the others in the distance and quality of its evolution, giving it the ability to judge the others, but not be judged by them.

(When the others do judge it is criticism and an attempt to restrain the superior race, as in the course of nature the untermenschen are inevitably driven to extinction).

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Satyr wrote:

phoneutria wrote:: Oh no, satyr, you weren't brief. You were empty
Over a hundred words of absolutely nothing.

I give you what you can understand.

phoneutria wrote:: Only you would have taken that to be a weapon.
It's a term of endearment! You know how husbands often refer to their wives as "the old lady"?
I could just as easily have used "dear", or "sweetcakes" or whatever you please.

I know, it was innocent.

phoneutria wrote:: But now that you have thrown a fit over it, I can't help but think... does it really not matter?
Your offense is a defense, and a defense exists to hide a vulnerability.
Why are you so age conscious, old man?
We all prize our greys over here, I'm sure.

See what I mean?

Keep digging, old hag.

phoneutria wrote:: Don't concern yourself with my relationship, dear. We can't all be as unhappy as you.

No, some of us can lie better.

phoneutria wrote:: hahahaha

This usually follows.
If you add a few more "ha's" or make them bigger it might be more convincing.

phoneutria wrote:: I haven't heard a "shut up, you're stupid" in a long time. Have come down to shutupSHUTUP already, old man?

Little wench is thinking she found a "soft spot"...now she'll milk it for all its worth, convinced that she's doing damage.

Oh and SHUT THE FUCK-UP you stupid BITCH!!!
See?

phoneutria wrote:: If it bothers you so, why don't you use that handy little button you have, and kick me out of here. Come on, I know you've thought about it.
Spare yourself the embarrassment of continuing to produce these asinine assumptions about me.

I think you being bothersome is like a baby crying for attention. When it gets it, it is negative, but it is attention nonetheless.

phoneutria wrote:: But I''ll grant you the effort. You even read my chats. We'll have a full asinine dossie in no time.

It was boring shit....funny though.
Are you going to save the boy? Will you "whip" him into shape?

phoneutria wrote:: Nice try, old man. I actually laughed at this one. Thanks.

See?

phoneutria wrote:: Could be.
But instead here we are, on a subject that you brought up, in which you find yourself shuffling around to plug the huge gap I just put in your argument.

Did you?
Can you re-post it, I missed in in all the babbling.

I think the only gap you plug is in between your legs, dear....but that doesn't last for long.

phoneutria wrote:: Oh, I think you need to read about this brilliant civilization and then get back to me.
I will not lecture you on ancient history, dear. I know you are fully capable of googling this one.

No, let's assume they were niggers, like you...and go off feeling good about the world.

phoneutria wrote:: Let's get that thing about Ethiopia out of the way first, shall we? Go read.

I think Ethiopia was a fabulous civilization. We are living under the lights of its eternal flame.
But then again what do you expect from a nigger who thinks inventing peanut-butter is the same as inventing the internal combustion engine?

phoneutria wrote:: Unfortunately, I remain the authority on what makes me what I am. And I'll have to disagree.

Of course you do because you know yourself so well...like a bitch (the canine type) knows herself better than a human can.
Like how being a nigger is twisted into a term of endearment in your mind.

phoneutria wrote:: Hahahahaha no. I am not of your kind.

The almighty smarter-than-thou kind.

There's that nervousness with that accompanying declaration.
This time a few more "ha's" were placed there...you took the time to type them out.

But you didn't call me "old man", putting salt on that wound you found.
Tell me more about my fear of growing old.

phoneutria wrote:: The kind that finds at early age to be above average intelligence, and grows up full of promises and expectations. Only to watch time slip away, and all those promises of greatness fog up in the distance.
And then comes the drudgery of life. Waking up and going to a shitty job where everyone gets to shout orders at you even though they are obviously your inferiors.
All that spite growing in you, year after year.
All those things that you dreamed of, and never accomplished. You don't need them, you tell yourself.
You go over your mantra... my intellectual superiority puts be above... I don't need to be seen as great as long as I know I am great...
Over and over again.
You dig through books and articles in search for knowledge. Anything that will further proof your superiority. Not for love of knowledge but because it feeds your vanity.
You create a shrine for yourself and invite over some of your weaklings to fawn at your mighty intellect and ponder on your complicated psyche.
Despise the world of idiots, those with authority over you. Despise the lameness of your non-challenging job. Despise the women who thought you were weak, who attempted to emasculate you. In the world of ideas, you are king. You are the great vain king of jack shit.

Very nice exposee....it seems like "job" is a common theme here. That and that passage of time.
Typical for a female living in this age.

I love the exhibition of feminine spite. I drink in its anger and hatred.

phoneutria wrote:: I am not of your kind, no.

Are you "happy" in your "job" nigger?
Does it fulfill you, and give you an identity?
How old are you? Tick-tock....tick-tock...

phoneutria wrote:: All my pictures are public. I never took any pictures down.

It's the only thing that gets you noticed, dear.

phoneutria wrote:: I am not in the business of selling sex, but if I ever get into it you'll be the first to know.

Oh my dear, what a contradiction.
Your pics were oozing with sex...but you "know yourself" so who am I to contradict you?
You just keep being what you are.

phoneutria wrote:: One that I wish was more into wasting his time with bullshit. Then I could invite him here and you'd see what a man is.

Indeed, but I think you've always made the "right" decision, babycakes.
I think he must be a genius...for you to have him. On your level, at least.

Please continue to contradict my positions about females by being such a perfect example of a modern one.
Maybe my penis is small.

Ta, Ta,

Let us not waste ourselves on this unproductive bullshit.

I urge you again to read about ethiopia. And egypt. you have an advantage over me, you can reed greek. Read the greek historian documented opinion on the subject.

Guest

Quote :: You think that the berbers were less culturally productive than the "europeans"?

Berbers aren't Egyptians, so yes. As for Egyptians/North Africans as a whole, I suppose it's a little subjective, but I think we've achieved far more than they have. They certainly haven't contributed much in the last 2000-3000 years. I think they're more intelligent and civilized than Negros but, not quite as evolved as Whites.

Quote :: I didn't bring it up to justify or excuse anything. You started off with proposal that the iberic people are different from the rest of europe. Thus, it only makes sense that you should explore the differences. The berber occupation of europe was exclusively restricted to the iberic peninsula. If you are interested on the subject, you should look into it. Another brief observation, we're talking about the berber occupation, the plague, the renaissance, the exploration of the sea/conquest of new territories, etc without even mentioning the period in which they occurred. It's kind of important.

Important how, specifically?

Quote :: What do you mean when you say that they had the opportunity? That being the same as other europeans and having the same means, they should have contributed as much?

Not that they should have.
Since their circumstances were and are so similar to Western Europe, why didn't and don't they accomplish, more?
I don't think they're dumber than other Europeans, from what I remember their IQs are even a little higher than Brits.
Perhaps they're not as creative, imaginative of a people?
More than anything, I think they have a more complacent, conservative attitude. This is in part due to their culture and in part due to their genetics. They don't desire to be at the forefront and in the lime light the way, say, Italians do. Italians have something to prove, they want to be the leaders, the pioneers, they want to leave a mark on the world. This ambition, this passion, this.. arrogance, call it what you will, I don't think the Portuguese and the Spanish have it.
Does this mean I think less of them? No, not necessarily, I'm just making an observation, I'm trying to find alternative explanations to the standard environmental explanation, which is why I selected Portugal and Spain, for they had all the resources and opportunities the rest of Western Europe had, so it must be due to lack of will or ability, that they did not seize those resources and opportunities.
The Spanish seem happy to occupy the background in European cultural and political affairs. they're a simpler, quieter.. duller people than the French or the Brits.. that's my take. You can accept that if you want, I don't really care, but if you don't, I would like to hear your argument.

Quote :: Have you considered the possibility that their focus on conquest might have been what stopped them from being as productive in other endeavors?

It sounds to me like you don't have the whole picture yet.

The Brits especially, but also the French, the Dutch and the Swedes were also focused on conquest. I'm not sure, but I think the achievements of the Dutch surpassed those of the Portuguese. This isn't merely about pre-20th century either. What have they done for us lately? Let's face it, they're not on the world stage the way the other Europeans are. There's something different about their character, their spirit, something more, Asiatic, or North African.. which is fine.

Subject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:14 pm

phoneutria wrote:: Let us not waste ourselves on this unproductive bullshit.

I urge you again to read about ethiopia. And egypt. you have an advantage over me, you can reed greek. Read the greek historian documented opinion on the subject.

Blunderpuss, do you understand anything of history?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Follow the visual aid...

Now notice the timeline.
From where did humans settle into the Nile Delta?
Here, allow me to help you:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

While the sub-Saharan Negroes were still rubbing sticks together it was from Asian that the people who founded the Egyptian Civilization came from.
There they mixed with the indigenous Negroes who were still mastering the craft of pissing upright.

These locals were probably Negroes that floated down the Nile.
From there some influence downriver must have occurred...but nothing to brag about.

Tell us what grand inventions and thoughts came out of Ethiopia.

Liberal nitwits have been using Egypt as an excuse for decades because to the question "why didn't the Negroes ever produce a civilization comparable to Babylon or China or the Greeks?" they have nothing to show except some primitive sculpting and mud huts.

The map clearly shows that the Egyptian Civilization began after, AFTER, the populations came out of Africa, evolved for thousands upon thousands of years and then reentered Africa from the north.

Here's another thing, baby-cakes, the term "Africa" is a human one...a European one. It designates a geographic area....when I speak of Africans, Negroes, I do not mean everyone that lives within the human geographical construct of "Africa" but those restricted to the sub-Saharan areas where Negroes came to be and never grew out of, until the white man came to take them as slaves...something they were doing to each other for centuries.

One more thing to think of, as you imagine me angrily sweeping floors, necessity is the mother of invention.
The alligator never evolved from a certain point onward because it did not have to. It found a niche, was successful there, and there it stayed.
This is called stagnation...I also call it retardation when this also results in a reversal such as when a mind is sheltered and never has to fend for itself or think for itself.

I've said this about a thousand times, but here you are, another moron asking for it.

Retard, the Negroes were dominated because they never had to evolve beyond a certain point. They were in the primordial lands of humanity; they were comfortable there.
They didn't have to think too much, they never faces extinction as the Caucasians did during the Ice age, they never had to struggle to survive in areas unwelcoming to the human species.
They stagnated, only advancing enough to become even more comfortable or to compete with each other within their environment.

The oceans were encompassing them, and in the north the vastness of the Sahara kept them genetically isolated...except for that thin sliver of the Nile.

The Caucasians, on the other hand, experienced a kind of genetic renaissance...a genetic one...never-mind the alter one which actually produced the Renaissance.
They had to think to survive, those that innovated methods of coping with the harsh conditions of the north lived and propagated the others died.

Stupid, race is real, it is an actual fact....that today race-mixing is blurring the lines is another matter.....something I am writing about in my essay...yes....The Feminization of Mankind.

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Vanitas wrote:: The differences between individuals/races comes down solely to physical nature, as if you take that away nothing is left.

Among those races that have achieved less we find either a psycho-physical immaturity or a regressive, primitive animality.

It is the middle race that stands apart, differing from the others in the distance and quality of its evolution, giving it the ability to judge the others, but not be judged by them.

(When the others do judge it is criticism and an attempt to restrain the superior race, as in the course of nature the untermenschen are inevitably driven to extinction).

you really are fuking stupid. you mean how modern advances are keeping an idiot like you alive?

of course others can judge you as they have the ability to varying degrees just like you lack the ability to correctly due to your stupidity as well as your own blindspots. you keep believing you are immune.

white caucasians are the minority and becoming an increasing minority. of course, genes are never destroyed but can further mutate due to environment as well as passed on through interbreeding. you have to be a flaming idiot to think that it's other races that are being driven to extinction. is this your psycho-physical immaturity?

all societies and culture go through cycles of progress and stagnation. it's natural too.

as for innovation, there was going to come a time when further protection from natural environmental forces would no longer be the defining issue. but that's the whole point and price. innovation makes our life better or easier. then it's just about maintenance until a larger threat looms.

it seems you are so worried about other races even existing or doing alright. is your self-esteem that low that you have a problem existing in the world with others? is your ego that fragile that you need these fantasies that others are going to be driven to extinction? you are fucking disgusting.

clue: life is full of diversity, enjoy it.

Subject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:26 am

Maybe a new definition of "race" is required...one Heidegger, Hitler and many others, including Evola proposed.

Race as spirit...not as biology.
Of course biology still participates in increasing or decreasing the emergence of certain types of individuals.

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cranapple wrote:

Vanitas wrote:: The differences between individuals/races comes down solely to physical nature, as if you take that away nothing is left.

Among those races that have achieved less we find either a psycho-physical immaturity or a regressive, primitive animality.

It is the middle race that stands apart, differing from the others in the distance and quality of its evolution, giving it the ability to judge the others, but not be judged by them.

(When the others do judge it is criticism and an attempt to restrain the superior race, as in the course of nature the untermenschen are inevitably driven to extinction).

you really are fuking stupid. you mean how modern advances are keeping an idiot like you alive?

of course others can judge you as they have the ability to varying degrees just like you lack the ability to correctly due to your stupidity as well as your own blindspots. you keep believing you are immune.

white caucasians are the minority and becoming an increasing minority. of course, genes are never destroyed but can further mutate due to environment as well as passed on through interbreeding. you have to be a flaming idiot to think that it's other races that are being driven to extinction. is this your psycho-physical immaturity?

all societies and culture go through cycles of progress and stagnation. it's natural too.

as for innovation, there was going to come a time when further protection from natural environmental forces would no longer be the defining issue. but that's the whole point and price. innovation makes our life better or easier. then it's just about maintenance until a larger threat looms.

it seems you are so worried about other races even existing or doing alright. is your self-esteem that low that you have a problem existing in the world with others? is your ego that fragile that you need these fantasies that others are going to be driven to extinction? you are fucking disgusting.

clue: life is full of diversity, enjoy it.

You're living in a fantasy, a dream, you stupid bitch. One created by beings far more intlligent and aggressive than you and you are just a puppet. The universe does not care for your understanding of 'diversity', but it drives organisms apart, as it drives galaxies apart, as even time and space are witnesses to your stupidity. Need I show the fossil record of evolution, which makes a laughing stock of your pathetic liberal hopes dear sheep? Diversity as promoted by the simulacrum is double-speak. What is actually promoted is a uniformity, a levelling. This is the white economic elites simply using the working class as a genetic buffer against the untermensch, whilst profiting from the labor of niggers and the like. In its old incarnation it was simply called divide and rule. Those pictures you see of non-whites in Western advertizing, with their straightened hair or lightened skin or widened eyes, living in environments alien to their nature, not intellectually created by them, filled with technology far beyond their ability to produce, they are being slowly erased from history you stupid fuck.

Most are already gone. Africa nothing more than a museum to human history. Its once savage animals the kings of the wild - a mythology still maintained by natural history documentaries - kept as pets in American mansions, as it's hominid population is kept for recreational sex and household chores by some Westerners, their primitive natures filtered and airbrushed out by the marketing men.

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Again the birth rate of whites is only declining due to the action of the simulacrum, women's rights and those of the individual have taken precedence over the family, driving capitalism forward. There is nothing natural about it. Sheer reproductive numbers are no match for intelligence. All it requuires is one disease, one carefully synthesized virus and the herd is gone.

My fantasies you stupid bitch? Didn't nature, in an act of cosmic vandalism, exterminate the dinosaurs? Did I fantasize extinction on a global scale, let alone the micro-extinctions when a hominid lineage vanishes?

And yet eveything in this world gets exactly what it deserves, I make no exceptions for myself, which makes your claims about my supposed immunity retarded. I certainly made no such claims nor do I wish to be excluded, as such exclusion is impossible.

Innovation is just another tool of exploitation you idiot. Only a sheep would think that making one's life easier is improving its quality.

Neither is there such thing as other races 'doing alright', as you put it. Such colloquial verbage should be reserved for small talk or political sound bites. You are only lying for the simulacrum, as the fossil record shows us exactly the direction other races are heading.

The idea of random genetic mutation is nonsense. An organism can only change within the context of it's already existing physical structure, a human cannot be born with an elephant's trunk or a tigers teeth. Change accrue slowly, over millions of years. In hominids intelligence is always selected for again and again, as intelligence can overcome all environmental obstacles and defeat all predators. If you want to look for the elephants trunk or tigers teeth then look no further than the non-European races who still possess such regressive traits, in man they are indicated by the larger, protruding jaw and sloping forehead. The smaller, simian brain.

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cranapple wrote:: you are fucking disgusting.

I am disgusting because I choose to point out nature's indifference, whilst you prefer the comforting arms of secular liberalism, the most complex and sophisticated religion ever created. One that simultaneously does not insult your intelligence against the available evidence whilst preserving the doctrine of equality under God and man's eventual salvation through science and technology.

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Quote :: Maybe a new definition of "race" is required...one Heidegger, Hitler and many others, including Evola proposed.

Race as spirit...not as biology.
Of course biology still participates in increasing or decreasing the emergence of certain types of individuals.

Don't we want to preserve our own, our brothers and sisters, daughters and sons, our family, race, no matter how genetically/memetically recessive and retarded they may be? Even if my brother is more of an idiot than my acquaintence, will I still not want to preserve my brothers life over the life of my acquaintance, is that not more/less consistence with human nature?

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I suppose for man, both is important, blood and merit.

What about your Hellenic tribe?

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Your new conception of race is like the old conception of creed, you want to preserve your philosophical, spiritual (as you use it) kin.

Subject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:22 pm

eyesinthedark wrote:

Quote :: Maybe a new definition of "race" is required...one Heidegger, Hitler and many others, including Evola proposed.

Race as spirit...not as biology.
Of course biology still participates in increasing or decreasing the emergence of certain types of individuals.

Don't we want to preserve our own, our brothers and sisters, daughters and sons, our family, race, no matter how genetically/memetically recessive and retarded they may be? Even if my brother is more of an idiot than my acquaintence, will I still not want to preserve my brothers life over the life of my acquaintance, is that not more/less consistence with human nature?

No....what is ill and weak should be eliminated even if it be my son.

eyesinthedark wrote:: I suppose for man, both is important, blood and merit.

What about your Hellenic tribe?

My Hellenic tribe all but perished centuries ago; Christianity gave it the final crippling blow. Now all that remains are Jews and Turks, speaking an anglicized form of Greek.
What Greeks? The ones who consider Christianity and Hellenism compatible elements of identification?
Fuck them...they are dead and buried, just like the monuments and the temples... underneath churches with crosses and dirt.

But that spark the elders lit still burns in the hearts of some. It burns ironically in the barbarians heart most brightly.
To be Greek is not a racial quality, no more than it is to be a Jew....it is an attitude, a way of Being.

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Quote :: You're living in a fantasy, a dream, you stupid bitch. One created by beings far more intlligent and aggressive than you and you are just a puppet. The universe does not care for your understanding of 'diversity', but it drives organisms apart, as it drives galaxies apart, as even time and space are witnesses to your stupidity. Need I show the fossil record of evolution, which makes a laughing stock of your pathetic liberal hopes dear sheep? Diversity as promoted by the simulacrum is double-speak. What is actually promoted is a uniformity, a levelling. This is the white economic elites simply using the working class as a genetic buffer against the untermensch, whilst profiting from the labor of niggers and the like. In its old incarnation it was simply called divide and rule. Those pictures you see of non-whites in Western advertizing, with their straightened hair or lightened skin or widened eyes, living in environments alien to their nature, not intellectually created by them, filled with technology far beyond their ability to produce, they are being slowly erased from history you stupid fuck.

Most are already gone. Africa nothing more than a museum to human history. Its once savage animals the kings of the wild - a mythology still maintained by natural history documentaries - kept as pets in American mansions, as it's hominid population is kept for recreational sex and household chores by some Westerners, their primitive natures filtered and airbrushed out by the marketing men.

I disagree with this- it seems the elite want to keep the Jewish race pure and muddy the white race with african, asiatic and hispanic immigrants with their superior birth rates.

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Quote :: No....what is ill and weak should be eliminated even if it be my son.

Would you not prefer your son's life over the life of another boy, even if your son was a little dumber than the other boy?

Guest

Quote :: My Hellenic tribe all but perished centuries ago; Christianity gave it the final crippling blow. Now all that remains are Jews and Turks, speaking an anglicized form of Greek.
What Greeks? The ones who consider Christianity and Hellenism compatible elements of identification?
Fuck them...they are dead and buried, just like the monuments and the temples... underneath churches with crosses and dirt.

But that spark the elders lit still burns in the hearts of some. It burns ironically in the barbarians heart most brightly.
To be Greek is not a racial quality, no more than it is to be a Jew....it is an attitude, a way of Being.

What is this Greek attitude you speak of?
Is it the man who focuses on the exoteric, reality, rather than the esoteric, fantasy?
Is it the man who tries to live in accordance with reason, rather than with his passions?
The man who who places the life of his polis above his own life, and the life of his children, or vice versa?
The man who favors democracy and freedom for some (the healthy, the intelligent, those with wealth and power) and slavery for others?
The one who lives a moderate life, neither eating or drinking too much, or too little?
The one who is in touch with nature?
I wish to understand your Hellenic supremacism.

Subject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:00 pm

Do you not read it in Nietzsche?

It's a masculine spirit of no compromises, no surrender no submission to the unknown.
It's one which begins with dominating the drives, the instinct, the feminine qualities within himself.
It is esoteric and ascetic...but not as an end but as a means.

This is an encapsulation:

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Satyr wrote:: Maybe a new definition of "race" is required...one Heidegger, Hitler and many others, including Evola proposed.

Race as spirit...not as biology.
Of course biology still participates in increasing or decreasing the emergence of certain types of individuals.

Spirit is only a word describing the inside of the container, its contours and modulations, the myriad, interwoven, complex networks. It's the byproduct of material reality, the negative space in between the matter, an echo of the physical world. This is why concepts such as spirit and mind are so hard to define. They are not 'things' in themselves but ghostly impressions resulting from the presence of matter. You're not the electical signals passing through your synapses or those from your optic nerve to your visual cortex. Your a summation of all the trillions of parallel connecting pathways in your brain - not the data itself - but the 'shape' of its output.

Your experience is telling you there's something there, your interacting with it, as your hand interacts with a table or a spoon, but the science is telling us the table and spoon are mostly empty space, the strung out atoms held together by fields of energy. The mind is a similar 'illusion', but one still dependent upon and defined by a material substratum.

In the case of race a more primitive organism is less refined, and its output and behavior are ghostly echoes of this primeval, material nature and hence a window into earlier hominid history.

Subject: Re: Spaniards and Portuguese Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:04 pm

Vanitas wrote:

Satyr wrote:: Maybe a new definition of "race" is required...one Heidegger, Hitler and many others, including Evola proposed.

Race as spirit...not as biology.
Of course biology still participates in increasing or decreasing the emergence of certain types of individuals.

Spirit is only a word describing the inside of the container, its contours and modulations, the myriad, interwoven, complex networks. It's the byproduct of material reality, the negative space in between the matter, an echo of the physical world.

Not for me it isn't...but I get the metaphor.

I do not consider the word "inside" as anything more than a description of what lies hidden encompassed by a phenomenon.

As with everything the same term is sometimes used to describe the same concept.

Spirit, for me, is another way of saying essence.....nature.
The spirit of a person or of an age is the culmination of its past, as this becomes apparent in the present.

Vanitas wrote:: This is why concepts such as spirit and mind are so hard to define.

Not for me...but you might not accept my definition. People love to maintain the mystical in what they perceive. It gives them hope.

Vanitas wrote:: They are not 'things' in themselves, but ghostly impressions resulting from the presence of matter. You're not the electical signals passing through your synapses or those from your optic nerve to your visual cortex. Your a summation of all the trillions of parallel connecting pathways in your brain - not the data itself - but the 'shape' of its output.

The difficulty remains in describing the active, dynamic world by suing static, terms, implying inert things.

Vanitas wrote:: Your experience is telling you there's something there, your interacting with it, as your hand interacts with a table or a spoon, but the science is telling us the table and spoon are mostly empty space, the strung out atoms held together by fields of energy. The mind is a similar 'illusion', but one still dependent upon and defined by a material substratum.

No space is not empty, it is a projection of possibilities.
There is only less or more activity.

But I like your description.

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on second that, i agree on this point vanitas and will lean toward a more buddhist perspective on this one.

it really does not matter to me who goes extinct. in the great scheme of things, it really doesn't matter. we are all hamsters in the wheel anyways.

when people say that life is a gift, it refers more to finding solace or good in it or creating meaning to endure it. life is not really a gift but objectively will always be a struggle. those who happen to survive to carry on are no more really blessed than those who don't. they will have to deal with the reality that it's actually a fleeting and eventually a losing battle. we will all go extinct eventually and even if we were in the very distant future be able to travel interstellar space and continue life, it's the same struggle.

this is why the concept of love is so pervading and is actually an awareness of our mortality. this universe has no respect for what is most precious to us. the illusion with all our physical and material comforts holds no water in comparison to what is most important to us. our friends and family die as well as can betray us or leave us accidentally or intentionally and life is full of pain. people who live in the most developed countries are still quite unhappy and constantly juggling the dichotomy of the ultimately illusory and unsatisfying struggle of reaching and maintaining happiness.

it's really nothing to envy, it's just what we immediately sense because we are afraid of death.

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Quote :: on second that, i agree on this point vanitas and will lean toward a more buddhist perspective on this one.

it really does not matter to me who goes extinct. in the great scheme of things, it really doesn't matter. we are all hamsters in the wheel anyways.

when people say that life is a gift, it refers more to finding solace or good in it or creating meaning to endure it. life is not really a gift but objectively will always be a struggle. those who happen to survive to carry on are no more really blessed than those who don't. they will have to deal with the reality that it's actually a fleeting and eventually a losing battle. we will all go extinct eventually and even if we were in the very distant future be able to travel interstellar space and continue life, it's the same struggle.

this is why the concept of love is so pervading and is actually an awareness of our mortality. this universe has no respect for what is most precious to us. the illusion with all our physical and material comforts holds no water in comparison to what is most important to us. our friends and family die as well as can betray us or leave us accidentally or intentionally and life is full of pain. people who live in the most developed countries are still quite unhappy and constantly juggling the dichotomy of the ultimately illusory and unsatisfying struggle of reaching and maintaining happiness.

it's really nothing to envy, it's just what we immediately sense because we are afraid of death.

Saint Paul would agree.. a heroin addict might agree also.

I partially agree with you.

If life's a bitch.. then is murder an act of mercy?

Guest

it's amazing the point was missed. you people sure wax on a lot all high, mighty and better than thou but are peculiarly imbecilic. it's just an understanding of the larger picture, not whether you eat when you feel hungry or take a shit when you have a bowel movement. as well, making the best of it still does not negate the fact that it's still a struggle and those who are left to carry on are really no more lucky than those who don't for they are the ones to carry on the burden and struggle. can you wrap your head around that or do you need to believe that you are luckier to go on? perhaps for you, this is something you need to believe.

as for asking dumb questions, it depends on how you look at it but it's those who survive who will be left in pain, not the dead. the bulk of one's happiness is in their relations with others. a parent that loses their child (but this also depends on how the child died) could look at it as they are no longer suffering as a positive but obviously they have lost the one they love, for instance.

but i'm sure you already knew that and are just being sarcastic.

Guest

Unless you're planning on committing suicide, or you're dying of malnutrition, your words aren't aligning with your deeds. Are you schizophrenic.. by chance.. or just full it?

We will.. go extinct eventually? Are you a prophet? Everything you say.. your hole attitude is straight out of the book of revelations.

Guest

can you make any fucking sense? because perhaps too much philosophical reading has got your head in the clouds and out of touch with reality.

this is funny. it's you who are making schizophrenic and compartmentalized petty arguments when the point has nothing to do with the details.

the point that it does not matter in the great scheme of things who goes extinct and those left to carry on has nothing to do with suicide or dying of malnutrition because life is a constant struggle for the living anymore than we can control whether we die in a fatal car crash tomorrow or that another could have been born in your place if a different sperm had impregnated your mom's ovum etc. hello?

we will go extinct eventually is some prophesy? lol. of course we will all go extinct eventually. even if humanity were to survive another billion years, we would most likely not be the same type of organism we are today as we live in an increasing artificial environment. genes don't automatically stop mutating or adapting, it just takes awhile to show it's effects.

if you would stop pressing your nose against the glass and step back, you would get the point. the point being that life is a constant struggle to survive. in comparison to those who are dead and/or extinct to those who are left, whether one is more fortunate than the proverbial other really is a moot point because there is a heavy price for survival and awareness too and even if there wasn't, it wouldn't matter to the dead or extinct cuz they don't exist anymore. duh?

btw, validating one's existence based on sheer ego that one is more fortunate than another is a pathetic way to live, shitty character and very shallow. if the other wasn't there to use as an excuse, one would have to face the reality that they suffer and have their own inner struggles of trying to find happiness so it's just a form of denial or defense mechanism.

don't fuking call me schizophrenic just because you fail to get the point. alright?

Guest

What do you want me to say, that your crutch is not a crutch, that your coping mechanisms are not coping mechanisms?

You come here, obviously mentally impaired, and you want an award? This isn't the special Olympics.

You are sick, you need help.
I cannot help you, you must help yourself.

I can only call a spade a spade, and not feed your sad sickness, your delusions, though they beg to fed, oh how do they plead.

There are many dichotomies worth exploring. Perhaps none more intriguing than the pro life Hellenes and the anti life Hebrews. Now, the Hebrews use their philosophy against us, they try to lower us Goy down to their level, Greek and Chinese alike. The Chinese are more Jewish in spirit than their Japanese cousins, comparatively Slaves, err, Slavs are more Jewish in spirit than their western cousins, which is why they sold out their genes and memes to communism so enthusiastically and so readily. You see communism is a lie, a sickness, it is a supernatural, social doctrine, just as Christianity is a supernatural, physical doctrine. Ha, have you seen Conan the Barbarian? Conan is the Greek, Thulsa Doom and his followers are the Jews. "Steel isn't strong boy, flesh is stronger". Why do you think so called "Guru's" from India drive the best cars, drink the finest wine and eat the best food? But I digress.

Why must you struggle against reality.. against yourself?
Have you been infected?

Life IS a struggle for survival? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought just a moment ago you were saying we cannot possibly fulfill ourselves here, in this world, that what we long for can only be fulfilled by another world, implying that we weren't made for this world. This may be true to an extent, but it is far from being the hole truth, if it were, we would all be Gnostics.

Perhaps what you meant to say was- you acknowledge the truth- our purpose is to survive, to preserve our genes, our life and the life of our brothers, sisters and children, the life of our family 1st, the life of our friends and race 2nd, and the life of our species 3rd. This is nature, this is reality, it seems you no longer deny this. You say because this cannot be fulfilled, this life is meaningless, hopeless, contradictory, absurd, and we'd be better off dead. Why don't you end it then? So far you have failed to respond to this adequately, maybe because you're echoing sentiments not your own, or you're confused, I'm not sure.

Now, you may never admit this to yourself, because you're so rational and scientific, and you know it, you're so with it, but here is what is lurking in your subconsciousness, I have seen it, and it is precious. You believe there is a spark of the divine in us all. It is this spark that makes us who we are, not our genes, not even our memes, and it is this spark that makes us all one. This spark is immortal, perfect, let's call it spirit, or love, and it longs only to be at home with God in the afterlife. Lucky for us, life is merely a journey, not a destination, we're just passing through. This doctrine says little or nothing about reality, but it says everything about the adherent. it is philosophical crack, heroin, Marxism is the secularized variant, a doctrine and a drug so popular amongst vermin.

The will to live, to preserve our existence, cannot be fulfilled indefinitely, directly, but through our family, friends, race, species and through our cultural/memetic achievements, it can be fulfilled indefinitely, indirectly. We don't know, whether our species will cease to exist or not, we don't know, whether our species will be altered beyond recognition or not. The alligator and the crocodile haven't changed much in 100s of millions of years. Perhaps the cosmologist are wrong (admittedly a long shot), maybe the earth has always been around, maybe species don't change all that much. What if humankind has always been, and always will be, so long as it continues to will itself, a chance in hell, I know, but it's all we've got. Perhaps, before our star explodes, we will invent technology to travel to other worlds. Perhaps we're a continuation of an alien race, life may travel from planet to planet via asteroids and/or spacecraft.

Now, even putting all speculation aside, I think even if we knew our species will die, millions of years from now, most people would still choose to go on, to procreate, to eat, drink and be merry, for this life is all we have with certainty, so we make the most of it, and we only ever seriously contemplate ending it when it becomes too much to bare, because life has dealt us a most unfortunate hand, environmentally and/or genetically. Life may have dealt you a poor hand, but you're still here, talking to us, trying to convince us of something, influence us, impress us, so you still have some life left in you. I think you're fooling yourself when you speak so negatively about life, but you're not fooling me. You are projecting your present negativity onto the universe and onto me, you mistakenly think we should all adopt your attitude.

Guest

Of course if I had 3 wishes I would wish for peace on earth, happiness and immortality for all.. or would I wish to be lord of all worlds, lol, but life doesn't work that way, nature is cruel, sometimes we're forced to choose between ourselves and others, friend or foe, our race, land and culture or alien races, lands and cultures, our species or other species. One who isn't prepared to make that choice is living in a fantasy world, his reason has been hijacked by his emotions, by his naivete, or by the master of puppets (Israel), and he or she will be trampled on.

Godspeed.

Guest

cranapple wrote:: on second that, i agree on this point vanitas and will lean toward a more buddhist perspective on this one.

it really does not matter to me who goes extinct. in the great scheme of things, it really doesn't matter. we are all hamsters in the wheel anyways.

Of course, the Buddhist perspective. But is that a perspective at all one asks, or simply an inherited aspect of your own racial past? Your default nature?

Perhaps some grow tired of this world, and embrace a return to the Flux. But death is not the end, it is merely a tool of evolution. For others it offers a new beginning as a rotting corpse provides a feast for the living. It makes space and resources available for the emergence of new life, new species which are an improvement on the old. Others will come after us, and things will come to pass that you cannot imagine. It is for that world that one also fights, not only for this, because as clearly as one can predict the trajectory of the asteroid, one can predict the direction evolution is going from where it came.

The liberal deception that evolution can go in any direction or is completely random is an attempt to conceal the very direction it has taken over the past billion years, towards ever increasing intelligence, self-awareness and imagination... towards an increasingly complex, expanding mental space. But if one is to survey the hominid world one finds great incongruity in the quantity and quality of these traits, leading one to an inevitable conclusion.

The question then becomes why have those races with a surfeit of these qualities chosen to conceal this fact? Who profits from this?

Guest

Pardon my absence. The events of the past couple of weeks turned my life upside down.

I hope you don't mind if I go back and reply to some posts I left hanging.

Getting on with it.

Vanitas wrote:

Quote :: I guess that is what happens when people try to use science to proof their believes.

This isn't a hard science, so it's not surprising that even those working at the cutting edge can be entirely guided by political and economic forces, without reality creeping in at all.

I agree that this is a very polarizing subject and there is bias flowing both ways, making it nearly impossible to get a clear perspective.
You can question the conclusions at your will, that is fine. But what you are questioning is the method, and the method case about as "hard science" as there can be a hard science.

But as you know, our wonderful scientific method allows for literally everything to be put into question, so there really is no such thing as hard science. You are more than welcome to try your hand at it. We'll be holding our breath.

Quote :

Quote :: But in that case... since I am siding with the mainstream on this one, the burden of proof is on you.
This is going to be good.

There's nothing to disprove. The field is open to the most daring and adventurous thinkers, not those who fearfully follow the establishment like trained monkeys, ironically the very monkeys who only a century ago were berating it for not paying them enough attention and considering them as equals.

I mean, don't they have any integrity?

As I just said, the scientific world welcomes you or anyone else with an alternative that better explains the observable.
Ignoring fact because it doesn't align with your views, though, is irrational, illogical, dishonest.... It's what the term "denialism" was coined for.

And as you know... arguing with a denialist is like the special olympics...

So I will leave you to it. Good luck.

Guest

phoneutria wrote:: As I just said, the scientific world welcomes you or anyone else with an alternative that better explains the observable.

No it doesn't my dear, because in the case of race and gender it is already following a religious credo of equality and sameness. There's no money and hence no research grants and hence notoriety and hence no career in daring to question the central doctrines of secular liberalism.

If you exclude people from the system then you exclude a potential market place as well as labor and raw resources and that is what this is all about - capitalism. Women's rights has fuck all to do with altruism or caring about females.

Quote :: Ignoring fact because it doesn't align with your views, though, is irrational, illogical, dishonest.... It's what the term "denialism" was coined for.

It's arguable that even the Christian Church is in less of a state of denial these days than secular liberalism.

Quote :: And as you know... arguing with a denialist is like the special olympics...

So I will leave you to it. Good luck.

Why don't we start with a simple exercise. I post an image of the human fossil record, below, and you explain to me why only a minority of the worlds population - white Europeans, some Arabs and Indians - demonstrates a skull of the type 'N' or 'M', whilst a large majority - black sub-Saharans - are more similar to 'I' or 'J' but with greater prognathism (a larger, more protruding jaw) as in a 'F' or 'G'? According to the logic of liberal anthropologists all the hominid strains present in this image should be extinct with the exception of 'N'.

Where is this one species, this one humanity that secular liberals tells us exists?

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