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 Technology and the Levelling of Man

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PostSubject: Technology and the Levelling of Man Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:51 am

Evidence of how technology is part of the levelling of man, allowing even the participation of animals in human social networks, and how this will inevitably be used as yet more ammunition by deluded liberals that primates (sub-races) are equally as capable as us (the description of the psychological nature of orangutangs below could equally be a description of blacks, so well does it accord with their behavior and interests):

Quote :
Orangutans 'could video chat' between zoos via iPads

Mr Zimmerman, from the charity US-based charity Orangutan Outreach, said he had wanted to give the device to the animals ever since it was launched back in January 2010.

The animals have, Mr Zimmerman said, been captivated by watching television on the devices, particularly when it featured other orangutans, and even more so when they saw faces they recognised.

"They love moving images. They love bright things. They like to be entertained! "They love new things, so one of the first things we're going to do to incorporate that is make sure the facilities have wi-fi capabilities so that the orangutans can actually have access to unlimited information - of course with the keepers guiding them."

"Orangutans love looking at each other," said Mr Zimmerman, adding that one of the apes, 31-year-old MJ, is a fan of David Attenborough programmes. "The orangutans loved seeing videos of themselves - so there is a little vanity going on - and they like seeing videos of the orangutans who are in the other end of the enclosure.

They are looking into building a re-enforced iPad suitable for being thrown around, or perhaps fixing the device to a wall so it could in turn be hooked to a large projector viewable by zoo visitors. In addition to this, Mr Zimmerman said there were developers keen to put together apps for the orangutans using design techniques similar to those adopted in software aimed at young children.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16354093
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:30 pm

like an asshole, you are begrudging orangutans some harmless entertainment?

wtf is wrong with orangutans loving moving images or bright colors? uh, nothing??

also, what is wrong with orangutans? uh, nothing??

people have come up with idiotic things like hollywood and making moving pictures so they can watch themselves in often made-up situations. how freaky is that? even freakier is they have these award shows where they dress up and pat eachother on the back for being good 'actors' and give eachother miniature statues. lmao

well, people need something to entertain them on this ball of rock when they aren't sleeping, eating, shitting or fucking? right?

you stupid idiot, complaining about the most stupid shit. your jealousy towards orangutans is pathetic.
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:50 pm

zzzz
What a miserable existence it must be to not be able to read a single article without finding fuel to feed your paranoia.
Let's look at the world this way, and only this way, because... because.
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:56 pm

On a side comment. I like the amazement of researchers and readers when they find that animals, specially birds, aren't as dumb as they thought they were. They assume the most rudimentary thinking systems, because they just don't know it, only to have their pre conceptions shattered by simple observation.
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:10 pm

I would say that birds and bird-brains, are equal.

I can't imagine how evolution happens when genetic isolation and the environment forcing physical, but not mental, mutations is denied.

We'll have to assume that intelligence evolves magically or that humans, for some reason, are excluded from the natural selection rules.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:37 am

phoneutria wrote:
On a side comment. I like the amazement of researchers and readers when they find that animals, specially birds, aren't as dumb as they thought they were. They assume the most rudimentary thinking systems, because they just don't know it, only to have their pre conceptions shattered by simple observation.
Yet if experiments demonstrate that primates are more intelligent than we thought they were, though still only on a rudimentary level, then it may equally be true that some hominid groups/races are less intelligent than we thought they were.

But for some strange reason there seems to be no will to investigate this latter possibility.

Yet still some idiots on here try to convince us that science is value free and unaffected by social and economic forces.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:20 pm

And you don't see how that's entirely ... not the same at all.
What you want to see is different intelligence levels between two populations of orangutans.
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:54 am

phoneutria wrote:
And you don't see how that's entirely ... not the same at all.
What you want to see is different intelligence levels between two populations of orangutans.
Do these population groups look different, have different biologies, right down to their cells and different brain morphologies?

It is intelligence that separates man from animal, and hence our humanity is a property determined primarily by the size, shape and structure of the brain. In sub-Saharan Africans the brain is undeveloped and more primitive. There are big differences, for example, in the size and shape of the prefrontal cortex, which of all the races is the most highly developed in Europeans.

Quote :
It is also widely believed that the size and number of connections in the prefrontal cortex relates directly to sentience, as the prefrontal cortex in humans occupies a far larger percentage of the brain than any other animal. And it is theorized that as the brain has tripled in size over 5 million years of human evolution,[30] the prefrontal cortex has increased in size sixfold.[31]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefrontal_cortex

Many Afrcians have grooves and bulges across the cranium, suggesting an underlying primitive brain structure which has more in common with the skull morphology of gorillas or baboons than chimpanzees. The idea that we have common primate origins is something that should be contested.




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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:17 pm

That's all very interesting, but I don't think this is the most appropriate place for this discussion. You should post your theories at Sciforums. They have a new forum now called Fringe Science that will suit you very well.
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:45 am

phoneutria wrote:
That's all very interesting, but I don't think this is the most appropriate place for this discussion. You should post your theories at Sciforums. They have a new forum now called Fringe Science that will suit you very well.
Blah, blah, blah...

Yet still you cannot explain why you and every other liberal must deny the physical nature of blacks. Why that nature causes you so much anxiety you must reject its existence. It is a child's view which has become indistinguishable from that of the modern mind. Reality is too ugly and frightening for children so certain reports and ideas and images must be kept off the nights news. People must be protected from an indifferent and uncaring universe, even if that means they will inevitably become half-blind liars and hypocrites... blind, in fact, to knowledge of their own nature, as you undoubtedly are.

You are a perfect child of the simulacrum. Not an architect or outsider, but one that prefers the security and safety it offers against the real, a true sheep.

I wish you all the best with your meaningful(less) existence.


Last edited by Vanitas on Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:51 am

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:54 am

Augmented Reality

Quote :
Augmented reality (AR) is a live, direct or indirect, view of a physical, real-world environment whose elements are augmented by computer-generated sensory input such as sound, video, graphics or GPS data. It is related to a more general concept called mediated reality, in which a view of reality is modified (possibly even diminished rather than augmented) by a computer. As a result, the technology functions by enhancing one’s current perception of reality. By contrast, virtual reality replaces the real world with a simulated one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augmented_reality
Evidence of how the simulacrum is transforming our perception of reality, but not physically changing it. Merely masking and camouflaging it. It is similar to the way the human form is edited in pre-production media, the blemishes and asymmetries carefully airbrushed over or 'corrected', and more darkly how this is applied to even images of the cosmos, adding colors and effects to give them a sense of the sublime, of there being something more there than there is, and that thing being somehow there to comfort and entertain us.
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:08 am

Images of the M51 whirlpool galaxy. The top four are heavily edited post-production, usually in paint shop or a similar programs, often times the original image is taken using filters. The bottom image is unenhanced.

The results are that the top four are candified images of the universe, which have more in common with Disneyland or a fairy tale than reality. These are the kinds of images used by publications such as the National Geographic and other academic journals. They are the ones the public is most familiar with either through still media or movies, and it is these that color the public's perception of the universe.









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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:23 am

In a more striking example, the Horse Head Nebula, or Barnard 33, an emission nebula in Orion. Again, the top four are heavily edited and processed, the last one is raw.

It's easy to see how such images play on the more religious inclinations of our nature, designed to provoke awe and wonder, and in doing so encourage us to see magic and mystery in the universe that simply isn't there.









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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:59 am

Yes, this is one aspect of how technologies create The Matrix.

Another is more immediate and everyday.
Go to the supermarket. Observe the produce.
Shiny, almost unblemished...the meats with very little blood.
individuals are raised in a world where nature is pristine, "perfect" for human consumption...no worms, no nasty smells of blood and feces coming out of the animal's entrails...reminding us of what it was.

Now transpose this romantic idealism into the realm of human relationships.
Human affairs are about "pure" love; ego-less...no domination, no conflict, no ulterior motives no cost/benefit...no nastiness.
Everything is unblemished by reality.

If it is, then there must be something more to it....

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:53 pm

You have been living in asceptic Canada for too long.
This is not what most of the world is like.
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:04 pm

My dear, I've lived in Europe, Greece more precisely, for over ten years.....in the country.

What the world is like I know....what the world will be like I can imagine.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:06 pm

Do youyou foresee a future with clean and unblemished food, pure love, no domination and no conflict, or at least one in which the majority of the population can make itself believe that ilusion? You are a lot more optimistic about the future than I am.
Better start churning out that soma, we'll need a lot.
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:11 pm

I foresee naive, infantile, stupid masses living in fantasy realms where justice reigns, all is peaceful and evolution works on love.

Partly it has began....look in the mirror, dear.
Niggers must have had a glorious civilization....otherwise how unjust the world would be...and yes, it was injustice done to them which kept them from attaining the heights they deserve.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:20 am

http://www.halexandria.org/dward026.htm

I wanted to post this link, instead of quoting. It is a reflection of some of my own intuitive thoughts concerning the internet.

Another day gotta chop wood and carry water.
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:28 pm

Satyr wrote:
I would say that birds and bird-brains, are equal.

I can't imagine how evolution happens when genetic isolation and the environment forcing physical, but not mental, mutations is denied.

We'll have to assume that intelligence evolves magically or that humans, for some reason, are excluded from the natural selection rules.

While living in Greece may make you qualified than most, that certainly doesn't qualify you for knowing the world.
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:34 pm

Never claimed anything about the world.

My living in more than one nation at least makes me more qualified than those who only visit other nations as tourists for a week or two.
There is a difference between living somewhere and visiting somewhere knowing that you will go back home without ever actually tasting the reality of the place.

But how does this have anything to do with the quote you responded to?

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:46 pm

sweetpea wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I wanted to post this link, instead of quoting. It is a reflection of some of my own intuitive thoughts concerning the internet.

Another day gotta chop wood and carry water.
The internet is proving to be a fascinating subject.

I would say other than how it is providing access to information it is also making it difficult to judge which information is reliable.


This "Global Mind" you mention is nothing but the hive mind, the herd mind, gaining prevalence over all independent or more discriminating thoughts.

There is such a thing as too much choice or too much information, particularly when the methods of judging are never cultivated.
Take Democracy and its all-participating aspects, though this might be a myth more than a reality:
Does offering equal vote to both the average, the below average and the above average lead to a "higher" judgment or does it diminish thinking, lowing it to its lowest common denominator?

Take these on-line philosophy forums which have a policy of all-inclusiveness, mass participation, just as long as all are respected equally...in other words they are internet interpretations of the real-world with its contrivances, hypocrisies and restricting rules: do they result in any "higher" intellectual conversation or do they remain fixed upon the same social parameters they would have if this conversation was occurring publicly in the "real" world, and not in an anonymous setting where presumably all are more free to speak their minds?

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:24 pm

The new form of book burning: http://svigor.wordpress.com/

Corporations with "hate speech" legislation.
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:41 pm

Anything can be labeled "hateful" because emotion does not subscribe to reasoning.
Anybody can claim to be hurt by a comment.
Anything can be considered to be promoting violence or to be hateful if it even hints at a biological discrepancy which insults or hurts someone's feelings.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:53 pm

Indeed.

Weasel words they can use to censor anything they disapprove of.
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:25 am

Satyr wrote:
sweetpea wrote:
http://www.halexandria.org/dward026.htm

I wanted to post this link, instead of quoting. It is a reflection of some of my own intuitive thoughts concerning the internet.

Another day gotta chop wood and carry water.
The internet is proving to be a fascinating subject.

I would say other than how it is providing access to information it is also making it difficult to judge which information is reliable.


This "Global Mind" you mention is nothing but the hive mind, the herd mind, gaining prevalence over all independent or more discriminating thoughts.

There is such a thing as too much choice or too much information, particularly when the methods of judging are never cultivated.
Take Democracy and its all-participating aspects, though this might be a myth more than a reality:
Does offering equal vote to both the average, the below average and the above average lead to a "higher" judgment or does it diminish thinking, lowing it to its lowest common denominator?

Take these on-line philosophy forums which have a policy of all-inclusiveness, mass participation, just as long as all are respected equally...in other words they are internet interpretations of the real-world with its contrivances, hypocrisies and restricting rules: do they result in any "higher" intellectual conversation or do they remain fixed upon the same social parameters they would have if this conversation was occurring publicly in the "real" world, and not in an anonymous setting where presumably all are more free to speak their minds?

Yes I have learned to recognise some of these herd mentalities by the feeling of fear that they create within.

I also agree with your points about philsophy forums, although I found myself in the debate sites. I was quite excited coming here, because I have been in search of a place online , although I was never really sure what I was looking for.

Ultimately, when it comes to creating and making change I have used the phrase become the change that you wish to see in the world. I dont really seek to change the world first before conquering and knowing myself.
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:48 am

Quote :
It is intelligence that separates man from animal, and hence our humanity is a property determined primarily by the size, shape and structure of the brain. In sub-Saharan Africans the brain is undeveloped and more primitive. There are big differences, for example, in the size and shape of the prefrontal cortex, which of all the races is the most highly developed in Europeans.

It is also widely believed that the size and number of connections in the prefrontal cortex relates directly to sentience, as the prefrontal cortex in humans occupies a far larger percentage of the brain than any other animal. And it is theorized that as the brain has tripled in size over 5 million years of human evolution,[30] the prefrontal cortex has increased in size sixfold.[31]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefrontal_cortex

though you focus on something that seems so pertinent, it's really not as you are missing what's really going on. there are things beyond race. the problem with the world isn't so much race but the issue between good and persay bad people. for instance, what i've noticed some pigeonhole jews for some unsavory characteristics can be found among any population. this type of thinking is to have a sense of control over something that can't really be compartmentalized in reality but it gives a sense of focus, even if unrealistic. i've noticed that no matter what race, people tend to support those who are similar to them in character which has nothing to do with cognitive intelligence. people are motivated by their primal instincts. for instance, i've noticed that caucasians are similar to africans and hispanics in emotions so they feel more comfortable with them. people's emotional character and inclinations will define who they really are more than anything and that's just the way animals are.

also, i've noticed that caucasians are quite animalistic in their emotional nature which is why many are volatile and are inclined to decadence and hypersexuality and aggression. it was very evident in the school system as most had the atmosphere of a toxic prison yard and not a place of learning. it certainly was not just blacks who were behaving that way as whites were inclined to the same as hispanics as having a similar affinity; aggressive, overly sexual or promiscuous, extreme bad language, general disrespect etc. there was no sense of civility but always quite lurid. some schools were a bit better but most were like this. in contrast asian students and schools generally are the complete opposite.

what you don't get is you think it's just other races when in fact, it's your own race with the problem as well. you are not the most emotionally mature people even if there are more geniuses among caucasians.

i mean, you really misread people and don't have a clue as to what is actually going on with people. i don't know if this is intentional cognitive dissonance or not. i've witnessed countless times caucasians exhibiting very bad character and a malevolent degenerate type of disdain or malice toward anything of value, right or good while advocating or supporting shit or shitty people as well. you have liars, cheats and shitty people just like any other race. like i said, these characteristics is not so much due to race as to the type of person they are as well there are people of other races who have good character regardless of intelligence. still, there are lots of idiots among caucasians as well. you've got your people all wrong. in fact, i've witnessed that most caucasians do tend to be very animalistic, even a bit psycho or too hyperreactive and impatient with a very short attention span and only a few elite who are extremely intelligent or cerebral who are more conscientious.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:50 am

Genetics is not about absolutes.

It indicates a propensity, a potential in regards to an other.
It is history manifest.

The Jews have a history; the blacks have a history; the Europeans have a history.
Forgetting it or dismissing it as irrelevant is current....modern.
A type of self-imposed forgetfulness.

What does being a gorilla imply?
That a past, a history known or unknown, has established certain potentials and even the possibilities of surpassing them.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:09 pm

Excellent analysis cran, but this white attitude you speak of, that we share with blacks and Hispanics, is due to decades of Jewish propaganda and influence in the schools and in the media. Our culture is in decline, it wasn't this way in the 1940s, 50s and 60s, this is a recent development. You invite hundreds of millions of Jews, blacks, Hispanics and animals into china and see how well behaved your people become.
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:21 pm

If I were biased, I wouldn't acknowledge the ability and achievements of mongoloids (Chinese, Koreans, Japanese), now would I?
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:49 pm

Satyr wrote:
Genetics is not about absolutes.

It indicates a propensity, a potential in regards to an other.
It is history manifest.

The Jews have a history; the blacks have a history; the Europeans have a history.
Forgetting it or dismissing it as irrelevant is current....modern.
A type of self-imposed forgetfulness.

What does being a gorilla imply?
That a past, a history known or unknown, has established certain potentials and even the possibilities of surpassing them.

My goodness.
Does that mean we are going to start to think in less absolute terms and actually consider history?
Or do we only do that when it suits you?
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:58 pm

Given your level of comprehension this is to be expected.

Before you get all happy and shit, try answering some questions for me:

If environment only effects an organism superficially then how does intelligence evolve?

If evolution is not based on the slow accumulation of mutations which are retained within a population group due to a prolonged period of genetic isolation (inbreeding) where, if the isolation persists for a long enough period, a splintering off occurs, then how do species come about?

If there is no such thing as superior or inferior within a given environment then what exactly is selected with natural selection?

If all are equal and the same then why are you so picky with your lovers or why do you want the "best" father for your children?

If height is determined as a potential inherited from the parents which immediate conditions allow to flourish, coming to its fullest point, or to wane, due to malnutrition disease etc. then why is intelligence not the same?

If appearances do not matter, particularly the appearance distinguished by racial characteristics or sexual types, then why do we even evolve the ability to perceive them?

If color doesn't matter then why does form or taste or smell?


Show me how you are a open-minded girl who can think for herself.
Show us your objectivity.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:14 pm

Darling, my comprehension capacity is the least of your concerns.
In these several threads to where this subject spread, all I have been begging for is some moderation.
Yes, lets talk about gene. But let's acknowledge that gene does not paint the whole picture. Same with history.
As I have repeated over and over again, where you are born doesn't make who you are. Of course it plays a role, but it is the indivudual's will that drives it to rise above its own "nature".
What causes will to take a particular direction and have a particular strength is defined by more than race.
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:24 pm

Sweetie, I know you like to think of yourself as the cool and rational type, but your "moderation" has the slight stink of liberalism.

So, gene does not "paint the whole picture"....then I am sure you can paint in the rest.
History, dearest is the documented past. The past does not begin with history.
Let us ignore, for the moment, that the past can be interpreted in any which way and simply go straight to how this past manifests in a present, shall we sweetie?

I gather, little girl, that you have no capacity to answer my queries, making you both simple and a coward, so let us proceed to how the present is not a product of the past.

Sweetie where you were born is the immediate past...it is part of the nurture factor. When I say past, you simpleton, is in regards to the entirety....nature.
I may have been born here but my ancestors might have come from another place. I may have been born in Africa and lived my whole life there but I am still carrying the accumulated genetic markers of my European heritage and a few generations in Africa will not alter me.
Does my being born here trump the entirety of my past?
I might train a chimp to act like a human; to even think of itself as being human....will this make it so?

Let me simplify further, does my immediate ancestry, my parents and grandparents, overpower the generations of ancestors which preceded them?
According to you niggers are not to blame because in the last 4-5 hundred years they were victimized by white slavers.
Let is forget that niggers enslaved niggers before any white man was on the scene and most importantly that there is no race of people which has not suffered from enslavement.

For you, the last few hundred years of history is all that matters...this is how "deep" you go.
Of course in the last few hundred years race mixing has made the issue more difficult...at least for simpletons.


So let us start slow and easy, shall we sweetie?

We agree that genes do matter, right, when we are talking about species or types or the potentials and characteristics we distinguish them by?
Now you tell me what else matters?

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:47 pm

Satyr wrote:
Sweetie, I know you like to think of yourself as the cool and rational type, but your "moderation" has the slight stink of liberalism.

So, gene does not "paint the whole picture"....then I am sure you can paint in the rest.
History, dearest is the documented past. The past does not begin with history.

The present doesn't exist. As soon as an event occurs, it becomes past, and thus, it becomes history.

Quote :

Let us ignore, for the moment, that the past can be interpreted in any which way and simply go straight to how this past manifests in a present, shall we sweetie?

A fair interpretation of history is the staple of a rational mind Smile
And as such, it is never absolute.

Quote :

I gather, little girl, that you have no capacity to answer my queries, making you both simple and a coward, so let us proceed to how the present is not a product of the past.

I didn't answer them because I found them obvious. Satyr my dear, I do not disagree with you on evolution or the scientific method. And I have already declared myself to be full of innate prejudice. If you value the answers so, I will answer:

If environment only effects an organism superficially then how does intelligence evolve?
It doesn't effect only superficially.

If evolution is not based on the slow accumulation of mutations which are retained within a population group due to a prolonged period of genetic isolation (inbreeding) where, if the isolation persists for a long enough period, a splintering off occurs, then how do species come about?

It is... sort of. (I won't split hairs on technicalities here since you were obviously trying to be brief).

If there is no such thing as superior or inferior within a given environment then what exactly is selected with natural selection?

The superior is not the one who comes out on top. It is the most fit.

If all are equal and the same then why are you so picky with your lovers or why do you want the "best" father for your children?

For fucks sake. All are not equal. You think that I think this way, because it suits your flawed conception of me. Drop it.

If height is determined as a potential inherited from the parents which immediate conditions allow to flourish, coming to its fullest point, or to wane, due to malnutrition disease etc. then why is intelligence not the same?

It is the same.

If appearances do not matter, particularly the appearance distinguished by racial characteristics or sexual types, then why do we even evolve the ability to perceive them?

zzz... they matter.

If color doesn't matter then why does form or taste or smell?

It matters.

I'm sorry I can't give you better answers. The reason is, as I have already said, I am not who you think I am.

Back to the post...

Quote :

Sweetie where you were born is the immediate past, when I say past you simpleton, is in regards to the entirety.
I may have been born here but my ancestors might have come from another place.
Does my being born here trump the entirety of my past?

Let me simplify further, does my immediate ancestry, my parents and grandparents, overpower the generations of ancestors which preceded them?

Once again you are attempting to make something I said mean something other than what I meant. You want me to be a simpleton. It is less work for you to assume that because my words are brief, they are empty. We have been through this.
When I talk about "where you are born" I am referring to your heritage. It involves both your family's racial and cultural background, and your society's (the one where you will grow up) racial and cultural background. In other words, everything that puts you on the same ground as your siblings.

Quote :
According to you niggers are not to blame because in the last 4-5 hundred years they were victimized by white slavers.
Let is forget that niggers enslaved niggers before any white man was on the scene and most importantly that there is no race of people which has not suffered from enslavement.

While at that, let's forget that romans enslaved franks, saxons, bretons, etc. That european "barbarian" tribes , in turn, enslaved one another. That slavery is territorial more so than racial.
And then, let's talk about this side subject for a few pages, and ignore the core of the issue, a nation's deprivation of its own wealth.

Besides, who's talking about blame... What blame?

Quote :

For you, the last few hundred years of history is all that matters...this is how "deep" you go.
Of course in the last few hundred years race mixing has made the issue more difficult...at least for simpletons.

Really?
Haven't I been discussing paleolitic and neolitic history with you for at least a month now?
You mention the last 500 years of history in Africa above. So do you think we should ignore the first arab invasions, the greek influence, the carthagian empire, the roman invasion, the various subsequent arab invasions, the ottoman invasion, the portuguese and spanish invasions, napoleon's invasion, etc etc that have been going on for at least 2000 years? Do these not matter as much as the 19th century scramble for land?

Quote :

So let us start slow and easy, shall we sweetie?

pfff, please! That's all I ask. Let's agree on pre-history first Smile

Quote :

We agree that genes do matter, right, when we are talking about species or types or the potentials and characteristics we distinguish them by?
Now you tell me what else matters?

Are you implying that nothing else matters, after all we have discussed?

You answer me this, then. What makes a hypothetical man a no-good, scumbag, welfare-leeching, drug-pusher, and his hypothetical brother a hard-working, self-improving, valuable member of society?
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:57 am

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Phoneutria wrote: As I have repeated over and over again, where you are born doesn't make who you are. Of course it plays a role, but it is the indivudual's will that drives it to rise above its own "nature".
There is nothing that can't be reduced to nature or nurture. Genes, plus what we believe the odds are of being successful in our endeavors, gives us our will. If you played around with a man's genetic and physiological makeup, you could make him less motivated, more tired and have less discipline, less foresight. Although I have no scientific study to support this (however, there are plenty of scientific studies that prove Negroids are dumber than Caucasians, on average), I think Negroids are probably less able to overcome their nature, their nature is more powerful than Caucasian nature. You speak of will as if it is something supernatural, something beyond the physical, something metaphysical, and this is your religion, it is not science, and it is not good philosophy, either. Smoke a marijuana cigarette and witness your will power fade. Fail miserably multiple times at a given task, and witness your willpower fade. Will isn't this, thing that magically floats above genetic history and experience, it is predetermined by them, cause and effect, like everything else. This is the realist position, what you're offering is a partial idealism, which makes you a dualist, and more spiritual than you probably realized.

Quote :
You answer me this, then. What makes a hypothetical man a no-good, scumbag, welfare-leeching, drug-pusher, and his hypothetical brother a hard-working, self-improving, valuable member of society?
What causes one brother to have cancer and another not? Bad mutations, poor lifestyle choices due to different experiences, ignorance, less access to healthy foods. The wayward brother may have inherited recessive genes, or perhaps he was the youngest brother, younger brothers tend to be spoiled more. Of course there are little random factors that are difficult to pinpoint, but we should assume they are physical (as they almost certainly are), as everything turns out to be, and that they follow the laws of cause and effect.

Our short term history does matter, but I have to agree with Satyr that on average, our long term history matters more. Nothing exists outside of history, everything is conditioned, everything has limits. This is the world of experience. There may be things outside of our experience that operate on different laws, or no laws at all, however, we certainly don't need them to explain will, or virtually everything else we regularly experience.
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:37 am

Will, will is the mind exerting itself against physical and emotional power. The mind has it's own plans, sometimes these plans are contrary to emotional and physical desires. Often the mind is trying to satisfy long term emotional and physical desire, whilst emotions and appetites demand to be satiated immediately. The power of will, like everything else, has limits and a history, cause and effect. Scientists have done twin studies and they found twins tend to turn out quite similarly, in terms of discipline, foresight, intelligence, personality and lifestyle, even in spite of being born in different countries or being raised by different parents. Instead of focusing on the few exceptions and believing will, discipline and foresight are transcendent, why don't you focus on the overwhelming evidence that suggest otherwise- all aspects of personality can be determined by genes and when and where they can't, experiences. This notion of will, something transcendent, something mysterious and not inherited, is a cop out, wishful thinking, and looks to the exceptions rather than the rules to establish itself, instead of assuming what you should assume. Although we don't know all the reasons for why people turn out the way they do, you assume the opposite, that there isn't a cause and effect, that there aren't material, measurable and explicable reasons, they possess will and that is all there is to it. Well, where does will come from, if it doesn't come from genes, physiology, chemistry and experiences? Does it come from God, or stranger still, does will will itself into existence?
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:53 am

phoneutria wrote:


The present doesn't exist. As soon as an event occurs, it becomes past, and thus, it becomes history.
Excellent little girl.

phoneutria wrote:
I didn't answer them because I found them obvious. Satyr my dear, I do not disagree with you on evolution or the scientific method. And I have already declared myself to be full of innate prejudice. If you value the answers so, I will answer:
You are a hypocrite?

phoneutria wrote:
If environment only effects an organism superficially then how does intelligence evolve?
It doesn't effect only superficially.
Little woman, you who is deep and wise, this is not a response...it is a statement.
If environment effects the organism only "superficially" then how does intelligence evolve and how do multiple species come about, dear?
Did God make them?

phoneutria wrote:
If evolution is not based on the slow accumulation of mutations which are retained within a population group due to a prolonged period of genetic isolation (inbreeding) where, if the isolation persists for a long enough period, a splintering off occurs, then how do species come about?

It is... sort of. (I won't split hairs on technicalities here since you were obviously trying to be brief).
Sweetie, another brilliant post.
Are you here to think or to display your thinking or are you here to masturbate?
Sweetie, answer the questions...you who is deep in your thinking and more historically aware.

phoneutria wrote:
If there is no such thing as superior or inferior within a given environment then what exactly is selected with natural selection?

The superior is not the one who comes out on top. It is the most fit.
Excellent reiteration of the obvious.
I like how you say the same thing using a different word.

Bravo! The fit, within a given environment, pass on their genes, right sweetie?
We can call them superior.
Now, my dear, how does this hypothetical organism become fit?
Is it a divine grace that makes it so? Do aliens make it so? Does it pray?

phoneutria wrote:
If all are equal and the same then why are you so picky with your lovers or why do you want the "best" father for your children?

For fucks sake. All are not equal. You think that I think this way, because it suits your flawed conception of me. Drop it.
Sweetie, you state this in theory, but pragmatically you are desperate to find equalizing evidence in all areas.
Look at your performance with the Niggers in ancient Egypt.
You had to find something to raise them into equal status with the Europeans or the Asians. You went so far as to go to Ethiopia.

phoneutria wrote:
If height is determined as a potential inherited from the parents which immediate conditions allow to flourish, coming to its fullest point, or to wane, due to malnutrition disease etc. then why is intelligence not the same?

It is the same.
Excellent judgment, sweetie.
Now, since it is the same how does it evolve if environment has no effect and it is brought about by - presumably - some sort of osmosis or tender loving nurturing.
Begin by defining what intelligence is, dear.
Is it a product of a challenge; a development meant to facilitate survival?
phoneutria wrote:

If appearances do not matter, particularly the appearance distinguished by racial characteristics or sexual types, then why do we even evolve the ability to perceive them?

zzz... they matter.
Excellent, dearest...now since it matters in what way is a Nigger's appearance not relevant, or in what way is the Asian look irrelevant?
If looks matter, then this differentiation in appearance is a byproduct of environment, no? Explain how the brain remains unaffected by environment.

phoneutria wrote:
If color doesn't matter then why does form or taste or smell?

It matters.
We are maknig progress, dearest. If only we can deal with your need to excuse more quickly.

phoneutria wrote:
I'm sorry I can't give you better answers. The reason is, as I have already said, I am not who you think I am.
And you have no idea what I think you are....or what I think you think you are.
I only reply to you here in the manner your posts deserve.

phoneutria wrote:
Back to the post...

Once again you are attempting to make something I said mean something other than what I meant. You want me to be a simpleton. It is less work for you to assume that because my words are brief, they are empty. We have been through this.
When I talk about "where you are born" I am referring to your heritage. It involves both your family's racial and cultural background, and your society's (the one where you will grow up) racial and cultural background. In other words, everything that puts you on the same ground as your siblings.
Very good, sweetie...now can you imagine a situation where the environment might inhibit the development or the usage of certain inherited traits?

For example, sweetie, if you place a lion in a cage, train it to do tricks for its daily meat, have you altered the lion's nature; have you erased its inherited past?
If you train a chimp to sue the toilet, to use basic symbols as language, to behave in certain ways, and you train a dog likewise, are these two species now one and the same or are they forced to behave as if they were one and the same by an external will - stronger than both of them - which imposes a strict behavioral code?

phoneutria wrote:


Besides, who's talking about blame... What blame?
Were you not implying that the Niggers are where they are because the evil white-man did what they did to him?

phoneutria wrote:

For you, the last few hundred years of history is all that matters...this is how "deep" you go.
Of course in the last few hundred years race mixing has made the issue more difficult...at least for simpletons.
Ah, there's that liberalism.
Socialist? More severe...communist?

Let us transplant our "agreements" on genetics into the sphere of geopolitics.
Shall we begin?
Tell me, from where does civilization come? Do aliens bring it here? Does God give it to man?
How does a civilization and the culture, the arts, the morals, the faiths, the principles that characterize it come about?

phoneutria wrote:
Really?
Haven't I been discussing paleolitic and neolitic history with you for at least a month now?
You mention the last 500 years of history in Africa above. So do you think we should ignore the first arab invasions, the greek influence, the carthagian empire, the roman invasion, the various subsequent arab invasions, the ottoman invasion, the portuguese and spanish invasions, napoleon's invasion, etc etc that have been going on for at least 2000 years? Do these not matter as much as the 19th century scramble for land?
I don't want to ignore anything.
I primarily do not wish to ignore the fact that sub-Saharan Negroes developed nothing noteworthy in the thousands of years they were living in the very areas man was birthed in, and that when they did it was only because they came into contact with a more developed people who had experienced a long period of independent genetic evolution.
I just can't ignore how not one Nigger has ever provided anything comparable to an Einstein or a Plato or a Kant and when they do offer something it is always after they've come into contact with European civilizations and when they themselves have European blood in them.

But this wasn't about European civilizations, but about how ancient Egypt was a Negro one.

phoneutria wrote:
pfff, please! That's all I ask. Let's agree on pre-history first Smile
Brilliant tactic, dear.
Let's begin by you offering your opinion on how species splinter off a common ancestor and how intelligence evolves if environmental effects are only superficial.

phoneutria wrote:
Are you implying that nothing else matters, after all we have discussed?
Are you dense or is your English bad?

phoneutria wrote:
You answer me this, then. What makes a hypothetical man a no-good, scumbag, welfare-leeching, drug-pusher, and his hypothetical brother a hard-working, self-improving, valuable member of society?
I love how despite the fact that you offer declarative responses to my questions you now wish for me to offer you responses to yours.
But, alas, this is something I've gotten sued to over the years.

Let me answer you with a question:
Where did I ever say anyone was a "scumbag" because he was a nigger?
If I say dogs are dumber than dolphins am I proposing to drown dogs in the ocean?
What ever gave you the impression I was interested in civil obedience and being a "good citizen"?

But given your simplicity, as you can only think in social terms which is normal for females, if all have different potentials then is it not logical to assume that what a Nigger can be in regards to "self-improvement" and a disciplined "hard working" member of society is not the same as when we talk about these things in regards to Asians.
The tendency towards violence, the stupidity, the loss of control, but also the tendency to accept authority without questioning it lucidly, or to think outside the box is not equally distributed amongst peoples coming from different backgrounds.

Niggers are of lower intelligence and so have a tendency to fall for supernatural forces and simplistic methods of controlling them, but at the same time this simplicity of mind makes them more instinctive and so they also tend to be disloyal to these Godly authorities not because of rational consideration but because of an inability to contain their more animal natures.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:56 pm

That's not what I asked.
I asked what makes two siblings different, given that they have the same heritage, receive the same education, and live in the same culture.

(I'll give attention to the rest of your post when I can take a breath. Busy day.)


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