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 Technology and the Levelling of Man

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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:02 pm

phoneutria wrote:
That's not what I asked.
I asked what makes two siblings different, given that they have the same heritage, receive the same education, and live in the same culture.
I'm not going to force-feed you this, little girl.

You already discounted environment, no?

Here is a hypothesis going waaaaay back to the primordial soup. Let's really delve into pre-history, dear woman.

Now imagine a single cell organism coming about.
How does it replicate?
It divides, no? There is no sex, no need for love, no necessity for the bullshit people like you use to excuse themselves from the world.

So this single-cell organism reproduces itself, but is the copy identical to the source?
Now you must think, simpleton....are the environmental conditions exactly and absolute the same as those present when the source, the mother, experienced when it was splintering off of its source?
Are the weather conditions the same?
Is the barometric pressure the same?
Is the background radiation absolutely similar?
Has the mother, the source cell, not experienced things along the way, from its own birth to this moment of conception?

Why are identical twins not ever exactly the same?
Would clones be?

Do try to think, simple woman.

So I ask again: does environment only affect the organism superficially?

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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:51 pm

Ghidorah wrote:
Satyr wrote:
I just can't ignore how not one Nigger has ever provided anything comparable to an Einstein or a Plato or a Kant and when
How about the guy who invented peanut butter?
Oh yeah, I forgot about him.
Well then, I stand corrected.

Peanut Butter = Internal Combustion Engine

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:09 pm



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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:46 am

cranapple wrote:


you are such an idiot. in relationships, dishonesty is a liability.

what happened to your brain?
That you hold this to be true makes you who you are....simple.

What you know and don't know is summed up in this expression of naivete.


I offer you a quote which contains the response you deserve:

Trivers, Robert wrote:
If…deceit is fundamental to animal communication, then there must be strong selection to spot deception and this ought, in turn to select for a degree of self-deception, rendering some facts and motives unconscious so as to not betray – by the subtle signs of self-knowledge – the deception being practiced. Thus, the conventional view that natural selection favors nervous systems which produce ever more accurate images of the world must be a very naïve view of mental evolution.

If you manage to understand it or why it is stated you might realize how dimwitted you are.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:00 am

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:08 am

You are probably aware of everything...but you still seem to be ignorant as to how it applies to you and to reality.
It is knowledge....you know.
Like a computer knows math.

I don't know about others but what bothers me is stupidity in all its forms.
It bothers me in the sense that it is irrational and something I must deal with daily.

The reasons you give for the evolution of deceit only exposes your simplicity, though you know it and know it better.

I offer you another "fact" we "all know":
Orwell, George wrote:
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.

Perhaps we should stop thinking and sharing thoughts because all is known by all.
For instance I know, along with others, that you are a desperate simpleton with an agenda...but I refrain from stating it because it is already known.
That you think a "relationship" is best served by honesty only shows how naive you are.
In fact all relationships are founded on deceit or selective sharing, selective intimacy.

But you already knew this, no?
You knew this even before you made a statement to the contrary.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:35 am

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:41 am

cranapple wrote:
what makes you think none of you are 'simpletons'?
Can't speak for anyone but myself.
So, I don't know anything in any absolute form, like you do.
I put it to the test.
Will you indulge my need to find out if I am simple or not by helping me put it to the test?
I want to offer you the opportunity to show me how simple I really am, and you already know I am.

We will keep this little gem on the back-burner:
cranapple wrote:
you are such an idiot. in relationships, dishonesty is a liability.
which my quote my Trivers contradicts and precede to your newer offerings of knowledge.

We'll begin with your assertion that...
cranapple wrote:
deceit is due to and often employed when in competition for scarce resources and fundamental to predation.
Here the term "scarce" is important.

Or, better still, let us begin with your last response.
cranapple wrote:
it is best served by honesty. when one can't, they resort to deceit. for some, intentional deceit is not how they want to conduct their 'mutual' relationships. absolute honesty is impossible when one is unaware of all their motivations which probably applies to everyone. that's not naivety, it just is.
I presume it "just is" in the same way God just is or love just is.
In the Trivers quote, which you already knew and understood so wonderfully, it is implied that to deceive is to buy into your own deception...in essence it is to deceive yourself so as to make the lie more convincing to the other.
Here awareness is described as more of a hindrance to survival, as it makes the deception less effective.

But you know all of this while I am still exploring and learning.
I would appreciate if you shined your light upon my ignorance.

Tell me, this state of predation and scarcity can it be, perhaps, reduced down to something simpler?
Like, let's say, the presence of need?
Would a wise man, like you, agree that deceit is necessary when there is need present, or to the degree that need is present, as in the need you describe due to a condition of fear and resource stresses, and that the absence of such a need would correspond to abundance and fearlessness?

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:07 pm

cranapple wrote:
let's evaluate what a simpleton is, literally or a perception.

cross-referencing agenda and my known motivations, it boils down to venting or just having nothing better to do at the moment. if i appear to be a simpleton to others, real or not, is water off a duck's back. i'm not being employed by any of you, i'm not trying to make friends on the internet and i don't care if i appear a simpleton or not as long as i made the point i wanted to. any desperation or personal problems i might have has nothing to do with this forum, any forum or the internet. lol
Excellent point, for in a world where quality is reduced to quantity you are evaluated by your own kind accordingly.

cranapple wrote:
i may or may not be sharing my real thoughts and opinions or all of them. i may be putting on an act or acting out one aspect of me. maybe I'm just being a trickster at times for amusement.
I'm sure that at some point some of this will matter, but until then, oh wise man from the east, please do try to trick us into believing you are smarter, rather than dumber.

cranapple wrote:
i lose nothing by being or appearing as a simpleton or crude on the internet or to those who don't affect me. i'm not being banned for profanity, insults, atrocious grammar and lack of proper punctuation or anything i post and even if i were, it's not that important. one can only judge by how one comes across or if they emphatically believe that one is a simpleton without any benefit of the doubt, i'm fine with that.

my signature: lol
Yes, and at some point you will lose nothing by appearing intelligent...and the lol's are fabulous in their consistency and quantity.

But more on topic....
cranapple wrote:

if one was truly deceived by a deception or lie that is detrimental to oneself possibly bought into by a false payoff or where the negative repercussions are not immediately known (or if it's gone so far as to be unable to pinpoint what the deception was to begin with) and further tries to convince others, it's the classic 'blind leading the blind'. they are not really aware. it could just be that one believes a lie due to ignorance but this can be corrected or people will self-correct with new knowledge.
Incredibly insightful and things nobody knows, I'm sure, but what does this have to do with the quote?
Did you understand it?

Try to answer the questions rather than squiring around like a little weasel.

One more time...
You say that honesty is the best attitude when it comes to relationship and that deception or a lie or pretense, even if it be that of omission, is only useful in conditions of depravity: a threat or a lack of resources, is this correct, wise man who knows it all?
We'll take it for granted that this honesty is founded on an honest self-assessment. We'll limit it only as it pertains to an other, as in a relationship.
Is this a correct encapsulation of your positions?


cranapple wrote:
to 'decieve' or to lie to oneself implies knowing that it was a deception, that is not unawareness. this is the classic 'dishonest' nature. but all of these have the same outcome of course, deception. intentional dishonesty or deception is never self-correcting. it has to be forced by others.
Again you seem to have missed the entire meaning of the quote as you rattle on about knowing when you are being deceitful....despite being so aware of it all.
I will consider this a lie, as you are pretending to be obtuse and simpleminded, and cannot be so, given that you already know all of this.

I will wait for a reply to the question in bold or dismiss you as a retard who is trying my patience and wasting my time.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:28 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Technology and the Levelling of Man Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:17 pm

cranapple wrote:

yes. i expounded on it over and over again. deception is not necessary if one is willing to give or if one can take by force.
I leave the "by force" aside, as deception is meant to avoid force.

Therefore, a wise and knowledgeable man, like you, will certainly agree that need is proportional to the amount of deception one is forced to use, right?
When one cannot take by force, one tries to take with guile.
One seeks to deceive when one needs something from the other or one is afraid of losing something which the other provides for him, right?


Now, let us proceed to relationships and what "better" serves them.
Would you say that a relationship is based on need, whether it be mutual or not or to whatever degree that it be present?

Resources aside, would you agree, given that you already know that there are needs based on resources but also ones based on emotions and sexuality, that a relationship is founded on need? I need love, companionship, sexual relief, comforting etc. If so then would you say that this other which is hopefully the source for all of this is like a resource we wish to tap or keep close at hand?

cranapple wrote:
self-deception is not necessary to deceive others either. only one who can understand deception (which means one can uncover it as well to neutralize it) can deceive intentionally.
You seem to be thick on this matter....but you probably know this, as well.
You seem to be unable to wrap your mind around the quote by Trivers and what it implies...you are stuck in the liar knowing he is lying bit.
What Trivers seems to be implying, but you must already know this of course, is that a liar is made more convincing when he actually buys into his own lie....because the other has evolved methods for perceiving a lie.
He also implies something very surprising, but you already know this also, and that is that if the goal is to succeed then awareness seems to be detrimental in the game of deception as it inhibits that smoothness and "naturalness" that would make it more convincing, and that, in fact, delusion is far more advantageous to the organism when deception is its method and when survival or sexual reproduction is its goal.

Let us take a form of deception which is more intimate to you.
When a female wears a push-up bra, a girdle, or paints her face to cover up blemishes, or puts on high heels to make her ass protrude or to seem taller, thusly attracting taller males and keeping the shorter ones at bay, is she aware that she is trying to deceive or does she consider it making herself look pretty, or prettier than she usually does?
Let us be even more precise. It has been discovered that when females are in their most fertile period during their menstrual cycle that they choose to wear more revealing garments, advertising, in essence, their availability or readiness. This happens on an unconscious level and if you tell them, or most of them, they might even be insulted by the insinuation.
Would you say this is true?

Also, would you say omission, though it avoids actual active participation, is also a form of deception?
For example, if I know something which the other does not and I do not say anything...or if the other believes something which I know is not true and I do not correct him, that this is also a form of deception.

And one more thing, this injection of "willing to give" is you trying to reshuffle the deck.
The Golden Rule is wonderful but not deception free.
One might be willing but unable, or the other might want too much in return...and reciprocity, no matter how it goes against your naive little romantic idealism to think so, is never balanced; one of the two parties is always being exploited.
What we call a "healthy" relationship is one where a near balance is achieved based on different value judgments and with heavy doses of bullshit.

The questions in bold should suffice, as we uncover how much you actually know.


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