Twilight of Socrates

Socrates by saying that the unexamined life is not worth living makes 2 suppositions:

1. He presupposes that there is free will, in humans.
2. He presupposes that there is a Self to examine its own life.

But free will is an illusion.
And the Self does not exist. We do have a sort of belief in our own selves, and a conscious, and we imagine that we can know ourselves. But believing this does not make it true. We cannot know ourselves in order to, in the second part, change ourselves willfully. What we know is a collection of experiences and ideas and fabrications of our thought, the likes of memories.

We are damned to live unconscious unwilling lives.

You brush away both assumptions merely by stating that they are not true.

Would you care to guide us through your logic for backing up your dismissal?

Jester wrote:

Socrates by saying that the unexamined life is not worth living makes 2 suppositions:

1. He presupposes that there is free will, in humans.

How does this follow?
What do you understand by the term "free-will", that there's an external controlling Will?

Jester wrote:

2. He presupposes that there is a Self to examine its own life.

How do you define self?

Satyr,

By telling us to examine our lives, Socrates, implies that we can chose to do this. That we are in control of our thoughts, that we have a choice in what we can think. When this clearly isn't so. We are led to believe there is a Self in control of our thoughts. A Self which wills.

Looking at the popular view of the 'self' and the prejudice of philosophers about it, I deny it. When I think what this 'self' would be like I imagine it would have to be something unitary, a sort of center of decision, which our brain clearly doesn't have - it has a lot of parts which influence behavior. Rather we believe in the self because of language.

phoneutria,

yes and done.

Jester wrote:

When I think what this 'self' would be like I imagine it would have to be something unitary, a sort of center of decision, which our brain clearly doesn't have - it has a lot of parts which influence behavior.

A unitary centre would imply an absolute, as it would have to be uninfluenced by other sections of the brain and the world in general.

I don't think Socrates implied there was an absolute self, only that there is a world to be discovered beyond the instinct driven life, and discovery of that world is going to be a matter of degree rather than complete, depending upon the intelligence and self-awareness of the individual concerned. Most are not organically capable of self-examination.