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 Is reason the slave of the passions?

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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:02 am

eyesinthedark wrote:
Quote :
And why aren't these things in our survival interest?
i shouldn't have to tell you why having 20 children, 20 clones of yourself who will carry on your genetic memory after you depart from this world into the abyss, is in your survival interests.
Lulz. You forgot that you said it -wasn't- in our survival interest.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:04 am

eyesinthedark wrote:

right and what determines value, sweetheart? did you make a conscious, survival calculative decision to love lolly pops, or to watch house on teusday evening?
Wow, your perception of what is rare and valuable is much like that love poem....without realizing that your interpretation is a giveaway to your....

dumb....ness....
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:07 am

Quote :
Your nihilism is your problem.
Retard, suffering is a degree of need; need is the sensation of existing, of Becoming of interacting.
You can't escape it but only become unconscious of it...this is death. you can only endure it...and strength is a measurement of endurance.
retard suffering is a bad, for all humans, we don't like it, and sometimes we'd rather die than suffer, demonstrate how this irrational, how choosing absence of life over presence of pain is irrational? suffering is something in and of itself, and sometimes it comes when no need is present, like when we have a migraine headache, but we still want to get rid of that headache, because pain is itself a bad for us.

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I answer in the same way Neo did:

Why?

What a tool you are.
fail

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Retard, it responds to the unknown. Have the clown stay there for a while, not harming the baby and it will begin to smile.
fool, place a piece of paper in front of a baby, a baby never seeing paper, or a toy truck, having never seen one before, and see if it responds the same way that it does to a clown or a scary man. fear can only last so long, after a while it disspates, unless it is rienforced by pain, or a new scarry stimulus.

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Retard, are you fuckin' stupid or what?
Sure, moron you know about the process of dying...you've seen it or you can imagine it...but afterwards, you stupid moron....the unknown is after...and even this experience through vicarious means is not sufficient.
fuck are you slow. am i affraid of the unknown the same as i am death? what's happening on mars now is unknown to me, does it cause me fear? death is not unknown to me, it is something known, it is absence of me, it is something inferred, but not experienced, but known, the way i can imagine what it would be like to be tortured. do you fear the unknown as much as death? is your motus operandi to keep youself alive, and get your dick sucked once in a while, or is it to know everything as much as possible. we have desires to know, and desires to avoid death, to equate the two is folly, madness, unnecessary, who taught you this you retarded imbecile, did you come up with this stupidity all by yourself? very original, congratz.

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But turd..how do YOU know?
i infer, i don't know for sure, you're the one who said you were certain women can't concieve of death, and called me retarded for suggesting they do know death.

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I repeat, turd, because you are thick, a cow, like your momma, can have ten dumb calves, like you...should I envy the cow?
Turd, cost/benefit.

How desperately you wish to lower me down to your level; to make me known to you.
The "schizoid" comment being repeated says it all, no?
Do you hear voices, girl?
Nothing schizophrenic about me...know why?
My world-view, from any direction and within any context remains cohesive and harmonious.
I hear no voices and if I hear something strange I do not assume that it is a ghost or God or an alien creature.

Turd, being pro-life does not mean all life or life of any kind.
Turd, I do not hate myself like you do.
look up the disorder turkmen, it has nothing to do with hearing voices, it is someone with asocial tendencies, tendencies that may inhibit survival, or not, depending.
retard, you could do a lot 'better' (in terms of survivability) and we both know it, well, now i'm not so sure, you may be a victim of your own arrogance.
of course there is no objective better, and a man who spends his life doing non productie things that he likes doing, he may feel he is better at playing ping pong or drawing, or whatever keeps him going, and there is no way to prove he is worse than someone else, it is just a matter of feeling, perception.
that's not to say that there isn't a real world, the world is likely one, or seems one, but it is interpreted and responded to differently by different beings.
we can say some people survive better than others, but as far as i can tell, survival isn't more logical than seeing who can collect the most sea shells, instincts that tend, retard, tend to help us survive, at least more than they help us die, happened to evolve because instincts that lead straight to death wouldn't have a chance of reproducing themselves, but there is no objective good, it is subjective, unless you're an absolutist, moron.


Last edited by eyesinthedark on Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:19 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:11 am

Quote :
Lulz. You forgot that you said it -wasn't- in our survival interest.
well, if i did, it was a typo, of course it is in our survival interests, and most people don't want to accomplish this, because man desires other things, like watching movies, or jerking off, or climbing mount everest, or writing/reading books, or whatever, playing sports, being utterly alone. life isn't just about survival, we can't always do what is 'rational', nor can we even come close, and there is no rational anyway, in terms of ethics, just a construct. reason tells us what is, not what ought to be, read david hume.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:13 am

Quote :
Wow, your perception of what is rare and valuable is much like that love poem....without realizing that your interpretation is a giveaway to your....

dumb....ness....
retard, i asked you for value here, not rare. what is valuable, define it, how are your values, what you like and dislike, better, or worse, objective, or more logical, illogical, than anyone elses?
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:19 am

And I quote :

eyesinthedark wrote:
why is it logical to desire what is rare

Quote :
what is valuable, define it, how are your values, what you like and dislike, better, or worse, objective, or more logical, illogical, than anyone elses?

They're not. We're all equal! No opinion really matters. Everything repeats, is pointless. Forget reason and its modern marvels that are destructive and unplanned.

You value eating your paint chips and well...

so do I!
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:20 am

eyesinthedark wrote:
Quote :
Lulz. You forgot that you said it -wasn't- in our survival interest.
well, if i did, it was a typo, of course it is in our survival interests, and most people don't want to accomplish this, because man desires other things, like watching movies, or jerking off, or climbing mount everest, or writing/reading books, or whatever, playing sports, being utterly alone. life isn't just about survival, we can't always do what is 'rational', nor can we even come close, and there is no rational anyway, in terms of ethics, just a construct. reason tells us what is, not what ought to be, read david hume.

Survival interest can be rationalized. It's all on how you want to spin it.
And why can't reason tell us what ought to be or even what can be?
Because Hume said.
Ah, sounds reasonable to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:24 am

Quote :
They're not. We're all equal! No opinion really matters. Everything repeats, is pointless. Forget reason and its modern marvels that are destructive and unplanned.

You value eating your paint chips and well...
i'm not saying we're all equal, some are better at surving than others, some are better at doing this thing or that thing than others, i'm just saying whether that matters to you or not, is subjective, relative, to each his own. now, you may feel that the guy whos interested in, whatever, is interested in something of little value, but that is just your feeling, we are feeling oriented creatures, in addition to rational, calculating creatures, are reason tells us how to get something, or how not to get something, or what something is, but it is our emotions that care, or do not care.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:28 am

Quote :
Survival interest can be rationalized. It's all on how you want to spin it.
And why can't reason tell us what ought to be or even what can be?
Because Hume said.
Ah, sounds reasonable to me.
because to know reason, is to know what it's function is, it just gives you cause and effect, these things share a similarity, it organizes phenomena into noumena, into ideas, and what is causually or substantially related to another thing, says nothing about whether that thing is good.

ask yourself if you would like to drink some poison now, and you will find a fear response is triggered immediately, but your reason is just telling you what is, this is poison, i am me, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:30 am

is, is not ought, ought is not anything like is, so to say ought follows from is, is like saying the number two follows from polar bear.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:33 am

well, i thought it was about time to introduce angloamerican philosophy into this continental bullshit, clear the air a little, sepearate reason from the chaff.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:33 am

Your were saying it was non-distinguished and that it was no different than anyone else's and now you changed your mind. How convenient.

Things that matter are rarely a subjective choice.

Quote :
you may feel that the guy whos interested in, whatever, is interested in something of little value, but that is just your feeling,

Here you again changing your mind. Now you're saying that it doesn't matter and that one's likes and dislikes hold no bearing because each to their own.

This doesn't have to be based on feelings alone or at all. You're making it up as you go along.
And you really suck at it.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:37 am

Quote :
Your were saying it was non-distinguished and that it was no different than anyone else's and now you changed your mind. How convenient.

Things that matter are rarely a subjective choice.
i never said things were completely indistinguishable, i never said laughter = shark, or potato = girraffe, i said that opposites are often found together, like light and darkness are found together, one cannot be aware of some things, without knowing their other. life is life and death is death, but life could not exist without it's other, like heat could not exist without cold, you see?

Quote :
Here you again changing your mind. Now you're saying that it doesn't matter and that one's likes and dislikes hold no bearing because each to their own.

This doesn't have to be based on feelings alone or at all. You're making it up as you go along.
And you really suck at it.
i don't remember contradicting this line, could you point out where?
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:39 am

eyesinthedark wrote:

because to know reason, is to know what it's function is, it just gives you cause and effect, these things share a similarity, it organizes phenomena into noumena, into ideas, and what is causually or substantially related to another thing, says nothing about whether that thing is good.

Why or why not? This is very dry, and misplaced. You're going to have to explain what this function is, then. And also what you mean by cause and effect, and conclusively what these ideas are and what it's related to and furthermore why no moral judgement can be made.

Quote :
ask yourself if you would like to drink some poison now, and you will find a fear response is triggered immediately, but your reason is just telling you what is, this is poison, i am me, etc.

Reason? Isn't that more of a gut feeling?
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:40 am

eyesinthedark wrote:
is, is not ought, ought is not anything like is, so to say ought follows from is, is like saying the number two follows from polar bear.
Do you do anything but play worthless word games?
I don't do this kind of shit.
I don't really find the need.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:41 am

life is many things, but a crucial one is, is a response to death, immediately, i'm not here to say life is not at all about the struggle to live, just that it isn't absolutely, and could never be absolutely. the will to live is a tendency, and it is made possible by constant threat of death, when you eliminate death, you eliminate much of our will, though we could still go on doing other things i suppose, like seeing who could accumulate the most money, or whatever, but life as we know it would be significantly altered if death was eliminated it, we'd have to redefine it.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:42 am

Quote :
Reason? Isn't that more of a gut feeling?
no i mean, reason is telling you what poison is,

your gut feeling is telling you to move away from what is, the poison.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:46 am

eyesinthedark wrote:

i never said things were completely indistinguishable
You're always saying things don't matter, that it's just bad calculation and emotional appeal.
That means you find it equal, meaningless, ground level zero.

Quote :

i don't remember contradicting this line, could you point out where?
After 4 or 5 listings of your contradictions, I think I shouldn't have to prove it to you anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:46 am

Quote :
Why or why not? This is very dry, and misplaced. You're going to have to explain what this function is, then. And also what you mean by cause and effect, and conclusively what these ideas are and what it's related to and furthermore why no moral judgement can be made.
well there's a lot there, it could someone a whole lifetime to figure all these things out, but i got into this with the turkmen under the assumption we both knew what reason was, essentially. sure, i have no problem explaining these things to you, but unlike satyr, i am not god, and i am not claimin got have all the answers, there some things i fully understand and can articulate, and things i cannot, i will do my best to clarify them to you, another time. i just don't have the energy. i encourage you also to do your own thinking, and not follow what the man who pretends to have the biggest dick says, but to unleash your critical reasoning and doubt, and get serious about philosophy, instead of all this emotional bullshit this faggot does to muddy the waters, and keep his ego and his pride intact. he is much better at emotional head games than he is at dispassionate, rational discourse, so uses these to his advantage, to bring the conversation down to its level.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:48 am

Quote :
Do you do anything but play worthless word games?
I don't do this kind of shit.
I don't really find the need.
no, these are not head games for me, this is what philosophy is suppose to look like, i am merely following the tradition socrates and others layed before me, that this looks like word games to you, shows you've been reading satyr for far, far too long, he doesn't have a monopoly on truth or method, this is just his little show here, but philosophy is far more diverse than this.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:50 am

Quote :
You're always saying things don't matter, that it's just bad calculation and emotional appeal.
That means you find it equal, meaningless, ground level zero.
not true, i'm just saying matter, is something different than reason, you cannot equate the two, or at least i don't think you can, it certainly doesn't seem like you can, as far as i can tell according to the limited powers of my mind.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:51 am

eyesinthedark wrote:
life is many things, but a crucial one is, is a response to death, immediately, i'm not here to say life is not at all about the struggle to live, just that it isn't absolutely, and could never be absolutely.
When did we jump to life and death and black and white and opposites again?
What's a 'crucial' life? How is it a response to death? Why immediately?
I'm glad you're not saying life is all about the struggle to live and that it's not absolute- you're finally starting to pick up on my style and use it.


Quote :
the will to live is a tendency
A what??

Quote :
and it is made possible by constant threat of death
Un-huh...

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when you eliminate death, you eliminate much of our will

Oh so you've an ability to theorize elimination of death? That's great...
Where's life in all of this?

Quote :
life as we know it would be significantly altered if death was eliminated it, we'd have to redefine it.

Yeah, you might be right about that.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:52 am

well, who knows, i see you have potential, unlike i originally thought, you are more than just a pretty face, and i hope you forget turkmen for a little while, and explore other avenues available to you, and other thinkers and traditions, besides the narrow, range of focus here. there is so much more to philosophy than this stupid bullshit, he is very limited, but i'll admit, within that narrow range, he is very, very good, turkmen has his strengths and weaknesses.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:02 am

Quote :
When did we jump to life and death and black and white and opposites again?
What's a 'crucial' life? How is it a response to death? Why immediately?
I'm glad you're not saying life is all about the struggle to live and that it's not absolute- you're finally starting to pick up on my style and use it.
well, i have just been arguing against his absolute, he was the one who believed it was absolutely about the will to live, sure will to live is a huge portion, but there is more.

Quote :
the will to live is a tendency

A what??
well, it is not an absolute. for example, we do many things that jeopardise our life, sometimes we're aware of these dangerous activities, sometimes we're not, or they are so ubiquitous and universal, we don't pay any attention to them. for example when a man snow boards or drinks hard liquor daily he is not aiding his survival whatsoever. it is impossible for every action to be pro life, we cannot even get close to that, yet enough actions are pro life enough of the time, that we happen to continue ourselves and our bloodline.

Quote :
Oh so you've an ability to theorize elimination of death? That's great...
Where's life in all of this?
life is a relatively complex collection of organic mechanisms, an organism, an organic machine that happens to respond and react in ways that are generally conducive to it's survival, and has the ability to duplicate itself, to some degree, via offspring.

Quote :
and it is made possible by constant threat of death

Un-huh...
well it is, if i were immortal, i wouldn't have to eat or drink, i wouldn't be the same thing as i am not, that doesn't necessarily mean i wouldn't be, just that large portions of me, like things that are directly related to my survival, like eating and drinking, i would probably no longer do, since i wouldn't get hungry, and i wouldn't have to eat in order to survive, so death and life are intertwined, like night and day.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:51 am

Satyr wrote:
Me lady, you have me at a disadvantage, for you are by nature a keen eye, able to see through pretense and lies, whereas I have had to teach my self this fine art of human reading.

Projection is indeed a mode of understanding, but not all project from a personal experience because not all require to hit their thumb with a hammer to learn not to swing it so heavily and carelessly.

Nevertheless, who am I to tell you that your senses fool you?
Let us assume that you are correct and then try to figure out how this discounts anything I've said or how this makes you anything but a simple wench.

Until then the idea of my pain should suffice to keep you entertained and warmed by its vengeance.


I did find something on page 3 where you were spot on:
I have absolutely nothing to say.

That should not surprise you. I wrote it in my first post comming here.
I am here to watch.

Didn't mean to distract. Please carry on.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:34 am

She has nothing to say...
because..
she's watching...

[cat growl]
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:35 am

Yeah, that's good enough an excuse to be stupid and brief than any..
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:05 pm

Yes, she's falling back on plan B.

Plan C
entails coming up with an excuse and leaving for a time or, perhaps, for good. If you notice she continues what I talked about. She will not even disclose her agreement as this to will expose her.

But royalty is such....one must endure their quirkiness.
See why men can never beat a woman in a verbal scuffle? It's like grappling with water...she never says anything directly or succinctly...she retains evasiveness to pretend that she never meant anything she said.

It's because clarity is detrimental to her well-being...her simplicity is revealed and she wishes to remain complex; far too complex for any man, any average man, to make sense of.
She's intelligent because she has no clue, but she never lets on.

For women remaining on the level of emotion is good enough.
Awareness erases the effects of intuitive emotionalism. This is where she shines.
The goal here is not to see, to understand, to know...it is to dominate by confusing, by causing turmoil...like nature she is an agent of chaos.
This is why control attracts her so...it is exactly what she lacks.

Also, notice how she still wishes to maintain the "upper-hand".
She wants to make me "work for it" even while she is giving in.
A woman always wants a price to be paid for her surrender. It gives her nature value...the only value she can have.

She does not state specifics, she wants me to search on my own....in so doing she feels powerful, though she feels weak in all other instances.
It all occurs on a subconscious level, I'm sure...or at least most of it.

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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:09 pm

I wonder, do you expect me to give you feedback on you analysis?
I feel like it'd spoil everyone's fun.
You know how I love leaving things undetermined.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:20 pm

Keep wondering, it takes more time and way less effort.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:23 pm

Satyr wrote:
Yes, she's falling back on plan B.

Plan C
entails coming up with an excuse and leaving for a time or, perhaps, for good. If you notice she continues what I talked about. She will not even disclose her agreement as this to will expose her.

But royalty is such....one must endure their quirkiness.
See why men can never beat a woman in a verbal scuffle? It's like grappling with water...she never says anything directly or succinctly...she retains evasiveness to pretend that she never meant anything she said.

It's because clarity is detrimental to her well-being...her simplicity is revealed and she wishes to remain complex; far too complex for any man, any average man, to make sense of.
She's intelligent because she has no clue, but she never lets on.

For women remaining on the level of emotion is good enough.
Awareness erases the effects of intuitive emotionalism. This is where she shines.
The goal here is not to see, to understand, to know...it is to dominate by confusing, by causing turmoil...like nature she is an agent of chaos.
This is why control attracts her so...it is exactly what she lacks.

Also, notice how she still wishes to maintain the "upper-hand".
She wants to make me "work for it" even while she is giving in.
A woman always wants a price to be paid for her surrender. It gives her nature value...the only value she can have.

She does not state specifics, she wants me to search on my own....in so doing she feels powerful, though she feels weak in all other instances.
It all occurs on a subconscious level, I'm sure...or at least most of it.

The woman is a well kept secret with no real mystery.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:11 pm

Poison IV wrote:
Keep wondering, it takes more time and way less effort.

That is a good advise if I've ever heard one.
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PostSubject: Re: Is reason the slave of the passions? Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:03 pm

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