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PostSubject: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:44 am

Posting this from my blog
http://historicalminutes.blogspot.com/2012/03/false-myths-about-hitler.html

"The Origins of the Second World War" (1961) by A.J.P. Taylor, presents some important beliefs that historians, politicians, mass-media and ordinary people held then and might still hold now about Hitler, his desires and his doings, that are proven to be false.

1.The most popular false belief is that Hitler was solely responsible for the war. And that he wanted a Great War for its own sake, conquering the whole world, becoming something greater than Alexander or Napoleon, and to make Germany the superpower of the world. But most importantly he wanted a war because he wished for the destruction of society and people. He was a bloodthirsty maniac, like Attila. Another version of this popular legend is that he had a big plan to create a huge colonial empire for Germany in Eastern Europe by defeating Soviet Russia. But this is false because if that would of been his objective, he would of had no reason to go to war with the Western Powers.

2.The Austria crisis is also attributed to Hitler. When in fact it was launched by Schuschnigg, the Austrian chancellor at that time.

3.The dismembering of Czechoslovakia, again, not leaded by Hitler but by the British government.

4.The Reichstag Fire. A very noticeable episode in Hitler's rise to power. The false legend says Hitler and the Nazis wanted an excuse to introduce the Exceptional Laws of political dictatorship and so they set fire to the Reichstag to provide an excuse. It was actually a young dutch man, van der Lubbe, who set the fire, all alone. Hitler and the Nazis were actually surprized by this fire and they actually believed that the Communists set the fire, and so by introducing the Enabling Act, they were able to ban the Communists.

5.Hitler aimed at war at all costs. Another important myth which has been proven false. He did not aim at war but expected it to happen. So he prepared for war, just like Britain, France and any other government. He tried to avoid war whenever possible, especially with Britain, which he actually wanted to ally with. Preparing for war is what the defense ministries and armies do, it's not the same as wanting to go to war.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:11 am

The worse myth about Hitler was that he was mad.
An entire nation duped by a crazy person.

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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:14 am

Yes, the germans also love to believe that because it would somehow make them appear as 'victims' who were manipulated, when in fact they approved of Hitler and supported Germany's actions.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:55 pm

I agree with points (4) and (5), but find the first three problematic.

Take what you write in (5): "He did not aim at war but expected it to happen."

The answer to why Hitler expected war contradicts what you write in (1), i.e. that Hitler didn't have a plan for expansion into Eastern Europe.

As early as 1926, in Mein Kampf (chapter 14, "Germany's Policy in Eastern Europe"), Hitler talked about the problem of Lebensraum, i.e. population vs. land capacity (for raw materials, agriculture, etc.). Hitler developed quite a few lines of reasoning around this Lebensraum problem, so we can be quite certain that he was serious about it.

That was the basis for his desired alliance with Britain: She would keep her Empire while Germany expanded into the East.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:12 pm

Yes he did talk about it, he did want a colonial empire in the east, but, he didnt have a PLAN for it, so dont make a confusion here between his desire and him having a PLAN. Rather, he went with the flow so to speak. Just like his power surge, he lacked any cohesive plan to take power but he desired to do so.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:08 pm

I agree with that. There was no necessary 'Stufenplan'.

But I still have problems with AJP Taylor's interpretations. He tries to soften Hitler too much.

War was an integral part of Hitler's weltanschauung; and I think Hitler took a more active role in many of these events than Taylor gives him credit for.

Maybe I will look at the book for specific problems.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:58 pm

Myth about Hitler: that he is worth talkijg about.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:38 pm

He's worth talking about as a specific historical figure who had a major impact on world events; and as an example of how, in general, "mass society" can contort historical narratives.

That's at least two reasons.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:44 pm

As much as any other historical figure, but no more.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:46 pm

Less...he's evil.

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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:59 pm

Maybe phoneutria can start a new thread on some other equally-interesting historical figure.

Perchance a topic on King Tutsowamba and the Great Banana War.

I'm sure it would be as fascinating a topic as Hitler or Stalin or any other mere man of history.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:09 pm

We must be fair...because nature is all about fair play...so let us balance our interest and try to find some African with just as much appeal.

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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:12 pm

Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
Maybe phoneutria can start a new thread on some other equally-interesting historical figure.

Perchance a topic on King Tutsowamba and the Great Banana War.

This made me lulz.

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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:16 pm

Satyr wrote:
Less...he's evil.

His fault was to fail.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:18 pm

No...he was not trite and ambiguous enough.
He was too chatty.
He did not simply feel his conquest into existence.

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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:19 pm

Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
Maybe phoneutria can start a new thread on some other equally-interesting historical figure.

Perchance a topic on King Tutsowamba and the Great Banana War.

I'm sure it would be as fascinating a topic as Hitler or Stalin or any other mere man of history.

Ah, I have been there kid. So many excellent thread efforts wasted because everybody would rather be sucking hitler's dick instead...

I just don't get the disproportional obsession with this one particular mediocre commander. He didn't even win.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:23 pm

There's nothing to get.
Joos run the media.
Hitler is a useful tool
No one hasn't heard about the holocaust or been bombarded with 1940s propaganda in school, at work, on the bus, and at home on the History Channel.
Let's not forget the story is fascinating and the imagery irresistible.
It's a modern day book of the Bible.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:28 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
Maybe phoneutria can start a new thread on some other equally-interesting historical figure.

Perchance a topic on King Tutsowamba and the Great Banana War.

I'm sure it would be as fascinating a topic as Hitler or Stalin or any other mere man of history.

Ah, I have been there kid. So many excellent thread efforts wasted because everybody would rather be sucking hitler's dick instead...

I just don't get the disproportional obsession with this one particular mediocre commander. He didn't even win.
So jaded, my princess.

Whose dick would you rather be sucking?

An African King's...no a retards who you just fell in love with....just because.
No, let us speak of more important things, like how love will save the world.

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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:43 pm

I think it's time you put that strawman in a place that will make you tingle, love.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:49 pm

Ah, the old standby: the straw...man.
It usually comes before the "projecting" and the "ad hom" shit...but waaaay before the "troll" accusation.

You are so unique.

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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:07 pm

phoneutria wrote:
Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
Maybe phoneutria can start a new thread on some other equally-interesting historical figure.

Perchance a topic on King Tutsowamba and the Great Banana War.

I'm sure it would be as fascinating a topic as Hitler or Stalin or any other mere man of history.

Ah, I have been there kid. So many excellent thread efforts wasted because everybody would rather be sucking hitler's dick instead...

I just don't get the disproportional obsession with this one particular mediocre commander. He didn't even win.
Been where exactly, you old cunt?

As Poison IV said, there's nothing really to "get".. except perhaps your resentment.

Whose dick would you rather be sucking?
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:08 pm

Hitler was da bomb...and I'm not saying this because of his historical significance and how we was the last ditch effort to curb the tide of modernity, but only because I'm an insecure sad man, who wants to be controversial to seem interesting and who deflates his sense of impotence with fantasies of violence and grand conquests.

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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:12 pm

*cough*Some day I will take over the world, though.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:14 pm

Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
*cough*Some day I will take over the world, though.
Will you...'cause I've been planning it for years.

I can't get wit da ladies so I need somewhere to vent all my sexual frustrations.

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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:59 pm

Satyr wrote:
Ah, the old standby: the straw...man.
It usually comes before the "projecting" and the "ad hom" shit...but waaaay before the "troll" accusation.

You are so unique.

You have been talking about love and ponies all day, and I have been ignoring it because it's so ridiculous.
You put it in your head thatthis is what I think, and you determine yourself to bring it down.
What can I do but watch your effort and shrug?.
Do you expect me to come in defense of what YOU think I believe?

That's a job for devil's advocates. I'm just the companion.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:03 pm

And there it is!!!

The bountiful benefits of innuendo and feminine word-play.
Infinite deniabilty the desire to only have an effect...to be noticed, to be seen.

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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:25 am

thanks for ruining my thread phoneutria
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:32 am

Shhhhh, she's the Queen.

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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:15 am

You talk of it as if it was a new sweater.
Who gives a shit, Make a new one.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:17 am

Yes...your highness.

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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:33 am

bitch leave this intellect-using-thread and go make us some sandwiches cheers

where the fuck is our manservant RU by the way?? king
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:13 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:30 pm

Lulz.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:15 am

lolwut, Gidorah, are u pulling a prank on us? cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:17 pm

Jester wrote:
lolwut, Gidorah, are u pulling a prank on us? cheers
I hope he is...but it's funny.
He's put a lot of work into it.

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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:38 am

Phoneutria > His fault was to fail.
Satyr > No...he was not trite and ambiguous enough.
He was too chatty.
He did not simply feel his conquest into existence.

"The basic concept of heroic realism was propounded by Ernst Junger and the notion itself propagated by S.S. Obergruppenfuhrer Werner Best.
Best’s theme was ‘War and the Law’. He described National Socialism as an attitude of mind capable of copying the realities of the world in which peace did not exist, where struggle and tension were the rule. Such an attitude of mind visualised "no final solution" since it knew that the whole of life, the dynamic of the cosmos, consisted of tension, struggle and unrest.

To quote Best: ‘From this recognition of the truth, this refusal to contemplate a definitive solution, must emerge a new moral code unrelated to the teleology of existing doctrines. Doctrines necessarily direct action towards a certain end and so lay down what that action should consist of. The unbending rules of orthodoxy prescribe what the individual is to do in each individual circumstance. The new moral code cannot lay down ‘what’ because it recognises no such thing. It is not directed towards a specific end and does not serve some purpose of fulfilment or completion. Every moment calls into question the events of its predecessor. No set of values for which we may at one time have fought can necessarily be regarded as positive or permanent. The yardstick of the new code of morality therefore is not its context, not ‘what’ but ‘how’. In other words the manner of achievement. "The important point is not what we fight for but how we fight." The fight itself is essential and permanent, the aims of that fight are temporary and changeable.

‘There can therefore be no question of success in our fight. Desire for victory is the immediate impulse in any fight but victory is not the decisive or governing factor for those engaged in the struggle. Anyone can fight in the expectation that he will win or that ‘good cause’ will one day triumph.

‘Such a man believes in an ultimate aim and so the fight becomes tolerable to him. The criterion of the new mental attitude, on the other hand, is the acceptance of a fight in a lost position for a lost cause; the essence is to fight a good fight, whether it is for a good cause or whether it is successful matters little. Thus from a realistic acceptance of the truth will emerge a heroic code of morals. Consequently the attitude of mind which is the hallmark of National Socialism may be described as heroic realism.’ "
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In 'failing', Hitler showed how a good war is fought, and separated it from all unrelated 'victorious' Zionisms of our time and cast a Successful Form of what Aryanism is about in the pages of history. The war was fought for Aryan Lebensraum, and in his 'failing', he made that Aryanism stand in its own vital space; the failing is the success.

@Jester, The biggest myth about Hitler is that he was an Anti-Semite.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:45 am

Quote :
@Jester, The biggest myth about Hitler is that he was an Anti-Semite.

This is stupid. He was antisemitic, that's basically the biggest truth, that he hated jews.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:17 pm

Hitler was a figurehead to give the masses mindless years of gossip. I must side with my dear friend phoneutria on this one.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:27 pm

Lyssa wrote:
The war was fought for Aryan Lebensraum, and in his 'failing', he made that Aryanism stand in its own vital space; the failing is the success.

Well put.

There is a lot of fear for the Germans ruminating because of this historical event. Even though it gets people to disrespect them, it's done out of fear.

They are the most notorious nation around.
Unlike the arabic terrorist card, they have something to show for their beliefs. German contributions to philosophy, science, & technology are proof of this elitist attitude they carried and still do.
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PostSubject: Re: Myths about Hitler Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:26 pm

Poison IV wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
The war was fought for Aryan Lebensraum, and in his 'failing', he made that Aryanism stand in its own vital space; the failing is the success.

Well put.

There is a lot of fear for the Germans ruminating because of this historical event. Even though it gets people to disrespect them, it's done out of fear.

They are the most notorious nation around.
Unlike the arabic terrorist card, they have something to show for their beliefs. German contributions to philosophy, science, & technology are proof of this elitist attitude they carried and still do.

The most notorious nation around? Are you kidding me?
Do you mean the most notorious nation of the 20th century, perhaps?
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