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Impulso Oscuro

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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:33 pm

reasonvemotion wrote:
It appears this woman influenced nearly everything he did, but a poet relies heavily on his muse, and what is not always evident is that all the while he withholds himself.

The 'sensuality' for want of a better word of his verse, seems melodramatic to me.

Perhaps Maud Gonne ignited him but it was his wife Georgie that managed to bring his poetry to life in more ways than one.

Part of me thinks Yeats was trying to save Gonne from herself, look at what became of her, her first child died, she left her second and third kids fatherless. After her separation from her husband, she went on to become a suffragette. Till the end when it was clear that Yeats' final proposal was made more for her sake than his, she refused. She was more devoted to God and state than to a talented man such as Yeats. Her statement about Poets not being married is revealing about how little she cares about Poetry in general, because Poetry cannot exist without Marriage in the first place.
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reasonvemotion

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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:50 am

Quote :
Had I the heavens’ embroidered cloths,  
Enwrought with golden and silver light,  
The blue and the dim and the dark cloths  
Of night and light and the half light,  
I would spread the cloths under your feet:
But I, being poor, have only my dreams;  
I have spread my dreams under your feet;  
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.

Even Yeats has 'conditions' to be adhered to in his poetry.

Poets are essentially selfish.  They need three things.
Someone to take care of them,
Someone to be their muse, the muse creates the artificial environment the poet needs and craves. and
most of all someone to be their audience.

What is not always evident is that all the while he withholds himself emotionally from a real romantic situation, he would rather 'dream' about it and that was probably the reason he relentlessly pursued this Maude Gonne, he knew she would never acquiesce to his proposals. They both knew they were not a good match for anything other than her role as his Muse.

Impulso Oscuro
wrote:
Quote :

.........because Poetry cannot exist without Marriage in the first place.

Why do you say that, what do you mean poetry cannot exist without.......


Last edited by reasonvemotion on Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:01 am

Satyr wrote:
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It's because you, in your heart of hearts, do not want to walk on his dreams, but to be put in them.
Put in your place, not on a pedestal.

You are such a romanticist. Heart of hearts?
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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:33 am

I adapt to the one I am engaging, sweetie.

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reasonvemotion

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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:52 am

HA!  You always need to be in charge.


Last edited by reasonvemotion on Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:56 am

In charge does not mean 'in control'.
I read the room and adapt, real-time.
Like a dance.
I hear the rhythms....I see the patterns.

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reasonvemotion

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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:05 am

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I read the room and adapt, real-time.

Why?
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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:08 am

It is environment. I am organism.
if I choose to enter an environment, populated by a variety of 'creatures' I am forced to adapt or face the consequences.
If I choose not to enter an environment, I do not care. I can watch, from 'outside', like an aquarium.

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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:17 am


Consequences?
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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:20 am

For a 'strong', 'independent', 'smart' woman, like you, what consequences can deter her from expressing her true spirit?
For us mere mortals, every environment, if entered, if there's a desire or need to enter it, exacts costs, and offers benefits.
Humans are social organisms. Some are more and some less social - this establishes the degree of dependency.
Some are more and some are less discriminating, either because they are social whores, or because they are imbeciles who see no details, or reject the validity of what they perceive.

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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:32 am

Satyr wrote:
Quote :

In charge does not mean 'in control'.

A synonym for 'in charge' is 'controlled' and from what you write risk taking would not be on your agenda.
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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:36 am

I'm in charge of myself....not in control over everything and everyone else.
You insinuated that I 'felt' that I was in control of others, because in control of myself cannot be an accusation.
I can say that you 'feel' in control, as well.
I take charge, indeed. But I am never entirely in control of the outcome.

Every act, choice, entails a risk.

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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:54 am

Satyr wrote:
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You insinuated that I 'felt' that I was in control of others, because in control of myself cannot be an accusation.

Actually I was not insinuating at all. It occurred to me from what you wrote that there is a strong need for you to be in charge or in control of yourself, at all times. In fact I would go as far as saying, not insinuating, that you may find it difficult to lose that control of yourself in most if not all situations you encounter.
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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:00 am

Losing control of myself has proven costly.
It has happened many times.
Less so in my old age, more so in my youth.

We idealize what we are less like, the strange, the exotic, the other than.

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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:01 am

Thank you for your honesty.
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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:02 am

Did I give you 'control'?

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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:13 am

Satyr wrote:
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Did I give you 'control'?

What do you think.  Did you?

So many birds of prey with sharp beaks.
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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:16 am

One gives of his excess, his abundance his wealth, not of his penury, his lack.

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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:02 pm

Satyr wrote:
We idealize what we are less like, the strange, the exotic, the other than.

Wouldn't this make any objective evaluations impossible and render us all just mindless contrarians, in that we prefer something just because it's different?

And if the rule is that we idealize what we are less like, does it mean we are sometimes condemned to a constant back and forth? F.e. if we are skinny and we idealize being fat because it is less like us, then we become fat and being skinny is less like us so we idealize that. A banal example, but I think it gets the point across.

I think we idealize something because we perceive it as superior, it doesn't necessarily have to be too different from us. In some cases we may have very good foundations to realize our ideals so they are more of an improvement than a negation.

If something is too different and strange to me I'm more likely to dislike it or be indifferent than idealize it.
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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:50 pm

Idealization means we over-under-estimate it.
Convert to a pure noetic idea(l).
Doesn't mean we prefer or like it.

What is less intimate, less known, is more prone to embellishment.

Most idealize in the positive sense. They inflate what is less like anything they can relate to, imbuing it with everything they lack, and wish they were.
They project into the mysterious, the unknown, everything they wish for.
It's why occultism is never terrifying, for the modern....it is always a source of power, freedom etc.

But this has to do with that rule I once posted:
If you like yourself, you are attracted to what is most like you.
For females what is like her, but superior.

If you hate yourself you are attracted to what is least like you.

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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:01 pm

Satyr wrote:
Idealization means we over-under-estimate it.
Convert to a pure noetic idea(l).
Doesn't mean we prefer or like it.

Nevermind then, I just used the word with the second definition in mind.
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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:06 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Feminism Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:34 am

reasonvemotion wrote:
Why do you say that, what do you mean poetry cannot exist without.......

Poetry requires a cultivated mind of past nurturing. Such talent doesn't just appear from the void as many feminines seem to want to believe but is mostly the result of the potentials of a maintained bloodline, which would not be possible if not for several previous men who preceded the genius of such a man.

It is telling indeed when we speak of singular individuals in history without reference to their Families, to their Traditions, to their Fathers.

Maud Gonne appreciated Poetry without contributing herself to the cultivation of a Poet's children, what greater hatred of Poetry can there be? She reduces Poetry to a masturbatory act as a result, where people only give birth to men like Yeats only to live solitary lives and suffer on the behalf and amusement of women like Maud Gonne.

Perhaps Georgie Hyde Lees' intent in marrying Yeats might not have been the most noble, but she did manage to put her body where her mouth is and preserve the Poet's bloodline.
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