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Riastradh

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PostSubject: Re: Architecture as a Cult Wed May 04, 2016 10:01 am

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Cult_Leader

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PostSubject: Re: Architecture as a Cult Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:12 pm

Those not blinded by their own bitterness, prejudices and lack of knowledge, quickly recognises that Salingaros himself is a charlatan - he has a solution for sale and thus needs to create a problem.

The original essay "Twentieth Century Architecture as a Cult" is no longer available at INTBAU's website. It was removed not long after a certain someone  What a Face  stepped on the scene and challenged Salingaros' followers in a public debate, when they brought up his essay as "proof".

There's no reason for architects to take Salingaros seriously. He may have some valid points, but those have already been discussed in the architectural community since the 1950's. The essay should be read only as Salingaros' personal opinions.
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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Architecture as a Cult Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:09 pm

Cult_Leader wrote:
Those not blinded by their own bitterness, prejudices

What prejudices might those be?

Quote :
There's no reason for architects to take Salingaros seriously. He may have some valid points, but those have already been discussed in the architectural community since the 1950's. The essay should be read only as Salingaros' personal opinions.

Salingaros is a Scruton-ian conservative, and his elaboration against minimalism and frankfurt cult of critical theory is embedded in a wider war, and not *just* an opinion.
The disappearance or rapid decay of Aesthetics per se is fact. Against him however, is time, and now dis-emotional minimalism has been replaced by "neon emotions"...
From abstract dissonance that DE-registered emotions as weakness, shame or a luxurious decadence, to what Perniola called 'sex appeal of the Inorganic',,, buildings trying to stimulate maximal emotional response, eroticizing buildings, that I haven't seen him address in any article that I know of.


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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Architecture as a Cult Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:10 pm

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Architecture as a Cult Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:13 pm

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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Cult_Leader

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PostSubject: Re: Architecture as a Cult Mon May 01, 2017 9:01 am

Lyssa wrote:

What prejudices might those be?

Believing that one can make valid judgements about professional fields and its practitioners without having the proper knowledge of those fields.

Lyssa wrote:
his elaboration against minimalism and frankfurt cult of critical theory is embedded in a wider war, and not *just* an opinion

The Frankfurter Schule (if that's what you are referring to), is a legitimate part of modern Western Philosophy. It is subject to the same academic criticism and paradigm shifts as all other philosophies.

Also, if this "war" is so important for Salingaros, why would he remove his own essay from the web (so that his followers now link to this site instead), and not even have backed it up at The Wayback Machine?

I will not comment on any of your links (which is self-referential anyway, see original post _for reference_ Razz   ). Links on this page are not visible to unregistered users, so posting tons of links (which is also a hallmark of Salingaros' "counter-cult" of devoted followers) does not contribute to anything in the bigger picture. (See "Propaganda" and "The Art Of War" for detailed reference.)
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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Architecture as a Cult Mon May 01, 2017 7:03 pm

Cult_Leader wrote:
Lyssa wrote:

What prejudices might those be?

Believing that one can make valid judgements about professional fields and its practitioners without having the proper knowledge of those fields.

Except, the topic was not on architecture as praxis, and particular style of architects, but observing shifts as part of a cultural medium, and the expansion of a certain theory into every domain,, architecture being just one form-at of its expression.


Quote :
The Frankfurter Schule (if that's what you are referring to), is a legitimate part of modern Western Philosophy. It is subject to the same academic criticism and paradigm shifts as all other philosophies.

And so its an open topic here.

Quote :
Also, if this "war" is so important for Salingaros, why would he remove his own essay from the web (so that his followers now link to this site instead), and not even have backed it up at The Wayback Machine?

I didn't say the war was important for him, but his commentary and observations pertain to and are embedded in a larger war that I perceive.

Quote :
I will not comment on any of your links (which is self-referential anyway, see original post _for reference_ Razz   ).

Its called contextualizing than reading it as an isolated opinion of a random individual.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Architecture as a Cult Mon May 01, 2017 10:08 pm

I am aware of the fact that Salingaros may not have intended the essay as a personal attack on architects. But he may have chosen an outdated way of expressing his views on culture. I don't think he took into consideration that The Cult Of Architecture would actually emerge. Architecture is not the same it used to be, nor is cults. (I.e. Gardner's Book of Shadows was supposed to be a secret only for the initiated, now everyone can download it.)

I can agree with some of his criticism, but at the same time he is devaluing himself as an academic. He presents a set of conclusions, but makes no serious attempt to analyze the premises. The full picture is far more complicated, there's a reason why it takes 5 years minimum to get a master's degree in architecture (and even that's hardly enough time).

Here's a few actual reasons that architecture students choose the minimalistic design process instead of a more elaborated and time-consuming organic/traditional/whatever design process:

- not being properly prepared for the study, having unrealistic expectations
- mixing up "personal growth" - processes with actual design processes
- wasting time in their first (and most important) years, falling into "panic mode" in the later years
- refusing to listen to experienced students, insisting on "finding their own way"
- not reading their contracts, thereby not realizing all the things they are _allowed_ to do
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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Architecture as a Cult Tue May 02, 2017 8:55 am

Quote :
I can agree with some of his criticism, but at the same time he is devaluing himself as an academic. He presents a set of conclusions, but makes no serious attempt to analyze the premises. The full picture is far more complicated, there's a reason why it takes 5 years minimum to get a master's degree in architecture (and even that's hardly enough time).

Here's a few actual reasons that architecture students choose the minimalistic design process instead of a more elaborated and time-consuming organic/traditional/whatever design process:

- not being properly prepared for the study, having unrealistic expectations
- mixing up "personal growth" - processes with actual design processes
- wasting time in their first (and most important) years, falling into "panic mode" in the later years
- refusing to listen to experienced students, insisting on "finding their own way"
- not reading their contracts, thereby not realizing all the things they are _allowed_ to do


That's it?

And you don't think the demand in the market and the fetish for unconventional shockers triggered by the FS. has something to do with 'viable' pursuits?
You are looking at minimalism as an academic discipline, I'm looking at it as an ideological [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] continuing the original subversion of reality begun by J.-Xt.

The words in the manifesto of [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] have their roots in psycho-physical [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrought  by a cynical messianism...

J.G.Ballard wrote:
"The suburbs dream of violence. Asleep in their drowsy villas, sheltered by benevolent shopping malls, they wait patiently for the nightmares that will wake them into a more passionate world . . ." [Kingdom Come]

Are you a postmodernist, afraid, or in denial, of looking at the bigger picture? You do realize its easy to dismissively label anything that disturbs one's favored narrative a 'cult', or a 'conspiracy' or a 'counter-cult'...
What cult are you the leader of, anyway?

Local 'orders' may appear to deny distant entropies.


Satyr wrote:
"Idiot Savants.

A byproduct of increasing specialization.
An individual becomes an "expert" in one field, knowing all there is to know about it (a collector of information he accepts from the "appropriate" sources and regurgitates as a matter of fact); his entire life is taken over, with brief breaks to replenish his energies and to recreate, with keeping up to date with the information he requires to maintain his expert status.

As a consequence his performances in all other areas and his knowledge of any other field of knowledge, suffer.
He may even become socially inept having not cultivated the social aspects of his behavior.
Common terms for such types are: nerd, geek, dweeb etc.

He increasingly becomes dependent upon other experts in other fields, in this way also reinforcing his own status as a specialist they too depend upon.
This increasing interdependence results in the opposite of freedom and uniqueness. His inadequacies in all areas except the area of his expertise makes him more dependent on imitating and simply accepting popular trends or fashions coming from other "specialists" in the fields of behavior or sexualtiy or comedy or charm.
The source leads to a uniformity because it is itself trained by an institution wanting to produce a particular mindset and to reinforce the value of a particular behavior and a particular way of thinking. The institution, after all, wishes to preserve its own relevance and so it both promotes an attitude which does so and it also glorifies those who adhere to its principles.

In the sexual game this type becomes antipathetic to the opposite sex. it lacks the charm and knowhow, the contact with its own essence as male or female to be attractive...yet its social success makes resources accessible to him. What he or she lacks in charm and sexual energy he makes up with social status.
His special skills and techniques make him valuable to the other experts who need him to take care of the aspects of social living they cannot dedicate but little time to, thusly freeing their own time to dedicate to their own specialty.

This codependency is defended vehemently, as the years pass by and more investments in time and resources have been made and more dependencies have been nurtured.
The individual becomes conservative to preserve this inter-relationship making himself viable within it.

If we combine Dysgenics with Socialized/Institutionalized Autism we might begin to understand how intelligence can be declining while most of us would consider it on the rise.
Declining IQ's, focused obsessively will appear as genius in the particular area of interest.

As a side-effect these individuals become less and less able to perceive any grand picture or to challenge the status quo. Their entire intellectual capacity is taken over with the finer details of their craft, submerging themselves in the particular, loosing view of the universal."

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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