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PostSubject: Emotions Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:09 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:10 pm

Quote :
Theory of Emotion


Robert Plutchik's psychoevolutionary theory of emotion is one of the
most influential classification approaches for general emotional
responses. He considered there to be eight primary emotions - anger, fear, sadness, disgust, surprise, anticipation, trust, and joy.
Plutchik proposed that these 'basic' emotions are biologically
primitive and have evolved in order to increase the reproductive fitness
of the animal. Plutchik argues for the primacy of these emotions by
showing each to be the trigger of behaviour with high survival value,
such as the way fear inspires the fight-or-flight response.

Plutchik's psychoevolutionary theory of basic emotions has ten postulates.


  1. The concept of emotion is applicable to all evolutionary levels and applies to animals as well as to humans.
  2. Emotions have an evolutionary history and have evolved various forms of expression in different species.
  3. Emotions served an adaptive role in helping organisms deal with key survival issues posed by the environment.
  4. Despite different forms of expression of emotions in different
    species, there are certain common elements, or prototype patterns, that
    can be identified.
  5. There is a small number of basic, primary, or prototype emotions.
  6. All other emotions are mixed or derivative states; that is, they
    occur as combinations, mixtures, or compounds of the primary emotions.
  7. Primary emotions are hypothethical constructs or idealized states
    whose properties and characteristics can only be inferred from various
    kinds of evidence.
  8. Primary emotions can be conceptualized in terms of pairs of polar opposites.
  9. All emotions vary in their degree of similarity to one another.
  10. Each emotion can exist in varying degrees of intensity or levels of arousal.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:52 pm

Jayne, Julian wrote:
From Fear to Anxiety: In fear, there are a class of stimuli, usually abrupt and menacing, which stop the animal or person from ongoing behavior, provoke flight, and in most social mammals produce specific bodily expressions and internally a rise in the level of catecholamines in the blood, such as adrenaline and noradrenalin. This is the well-known emergency response, which dissipates after a few minutes if the frightening object or situation is removed.
But with consciousness in a modern human being, when we reminisce about previous fears or imagine future ones, fear becomes mixed with the feeling of anxiety. If we wish to make echoes here of the James-Lang theory of the emotions, we would call anxiety the knowledge of our fear…

The temporal element enters to inflate the emotion of fear into a debilitating sensation: the infernal anxiety, sometimes rising to the degree of continuous self-torment.

Jayne, Julian wrote:
From Shame to Guilt: The second biological affect I wish to consider here is shame. Because it is a socially evoked affect, it has rarely been studied experimentally, in either animals or humans. It is a complicated affect whose occasioning stimuli often have to do with maintaining hierarchical relationships in highly social animals, and is the submissive response to rejection by the hierarchical group…
Wrongs, or by another word, sins, or indeed anything that would eject us from society if it were known or seem to eject us from society can be reminisced about out of the past and worried about for the future.
And this we call guilt.

As with anxiety, guilt is the temporal extension of an emotion – in this case the emotion is that of shame.
Fear still peaks from beneath the complexities of the particular, showing us that fear, far from being just another sensations, is the primary sensation; the first in relation to the unknown, chaotic, world.

Jayne, Julian wrote:
From Mating to Sex: The third example I would consider here is the affect of mating. It is similar in some respects to other affects but in other ways quite distinct. Animal studies show that mating, contrary to what the popular mind thinks, is not a necessary drive that build up like hunger or thirst (although it seems so because of consciousness), but an elaborate behavior patterns waiting to be triggered off by very specific stimuli….
But when human beings can be conscious about their mating behavior, can reminisce about it in the past and imagine it in the future, we are in a very different world, indeed, one that seems more familiar to us.
Try to imagine what your ‘sexual life’ would be if you could not fantasize about sex.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:46 am

The senses are outwardly focus. They evolve to deal with otherness.
Therefore, consciousness emerges first, as the awareness of other.

This is used to discriminate using simple binary methods: good/bad...edible/inedible...friend/flow....threat/non-threat.

In my view the first reaction to otherness is a sense of anxiety, for you are at first perceiving an unknown, seeking a pattern to recognize so as to make it comprehensible.
The first emotion is fear/anxiety.

This is why the fight/flight instinctual reaction develops first.

Fear, breeds caution...care.....perception, as one has to look closer, see better, recognize more.
Fear breeds respect, as only what you fear losing forces you to be cautious in dealing with it. To respect another is a result of fearing that he might deny you something: it might be to deny you your well-being, your life or to deny you their support, their teachings, their friendship.
Either way fear underlies respect.
This is why in modern sheltering systems when fear is relatively decreased, disrespect is on the rise.
Without fear there is no self-control, for we attain control of self so as to prevent it from being harmed.

Fear is creative and destructive depending on how it controls the mind.
To be courageous is not to be without fear, this is either a form of psychopathy or a product of ignorance.

Hate/Love then evolve as outcrops of fear.
From there the various combinations of love and hate develop the many other emotions.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:06 am

Inspired by...
Sloterdijk, Peter wrote:
The costs for a one-sided eroticization are high. In reality, the "darkening" of the thymotic dimension makes human behavior incomprehensible.
This is a surprising result, considering this darkening could have only been reached through psychological enlightenment.
Once one subscribes to this mistaken view, it becomes impossible to understand human beings in situations of tension and struggle.
As usual, this failure to understand supposes the failure everywhere, just not in one's own field of vision. The moment that "symptoms" such as pride, indignation, rage, ambition, overzealous self-assertiveness, and acute readiness to fight occur, the member of the thymos-forgetting therapeutic culture retreats into a belief that the aggressive people must be victims of a neurotic complex.
Therapists, according to this assumption, stand in the tradition of Christian moralists.
These moralists speak of the natural disease of self-love as soon as thymotic energies begin to openly reveal themselves. Had Europeans not heard about pride— or likewise rage—from the days of the church fathers, when such impulses would have been taken as signs pointing to the abyss for those cast away?
Indeed, since the time of Gregory I, pride, also known by the name of superbia, is at the top of the list of cardinal sins. Almost two centuries earlier St. Augustine had described pride as the matrix for a revolution against the divine. For the church fathers superbia signified a conscious state of not wanting as the Lord wants (an impulse whose more frequent appearance in monks or civil servants seems understandable).
To claim that pride is the mother of all vices expresses the conviction that human beings have been created to obey, and every inclination that leads out of hierarchical relationships could only mean a step toward corruption.
Sloterdijk connected me to the ancient pagan, Hellenic, appreciation of the other emotion, other than love.
He filled in a few gaps in my thinking concerning Freud, and his eroto-cetric conceptions of the human psyche.
I was always a bit apprehensive about Freud's positions, not because he did not make good points, and not because eros, the sexual instinct/need, is not fundamental in the development of the human psyche - feminization, after all, depends on this hormonal determinism - but because he did not fully explore the underlying factor to sex and eros.
Freud, being a Jew, had a gyno-centric approach, choosing to focus on the erotic, the feminine aspects of the human psyche.
He analyzed, correctly, the forms created by lust/love, and the social instinct this made possible, but neglected the masculine attitude of rage, thymos (thymotic), that explained eros (lust/love) and all the parental, maternal, instincts, but did not shed much light upon the other form of human relating, and how this merged with love to become agape (friendship, camaraderie, rational, lucid connectivity).

To encapsulate:

1- Emotion evolves as an automatic, (re)action, to stimuli.
It's survival advantage is in the small efficiency factor it offers.

2- The senses are outwardly focused, in their starting primitive, original state.
The senses evolved to deal with an alien, world.
Consciousness evolves to direct and to discriminate between different types of otherness.
Differentiation, separation, has already occurred as a preliminary, necessary, first step towards consciousness.
There can be no consciousness without this differentiation, and this distancing, by using, first, a membrane, later to evolve into an exoskeleton or a skin.
Same/Different become assessments of otherness, based on a cognition of patterns.

3- Self-Consciousness is a secondary evolutionary step.
The mind experiences self, as a first step, as an otherness, amongst otherness.
Self-awareness, proceed as a reflection of self, through the other, as a negative:"I am that which I am not; the other is the other which I am not."
The other is a necessary 'other than' against which self discovers itself, as what is different.
Sameness is a secondary effect, produced when the self-conscious mind has reached a certain level of self-knowledge, via this reflection against an otherness.

4- All value judgments are comparisons.
Comparisons based no patterns, and on generalizations and simplifications of otherness, or phenomena - that which appears, is apparent.
A simplification/generalization is a temporal product, where the mind abstracts a phenomenon, by eliminating or reducing the incorporation into mental models of temporal dimensions.
Dimensions are always temporal, as space is a projection of possibility, change.

5- Change is ongoing and requires no effort to sustain itself. It is what we call Flux.
We experience it as change, when we juxtapose mental abstractions becoming aware of divergence (differences).
We also experience it as need/suffering, as the ordering which is what life is, in the disordering, ni the entropy, in the Flux, depends on constant self-maintenance.
growth is the product of excess energies at the emerging unity's disposal, once its self-maintenance requirements have been met.
Creativity, pro-creativity, is a directed activity (willful, even if mostly unconscious), using these excess energies. They are the outcome of strength or power, in relation to otherness, given that all value judgments are comparisons.

6- Because emotions are, in their first, primal stages, outwardly focused, the first emotion is that of anxiety.
The extreme of anxiety is fear.
Anxiety is the first because the world is unknown and mostly threatening to the emerging unity's ordering.
The organism (organizing emerging unity), must appropriate energies, in order to grow in power, in strength: to increase its aggregate energies.

7- Appropriating energies requires a (re)cognition of what is digestible, what can and what cannot be incorporated into the emerging unity's ordering: what is edible and inedible.
The easiest way to appropriate the needed energies is to take them form an otherness, which has already reduced them to a digestible form.
Ergo life feeds on life.
Plants take nutrients at their most basic, form the soil itself, and using the sun's energies.
Nutrients have been biodegraded by microbes into a form the plant can digest.
Higher life forms, such as animals, reduce the cost of doing this work by themselves by taking it form lower lifeforms that have already worked on their behalf: exploitation at its most basic form.

8- Mortality imposes a limit upon life.
To compensate life evolves reproduction. The first forms are division, the creation of clones where some mutations occur due to the effects of environment, and the imperfection of data transference, during cellular division.
The flux takes it toll upon an self-organizing, emergent unity.
Later heterosexual reproduction develops, as a superior method. It is superior because it merges, through DNA splicing, two different organisms, to deal with environmental changes.
Fitness is the measure of the organism's potential within a given environment.
Reproduction is a compensation for individual limits, imposed upon the organism, therefore, fitness also acquires the standard of reproduction; sexual potency, virility, how genetically prolific an organism is.

9- Heterosexual reproductive strategies evolved specialized roles, so as to be more effective and efficient. Each reproductive role evolves, in time, the necessary physical and mental attributes to carry out this role.
Sexual fitness is a measure of this effectiveness.
Sexual mutations that inhibit or reduce, to whatever degree, this effectiveness are unfit.

10- Due to a limit imposed upon reproduction my mechanism: the issue of waist to hip ratios, or how large an organism can become, within a given environment, a further sophistication ni the reproductive method evolves:
The female expels the fetus before it is fully mature, thusly placing gestation outside the womb, reducing the size of the required womb, for larger brained organisms.
The female must acquire further specialized psychosomatic attributes to make this possible.
The maternal instinct evolves (imprinting), and dependence increases, as the female now becomes increasing dependence on others for support.
Brain sizes are also limited by the head to body mass ration, as the organism must continue to be able to sustain itself, physically, without being overly inhibited by a large cranium - also the factor of balance, physical symmetry (beauty), comes into play.

11- The aforementioned anxiety, fear, having offered the advantage of more efficient fight/flight (re)action times, must now be placated, and repressed, so as to make heterosexual reproduction possible.
Stress is a preparatory mode, where the organism collects and holds its aggregate energies on standby, preparing for a fight or for a flight - fleeing is always the more desirable option.
Lust, as a seasonal, overcoming of the fight/flight stress, deals with anxiety by inebriating the brain, putting it in a state of frenzy.
A madness.
Lust evolves out of the primal need to feed. It maintains many of the attributes of hunting and feeding.
Biting, humping, later kissing, are all modes of feeding.

12- Weaker organisms congregate to take advantage of the effects of confusion large numbers have on predators.
Predators must differentiate and isolate, in order to prey upon an otherness.
They must recognize a singular emerging unity, and its digestible energies, from a background of otherness.
Through trial and error, natural selection, methods, schooling, and in birds flocking, evolves.
From this social behavior begins to evolve, in time, and after generations of natural selection, establishing the behavior as advantageous.
This pooling of resources eventually leads to inter-dependencies, enabling specialization (focus of roles, activities), which makes the evolution of larger brains possible.

13- Lust evolves into love.
The inebriating sensation becomes longer term and so loses some of its frenzied immediacy.
This makes cooperative unities possible.
The ephemeral imprinting becomes a long term association, which depends on the selective appreciation of sameness, and the disregard for differences.
The madness turns into a form of blindness, or compartmentalization.
Different standards used to appreciate otherness, as that belonging outside a group, and otherness, as that belonging inside a group. The shift is one of priority. In the first case difference precedes the appreciation of sameness; in the second the sameness is what is placed first, after the initial difference is establishes and recognized.
Much later, and within the contexts of memes, this may evolve into the nihilistic meme.

14- Love becomes paramount tot he survival of the individual organism, still perceiving self as distinct.
It alter evolves into a Deity, a God.
In its secular form it is worshiped as an ideal.
it is the bonding glue offering the individual higher survival returns, and it becomes stronger as the individual slowly the capacity to survive on its own.
The more dependent the individual (females, children, weaker males) the stronger the need to sustain love as an overpowering virtue, prohibiting internal strife.
Imprinting now becomes a projection of self-consciousness. the individual associates self, identity, ego, with an abstraction.
First it is the tribe, the small group sharing blood, genes. The shared genes reinforce bonding.
Later, with the emergence of larger grouping, the identifier must be abstracted into something beyond the perceived. Nation, ideology, God, are projections of this all-encompassing, identity, resulting in an internal uniformity.
the individual now places self outside himself. The schizophrenic phenomenon increases as this separation of self from otherness becomes the foundation for projecting consciousness outside the brain that makes it possible, and identity as this idea belonging outside the emergent unity's will.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:33 am

15- Eros, the amalgamation of lust/love, the maternal imprinting, associating self with other, the evolved dependence, now turned into a survival need, becomes central to the internal structures of the organism's world-view.
It has now ceased being an organism, and is part of a super-organism.  
Anything that threatens its harmoniums participation within this 'super' grouping, this 'υπερ' (super, for, beyond), is hated.
Hate being the other reaction to the threatening otherness. That which refuses or is unable to incorporate within the communal identity, accepting the communal values as self-evident and mystifying them to make them appear to be more than what they are, is perceived as a threat.
The feeding factor becomes evident.
When an organism cannot incorporate the energies into its becoming, into is emerging unity, it dispels them as toxic waste, or it avoids them as inedible, unusable.
A cancerous cell is a cell that has lost its harmony with the body. I is now a threat, because it challenges the body's establishes ordering.
Hate, anger, are nonreactive to this alien, indigestible, usefulness and threatening otherness.

16- Thymos, the antithesis to the binding erotic, the open to fertilization erotic, is the other reaction to otherness.  
Rage is part of the thymotic reaction. It is a more masculine and discriminating reaction.
Rage against the toxic otherness, is a way of discriminating against what is other than self.
Here, a more precise, more sophisticated, identity is required.
The more of self that you know that more precise your conceptions of sameness become.
Consciousness is discrimination. To be aware is to be aware of divergence, of differentiation.
Sameness comes alter, when awareness of self, via the other, is established. the more precise your awareness of other becomes, the more precision your self-awareness acquires. You become more self-conscious.

17- Self-awareness, knowing yourself, is knowing your past.
To know your past is to hold in your memory, as much of what participates in your presence, your appearance, as possible.
The more of this past you hold in your awareness, your memory, and the more not-compromised this data is by emotion, by self-serving, self-flattering, survival concerns, it is all the more precise your self-awareness becomes.
The more precise this self-awareness becomes all the more sophisticated your perception of sameness becomes.
Your dimensional horizon expands and deepens. you can incorporate into your judgments more information, coming from longer more distant time-periods.
You become more conscious, meaning more discriminating. The more precise, focused, your awareness of sameness becomes, the bigger your perception of differences becomes.
Now you can see differences, distinguishing self from other, where before you saw uniformity.

18-  Thymos is related to the Heroic man.
A man reacts to otherness not with complacent acceptance, but with rage. he fights.
To fight he must understand the other, not to feel sympathy, compassion, but so as to combat, and expel.
For instance, if I eat food which includes toxic, to me, elements, and I am unaware of them, I cannot sense them, I am unconscious of them, I devour the food. If I can sense the toxins, smell them, taste them, I expel the food in disgust.
I am enraged by their presence in my food.
My rage turns to a desire to prevent them from entering my food again, which requires of me to understand how and why these toxins were there to begin with.  
I wish to make my food ideal ...to purge it of toxins and elements which I do not want, or refuse to integrate into my becoming.

The anger is visceral, primal, and like lust/love it can become destructive if it remains uncontrolled and not directed creatively, procreatively.  

19- A mind identifies with what most resembles itself, or its consciousness of self.
It is a recognition of the pitiful in one's self, directed towards another. To identify, exclusively, with the sheep rather than the wolf, devouring the sheep to survive, is to see one's self as the victim rather than the survivor.
one projects upon the otherness what he recognizes as the most fundamental in one's self.
Empathy does not automatically lead to sympathy; not unless eroticism is the core of your becoming.
Empathy can just as much lead to antipathy, when thymos is still strong in you.

20- Loss of rage is what results in this apathy, this prevailing erotic focus.
To not wish to overcome, but to belong to; to not wish to replace, to reject, but to incorporate with.
Boys, in particular, have become dull.
They are no longer passionately enraged. They are always erotically attracted, preoccupied, dominated by their feminine nature.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:36 pm

Emotions being that nexus between mind/body, a proto-consciousness developing some automatic responses towards the unknown world, fear would be the natural first, and most necessary emotion.
It emerges as a freezing, gathering energies as the senses explore the situation further.
These energies are that fight/flight response, with the preferred one being flight given the risks and the element of ignorance concerning what the other is.

Emotions could not have preceded the evolution of a mere sophisticated neural network, nor the later to develop neurological hub we call brain.

-----------------------

Nature would always favor on the side of caution, and erring on the side of the negative.
Thymos, anger, and tis extreme rage, must have evolved later when the awareness increased, understanding was established and the organism began to recognize patterns and to be confident of its own perceptions.
Anger, when not forced on by having the opponent stripped of options – a desperate heightened state of activity fueled by adrenaline – could only have been the outcome of the sexual practice of make competitive mating.

-----------------------

Emotion, from a metaphysical standpoint, is a (re)action to the absence of an absolute – a void.
A void in knowledge, producing anxiety; a void in strength, creating insecurity; a void in control, creating fear and anger; a void in possession, creating envy; a potential void, reacted to as respect, humility, trying to maintain contact.

If need, with the extreme of suffering is the sensation of existing, then emotion is the next evolutionary step: the feeling of the absence creating an automatic (re)action in the central neural hub, the brain.
The body’s internal sensations, its organic (inter)actions, transmitted, and interpreted as sensation, then evolving into feelings, in relation to external stimulations.
This evolution from sensing/sensation to feeling/emotion represents the evolution from simple organisms to more sophisticated, self-organizing organisms with a more complex neurological network and with established, with trial and error over time, automatic responses to particular sensual stimulations.


A masculine, sexually based, (re)action to a threat not on the individual but upon his control, his domain.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:48 pm

Thymos, anger, and its extreme rage, must have evolved later when the awareness increased, understanding was established and the organism began to recognize patterns and to be confident of its own perceptions.
Anger, when not forced on by having the opponent stripped of options – a desperate heightened state of activity fueled by adrenaline – could only have been the outcome of the sexual practice of make competitive mating.

A masculine, sexually based, (re)action to a threat not on the individual but upon his control, his domain; thymos, with its extreme rage, will mostly be found in males, males who have lost or are in the process of losing something valuable, something they identity with on the primal, level.

A woman may be inspired towards rage by something immediate, something threatening in her immediate temporal vicinity.
A male may feel it as a low-level rage, building up, as an approaching loss is perceived on his longer perceptual-event-horizon.
His thymos will be like the slow, repetitive, rhythmic beat of a drum; a reverberating hum coming from the bowels of the earth.

A woman shrieks, a man growls.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:33 am

One cannot speak of an emotion before a sophisticated nervous system is in place.
Up until that point we can only speak of sensation, perception resulting in an automatic, response which is naturally selected as the most effective, and efficient response to the particular stimuli.
Existence is change, constant (inter)activity, Flux, tending towards disorder, entropy, chaos.
At this point we cannot make any assumptions about any other dimensional factors, or states where entropy is also increasing, first because it is not within the contexts of the phenomenon we call life – life being a constant ordering, and an emerging, forever incomplete, imperfect, unity – and second because the assumption is meant to enclose reality within a unifying abstraction, balance it out, by simplifying and generalizing it to the point of thingness – this is an intellectual need facilitating understanding.
Life is an ordering within this disordering.
It senses this disordering as need/suffering, and resists it.
Life relates to reality in an antagonistic stance.

Life becomes increasingly possible within a reality of expanding possibilities, space-time, where as one approaches the infinite, the absolute, uniformity of possibility, entails the leveling of probabilities towards an absolute infinite possibility. Within this reality life becomes increasingly possible as one approaches the infinite, absolute, randomness, and is a (re)action to this approach.
As such, life can only emerge, as an ordering, within the state of entropy.

Once this and all its implications is understood and taken into consideration, we can understand why lust, this feeding desire evolving into a sexual need, evolves at all.
Mortality imposes its necessity, and to deal with the already evolved self-maintaining methods, it must place the organism in a state of frenzy: a seasonal, hormonally produced, madness.
The consequences of this condition, the offspring, then necessitate further adaptations of the pre-exiting methods. Lust, evolved from feeding, now evolves further into a bonding, imprinting, method, making weaning outside the body possible.
This parental bonding with a replicant sharing in 50% of the parent’s DNA, then evolves further into a social method of ensuring pooling, synergy, and then cooperative survival strategies.
The organism, the self-organizing, separating from otherness, emergent unity, evolves from a sensing into an emoting creature.

This self-ordering is what we call self-love.
Love is the emotional experience of ordering. But before ordering can be possible a detachment, a pushing away, a rejection of disordering, must take place.
The organism detaches, excludes, pushes away, disordering, consolidating tis ordering processes, and in time evolving into a sophisticated organism.
The erotic factor is made possible by the thymotic factor.
Both are never complete but feed off of each other.
We can think of the erotic as this increasingly uniforming resistance to the increasing entropy: a black hole sucking all into its premises so as to assimilate the energies it requires to resist and to maintain it. It grows in relation to the increasing entropy which always remains ahead of it; otherwise space/time would end.
No matter how much ordering occurs disordering will always be more, resulting in this steady decline of matter/energy(patterns of ordering), towards a uniformity of random possibility(expansion of space/time).
To put it more abstractly, as possibility expands, and is made uniform, probability decreases within it: patterns begin to disappear, which is another way of saying that randomness (chaos) is increasing.
This increasing uniformity of the possible, make the emergence of new explosion of near-absolute order possible, such as the one we claim is responsible for our universe.

Therefore, the sensation of increasing entropy, is what we call need, and when left unsatisfied for a period of time (increasing its disorder), it is experienced as suffering, pain etc.
To compensate in a state where entropy is increasing exponentially any order which has now become conscious must, to preserve itself, assimilate larger energies to first deal with the consequences of entropic friction upon its emerging unity, and then to grow so as to better deal with the increase.
This assimilation and consolidation of order, is a form of feeding, and it explains why humanity is now being leveled down, to better assimilate the particular organism within any emerging larger unity (SuperOrganism), and to take advantage of the benefits of synergy which a more uniform internal structure produces.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:03 am

From the above we can better understand how the nihilistic inversion occurred, and how fear became an evil, with hatred being its thymotic expression, whereas love became a virtue, the sacred unifying eroticism, promoted by Jews, as the west’s nihilistic cult, as the all-encompassing, uniforming, solution to the human condition.
For the nihilist reality, the state of increasing chaos is the negative, the nil.
To this they posit their positive nihilism, which is this absolute order, either projected as a beyond space/time, and, therefore, unaffected by the paradigm of the real, or as a coming future, placing their hopes on the inevitable.
The naturally occurring increasing disorder is surrendered to by projecting as its final destination, its end, its teleos, its future immanent state, a “higher” order, where assimilation, being consumed, devoured by this ordering reaction to it, finally reaches its apex as a no-thing.
For the positive nihilist any resistance to this increasing entropy which occurs without any effort required whereas resisting it demands an effort is ridiculous, comical, wasted effort. For him surrendering to the flow of time is not only inevitable but a virtue; disappearing as an identity, an emerging ordering, unity, is the preferred. Ergo we have all these religions preaching about the virtue of selflessness, egoless passivity to the status quo of increasing disorder. The only effort requires is a twist in perception, made feasible by the absence of an absolute.
In this case the absence of absolute knowledge, and certainty, is reason enough to equate all perceptions of reality, further degrading the emergence of the unity, and its resistance, using consciousness.
The twist of perception is but a spin-doctoring, where the same process is turned into the opposite of what it is.  
Now the process towards entropy, towards chaos, can be projected as a towards a higher form of order.

To achieve this twist two things must occur:

1- Sensation, awareness must be denied relevance, making the need/suffering of increasing entropy into an illusion easily avoided once total surrender to the coming future (accepting Jesus into your heart, letting go of ego etc.) is accepted. The feminine psyche.

2- In the place of perception sensation the word must erected. The word with its plasticity can now be used to define the sensation as its opposite. Reality is the negative rather than what makes life possible, and so rejecting reality, and how one experiences it, is the positive. The perceived is superficial, an illusion, whereas what is not perceived, what is presumed, is the positive. Emoting is now the more lucid, form of reasoning – the master of it is the enlightened one

Once emoting has been turned into a higher form of reasoning, the sensation, having evolved into the emotion, can be turned into the goal, the state of grace, the coming Utopia, the ideal.
One feels the truth, and since the mind is a tool evolved to deal with necessity, the need to avoid need/suffering, to nip it before it increases to an unbearable point, is the seductive part.
Reason be damned!!!
The rational argument is the pessimistic one, if it does not feed into the lust/love pooling of energies, from where all draw sustenance.
The one who will not share his energies is the selfish one, the hating one, the one who is ill.                                

From a more selective practice of lusting/loving we come to the present state of nihilistic dis-ease, where uniformity requires the non-discriminating donation of one’s self to the community, the communal feeding table.
One must love all, and fuck anything; otherwise he can be accused of egotistically withholding his own aggregate energies from the community banquet.                            

Illness and health are also inverted, along with the concept of identity.
When one feeds on an animal or plant, one destroys its identity, cuts it apart, grinds it into a uniform pulp and digests it.
The individual must be digested and assimilated into this SuperOrganic ordering.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:13 am

Lust is the erotic need to feed or feed into, be devoured by, order.
It is erotic and feminine in nature.
Love is how this organism makes the sensation of being devoured more easy to tolerate. As an organism is ripped apart by a predator it goes into a self-induced state of detachment, a state of shock. Need/suffering/pain subsides.
Perhaps euphoria takes over, as the brain is flooded with the chemical narcotics it requires to cope.
For the one feeding the condition becomes this frenzied orgiastic condition: the joy of feeding, assimilating …the sensation of invigorating power flooding the brain.

Positive nihilism, is this state of euphoria.
The act of being devoured by a stronger organism, of being ripped to shreds and assimilated into a another ordering, this loss of self, is experienced with that same detachment, and self-induced shock as would the prey being eaten alive by a predator.

Fever is how the organism experiences itself dying slowly, being eaten alive from within by a virus.
A last ditch effort to rid itself of the intruding organism, imposing itself upon the existing ordering.
The brain goes into delirium. It loses contact with the environment. It goes inward, reliving its past, images, feelings, sensations, flooding the cerebral cortex.
It is dying, and may not even know it.
Nihilsim is for the western, Aruan, culture, such a consumnig virus.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:12 am

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:47 am

My positions on emotion.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:19 am

NEED > The sensation of absence, of lack.
The absence is of the absolute.
Need is how the organism experiences existence.
The absolute becomes this projected finality to its need/suffering.
It may take the form of a positive (God, Order, One, 1), or the form of a negative (Emptiness, Chaos, Disorder, 0).
In both cases the projected absolute is the nullification of what exists and what makes existence possible.
Infinite divisibility is an indication that the absolute is non-existent ...it is the very definition of non-existence.

If left unsatisfied this need increases in degree and becomes discomfort > PAIN/SUFFERING.
PLEASURE > is the ephemeral satisfaction on need, which does not go away but drops to a level where it fades from consciousness.

The organism, the self-organizing emergent, yet incomplete, unity, deals with this constant need with automatic processes.
These are self-maintaining, processes required to preserve the self-organizing incomplete unity.
All excess energies are directed towards growth, or a movement towards.

A nervous system evolves to facilitate both this self-maintenance, by directing energies more efficiently, and this movement towards an object/objective, which is always a promising satisfaction of a NEED, experienced as a pleasing relief from this need/suffering.

The organism also evolves other mechanisms such as the stomach where certain basic needs can be constantly satisfied, from a storage of energies. The need for nutrients does not disappear, ti simply feeds off of the body's stores, and the organism does not have to feel this particular need, until the stores are empty. The mind is a tool for meeting needs and so it then directs itself to the next need which is pressing.

The brain evolves in sophistication where it can now anticipate this need/suffering, and prepare for it. this, if successful, releases the mind form its original purpose and the result in ennui ...the bane of being released from need.
Introspection ensues...the mind begins to feed on itself by questioning its own purpose.
To deal with this it projects a new purpose, it creates a new object/objective - idealism is born.  

Fear is the first reaction to the unknown, and to the prospect of not satisfying needs.
an infantile mind, one sheltered and who is provided for - its needs met from an other's interventions - will live in perpetual bliss.
It lacks the experience of having to meet its own needs, before they become bearable - it lacks self-reliance.
It's needs are continuously met, and so it begins to feel indestructible, fearless, arrogant, full of expectations.

The senses did not just evolve for no reason. They offered an advantage to the organism - they helped it direct itself towards the satisfaction of its needs.
This is shy sensation evolves into consciousness, where the sense organs are outwardly focused. the primitive mind has no capacity to become bored or to introspect. It is consciousness in its purity.
Emotion is this connecting point between the already evolved automatic processes and the neurological system, with the brain being the central hub.
They are automatic, visceral, (re)actions to stimuli...as these have evolved over time. This can be manipulated and the brain can be trained to react automatically to words, to artificially induced stimulation...Pavlovian effect.  

Fear being the most primal, the most necessary, emotion, which cautions a brain in relation to a stimulation, and because the senses begin by being outwardly focused and only later evolve self-consciousnesses, through this reflection of self via an other, the automatic emotion of fear, in relation to an unknown world, must evolve first...as a method of self-preservation.

It is only later, on the evolutionary timescales, that more sophisticated methods of survival evolve. Social behaviour is easily achieved in organisms with unsophisticated neurological systems (ants, bees) and tiny brains...but with larger brained species that have experienced evolution as individual organisms before their inability to cope forced a social adaptation, the already developed individual mechanisms for self-preservation must be dealt with so as to make cooperative strategies possible.

Lust is the preliminary form of this compensating method. It uses a kind of paroxysm, using hormones.
The organism can behave in ways that contradict is self-preserving processes. It is essentially mad with lust.
Love is a further adaptation of this hormonal effect. It uses imprinting, and focuses on similarities, ignoring divergences, so as to bond individual organisms into a cooperative unity.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:13 am

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Love being the emotion of belonging: accepting, tolerating, assimilating and being assimilated.


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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:45 am

Anxiety is a lower grade of fear; it is fear before it has risen to the level of an overwhelming sensation.

Anxiety is the slow accumulation of stress, in preparation for the fight/flight mechanism.
It is the preparation, the psychological projection of the coming necessity.

Anxiety is the "what if" in a brain which can project beyond the immediate time/space.

It is, therefore, always a (re)action to an impending need which must be satisfied before it rises to the level of suffering/pain.

--------------------

Because less sophisticated organisms cannot perceived anything beyond a particular immediacy, they function (reactively) within specific time/space boundaries.
For them anxiety is not a factor because they cannot project possibilities beyond this immediacy. they exist as (re)active organisms.

It is only when a brain has reached a certain level of sophistication that it can project beyond the immediate and experience anxiety concerning the non-immediate, yet possible.
For a conciousness who can exist outside shallow time/space boundaries, the potential for anxiety and fear, increases in relation to its understanding.

The method of acceptance, can offer a relief.
Anxiety is decreased when mortality loses its negativity.

But most rely on the soothing embrace of togetherness, huddling as one, against the immanent.
This dependence on an other decreases the anxiety, as the fulfilment of the need one feels anxious about, is taken for granted.
The burden of feeding needs is shared, reducing the stress, on the individual.
Love, as this faith on the other, this bonding produced by a form of self-inebriation, self-repression, is the antidote, on a primitive level, of anxiety and fear.

The acceptance method is only possible for a very few.

As such, fear becomes an inhibitor of intelligence.
The level of processing potential of the brain can be reduced by the need to cope with anxiety, and fear.
The most intelligent minds can, therefore, fall into the simplest errors because their awareness exposes them to levels of anxiety producing possibilities they cannot fully deal with.
The brain must protect itself, and so it surrenders to the simple, the mundane, the absurd, to protect itself from a threatening realization.





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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:09 am

Ok, so I think I'm starting to understand you. Took me long enough.

So I'm not here in bad faith, and it's up to you if you want to respond.

I just want to communicate.

Sorry if I pissed you off.

-----

I read the encapsulation thread up until emotions, and you expressed your position very concisely so it was easy for me to digest. (Note: I didn't read this thread)

Here's my response:

Satyr wrote:
Fear: Fear is the primary emotion simply because it is the emotion which best serves an organism which has just become conscious.

I do not believe we live in an environment that is truly threatening as it was in the past.

Since we have knowledge of our environment, internally and externally, we can overcome our fear reaction with knowledge, will and awareness.

I say we do not need to feel fear anymore, because there aren't all these new unknown variables jumping into the equation. It's all mutations of the present, reactions to the present.

Just as a person may be instinctually afraid of spiders or heights, if one understands the threat of these, one needn't feel fear any longer. Rather, one can be cautious and understanding of the situation.

One can outgrow these fears, and any other fear, as a means of efficiency. Why is it efficient? Because fear limits us and also drains our energy.

Now, if we have consciously overcame our fears, then one doesn't need love to placate fear. If love is perpetuated after one has overcame their fears consciously, then that love is not a reaction to fear, rather, an embrace of whatever other positive affects love has.

I put it to you that love needn't and isn't a reaction of fear within all people. I admit there are many who do use love in this way, but it isn't a given.

Like fear, love could be overcome consciously, and we could instead rationally choose what's best for our health and survival, but why would we want to overcome love?

It's very pleasant and satisfying, also a healthy motivation for progress.

What are you thoughts in regards to what I've said?

I'm genuinely curious.
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:17 am

Rolling Eyes 

Never change, boy.
I want you to remain exactly as you are...

More evidence that philosophy, the engagement of reality, the world, as it is, is not for everyone.
Most come to philosophy seeking another drug to numb themselves with...other use it to find what they need: sex, love, escape...an excuse.

They recoil from any contact outside the institutionalized, controlled, fabricated, man-made artifices they grew up within and cannot question because they fear going insane, or, worse, they fear the consequences outside of their man-made artifices - outside of their predictable, safe, premises.  

Ignorance is bliss, my fearless champion of luuuuuuuuuv.
Hugs and kisses.

p.s. A barn is, for the domesticated cow, a safe, predictable, envirnment.
The cow pays in ways she cannot understand for circumstances she was born within and raised in, and now cannot do without.
In this contained, externally controlled, envirnment, she is taken care of, protected, soothed.
The price for this comfort is one she can never fully appreciate, because she knows nothing else.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:15 pm

The reason why consciousness evolves is to gain the advantage foresight, through the perception of patterns, it provides...and the efficiency in (re)activity it then results in.

In excess conciousness can become detrimental to action or to adaptation, because it exposes the mind to possibilities it may not be able to tolerate or compensate for.

There are two ways this excess can be produced:

1- The most rare kind is that excess produces by an abundance of brain-power - what is left-over when the organism's needs are taken care of.

2- The most common is the result of sheltering, as is found in modern systems, where even a simple mind can be protected from care, producing an artificially based excess of brain-power.

This also results in the illusion of parity, as the system offers enough sheltering making anything beyond institutional demands superfluous, particularly when it is strictly regulated.

This excess brain-power, produced by leisure turns the brain inward, sometimes questioning self, asking for a motive, a reason, a purpose, or it turns it outwards, exposing it to possibilities it would not have had the time to perceive without the sheltering effect of institutionalized, modern living.

Most brains cannot deal with what they are faced with.
The relationship of madness and genius, or reduced birth rates due to exposure to knowledge, is revealed, but what is explained further is why emotion acts as a buffer between an intolerant, fragile mind, and a reality it cannot cope with, and why religion, and nihilism, in general, become massive movements , spreading within the bourgeoisie and the leisure classes.

Distraction, using entertainment, computer realities, sporting events, drugs etc. are another way of sedating these liberated energies.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:34 pm

Satyr wrote:
 Rolling Eyes

Right back at ya

-----

If anyone out there feels like responding to my points, please feel welcome.

Unless, of course, you don't want to upset your pal Satyr.
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:54 pm

Joe Schmoe wrote:
Satyr wrote:
 Rolling Eyes

Right back at ya

-----

If anyone out there feels like responding to my points, please feel welcome.

Unless, of course, you don't want to upset your pal Satyr.
What is upsetting is an emotional wreck, who can't understand shit, repeating the same cultural bullshit he was baby-fed, once upon a time.
And the only reason it is upsetting, because nobody gives a shit what a moron ever thinks, is that this same retard has been given rights and she votes.

If, said retard, can reread her own post and find how embarrassingly stupid it is, and why it is so, she gets a lollipop, from the king himself.

Please, someone, anyone, take this retard off my hands...I beg you.


Loved the "We no longer need to fear because we live in a sheltered, protected, uniform, environment, and so fear is a already unnecessary" bit.

If that's not infantile, then give me a bib, I need to suck on a pacifier and call it healthy, nutritional, sustenance?

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:28 pm

Who but a sheltered, pampered, spoiled, brat would consider fear passée, out of style, outdated?
Who but a mind suffering from this...

Insecurity:
An intuited sense of weakness in relation to otherness.

In modern controlled environments this can become the fear of not being good enough to belong to the group.
An anxiety, reaching the level of fear, at the thought of not meeting an other's expectations or his/her standards...this is social insecurity.

Insecurity is essentially the fear of being denied, by the one you are dependent upon, what you most value, mostly due to the absence of alternatives.
The sexually insecure fears being rejected because his/her sexual options are limited if not restricted to a singular source.  

Social Awkwardness, Social Ineptness:
Usually the produce of extreme self-consciousness, and an absence of confidence resulting in a freezing-up, a graceless behaviour, or in anti-social behaviour.
The fear of being judged negatively lies at the root of this fear.

Two factors:
1- An intuition based on a subconscious comparison of self in other, resulting in a negative evaluation, now projected as a possible judgement or one own exposure as what one fears or knows one is.
2- A overstated dependence on others and their opinions.
This usually stems form a sexual impulse to be judged, positively, by females so as to be included in the pool of the possible.  

Comfort, sheltering, carelessness is a form of dependence...a non self-reliance.
Fear of the unknown or what lies outside one's experiential data base, is now transferred to a fear, heightened anxiety, concerning the known, and what lies within one's experiential data base.
One may deny nature, the past, or what is not within the artifices he has become accustomed to, but, nevertheless, these factor into his self-evaluations, on a subconscious level, becoming a form of neurosis.

A neurosis is usually a result of something being repressed or something so overwhelming that one tries to hide it, deny it. The neurotic experiences the neurosis on a subconscious level, usually in fits or unexplained panic attacks or nightmares with inexplicable bizarre imagery.
With humans, particularly the modern kind with their contrived monogamy their mythologies concerning lust/love and their socialized emasculation, neurosis becomes a norm shared by the majority.
Ways of coping are drug use, alcohol, escapism in pop-culture, compartmentalization, selective reasoning ( a form of self hypnosis), and, of course, the available social and spiritual beliefs which preach a form of nihilistic denial.      

Let us not forget the by-products of [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Retard refers to stunted development...domestication is just that...ergo when I call someone a "retard," I do not do it merely for effect.

In sheltering environments where all is predictable and taken for granted, the only source of anxiety, other than basic self-maintenance (work, career, earnings production, consuming levels compared to an average etc.), is sexuality.
The preoccupation with being included hides a preoccupation with being excluded from the gene pool: not being accepted, loved, acknowledged, appreciated in a way that would satisfy one's own genetic needs.

So much for fearlessness for the average sheltered stunted mind...
When you are taken care of, have been raised in a stable, predictable, controlled envirnment, where you take things for granted, like the moron above, then the anxiety/fear is transferred to what provides you with this certainty, safety, comfort.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:55 pm

Reality is predictable.

Perhaps Satyr is in constant state of surprise, shock and inevitably fear when he engages with his environment. If anything, this is his own retardation.

Let me clue you in, Satyr.

It's the same shit, repeating itself. New variations of the same basic structures. Just like a song. It's a new composition, of the same old things.

I'm curious about what you think justifies fear in your environment. What is all the information that scares you?

Life's predictable. It repeats. You must be dazzled by the lights or something.

It's OK. I forgive you. My initial lack of respect for you, is continually confirmed.

----

Since I'm confident Satyr has nothing to contribute, again, I invite anyone else to share their interpretations, thoughts or feedback.
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:50 pm

On a positive note we learn that the world is predictable...ergo next time you wish to invest, or prepare for a hurricane, or a meteorite, or anything, look up the turd above.
His world is so predictably simple, being that he loves living in a contrived order, and a fantasy universe, he then worships, that he has grown to confuse reality for human constructs.
When he thinks world, he thinks earth, mankind.
When this moron thinks nature, it is always about humanity.

We can safely assume that even in the area of humanity his naivete only exposes an inability to predict anything about human beings who have not been sufficiently trained to become his brand of predictable, and so he relies on the "thuo shalt not" and the social rules, and the cultural norms to, at least, offer him some comforting repetitive, regimentation, rendering the other a predictable harmless entity he is confident is hiding nothing from him.
But, come to think of it, why would a moron, like this care, what the other is truly thinking, when all he cares is that the other remains true to the social contract and he adhered to the rules and he pretends he respects this turd, even if he may think he is a a stunted imbecile, as he smiles and tells him how "nice" he is.

See, this turd confuses knowledge for consistency.
He knows what a tornado is, and in his tiny mind he can predict one....Seen that, done that...wind, gusting, yadda-yadda-yadda....old shit.
For this turd, though he may claim he is complex, men are also predictable because they've been indoctrinated, they pretend, they lie, they say one thing and do something else.
The turd needs certainty, and if being simpler than what he is is what it takes to live in certainty, then so be it...he will be proud to be simple.

No, he is not retarded...he is...spaced-out...no...no...he is special.


-----------------------------------

The typical turd confuses what IS most probable with what he wishes were absolutely so, and he then completes his error by presuming that philosophy, the exploration of what the world is like, is always about politics, the exploration of what is best for man.

As a result the typical moron confuses human interests for human awareness, and succumbs to the easy solution of then presuming that how the world is will always correspond to how (s)he, as a representation of the typical human, thinks or hopes the world should be, or could be.
His presumption of first thinking that the world cares about some cowardly, imbecile, and that secondly that he being part of the mediocre, the average, makes him the last word in what should be, makes him a victim of his own stupidity.

At the extreme, the common modern coward and hypocrite will find any honest exploration of reality, nature, the world, so devastating, that he will invent, imagine, a fantastic alternative to it.

Take the other turd in the Dungeon - you know which one I mean - and his right/left political dichotomies.
For this imbecile this binary division simply indicates two different methods of protecting self-interests.
For this turd the idea of believing something is more probably true than not, without it being beneficial to the thinker, is something he cannot grasp.

The moment he hears any proposition, any position, he's taking himself, and the majority he "luves" as an example, and assumes that the other must be gaining something from the position...otherwise why think it is more probably fact, right?
Every idea becomes, for this moron, a battle over whose interests will prevail...not which opinion is more closer to the truth, but which position is better from an emotional, or humanitarian, or his own needs, point of view.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:22 pm

Joe Schmoe wrote:
I invite anyone else to share their interpretations, thoughts or feedback.

Too fixated on these basic concepts; perhaps further explore upon them if you will. I mainly feel greed and disgust, are those sentiments not mixtures in varying degrees of love/fear? They all relate to each other.

There's no either or within these emotions, although if I had to guess I'd say you have an internalized fear of rejection, then sub-consciously deal with it through externalizing universal love. This is a short lived solution, only greatness is deserving of love, you know this.

The mind is mighty good at deceiving itself, defense mechanisms intent on sparing the burden knowing thy self is your problem. I see you as a lesser being that in most probability will never better itself. See -- disgust.




(Apologies for further cluttering this thread.)
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:06 pm

At ILP,

I have spoken of my personal conditions. I am fully aware of them and confronting them and their implications.

I have diagnosed myself without any input by fucksticks like Satyr.

Satyr, in order to feign insight, reads ILP, sees my posts, repeats them back to me and gives the impression to the rest of this delusional forum that he's OK at reading people.

I've already spoken about the benefits of love, and Satyr has said the exact same reason. Love is efficient, encourages cooperation and is a motivation.

I haven't got all this shit hiding away from my awareness, it's right at the front of my consciousness.

If you feel disgust about a healthy, natural aspect of human beings, you're disgusted at yourself. I pity you for that.

Neither of you have made any justification for why one ought feel, perpetuate, or preserve fear in our current environment, merely tried to attack me on a personal level, which is bad faith 101.

I assume it's because neither of you retards have a valid response for being cowards. Except perhaps, you're not strong enough to be vulnerable.

At ILP, I speak about not need confidence, about taking risks. That knowledge is not necessary for progress.

Satyr has been repeating his bullshit for years, and where has it got him? Fuck all. He's a coward that lives in shadows and claims to be a truth seeker as he begs for others to join his alleyway gang. If any adversity comes, he and his minions can swarm and then boast strength and courage.

Satyr, your gonna fuck up your kids life, and if he's got your shitty blood in him, he probably deserves it. It's in the interest of progress that shits like you perish in isolation.

Fight the good fight, wise Satyr, you're so very brave and truthful.

You're a joke.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:25 pm

Deflecting and projecting. It's all becoming clear as daylight. Thanks for adding fuel to my theory.
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:32 pm

Justify why fear is necessary, ought be perpetuated and preserved in our current environment.

Defend the assertions.
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:53 pm

I'm talking in a more descriptive sense, in an attempt to realize objective reality. No need in prescriptively justifying anything, that's what you are here for. You return here due to inner doughts; to defensively reinforce your self no matter how silly it seems to others, you will rationalize it all. So there's no convincing is there, not in your mindset.


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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:58 pm

You can't answer.

Didn't think so.

Go fuck yourself.

Anyone else out there got a justification?
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:26 pm

There Will Be Blood wrote:
Deflecting and projecting. It's all becoming clear as daylight. Thanks for adding fuel to my theory.  
You can feel the "love" in him.

No fear, means no respect.
We respect what we fear can withhold, from us, something we need.
No respect - particularly self-respect - means no discipline.
Courage is not the absence of fear - only a coward would claim otherwise - it is the control of fear.

The best way to remain "fearless" is to remain infantile, ignorant.
Children, kids, kittens, puppies, are fearless, because they must mature - if they survive under the protection of the parent - to become careful, to not be care-less...otherwise they become dead.

Domesticated species, including humans, are retained in a state of adolescence, because they are sheltered from the chaos, the unpredictability of reality, the dangers and ruthlessness of natural processes.
Domestication makes the individual easy to exploit, to handle, to control; the domesticated organism is safe within the controlled environment, the barn, the fenced area; under the protective care of the farmer, the dominating force, the institution, the authority.  
 
An ignoramus fears nothing because he is aware of nothing.
He, like a child, does not know enough to be afraid of anything.
An ignoramus becomes careless, carefree, easily manipulated, and full of entitlements, and the false arrogance of one used to human, regimented controlled environments.

Awareness increases the perception of possibilities, which increases anxiety concerning the unknown - the unknown is always much more than what is known, particularly since reality is fluid, forever altering.
Only an arrogant douche-bag, using humility as a smokescreen, would claim all is a repetition of the same and that this makes it harmless, particularly if this moron like a girl, thinks love is magical and not an adaptation forced by need, and an emotion that evolved later, with the emergence of larger brained organisms with more complex neurological systems, demanding longer gestation and weaning periods.
   
Only a douche-bag, dominated by fear, wanting to dismiss it, forget it, deny it, to cope, would consider its regimented, man-made, controlled envirnment an indication of what the world is like.
Predictability is a sign of a pattern...a pattern is a sign of order...order a restriction of possibilities.
Either the retard believes in God, some form of an absolute, an underlying ordering conciousness, or he considers man-made social order, with its enforced behaviours/thinking, the world at large.

Order is another way of saying authoritarian, when dealing with political order, or social order.
Absolute order would mean absolute probability - a singularity of the possible. In fact, the word "possible" would not apply.

Hyper-Masculinity is a symptom of feminization...similarly those who profess fearlessness are the biggest cowards.  

---------------------

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The weakling wants you to see him, though he feels anxious about the social/sexual repercussions.
His loneliness overpowers his anxiety, leading to admissions which explain him and his views.
He is begging for help, and this need to be helped is enough to make him expose himself amongst those he feels the least anxiety towards.
A Christian would seek out other Christians, and a modern nihilist other modern nihilists...ILP *bingo*.
This boy seeks out the infantile, the modern, the secular nihilists, to expose himself and to find acceptance and guidance.   
Of course, in person, his admission would not be required as his every molecule would scream out his essence to those who have eyes to see, and ears to hear it.
His picture alone is enough.
It's like peering into the eyes of a doe, or a puppy.

You almost feel sorry, and protective.
You want to hug him.

Domestication in wolves and foxes has been documented.
The change in appearance is obvious - latent genetic attributes coming forth when adrenaline levels drop.
In humans the same kind of features emerge (droopiness, roundness, large eyes, soft features, friendliness) as a symptom of domestication, sheltering; social selection of docility, tolerance, friendliness, dependence, childishness.

Within this context we can understand why love would be so important to the domesticated, sheltered, manimals. A child must be loved by the other if it is to survive to the next year.
The features produce this automatic response of parental care.

It's a way of ensuring reciprocity, or the predictability of mutual dependencies....so as to maintain their carefree, careless, naivete. In nature it ensures that the youngling will have the time it needs to mature...but in human systems it becomes the norm - maturity is stopped...the youngling remains infantile for a lifetime (retardation) - see how we worship youth in the modern west.
The typical modern mind also needs the illusion that this protective, controlled, sheltering, envirnment, is a product of benevolence - just like the Christians need to believe in God as pure, mystical, love.

Any element concerning what they wish to retain in a place of sanctity, is a disruption of the illusion of internal honesty and parity.
That love may be a result of a need, a deficiency, a weakness, compensating by sacrificing liberty, cannot be accepted. It reduces the mystical power of the social glue we all love; it kills the inebriating buzz of the love-potion.
That love might be an adaptation of lust, which, in turn, might be an adaptation of the feeding mechanism, returns the sheltered mind to fear.
That love might be a natural chemical numbing process dealing with the already existent and more primal fight/flight mechanism, making schooling, and then heterosexual procreation, and then social cooperation, possible, is a blemish on the purity, the selflessness. To consider the possibility is to risk the breaking of the communal spell, and a return to uncertainty...and the unpredictability of the known but partially understood.

No, the Christian God didn't die.
He changed his name, tore off the toga, shaved the beard, and came down from the sky.
He still calls Himself Love...after a short phase where He was also called Jesus in the west...and He now resides in the future, the immanent, or in some magical realm of Platonic Idealism.
God also adapts, or else He really does die.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:19 am

Respect - The state of being regarded with honor or esteem. + To relate or refer to; concern. + Willingness to show consideration or appreciation.

I do not fear my nephew, yet I respect him.

-----

I clearly stated that if one has UNDERSTANDING of their fears, they can consciously overcome the necessity to react with fear, and instead, react with caution and consideration.

This is not ignorance.

----

The future is the continuation of the present. Therefore, if one understands the present, one need not fear the future. The future isn't a surprise, because we're surrounded by clues that indicate the momentum.

I'm a determinist.

----

As a determinist, I believe there's only ever going to be one outcome. Possibility is a product of our own ignorance. We lack the ability presently to comprehend all affect, and therefore, can't shed all possibility.

There is no chaos in reality. Chaos is our lack of comprehension of reality. We're surprised when or inaccurate means of deciphering the present is illustrated to us. When this happens, we have an opportunity to further refine our ability to decipher reality.

----

I never stated that I have no fear. I never stated that the overcoming the necessity for fear is courageous - I believe it depends on the intent.

My intent in regards to overcoming fear is a matter of efficiency and value.

Fear has got in my way and slowed me down. It has clouded my judgement and perpetuated a state that I do not value.

----

I return to KTS to consider your position on emotions. Our beliefs differ, and I want to understand your position so I can challenge it with my own.

When I see a relevant point that I feel needs to be addressed in your position, I question it. To find out what your position is in regards to the point.

You, in your wisdom, don't answer the simple question, rather, attack me on multiple fronts and dismiss me.

If this is all you have to offer, then there's nothing of integrity for me to consider and challenge my own beliefs with.

-----

I went to ILP for support, and I am not afraid to declare that. I was not in a healthy mindset when I joined that site, and what trying to get different perspectives and advice.

One of the posters there said, 'One can't die, until one has tried'. I believe this to be true, and I was trying to see if there's a way to live a life that I value and respect.

I am not here in KTS to get support, merely to challenge my beliefs. To see if there's anything worth considering here.

----

I've already spoke of love on this forum and described it's affects. I'm not going to repeat it.

----

Note to everyone, Satyr has still not answered the question I posed.

He in a round about way said, if one does indeed overcome fear, it's because they're a coward and also can't respect anyone if they do so.

So he conceded my point.

One can overcome fear, and can react to threats consciously and rationally instead of emotionally.

Given one can overcome fear, if one chooses to maintain love within oneself, then it wouldn't be a product of fear, because the fear would have already been overcome and replaced with rational understanding, caution and care.
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:56 am

Joe wrote:
Neither of you have made any justification for why one ought feel, perpetuate, or preserve fear in our current environment, merely tried to attack me on a personal level, which is bad faith 101.

A farmer doesn't want his cows to get startled. That's not in his own interest - all the energy which is wasted by getting upset, all the induced stress lowers the quality of the milk.
So one coud think, it would be nice to breed cows which have their fear emotions removed completely - They'd be the perfect machine made out of flesh. No sense of self or self-preservation. Sure, they'd react to immediate stimuli of pain and pleasure but there would be no foresight - no anticipation. These cows will also have to get their long-term memory removed because that would also make them respond in a 'fearful' manner just when something even hints at a painful memory. So without fear the temporal perception of self must be greatly reduced - no long-term memory and thus no informed view into the future.

Your love without fear is just a serene surrender. Ultimately an embrace of the nil.
You will see, that on an individual level, that that kind of love is worth nil.
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:09 am

Joe Schmoe wrote:

Quote :
Love is efficient, encourages cooperation and is a motivation
.
Love, real love, can immobilize and debilitate, makes us miserable, even makes us become dangerous to a person that is loved.  It can makes us jealous, too emotionally dependent and vindictive.  Is it not more satisfying, more tranquil, to "appreciate" someone, respect someone without loving.  There is certainly more happiness to be gained this way, than the turmoil and tribulations experienced through loving and hating, through the experience of passion in every form in one's own body.  Sex and the life instincts are derived from our prehuman, animal past, when our concerns were limited to survival and reproduction.  This seems reasonable and practical.  Why subject ourselves to pain and suffering. Is love needed for our survival?  "The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown".   "Love, in short, is the most dangerous emotion a human can experience.”
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:09 am

The boy is incapable of reading anything without his emotional goggles on.
(S)He reeks of need and desperation...and is a classic example of modern decadence.
That (s)he speaks like a girl, should not surprise us if we have read my positions on feminization, and that most females would find this unattractive, on a sexual level, should be considered obvious.  

------------------------------------------------

Nothing in Excess

Courage is not the absence of fear/anxiety...it is its control.
The ones who are the most controlled by fear are the ones pretending to be fearless, just as the most emasculated boys are the ones who indulge in hyper-masculine displays...this, too, is obvious.

Love is a form of irrational madness...a loss of clarity.
It's relation to lust is clear, and that this can also be connected with the feeding frenzy is also clear.
Basic premise: nothing comes out of nothing...all is a continuance, or a manifestation of the past...ergo love, hate, fear, do not just emerge out of the ether, magically. They are part of a temporal continuum, emerging, evolving, to meet certain survival needs, in particular periods of evolutionary development.
Social behaviour does not precede the single organism, therefore, social behaviour evolves after, later, and along with it mechanisms to make it possible are also naturally selected.    

It evolved after the fear/anxiety mechanism did.
Anxiety/fear is simply a state of preparatory fight/flight. The organism holds its energies on standby to flee or to fight.
What need would a single, solitary, organism have for love?
None.
But fight/flight would be essential for increasing the possibility of its survival.
What is a preliminary state of fight/flight?
Yes...anxiety, fear being an extreme state of it.
Anxiety being the condition of preparatory stress, in relation to a known or unknown threat.

Knowledge does not preceded ignorance...only a moron would think so...ergo the unknown confronts the organism, and anxiety is a preparatory condition in relation to the unknown.
The organism, even if it has no reason to do so, assumes the worse, rather than the best...given that the world, nature, existence, is not benevolent and non-threatening and loving towards life.

Life is a condition of agon, struggle, strife.  

For a simple organism assuming that the unknown is dangerous to it, increases its survivability, because to err in this case has no permanent negative effect; reversely if it assumes the best then one mistake is all it takes before the organism is permanently dead.

Ergo, outside human environments where there is institutional buffering, to trust and be mistaken is less preferable than to distrust and be mistaken - the former leads to death, the latter to embarrassment.

Only a mind living in human artificial environments where it is sheltered and where regimentation, predictability are part of its internal controlling structures, would the opposite be true.    

Fear also evolved as a negative assessment of the unknown.
This is why we fear more what we know less about, and we sometimes fear without having reason to. This airing on the side of the negative is a survival advantage, as it presumes a danger in a universe that is not benevolent or protective of life.
Life is rare and the world is not just, or polite.
Life evolved ways to survive in a threatening envirnment.
Even towards the known we remain partially in a state of anxiety, as its behaviour, choices, actions, are never absolutely certain.

We become more confident with repetitive experiences with otherness...but we never become absolutely certain about anything.  

Fear evolved first because in a less sophisticated organism the fight/flight mechanism which anxiety is a preparation for was the best survival tactic.
Love had to evolve (much later) to allow for larger brained organisms using heterosexual procreative methods to emerge.

Love is a sophistication of lust, and lust is a sophistication of feeding/hunger, the need to self-maintain...and so we see the same symbolic gestures, and the Freudian connections.
Sex evolved to deal with mortality...not to pleasure us.
Pleasure is a method of ensuring a behaviour, and it signifies a temporary satiation of a need...the temporary negation of need/suffering.
This temporary release from stress is what we call pleasure.

Love evolves from a bonding, imprinting, method to ensure parental care, into a bonding imprinting method to ensure social tolerance, and social cooperation.

In non-social organism, with large brains (sophisticated neurological systems), like bears, tigers etc. love never develops beyond the seasonal rut, the madness of lust, and the short weaning period required to allow a cub to reach the level of independence.
Here we cannot speak of love, as is found amongst social species where permanent proximity, interdependence is part of their genetic inheritance.

------------------------------------------------

I repeat, for the umpteenth time:
Emotions are not sensations...they are more sophisticated forms of sensations: automatic (re)actions to stimuli, offering the advantage of efficiency...because they are automatic and do not require judgement, knowledge, analysis.

Emotions are the connection of brain(mind) to body.
The brain is the central hub for a sophisticated neurological network, therefore, emotions are the internal sensations, produced when the neurological network is stimulated, internally and externally, producing an automatic (re)action.

------------------------------------------------

When the typical modern nihilistic mind speaks of envirnment he always means the man-made structures he takes for granted.
The world, for him, is encased in human contrivances, and there is nothing beyond it.
What its useful internally, for social consumption, must be a universal truth, and a permanent structure of existence.

No fear...no respect.

Now, if you are one of the ILP imbeciles reread it carefully, as I am only rewriting it one last time:

We respect what we fear can withhold form us something we need.
We respect a bigger man because he may withhold form us our physical health, by beating the shit out of us. we respect our friend because we fear he may withhold his support, love, companionship.
We respect when the other has something we need and we do not want to risk losing.
We respect a stranger, an other, because we fear of being denied respect, consideration, social participation, sex etc.
We respect our child because we fear of being denied the perpetuation of our genes, which he or she carries.

But hypocritical respect is not the same as real respect.
We fake respect so as to preserve our comfort, our access, our resources.
We also pretend love, hate, all emotions, to harmonize with the popular, so as to retain our social position.
We are expected to behave, think, in a certain way and so we pretend to do so...and in time the pretence becomes so ingrained that we forget that it is faked.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:31 am

Basic Premises

--- Single cell organisms preceded multicellular lifeforms.

---Solitary survival strategies preceded social survival strategies.
Cell division (mitosis) is the first reproductive method - it precedes cellular combinations, which we call heterosexual reproduction.  

---Rudimentary sense-based (re)actions to stimuli precede more sophisticated automatic emotional reactions.

---The senses evolved outwardly focused, not inwardly focused....consciousness precedes self-consciousness.

---Sense organs, sensing cells, are part of an emerging neurological structure. They precede the evolution of the brain, which is a centralized processing hub for this already evolved neurological network, fed through the sense organs with stimulations.

---Ignorance precedes gnosis.
We accumulate knowledge, and it always remains incomplete, partial.

---Strength is a measure of weakness.
We become stronger, we are not born so. Then we decline, due to temporal attrition, or the consequences of constant (inter)activity.  

---All value judgements are comparisons.  
a comparison of one individual (group) with another, or self with other, or a comparison of one pattern with another.

---Probability is a qualification of possibility.
Probability =  a higher or lower evaluation of possibility.
A pattern, order, is the awareness of a higher rate of probability...a predictable, consistent, behavioural pattern.  

---Order is a limitation of possibility.
The higher the order the more regular, predictable, the patterns governing its behaviour.  
Life is an ordering.
Order is reliable, within the limits of our perceptual-event-horizons.

---The absence of absolutes means that all ordering decreases, in time...towards near-absolute chaos (randomness).  

---Chaos is the absence of patterns....infinite possibilities...or chaos.
Chaos is not a description of a hidden pattern, it is the absence of patterns, a word describing a state of randomness.
To a less sophisticated mind the inability to perceive or process patterns may be translated as chaos, but this subjective interpretation is not same as chaos proper.
Chaos is an idea, a concept describing the absence of order, whether there is a mind there to perceive it or not.
The supposition that all chaos hides order, is a product of faith, and it is rooted in the anxiety the mind feels towards randomness.

--- Positive/Negative
Positive = what requires constant effort, energy, struggle to maintain itself.
Negative = what requires no effort, energy, struggle, to continue.

---Nature = the past.
Pertaining to envirnment natural refers to the sum of all nurturing, manifesting in a present, a presence.  

---Artificial = A human construct/abstraction/mechanization, technique/technology.
Pertaining to envirnment artificial refers to a state where the organisms interventions in the pre-existing natural environment exceeds in effect the natural environmental processes.
Artificial means the sum-total of human interventions upon nature which now begin to affect humanity to a greater degree than the envirnment intervened upon.

---Pollution
A reference to the collateral effects, genetic and environmental/materialistic, of these human interventions upon natural processes.

---Coward = someone who is governed by fear, even if he puts on the face of courage.
A mind encased in anxiety/fear - a mind encompassed by the immediate, the popular, the current, the modern.

---Courage = to be in control of fear.
To direct anxiety/fear towards creative goals.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:34 am

AnFang wrote:
A farmer doesn't want his cows to get startled. That's not in his own interest - all the energy which is wasted by getting upset, all the induced stress lowers the quality of the milk.
So one coud think, it would be nice to breed cows which have their fear emotions removed completely - They'd be the perfect machine made out of flesh. No sense of self or self-preservation. Sure, they'd react to immediate stimuli of pain and pleasure but there would be no foresight - no anticipation. These cows will also have to get their long-term memory removed because that would also make them respond in a 'fearful' manner just when something even hints at a painful memory. So without fear the temporal perception of self must be greatly reduced - no long-term memory and thus no informed view into the future.

Your love without fear is just a serene surrender. Ultimately an embrace of the nil.
You will see, that on an individual level, that that kind of love is worth nil.
You're comparing us to cows, great.

I'm not saying remove fear from others, I was saying remove it from the self. And what to replace it with? Not ignorance, but understanding caution, consideration, and care.

Therefore, your analogy falls short. Not that it was even heading in the right direction.

I don't even advocate removing all fear, I was saying if one removes fear from the equation, that there's still a role for love to play independent of fear, therefore, that love is not a product of fear as Satyr and his worshippers preach.

You are misrepresenting my position.

reasonvemotion wrote:
Love, real love, can immobilize and debilitate, makes us miserable, even makes us become dangerous to a person that is loved.  It can makes us jealous, too emotionally dependent and vindictive.  Is it not more satisfying, more tranquil, to "appreciate" someone, respect someone without loving.  There is certainly more happiness to be gained this way, than the turmoil and tribulations experienced through loving and hating, through the experience of passion in every form in one's own body.  Sex and the life instincts are derived from our prehuman, animal past, when our concerns were limited to survival and reproduction.  This seems reasonable and practical.  Why subject ourselves to pain and suffering. Is love needed for our survival?  "The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown".   "Love, in short, is the most dangerous emotion a human can experience.”
You're talking of love only in regards to other people. Whilst I disagree with your position, I speak of love not only in regards to people, but in regards to activity, expressions, creations etc.

Loving programming, design, art, music etc. does not debilitate one. It inspires one and encourages one to raise the bar continually.

Since you don't understand what I'm saying, your response isn't relevant.


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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:20 am

Joe wrote:
I don't even advocate removing all fear, I was saying if one removes fear from the equation, that there's still a role for love to play independent of fear, therefore, that love is not a product of fear as Satyr and his worshippers preach.

If one removes the people from the planet then the buildings will still be around. Maybe some animals will find shelter within them, so they will still perform their role. With time those buildings will be gone.

If you remove fear then there will still be love around, it will be a fleeting habit of people. People will put on the cloak of 'love' to try and gain some comfort or to fool others but with time it will be gone, when all have catched on that there is no need for it.

But I'm sure, some people will call that hedonic state and entire loss of drives, which were motivated by fears - love, an all encompassing love. And then, they'll get some rest under a nice tree or among some trashcans (no matter, all distinctions will be gone) and become one with the earth. Sounds serene.

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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:29 am

Yep, more well justified claims.

Keep it up.
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PostSubject: Re: Emotions Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:32 am

Joe Schmoe wrote:

Quote :
You're talking of love only in regards to other people. Whilst I disagree with your position, I speak of love not only in regards to people, but in regards to activity, expressions, creations etc.

Loving programming, design, art, music etc. does not debilitate one. It inspires one and encourages one to raise the bar continually.

Since you don't understand what I'm saying, your response isn't relevant.

Yes, I am talking exclusively "love" in regards to people.

Whereas, the act of estimating the qualities of things and giving them their proper value, would require choosing a word more suitable than "love".  

I understand what you are saying, no latent ambiguity here, although I think your attitude towards love is rather cavalier, even dismissive. Love is a rare commodity, not easily obtained or given. You have no real interest in any opposing views, you are only seeking confirmation of your own opinions.





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