GENE <> MEME

In the past genetic inheritance went hand-in-hand with mimetic continuance.

The homogeneity of the group ensured that whatever shared values, principles, morals, ideals, ideas, were passed on they were always common, no matter who the father was.
The female was, and is, the carrier of tradition. She adds nothing, subtracts nothing and remains totally loyal to it.
Females never experiment, because they are attracted to stability, order (masculinity) which ensures their value and the value of their offspring.
Male order offers them stability, social peace.
A predictable space to exploit their natural talents.  

A female will always defend whatever masculine power she is seduced by early on.
This is why a mother is the "heart" of a family, and why females take so easily to institution or cultures.
She will never challenge the status quo, or question its premises, but only act to preserve and to enhance them...to her benefit.

The male, on the other hand, is the one who must challenge authority, if he is to pass on his own genes.
He is disruptive to the status quo.

To prevent this masculine proclivity from tearing apart tribes the technology of marriage, based on the principle of monogamy, was invented. This turned the "free-radical" males into investors in the group's welfare.
This in homogeneous groups, where all the males shared in a genetic inheritance but, more so, shared in common values, ideals, and ideas.

This is not the case today.
Modernity, as a continuance of the universal Christian dogma, is a Meme which wishes to incorporate divergent genetic lines, peoples carrying different values, principles, ideas and ideals, into one uniform, stable, whole.
To accomplish this it must eliminate the natural connections and identifications....and so it must eliminate the carriers of such codes: males.
Females will fall in line easily...and in time they will become vehement defenders of whatever is popular, and current.
For a female it is an easy affair: what is dominant today, in her time and place, is superior...therefore it will be defended for it promises stability and establishes order within which a female can carry out her role as nurturer and mother.

But there is another breed of female. One which is more aware, more intelligent, more discriminating than the average.
For her the present, the popular, is not automatically superior to the past or the unpopular.
She knows the difference between quantity and quality.
For such a female breeding with an average man would be like breeding with an ape...even if he belongs, theoretically, to her race and her bloodline.
If the male carries the principles and values of Modernity, then he is an emasculated male....which may be similar to her, Genetically, but has nothing in common with her Mimetically.

Feminization has progressed so far in our time that genetic lineage is not a guarantor of mimetic lineage.
There has been a rupture between the past and the present, now projected as a Utopian future.

Take the modern Greeks.
They are infected with Judeo-Christian morals, ideals, values...and have little to do with the Hellenes they are descendents of.
In fact they, most of them, are the antithesis to them.
It is possible today to find more real Greeks outside modern Greece...Nietzsche was more of a Greek than they are.

Memes are how cultures are propagated.
Genes pass on a potential that may or may not be realized to its fullest, but it does not guarantee that the ideals that sprung from a particular genetic pool will find fertile ground in a mind infected with modern nihilism.  
This is particularly true in a world where the inferior male, and female, has been given the "right" to pass on genes which may not be representative of the group's best qualities.

The nihilistic infection works from the bottom up. It infects the rabble, the lowest element sin a group.
It is a meme that has appeal across genetic lines, because it seduces the basest elements in the species...now reproduced due to the absence of natural culling, becoming increasingly numerous, drowning out the qualities which inspired the emergence of a tribe.
This universalization of weakness, of meekness, cannot be combated by remaining stuck in tribal qualifications.

Mimetic warfare is one performed on a noetic level.
A shared meme must find its fighters from amongst a larger genetic pool.

Where memes develop, evolve, organically: s gradually springing out of the (niter)activity of a population with the given environment, resulting in ideas, ideals, morals, priciples, social behaviors, hierarchies and traditions....there are some that follow a reverse path.
There are some which begin as an idea, ideal, infecting the segments of a population feeling vulnerable or victimized by this (inter
)action between population and environment, and seeking for an alternative which might overturn the hierarchies established.

Whereas memes begin humbly and then spread, if they are strong enough, across tribal and generation boundaries, these last types of memes begin as universal, transcendental, appeals to the lowest parts of the group's nature.
They are not restricted because they are instantaneously universal, as they seduce the fear and the sexual need present in all mammals, instead of appealing to the higher brain, the noble part of human nature.

This makes them worldly...cosmopolitan...and deeply nihilistic.
If such a meme is successful it may gain power...and attempt to turn its ideology into a pragmatic phenomenon; turn its mimetic appeal into a genetic fact.
Here resentment finds an outlet in mimicry. It begins from lowly origins but then aspires to be like the memes it infected, in effect contradicting itself.
Zionism is an example of this process.

But the segments that remain true to their origins try to destroy the rightist elements amongst them...the elements preaching exclusivity....the special nature of this burgeoning tribe, not yet fully so.
Exclusivity or the denouncement of mixing is considered detrimental and contradictory to the essence of the nihilistic meme.
Therefore we have a further universality which does away with more than just race and sex, but attempts to destroy the boundaries of tribes and nationalities and religious doctrine.

The nihilistic meme morphs into a secular version, no longer hindered by the restrictions of religion or nationalism.
Marxism is an example of this.

But the all leveling meme exposes its anti-life, anti-world attitude because if ti follows through with its own logic, extinction will be the result....beginning with anti-species...with the redefinition of family and of what sexuality and sex are.
At this point homosexuality will not be the only sexual mutation that gains social acceptance, but a variety of sexual mutations will also become acceptable.

Nice!

How do you like the idea of memes as 'sleeper-cells'?

Some that go underground, suddenly resurface up at a totally different place and all it takes is some stimulus to set them active...

These memes are dormant, but they resist indoctrination because they are essentially "asleep".

I'll have to think more.

You mean they are not conscious.

What I took out of this for now are thoughts about marriage and tribes - or some entity which shares genes and more importantly values, ideas and morals of which some are only memes but I think if present and enforced by natural selection for a longer period of time do manifest in genes as well.

The destruction of tribes, groups which share their heritage changes the level of competition. Now it is not tribes/cultures which compete with one another but individuals. The destruction of family is one step in a line of things which seek to individualize people. Everybody is special and nobody needs to be afraid.
People will adapt in some way or their lineage will diminish under those "modern" rules. Those kind who do well in a tribal environment and their values/morals are on the decline.

One could argue that well, the nihilistic memes/'genes in the making' are the way forward to survive, thus they are the ones to be accepted and applied - would that be rational?

Or would it be smarter to use the system and abuse it as best as possible while retaining (if that is possible) ones memes or develop ones memes in a less nihilistic way which are as far as I can tell better suited in the long run (after an empire collapses, after there are new frontiers in the future -maybe)? -after people have become really stupid (reminds me of the Eloi in the movie The Time Machine (1960))

Marriage to me looks like something which is very important in the forming of civilization and could if done and applied well in the finer details still keep the human gene pool "healthy" at a reasonable level. A balance between keeping man fit and enabling larger endeavours for a society.

I am still in part a romantic but not hopeless - I hope.

As uniformity increases, being promoted even though it feels unnatural, a counter-movement emerges...one applying more stringent discrimination.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] still applies on a instinctual level.

It takes severe abstraction to incorporate vasts numbers of strangers under the heading of "friends" or "like-minded."
On an intuitive level humans can only show affiliation to a tribe's number of people.

Internal fragmentation is the result.

Dunbar's number I would call a circle of acquaintances. ^^ well, maybe if one is a very gregarious person and has enough time and interest a day to maintain those relations in a reasonable fashion. But I see the point.

In my environment I see those who are 'infected' with nihilism and have a protective barrier to maintain their world view.

Short story intermission: Recently I had a talk about the male/female dynamic and equality with some young man, hm, well I'll write man but .... . After some arguing I wanted to get a simple answer and wanted to start with basic stuff. I said: "Men are on average physically stronger than women. I'm not saying that every man is stronger than every woman, I am saying that right now in time, men are on average stronger, physically stronger than women." His answer was:"That, you can't say."
I can't say that.... I was stunned, amused, a WTF moment, by his way of arguing. A few days later I watched the movie 1984 for the first time. It reminded me of him. 2+2=4 but sometimes it's 5 and sometimes it is 3.
In my language the phrase "That, you can't say." is used to express uncertainty about something. But I figured that what he said was something along the lines of "It is not allowed to say that.". Either that or he lives on a different planet.
End of story.

There are those, yes, but they are few. Most people I know do not really concern themselves with those things but they have an open mind for it if it is presented well.
So I see those people are at their core still capable of accepting a well presented argument about reality but of course many other influences in their life tell them in part a different story about how life and people are supposed to be which keeps them dormant.

In my view nihilistic memes are rooted heavily in primal emotions like fear. Nobody wants to be afraid, ever. So life must be fair and fairly boring too. To compensate that boredom we have to entertain.
I see in the trend to more and bigger and shorter entertainment a crumbling of those methods.
To compare this with food: There is food which remains the same in taste and texture since thousands of years and still people like it. And there is modern food which has to use more taste, more aggressive tastes, more extremes and more exotic looks to be bought. It sells for a few months and then a new taste has to be created. It's bland and boring at the core and at some point that levee may break.

Instead of "Memes", I promote more discussion on the distinctions of Race and Gender. Genes are really enough otherwise. (Nationalities are superficial also, but they often hint at some gentic differences as well and those are important.) Instead of claiming the leftist term: memes, I would like to reclaim the term "discourse" for the New Right. Since the leftist don't communicate, they just verbally masturbate.

Words, for me,a re not enslaved.
They are color hues on an artist's palette.

If they have been appropriated and made famous, to the general public, by particular artist with particular nature's is not that important.

Meme is effective because of its similarity, in form, and rhyme, with gene, but also because this similarity reflects a deeper relationship.
Meme is a continuance of the Gene...and uses the same methods within different contexts.

Both are self-replicating and "selfish".
Both begin in the individual and then extend themselves towards the universal.
Gene is the organic part which then evolves the capacity to break free from it.
When I convince someone with an argument, I am using our shared premises to fertilize his/her mind, as an organism uses the shared premises of a species identity, to fertilize the body.

Satyr wrote:

Both are self-replicating and "selfish".
Both begin in the individual and then extend themselves towards the universal.
Gene is the organic part which then evolves the capacity to break free from it.
When I convince someone with an argument, I am using our shared premises to fertilize his/her mind, as an organism uses the shared premises of a species identity, to fertilize the body.

I have noticed a lot of almost paronoia towards any kind of progressivism within the New Right. (From the little part I know so far.) Strong believers in Genes would be more deterministic, they wouldn't consider fertilization of a lower mind possible, from the perspective of a higher mind. So "meme" is more like a disease. The lower can pull down the higher. But not the other way round. The higher cannot uplift the lower. Since the lower are limited by their genetic potential. This is my experience. I've tried and I am a stronger "believer" in genes, these days. There are some really nice people, with lesser genes, I know. They are "good" people and try some, but their nature sets limits for them. Genetic feces, like you said earlier. Leftists are genetic feces.

All of them?

There we are with the White Mans decadence. They have certainly the highest potential among the races. Along with the Jews, if one wished to separate those. At least on an academic/intellectual level. (See achievements, Nobel prize winners...). But at the peak of their success it suddenly becomes fashionable to become leftists. Like Tibetan Buddhism is a fashion in the west. It's trendy. It is a way of showing genetic superiority actually. The white race is still leading in income, achievements and so on. But they are so arrogant, that they think they can now save mankind also. All the other lesser races. So they say: those are less priviledged (women as well). And this is the way of decay. The levelling. I don't think in their heart of hearts they believe any of the bullshit.

So today one still sees white Leftists, that look like Apollos or Greek Goddesses in Hippie clothes. But this won't go on very long. In this case there was a memetic infection. The lesser infected them with (white)guilt, shame, guilty conscience and so on. Can this be turned around? I don't know. They still have higher genetic potential, but they use it on making lots of money, buying crappy consumer products. And wasting it on taxes for immigrants who let their own countries go to waste.

Laconian wrote:

Like Tibetan Buddhism is a fashion in the west. It's trendy. It is a way of showing genetic superiority actually.

Really? Trendy things reveal genetic superiority? - Do I understand you correct?

Is that why you are keen on understanding the Origins of Vajrayana?

I See.

If entropy is increasing then looking back is looking towards greater order, and looking forward is looking, projecting, towards greater disorder, greater randomness.

Nihilism was twisted everything until words symbolize concepts which are the opposite of how they are defined by the New Agers and the progressives.

Modernity, progress, is truly conservative because it tries to eliminate order and to conserve the naturally occurring disordering.

So the Darwinists maybe should be glad that the term "gene" is kind of carried along in the term "meme".

I still haven't fully understood mimetics. It is an urban phenomenon. Something modern. Something relevant for larger groups. Modern societies.

My question remains: are there noble memes? There certainly are lesser memes, even if someones genes are superior. I notice that. Doesn't the term memes restrict nobility though, in some sense? I understand it's usage and value to fight off the bad memes. But does the term still fit for the other side of the spectrum: to propagate the desirable memes? That at least would be something new. Since up till now, the term from what I've read was used for neutral or undesirable ideas. More as a disease (bad) or something within marketing/consumerism (neutral or maybe benificial in a moneymaking sense at best).

But the term doesn't restrict the other side: Nobility. Does it? Or do we there have a problem with the terms liberal heritage?

Evolution is a disordering, a weakening of the organism, as genetic drift, mutations and information loss take their toll on a species' DNA.

Life was at its most internally ordered and structured during the reign of the dinosaurs.

Out of this comes consciousness and intelligence, an evolutionary reaction against this entropy. The mind overcoming matter, attempting to overcome the physical decay of its own nature. Simultaneously forced to recognize this in its philosophies. The ability to adapt the environment to make it more hospitable to a weakening organism. Not only against nature, but also against other hominid groups that have retained a greater degree of their DNA through not evolving and therefore their physical integrity vs the external world.

Look at the physical phenotype of the scientist, typically a spindly creature with a bulbous cranium. Formerly this type would have been found amongst the clergy, or before that killed off in the wilderness. Now salvation is offered through science.

Eternal life, longevity, this is the terrible fate on offer.

Any man who was cursed with such a fate would live long enough to see himself overtaken in evolution, and would eventually become a laughing stock, an example of mankinds primitive past, as some races are that to us today. His image would be beamed around the world like some circus freak for the children to stare at in shock.

Can the whole of humanity live forever? Of course not. They would be hogging space and resources needed for other species to evolve, not only that but hogging their very own DNA which must become the building blocks for other creatures.

Satyr wrote:

The nihilistic infection works from the bottom up.

I know this is pulled out of context. But this is why some "top down" may be useful. (Just not in critique/analysis.) High ideals.
What I think memetic pollution is are low ideals (often sold as high or altruistic/social, non-egoistic, self-less, ego-less, unifying ideals, that are really degrading, all levelling, common).

A shared mythology. A shared goal. This is why Cults work. Only Cults are too much detached and seek power. There's got to be a balanced way. A projected top-down ideal, that is then worked towards, from a bottom-up perspective. This in an affirmative sense. The problem with only bottom-up is also confusion.

To solve the Gene/Meme trouble. It might be stated that racial purity is a noble meme. Of course it is better if all races share this meme. Because if the foreigner impragnates the local woman, this too causes race-mixing. So I agree: memes over genes, but I take race purity as a serious memetic topic. As well as nationalism. Borders. If this is too idealistic, I don't care. One has to at least put these memes out there, communicate them, to see the response and maybe more people share these memes.

You speak of something else.

A "High" ideal, as you put it, must be rooted on the soil; it must have foundations in the real...otherwise it collapses under its own, unsupported,weight.
The strength of paganism, for instance, si that it is soundly rooted in the natural world.
The ideals aspired towards are extensions of the real...not in opposition to it, or in contradiction to it. The latter is Nihilism...they too have "High" ideals.
Perhaps my Ideals are less fantastic and extraordinary, because they are based on experiences and sensually perceived reality, but it gains in pragmatism what it lacks in infantile fantasy.

I am NOT a Traditionalist, in that I refuse to believe in a human construct: God.
I am not a Traditionalist, in that I refuse to denounce Evolution Theory, simply because it brings man down to earth, and makes him less than holy.
Humans and apes Do have a common ancestry...and it is this that makes man even more exceptional.

The cycles are not, for me, cultural, if they claim that, at no time did life emerge from a common ground.
Cycles are universal, not human.

As "pisces" to have the "God" even on the radar is a big step. Usually "Pisces" cannot do so. But since this outside entity is so dominating in many peoples' lives it is important to take note of that. Most "Atheists" don't want to talk about their xtian belief or deny it, while still believing, once one keeps asking.

Darwinism is important too. I experience that people rejecting Darwinism are usually very religious people in one way or the other. This is one of the most important subjects by which to get to know a person in my opinion too.

Satyr wrote:

The cycles are not, for me, cultural, if they claim that, at no time did life emerge from a common ground.
Cycles are universal, not human.

I do not understand this.

What I mean, is that it is not human history that goes in cycles...but the world.
Human beings are only parts of it....
Therefore, I do not believe that before history begins there were civilizations bigger and better than the ones known.

Only clowns believe in that.

The question when history started remains open.

Do you believe it possible, that there were higher developed civilizations (in a sense of technics, crafts, architecture ...) before todays, here on earth?

Space is very big.
Mathematically speaking, I must consider it probable.

This does not mean that they came here to seed themselves.
Panspermia is for dimwits.

I do not speculate outside my sensually perceived zone.
I also think God is possible, in theory.
I rank possibilities by their reference points, as I said.
I give them a probability ranking.

Thanks

I think the confusion of the gene/meme talk may be that some may think they exclude each other. While in fact "genes" themselves may be an important meme.

Yes...genes are encoded memories, encoded experiences, encoded(inter)actions...that is what nurturing is.
Nature is a term describing the sum of this past, this encoded nurturing - known and, mostly unknown.
To Know Thyself, is a Delphic decree, challenging the individual to explore his past, his previous nurturing...his nature.
But not only to explore, but to accept...to embrace, because most of it will not be flattering, soothing, "positive".

Memes are an extension of this...just as mind is an extension of body; the brain's projections.
Language, it is said, is a sophistication of grooming. The tactile giving way to the more effective and efficient verbal.

Words are a form of insemination.
When we convince another, we impregnate him/her...we mind-fuck them...we seduce them.
No force, no rape...(s)he opens up willingly.

Knowledge is encoded experience; encoded nurturing/nature; encoded past.
The encoding method is words, just as in genes it is chromosomes.
The meme is an extension of the gene.
It's effectiveness is that it can bridge geographic and cultural boundaries and fertilize the alien...but not the totally alien.The other must posses reseptibilty...just as with genes the other must belong to the same species.

Satyr wrote:

It's effectiveness is that it can bridge geographic and cultural boundaries and fertilize the alien...but not the totally alien.The other must posses reseptibilty...just as with genes the other must belong to the same species.

You somewhere mentioned the example of a horse and a mule crossing. But that some outcome is not able to procreate anymore. This is where "humanity" may be heading with the miscegenation. There are some rare studies already that show negative health effects in mixed racials compared to pure racials. There should be some more examples of this in the animal world.

The same for memes. I was just talking with a white/hamitic mixed-race guy. He got his degree in Economics and seems a very smart guy. But he is still limited or hardwired to a certain thinking. The slave perspective in particular. So some of "my" ideas he rejected and in our discussion he turned to personally attacking me, instead of discussing the issue.

One should only talk to them when they are alone. Then they are more receptive. Once one goes to places, where they are among their own kind, it is very tough to propose different memes. They are not receptive anymore if a (democratic) majority favours their opinion. That's why I back you on here. Even if it is just repeating your words, in my little understanding of them, a lot. Here you hold a majority position on topics, unlike on ILP or other places or in the real world.

Laconian wrote:

Satyr wrote:

It's effectiveness is that it can bridge geographic and cultural boundaries and fertilize the alien...but not the totally alien.The other must posses reseptibilty...just as with genes the other must belong to the same species.

You somewhere mentioned the example of a horse and a mule crossing. But that some outcome is not able to procreate anymore. This is where "humanity" may be heading with the miscegenation. There are some rare studies already that show negative health effects in mixed racials compared to pure racials. There should be some more examples of this in the animal world.

this may be a possibility explaining decreasing fertility.
I think the overpopulation experiment, by Calhoun, offers a better explanation.

Laconian wrote:

The same for memes. I was just talking with a white/hamitic mixed-race guy. He got his degree in Economics and seems a very smart guy. But he is still limited or hardwired to a certain thinking. The slave perspective in particular. So some of "my" ideas he rejected and in our discussion he turned to personally attacking me, instead of discussing the issue.

A mixed-race individual has a vested interest in uniformity, because he is the start of it.

Satyr wrote:

A mixed-race individual has a vested interest in uniformity, because he is the start of it.

And yet he thinks he is the crown of diversity. ( A work of art in him/herself. )Or holds "the best of two worlds", as I've seen by many youtube bloggers, discussing their mixed-race.

The time-line of the Nihilistic Meme now infecting the western, European man.

To appreciate how nihilism comes about, and why it becomes so seductive to the majority, one must trace back its origins to cognition, how man engages the world and interprets a dynamic reality using abstraction, and how man, being a life-form, a self-organizing (organism), emergent unity, has an antagonistic relationship towards fluidity, or increasing entropy or Flux, the disordering.

Agon characterizes existence.
An ordering in the constant state of disordering, the establishment of patterns (knowledge, experience being patterns) within the dissolution of patterns we call chaos, or randomness.
Memory (genetic-memetic) is how man holds onto becoming, and when we speak of nihilism we separate of a forgetfulness, a shrinking of human perception by limiting, and controlling, human memory.
The narrative is how the memory is passed on memetically, and who controls the narrative controls the sense of self, the mind's identity.
Immediately we notice how nihilistic memes attempt to discredit, dismiss, forget, genetic memory, or what we call nature. It is contrary to this memory, because it needs to redefine, re-identify, and use human emotion to direct the mind towards a Utopian premise, which produces, in the meantime, total obedience, discipline, surrender, domination.

The foundation of human thinking is binary - this either/or the simplest minds always follow religiously.
This either/or is the projection of the dualities of good/evil, God/Satan, here/there, I/other, beginning/end, 1/0 ...where each it taken literally as a static absolute, rather than a signpost, a projected, simplified/generalized, abstraction.
This either/or produces paradoxes, when the word symbolizing these mental models are applied literally upon a reality which is fluid and has no static absolutes.

All simple minds need to put life within this either/or scenario: either liberal or conservative, either Republican or Democrat, either Communism or Capitalism.
None of these options are real, because they are never applied, in the fluid real world absolutely. the theory is never applied perfectly; the ideal never matches the real.
All that is left I the 'in theory" the hypothetical future, or beyond, or immanent, application of the ideal state.

Nihilism is the rejection of dynamic reality, settling upon the either/or paradigm, where the choice is made easier. Emotion takes over and the mind can now, given the polar opposite options selects the most soothing, comforting, inspirational, hopeful.
Secular Humanism is this choice between two projected absolutes, used as polar opposites so as to produce the illusion of understanding.

The immanent is where hope is placed, once the dogmatic, religious, foundation of secular humanism is stripped of its Divinity.
Fear is the natural reaction to the unknown, the dark, the randomness of chaos, and so in the either/or scenario two absolute forms of hypothetical order, are presented.
The secular humanist is convinced that it likes change, is pro-change, when in fact this is only in relation to the status quo, which he finds dissatisfying and unflattering.
He wants change only because he hopes, his future utopia, his better state, is immanent.

Given the real, he can only hope that any change is an increase in the possibility that his won desires will be fulfilled.
To maintain this hope he is willing to risk it all, and to give himself to chaos, to randomness, to anything that rejects what is and was.
This was, is another way of saying nature - sum of all nurturing, the past.