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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:47 am

"We are healed of a suffering only by experiencing it in full." [Marcel Proust]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:22 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:17 pm

"Monarchy can easily be ‘debunked;' but watch the faces, mark the accents of the debunkers. These are the men whose tap-root in Eden has been cut: whom no rumour of the polyphony, the dance, can reach - men to whom pebbles laid in a row are more beautiful than an arch. Yet even if they desire equality, they cannot reach it.
Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters.
For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison." [C.S. Lewis]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:40 pm

"Happy is he who wins for himself
fair fame and kindly words;
but uneasy is that which a man does own
while it lies in another's breast.

Happy is he who has in himself
praise and wisdom in life;
for often does a man ill counsel get
when it is born in another's breast." [Havamal]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:58 am

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:59 am

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:05 am

"The quantity of money is its quality." [Simmel 1978 [1900]: 259]

"The more money becomes the sole centre of interest, the more one discovers that honour and conviction, talent and virtue, beauty and salvation of the soul, are exchanged against money and so the more a mocking and frivolous attitude will develop in relation to these higher values that are for sale for the same kind of value as groceries, and that also command a ‘market price’. The concept of a market price for values, which, according to their nature, reject any evaluation except in terms of their own categories and ideals in the perfect objectification of what cynicism presents in the form of a subjective reflex. ...Whoever has become possessed by the fact that the same amount of money can procure all the possibilities that life has to offer must also become blasé." [Simmel 1978 [1900]: 256]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:06 am

"In the study of ideas, it is necessary to remember that insistence on hard-headed clarity issues from sentimental feeling, as it were a mist, cloaking the perplexities of fact. Insistence on clarity at all costs is based on sheer superstition as to the mode in which human intelligence functions. Our reasonings grasp at straws for premises and float on gossamers for deductions." [A. N. Whitehead, Adventures in Ideas]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:36 pm

"HA, HA, HA! Next you’ll be finding pleasure in a toothache!” you will exclaim, laughing.” And why not? There is also pleasure in a toothache,” I will answer. I had a toothache for a whole month; I know there is. Here, of course, one does not remain silently angry, one moans; but these are not straightforward moans, they are crafty moans, and the craftiness is the whole point. These moans express the pleasure of the one who is suffering; if they did not give him pleasure, he wouldn’t bother moaning. It’s a good example, gentlemen, and I shall develop it.

In these moans there is expressed, first, all the futility of our pain, so humiliating for our consciousness, and all the lawfulness of nature, on which, to be sure, you spit, but from which you suffer all the same, while it does not. There is expressed the consciousness that your enemy is nowhere to be found, and yet there is pain; the consciousness that, despite all possible Wagenheims, you are wholly the slave of your teeth; that if someone wishes, your teeth will stop aching, and if not, they will go on aching for another three months; and that, finally, if you still do not agree, and protest even so, then the only consolation you have left is to whip yourself, or give your wall a painful beating with your fist, and decidedly nothing else.

Well, sir, it is with these bloody offenses, with these mockeries from no one knows whom, that the pleasure finally begins, sometimes reaching the highest sensuality. I ask you, gentlemen: listen sometime to the moaning of an educated man of the nineteenth century who is suffering from a toothache – say, on the second or third day of his ailment, when he’s beginning to moan not as he did on the first day, that is, not simply because he has a toothache, not like some coarse peasant, but like a man touched by development and European civilization, like a man who has “renounced the soil and popular roots,” as they say nowadays.

His moans somehow turn bad, nastily wicked, and continue for whole days and nights. Yet he himself knows that his moans will be of no use to him; he knows better than anyone that he is only straining and irritating himself and others in vain; he knows that even the public before whom he is exerting himself, and his whole family, are already listening to him with loathing, do not believe even a pennyworth of it, and understand in themselves that he could moan differently, more simply, without roulades and flourishes, and that it’s just from spite and craftiness that he is playing around like that. Now, it is in all these consciousnesses and disgraces that the sensuality consists. So I’m bothering you, straining your hearts, not letting anyone in the house sleep. Don’t sleep, then; you, too, should feel every moment that I have a toothache. For you I’m no longer a hero, as I once wished to appear, but simply a vile little fellow, a chenapan.

Well, so be it! I’m very glad you’ve gotten to the bottom of me. It’s nasty for you listening to my mean little moans? Let it be nasty, then; here’s an even nastier roulade for you . . .” You still don’t understand, gentlemen? No, evidently one must attain a profundity of development and consciousness to understand all the curves of this sensuality! You’re laughing? I’m very glad. To be sure, gentlemen, my jokes are in bad tone – uneven, confused, self-mistrustful. But that is simply because I don’t respect myself. How can a man of consciousness have the slightest respect for himself?" [Dostoevsky, Notes from Underground]


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:37 pm

"And you ask why I twisted and tormented myself so? Answer: because it was just too boring to sit there with folded arms, that’s why I’d get into such flourishes. Really, it was so. Observe yourselves more closely, gentlemen, and you’ll understand that it is so. I made up adventures and devised a life for myself so as to live, at least somehow, a little. How many times it happened to me – well, say, for example, to feel offended, just so, for no reason, on purpose; and I’d know very well that I felt offended for no reason, that I was affecting it, but you can drive yourself so far that in the end, really, you do indeed get offended. Somehow all my life I’ve had an urge to pull such stunts, so that in the end I could no longer control myself. Another time, twice even, I decided to force myself to fall in love. And I did suffer, gentlemen, I assure you. Deep in one’s soul it’s hard to believe one is suffering, mockery is stirring there, but all the same I suffer, and in a real, honest-to-god way; I get jealous, lose my temper . . . And all that from boredom, gentlemen, all from boredom; crushed by inertia. For the direct, lawful, immediate fruit of consciousness is inertia – that is, a conscious sitting with folded arms." [Dostoevsky, Notes from Underground]


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:53 pm

I found this quote from K. Leontiev--who I'd never heard of before--in the Comments section of Jim Goad's latest piece in Taki's Magazine:
The Tolerance That Is Only Skin Deep

It nicely describes the trend toward entropy and Chaos represented by modern "Progress."

Quote :
"Development of literacy" among people does not seem to be a very appropriate expression. The *spread*, the *diffusion* of literacy is another matter. The spread of literacy, the spread of drunkenness, the spread of cholera, the spread of good principles, sobriety, thrift, the spread of railways, and so on. All of these phenomena represent the diffusion of something homogeneous, general, simple...

Social science was hardly born when, ignoring the experience of centuries and the examples of nature they respect so much, people refused to see that there was no logical relation between the egalitarian-liberal forward movement and the idea of development. One can even say that the egalitarian-liberal process is the very antithesis of the process of development. In the case of the latter, the inner idea holds the social material in its organizing, despotic embrace and sets a limit to its centrifugal and disintegrating trend. Progress, which is hostile to every kind of despotism - the despotism of classes, workshops/factories, monasteries, even wealth, and so on - is nothing but a process of disintegration...

The phenomena of egalitarian-liberal progress are comparable to the phenomena of combustion, decomposition, the melting of ice (water less free, limited by crystallization); they may be likened, for example, to the phenomena of the cholera process, which gradually transforms originally rather diverse people into more uniform corpses (equality), then into almost completely comparable skeletons (equality), and finally into free elements (relatively so, of course), such as nitrogen, hydrogen, oxygen, and so on...

In these processes of decomposition, combustion, melting, the progressive movement of cholera, one perceives the same phenomena.

1.The loss of the peculiarities which till then distinguished the despotically formed whole tree, animal, whole texture, whole crystal, etc.

2.A greater resemblance in the component parts, a greater inner equality, a greater uniformity of the structure, etc.

3.The loss of former, strict, morphological outlines,; now everything merges, more freely and uniformly.

Whichever of the states, ancient or modern, we may examine, in allof them we find one and the same thing in common: simplicity and uniformity in the beginning, greater equality and greater freedom (at least de facto, if not legal freedom) than there will be later...glancing at a plant sprouting from the soil, we do not yet know what it will become. There are too few distinct features. Afterwards we note a greater or lesser assertion of power, a more profound or less sharp division of classes, a greater variety of life and diversity of character in the regions.

At the same time, the wealth increases, on the one hand, and poverty, on the other; the resources of pleasure become more varied, on the one hand, while, on the other, the variety and refinement (development) of sensations and needs gives birth to greater sufferings, greater grief, greater mistakes and greater undertakings, more poetry and more comedy; the exploits of the educated - of Themistocles, Xenophon, Aristophanes, Alexander - are on grander scale and more appealing than the simple and crude exploits of Odysseus and Achilles. Then a Sophocles appears, an Aristophanes appears, the ranting heroes Corneille appear, the laughter of a Moliere resounds...Shakespeare or Goethe.

Konstantin Leontiev on Wikipedia
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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Thu May 02, 2013 8:57 am

- Oh happy pessimists! What a joy it is to them to be able to prove again and again that there is no joy.

- (Pure) Rational beings despise nothing so much as that magnanimity that they themselves feel incapable of.

- People who read only the classics are sure to remain up-to-date.

- We should always forgive. We should forgive the repentant for their sake, the unrepentant for our sake.

- Nothing is less promising than precociousness; the young thistle looks much more like a future tree than the young oak.

- There are intellects that shine and there are those that sparkle. The former illuminate matters, the latter obscure them.

- Only those few people who practice it believe in goodness.

- Whoever shows both charm and pleasure in explaining to people things that they already know soon gets a reputation as an intelligent individual.

- What do people like to call stupid the most? Something sensible that they can’t understand.

- Spoiled children … already get to know in early years the sufferings of the tyrant.

- The world belongs to those who possess it, and is scorned by those to whom it should belong.

- No one is so keen to gather ever newer impressions as those who do not know how to process the old ones.

- One should be selfish enough to be selfless up to a certain point.

- There are very few honest friends—the demand is not particularly great.

- None are so inconsiderate as those who demand nothing of life other than their own personal comfort.

- Nothing makes us more cowardly and unconscionable than the desire to be loved by everyone.

by Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach (translated)

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Wed May 08, 2013 6:56 am

Cold Weasel wrote:
I found this quote from K. Leontiev--who I'd never heard of before--in the Comments section of Jim Goad's latest piece in Taki's Magazine:
The Tolerance That Is Only Skin Deep

It nicely describes the trend toward entropy and Chaos represented by modern "Progress."

Konstantin Leontiev on Wikipedia

He seems to be an orthodox Xt.

Quote :
"Many do not allow even the thought that an intellectual man of our time could have such a lively and sincere faith as the simple masses do out of ignorance. But this is a great mistake. An educated man, once he gets past a certain [point] is able to believe much more deeply and ardently than an ordinary person who believes partly by habit (following the example of others), partly because his faith, his vague religious ideas are not troubled by any opposing ideas. There is nothing for him to conquer, no intellectual battles to fight. For him, what he must conquer in the spiritual arena are not ideas but passions, feelings, habits, anger, rudeness, malice, envy, greed, drunkenness, depravity, laziness, etc. For an intellectual the warfare is much more difficult and complex. Like the ordinary person he must battle all these passions and habits, but in addition he must also break his intellectual pride and consciously subjugate his mind to the teaching of the Church. Once we get past this mystical threshold, which I mentioned earlier, then our erudition will itself begin to help us in strengthening our faith.
Konstantin Leontiev"

The Strengthening of Faith

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Wed May 08, 2013 10:02 am

If I could return to Christianity, Orthodox is the way I would go.
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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Wed May 08, 2013 10:09 am

What's preventing you from returning? And what do you think is nice or meaningful about the Orthodox way? What does Orthodox Xt. teach or offer that you can say is 'unique' or aesthetically soulful or valuable?


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Wed May 08, 2013 1:13 pm

"ALL SPIRIT FINALLY BECOMES VISIBLE. -- Christianity has assimilated the entire spirituality of an incalculable number of men who were by nature submissive, all those enthusiasts of humiliation and reverence, both refined and coarse. It has in this way freed itself from its own original rustic coarseness -- of which we are vividly reminded when we look at the oldest image of St. Peter the Apostle -- and has become a very intellectual religion, with thousands of wrinkles, arrière-pensées, and masks on its face. It has made European humanity more clever, and not only cunning from a theological standpoint. By the spirit which it has thus given to European humanity -- in conjunction with the power of abnegation, and very often in conjunction with the profound conviction and loyalty of that abnegation -- it has perhaps chiselled and shaped the most subtle individualities which have ever existed in human society: the individualities of the higher ranks of the Catholic clergy, especially when these priests have sprung from a noble family, and have brought to their work, from the very beginning, the innate grace of gesture, the dominating glance of the eye, and beautiful hands and feet. Here the human face acquires that spiritualisation brought about by the continual ebb and flow of two kinds of happiness (the feeling of power and the feeling of submission) after a carefully-planned manner of living has conquered the beast in man. Here an activity, which consists in blessing, forgiving sins, and representing the Almighty, ever keeps alive in the soul, and even in the body, the consciousness of a supreme mission; here we find that noble contempt concerning the perishable nature of the body, of well-being, and of happiness, peculiar to born soldiers: their pride lies in obedience, a distinctly aristocratic trait; their excuse and their idealism arise from the enormous impossibility of their task. The surpassing beauty and subtleties of these princes of the Church have always proved to the people the truth of the Church; a momentary brutalisation of the clergy (such as came about in Luther's time) always tended to encourage the contrary belief. And would it be maintained that this result of beauty and human subtlety, shown in harmony of figure, intellect, and task, would come to an end with religions? and that nothing higher could be obtained, or even conceived? " -N
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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Fri May 10, 2013 2:00 am

Lyssa wrote:
What's preventing you from returning? And what do you think is nice or meaningful about the Orthodox way? What does Orthodox Xt. teach or offer that you can say is 'unique' or aesthetically soulful or valuable?

Thanks for the question. Makes me work a bit.

The impossibility of returning is what prevents me from returning. I'm the product of an irreligious, non-metaphysically-inclined culture. The religion of my upbringing was so laughably senile and ridiculous that it was not difficult to reject it, once I heard it was possible not to be of it. Of course I did so intellectually--not ethically or morally, at first. Therefore I was a "secular humanist" for a long time afterward. The effects of this background and training will always mark me for good or ill.

The Christians where I'm from correspond to Leontiev's "ordinary person who believes partly by habit . . . partly because his faith, his vague religious ideas are not troubled by any opposing ideas." But that does not make them youthful or inchoate ideas. They have run their course. It's the final dissolution of the Protestant diaspora into nutty cults. My religious tradition is now the senile old man lying on his death bed, his form dissolving as he presses the morphine button and sings Happy Birthday to himself.

The reason some American Christians--the more superstitious, uneducated, etc.--are becoming more and more ridiculous and retarded is because recently they've been confronted with people and ideas that contradict their beliefs for the first time. (For generations they were isolated in the vast interior of the N. American continent.) Meanwhile the sheltering and materialism of liberal modernity have made them degenerate physically, psychologically, and in other ways. Their reaction to those who mock them is fiercely emotional and unreasonable, like a child's tantrum, which is why so many people find them amusing, infuriating, or useful idiots. They can't do anything but listen to the Republicans, the neo-conservatives, Steven Spielberg, et al tell them what to do. Their mythology, their metaphysics, their "tradition" is a patriotard, Hollywood-ized, History-Channel Zionist smoothie. There's nothing of value left for me.

I am not well-read on the history of the Church. Anyway, I see in Orthodox Christianity the Traditional hierarchy, structure, inspiration and high culture that I always felt lacking in my confusing working-class American life, the vulgar culture surrounding me. As if "this is how it used to be." More dignity, rootedness/foundation, a place for the contemplative ascetic life. An esoteric, hieratic dimension, an upward direction for the intellectually curious to develop itself along. It may allow connections to be made to ancient cultures such as the Egyptians who developed the Cross symbolism. Maybe even a heroic dimension.

Aesthetically I like it too. I especially like the music produced by a few composers who are inspired by Orthodox or Traditional Christianity and Christian mysticism (Arvo Pärt, John Tavener). Watched a documentary on Arvo Pärt recently and envied his lifestyle and culture, the quiet discipline, directness, and simplicity of the man and his delight when composing.

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I was interested in Sufism and G. I. Gurdjieff for awhile, still am really, watched some documentaries and films, read some of the books. Here's one of the Gurdjieff dances:

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I have the impression that appreciation for philosophy and contemplation was endemic in the pre-modern Near Eastern culture he was a part of. This also has to do with my fascination and attraction to Russian folklore (like in those Bilibin paintings) and the survival of pagan traditions there even post-Christianity. [Recently hosted a Russian Couchsurfer and abashedly told her about this. She obligingly entertained my questions and matter-of-factly said she doesn't consider herself "Western" which also fascinated me.]

I can imagine the post-industrial vulgarity of my American culture is foreign to the world of these symbols. I feel my talents and personality would've had a ready-made niche in such an "Old World" culture that they don't have in mine. There is a kind of "pull" which I find difficult to articulate. Maybe it's Romantic escapism. But I like to think there is something genuine to feed on there.
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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Mon May 13, 2013 10:35 am

I still don't get you. What would signal a 'return' for you when you are mentally, philosophically, spiritually already into orthodoxy? Orthodox Xt. is a mutation of the Gnostic's neoplatonic One, which Plotinus' school of neoplatonism was vehemently against...

Quote :
"...the most important polemic against the movement of Gnosticism derives from Plotinus’ Ennead II.9, Against the Gnostics. Plotinus strongly attacks the Gnostics for taking the doctrines of Plato and other Greek philosophers and misinterpreting them according to their own deceptive doctrines. For Plotinus (II.9.6), the Gnostics are lying when they speak of the divine creator as an ignorant or evil Demiurge who produced an imperfect material world. They are also completely false when they regard the creative activities of the Demiurge as the result of a spiritual fall in the intelligible hierarchy (II.9.10–12). They are melodramatic and wrong when they speak about the influence of the cos- mic spheres (II.9.13); they are blasphemous when they lay claim to the higher powers of magic (II.9.14); and completely misleading when they believe in immortality achievable through the complete rejection of and abstention from the material world. Even worse are their denial of the divinity of the Word Soul and the heavenly bodies, the rejection of salvation through true virtue and wisdom, the unphilosophical support of their arguments, and the arrogant view of themselves as saved by nature, that is as privileged beings in whom alone God is interested." [Stamatellos, Plotinus and the Presocratics]

Orthodoxy simply affirms that the demiurge-Creator is not evil or inferior, and has both a divine [Father] as well as a human nature [Christ].

From there, you see, the secularization of orthodoxy is but communism.

You say,
CW wrote:

I see in Orthodox Christianity the Traditional hierarchy, structure, inspiration and high culture that I always felt lacking in my confusing working-class American life, the vulgar culture surrounding me. As if "this is how it used to be." More dignity, rootedness/foundation, a place for the contemplative ascetic life. An esoteric, hieratic dimension, an upward direction for the intellectually curious to develop itself along. It may allow connections to be made to ancient cultures such as the Egyptians who developed the Cross symbolism. Maybe even a heroic dimension.

I'll just say its not the presence of a Hierarchy itself but what does this Hierarchy amount to when its origins are of a transcendentalist nihilism? With Evola or Gurdjieff, one can claim on the esoteric plane, Islam's anti-modernist belief of the external and internal Holy War is life-affirming 'high-culture'. What made Guenon take to Sufism too. A.K.Coomaraswamy and Evola or even Spengler can conflate across the spectrum and interpret the 'heroic plane', the 'olympian solar principle', in Orthodox Xt. as equally as Islam as equally as Rome, India, Greece, Japan, etc. only because their comparative observations are from within the heavily abstracted framework of a (traditional)Order vs. (modern)Chaos, only from a negatively defined 'collective anti-modern' stance.

To a more discriminating mind within a more discriminating context of the 'pro-what?', of the 'quality' of masculinity, hierarchy, etc., there can only be Gulfs amongst these groups of anti-modernisms.

If everything can be traced back to pagan symbols and pagan structures, and if that is what you appreciate, I wonder why you would not call yourself simply as a pagan or pro-pagan instead of pro-orthodox?

The nihilistic origins of the belief of Allah or Christ can, from the 'abstract symbolic' dimension and from hindsight, easily be re-interpreted as cases of anamnesis and esoterically life-affirming - pagan christ, aryan christ, solar christ, the 'retrieving of the holy grail' or sophia-perennis is an interpretive act.
Perennialism amounts to turning this interpretive activity as a spiritual path in itself - a quest for eternal Truth, self-liberation, union with the divine, higher consciousness of pure bliss.

Its what makes Dugin, embrace Evola and Guenon as pro-Orthodox.
In one of his interviews, its easy to see how he uses Tradition - with a capital T.

When you define the modern problem as a battle for the 'human' spirit, then one remains such a Traditionalist, with a capital T.

Perennialists say a rose or God or Truth by any other name... smells the same...
From a Human point of view, Heraclitus can be cited saying the Logos is common to all. But to what degree can two interpretations of that shared logos be the same? Knowing your past must be about an honest, discriminative encounter.
It depends on how wide you draw the circle, where comparative mythology can say Thor's slaying of the serpent, or Indra's slaying of the dragon, or Apollo's slaying of the snake, or St. George who slayed a Dragon are all the 'same' events and hold the 'same' wisdom or heroism of imposing Order upon Chaos.

I define the modern problem as a battle for the 'Aryan'/'Hyperborean' spirit, and even further for the Innocence of that tragically disposed plutonic spirit.

I am not concerned with Humans or the human spirit like even Kazantzakis was.
I am only concerned with that kind of select Aryan type with a certain Cleanliness of heart.

How you define your battle reveals the quality and nature of wisdom you'd tend to value.
To one more discriminating, simplistic conflations appear more as an obfuscation, than wisdom.
I suggest the book mentioned here before - Heathen in his Blindness which pauses at a great, critical point of asking how did paganism or religion or tradition or sacred come to be defined historically?


"My genius is in my nostrils." [N.] !

I therefore would not call myself a 'T'raditionalist. But, the exceptions thrive on the rule, and in the broader war, the more discriminating will find themselves inevitably alligned with with the unexpected in humourous irony. Many years back, I was debating someone on abortion issues [I am anti-abortion] and funnily, the people supporting my side were Orthodox Xts. but for all the wrong reasons like 'Jesus said so...'

I too find Russian pagan folk-art inspiring; it resonates with my deeper feelings for nobler sentiments. I approach this kind of art as a treasurehouse of beautiful cultural metaphors, shape-forming powers. I glean from them, a knowldege of a style of alertness to the world... Contemplation on art is a kind of martial-art to me.

Can empathize with the rest of your reply. Thanks for the links, but I am contemptuous of perennialism.


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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Mon May 13, 2013 12:12 pm

Lyssa wrote:
What would signal a 'return' for you when you are mentally, philosophically, spiritually already into orthodoxy?

It would be really presumptuous for me to say I'm into it, because I actually know very little about it. I think I should have said rather, "If I was still a Christian, I would look into it." The only reason I don't regret my hasty remark now is that you've taken it seriously and given a lot in return.

Lyssa wrote:
Knowing your past must be about an honest, discriminative encounter.
It depends on how wide you draw the circle, where comparative mythology can say Thor's slaying of the serpent, or Indra's slaying of the dragon, or Apollo's slaying of the snake, or St. George who slayed a Dragon are all the 'same' events and hold the 'same' wisdom or heroism of imposing Order upon Chaos.

Yes. I would have called myself a Perennialist for a number of years and it was this kind of vagueness/universality that eventually tired me. That comparative mythology often is used to trivialize Western civilization seemed to suspicious even then. But I was unaware of--sheltered from--any alternative views. This was during the time when I was steeped in a leftist environment, absorbing what I thought I should, and trying to digest it all with an honest narrative of my own origins and statement of my interests.

You're right that it is irresponsible to promote anti-modernisms all in one package, indiscriminately.

So to be clear, "pro-pagan" over "pro-Orthodox" definitely, understanding that it's a non-specific term. I think the only philosophical solidarity I have with Christians now is in the same sense you say, when in the "broader war" you find yourself allied with them sometimes.
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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Mon May 13, 2013 12:32 pm

Lyssa wrote:
... of that tragically disposed plutonic spirit.

It's not even a planet anymore. They said so - so it must be True.



And to add a quote...

"Be wary of preying dogs and praying folks*." (old local proverb)

*pious people
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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Tue May 14, 2013 8:38 am

Anfang wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
... of that tragically disposed plutonic spirit.

It's not even a planet anymore. They said so - so it must be True.

First rule of the tragically disposed plutonic spirit is to never experience any deprivation as a disadvatange.
Second rule is to never experience any disadvantage as a deprivation.

The plutonic loves obscurity, it thrives in it. Its good everyone thinks pluto is not a planet. Everything is as it should it be.Wink


Quote :
And to add a quote...

"Be wary of preying dogs and praying folks*." (old local proverb)

*pious people

Which locality is this?

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Tue May 14, 2013 8:44 am

Cold Weasel wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
What would signal a 'return' for you when you are mentally, philosophically, spiritually already into orthodoxy?

It would be really presumptuous for me to say I'm into it, because I actually know very little about it. I think I should have said rather, "If I was still a Christian, I would look into it." The only reason I don't regret my hasty remark now is that you've taken it seriously and given a lot in return.

Don't take my word for anything. You should follow your heart and explore where you feel the pull, but coldly is my suggestion.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Tue May 14, 2013 10:06 am

By "coldly" I imagine you mean with a degree of emotional detachment. Sound advice, appreciated.
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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Tue May 14, 2013 12:00 pm

Lyssa wrote:
First rule of the tragically disposed plutonic spirit is to never experience any deprivation as a disadvatange.
Second rule is to never experience any disadvantage as a deprivation.

Deprivation is looked for and I shall always find it when it is needed.
Rules are chosen. Those, which one has to choose.

Is there a third rule? Smile

If anything, that the planetary status was revoked made Pluto more interesting to me.
A weakness is something I can appreciate because it can be transformed into something strong. - can...

Quote :
Which locality is this?

About a day's march north of the Danube and about fifty years in the past.
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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Wed May 15, 2013 11:24 am

Anfang wrote:

Deprivation is looked for

Yes.

Quote :
Rules are chosen. Those, which one has to choose.

Is there a third rule? Smile

Its like fire inside the wood. It won't show without some friction. Lets let sleeping sparks lie Wink
I was just playing about. But I could start a thread on N.'s Plutonicism....

Quote :

Quote :
Which locality is this?

About a day's march north of the Danube and about fifty years in the past.[/left]

Thank you.

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Fri May 17, 2013 7:04 am

Quote :
Lets let sleeping sparks lie

That's almost a tongue twister.

I find Plutonic to be in a relation with honesty.
Sometimes honesty requires violence.
Some things have to hide.


"The great art of life is sensation, to feel that we exist, even in pain." - Lord Byron


Quote :
But I could start a thread on N.'s Plutonicism....

I'd read it - one reason not to do it. Hah
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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Fri May 17, 2013 11:02 am

“He would say, "How funny it will all seem, all you've gone through, when I'm not here anymore, when you no longer feel my arms around your shoulders, nor my heart beneath you, nor this mouth on your eyes, because I will have to go away some day, far away..." And in that instant I could feel myself with him gone, dizzy with fear, sinking down into the most horrible blackness: into death.”

― Arthur Rimbaud
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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Tue May 28, 2013 6:00 pm

Anfang wrote:
Quote :
Lets let sleeping sparks lie

That's almost a tongue twister.

I find Plutonic to be in a relation with honesty.
Sometimes honesty requires violence.
Some things have to hide.

That too. When the intuitive feminine picks up too many gestures, signs, movements, which can only be grasped as quick symbols, like short hand to grasp then and there, the immediacy of it, by the time you translate from intuitive symbols, raising the whole chain of the beginningless linked momentum from the bottom of your heart to word-symbols, the richness dissisipates and it feels dishonest to talk anything. Signalling becomes richer than talking. A smile can communicate something more deeply than a thousand perfect words. Better to be a MonoLyssa. Which makes the struggling voice-giving masculine such a beauty.
Explains why women scream, but men shout...

Quote :

Quote :
But I could start a thread on N.'s Plutonicism....

I'd read it - one reason not to do it. Hah

I hear you. Its just that you might get transformed... and then people will really accuse me of being a hedgewitch...!
But no matter, since we always only become who we are... ; )

Will do it when I find some real time.


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"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Tue May 28, 2013 6:44 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Thu May 30, 2013 7:07 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Better to be a MonoLyssa.

A lot of things are exposed in pictures. The ones we draw ourselves and the ones we choose to show. There is often something of us hiding among them.

This reminds me of an anecdote. When I am out and there is a group of people - friends, acquaintances, strangers, unwelcome disturbances - and I am a bit drunk, or a bit more, it can happen that the voices fade into an indiscernible noise. After all the vocal misdirections are gone, a lot of things are revealed. Group dynamics are then like an open book. I find this to be much easier though, if the interaction is between others and I am not part of the particular conversation.

Language is an easy way to be dishonest. That part of the mind is probably also most afflicted with the potential for self-deception.

Quote :

Its just that you might get transformed... and then people will really accuse me of being a hedgewitch...!

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Nothing wrong with being a hedgewitch. But you already knew that! haha

A transformation is already taking place at the moment, I think I shouldn't strain my heart too much all at once. But then again, those things can only be mitigated by the conscious part.

Yes, I like to keep people guessing...about many things.
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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Thu May 30, 2013 8:09 pm

Does anyone recall a quote by Nietzsche or, perhaps, someone else, mentioning how this age is an Alexandrian Age?

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Thu May 30, 2013 8:21 pm

The Birth of Tragedy, I think:

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Nietzsche gives a surprising example of the down side of Alexandrian (i.e. Socratic) optimism. "…the Alexandrian culture, to be able to exist permanently, requires a slave class, but, with its optimistic view of life, it denies the necessity of such a class, and consequently, when the effect of its beautifully seductive and tranquilizing utterances about the 'dignity of man' and the 'dignity of labor' is over, it gradually drifts towards a dreadful destruction." This slave class, having come to regard its existence as an injustice (learning to do so from the authorities of culture itself), will revolt in revenge. While this example seems absurd in this context, it does present an interesting view of the fundamental contradiction inherent in democratic capitalism, which, Nietzsche says, cries out that the common man is free while at the same time exploiting him mercilessly.

Nietzsche does his best to portray the Alexandrian existence as hollow and doomed to destruction by its own logic. His extremely depressing portrayal of the Alexandrian man almost has us convinced: "[he], who is at bottom a librarian and corrector of proofs, and who, pitiable wretch, goes blind from the dusty books and printers' errors." When compared to the Dionysian promise of vital energies and eternity spent close to the universal will, this existence seems unbearably wretched. Nietzsche has appealed not only to our intellect, but also to our emotional need for comfort and connection.

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Thu May 30, 2013 8:23 pm

Thanks.

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Fri May 31, 2013 9:49 am

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:59 pm

Satyr wrote:
Does anyone recall a quote by Nietzsche or, perhaps, someone else, mentioning how this age is an Alexandrian Age?


Quote :
"But over the widest surface area of Hellenistic existence raged the consuming wind of that spirit which announces itself in the form of “Greek serenity,” to which I referred earlier as an impotent and unproductive delight in life. This serenity is a counterpart to the marvelous “naïveté” of the old Greeks, which we must see—in accordance with its given characteristics—as the flowering of Apollonian culture, blossoming out of a dark abyss, as the victory over suffering, the wisdom of suffering, which the Hellenic will gains through its ability to mirror beauty.
The noblest form of that other form of “Greek serenity,” the Alexandrian, is the cheerfulness of the theoretical man. It manifests the same characteristic features I already derived out of the idea of the un-Dionysian: it fights against Dionysian wisdom and art; it strives to dissolve myth; it places an earthy consonance in place of a metaphysical consolation, indeed a particular deus ex machina, namely, the god of machines and crucibles, that is, the force of nature, recognized and used in the service of a higher egoism; it believes in correcting the world through knowledge, a life led by scientific knowledge, and thus is really in a position to confine the individual man in the narrowest circle of problems which can be solved, inside which he can cheerfully say to life: “I want you. You are worth knowing.” [BOT, 17]

Quote :
"It’s an eternal phenomenon: the voracious will always finds a way to keep its creatures alive and force them on to further living by an illusion spread over things. One man is fascinated by the Socratic desire for knowledge and the delusion that with it he’ll be able to cure the eternal wound of existence. Another is caught up by the seductively beautiful veil of art fluttering before his eyes; yet another by the metaphysical consolation that underneath the hurly-burly of appearances eternal life flows on indestructibly, to say nothing of the more common and almost more powerful illusions which the will holds ready at all times. In general, these three stages of illusion are only for nobly endowed natures, those who feel the weight and difficulty of existence with more profound reluctance and who need to be deceived out of this reluctance by these exquisite stimulants. Everything we call culture emerges from these stimulants: depending on the proportions of the mixture we have a predominantly Socratic or artistic or tragic culture—or if you’ll permit historical examples—there is either an Alexandrian or a Hellenic or a Buddhist culture.
Our entire modern world is trapped in the net of Alexandrian culture and recognizes as its ideal the theoretical man, equipped with the highest intellectual powers and working in the service of science, a man for whom Socrates is the prototype and progenitor. All our methods of education originally have this ideal in view. Every other existence has struggled on with difficulty alongside this ideal as a way of life we permit, not as one we intend. For a long time now, it’s been almost frightening to sense how an educated person here is found only in the form of the scholar. Even our literary arts have had to develop out of scholarly imitations, and in the main effect of rhyme we recognize still the development of our poetical form out of artificial experiments with what is essentially really a scholarly language, not one native to us." [BOT, 18]

Quote :
"And now we must not conceal from ourselves what lies hidden in the womb of this Socratic culture! An optimism that thinks itself all powerful! Well, people should not be surprised when the fruits of this optimism ripen, when a society that has been thoroughly leavened with this kind of culture, right down to the lowest levels, gradually starts trembling in an extravagant turmoil of desires, when the belief in earthly happiness for everyone, when faith in the possibility of such a universal knowledge culture gradually changes into the threatening demand for such an Alexandrian earthly happiness, into the invocation of a Euripidean deus ex machina!
People should take note: Alexandrian culture requires a slave class in order to be able to exist over time, but with its optimistic view of existence, it denies the necessity for such a class and thus, when the effect of its beautiful words of seduction and reassurance about the “dignity of human beings” and the “dignity of work” has worn off, it gradually moves towards a horrific destruction. There is nothing more frightening than a barbarian slave class which has learned to think of its existence as an injustice and is preparing to take revenge, not only for itself, but for all generations. ...Our art reveals this general distress: in vain people use imitation to lean on all the great productive periods and natures; in vain they gather all “world literature” around modern man to bring him consolation and place him in the middle of artistic styles and artists of all ages, so that he may, like Adam with the animals, give them a name. But he remains an eternally hungry man, the “critic” without joy and power, the Alexandrian man, who is basically a librarian and copy editor and goes miserably blind from the dust of books and printing errors." [BOT, 18]

Quote :
"...the proximity of the resurrection of the Greek spirit, the need of men who will be counter-Alexanders who will re-tie the Gordian knot of Greek culture after it has been cut." [Ecce Homo, How One Becomes, 4]

But, Nietzsche also said in the same, Alexander was Dionysian incarnate.


Quote :
"According to legend, Gordius was a peasant who married the fertility goddess Cybele. When Gordius became king of Phrygia, he dedicated his chariot to Zeus and fastened it to a pole with the Gordian knot. Although the knot was supposedly impossible to unravel, an oracle predicted that it would be undone by the future king of Asia.
Many individuals came to Gordium to try to undo the knot, but they all failed. Then, according to tradition, the Greek conqueror Alexander the Great visited the city in 333 B.C. After searching unsuccessfully for a while for the hidden ends of the Gordian knot, Alexander became impatient. Then, in a sudden unexpected move gleaned from a flash of brilliance, he took out his sword and cut through the knot in a single bold stoke. Of course, Alexander then went on to conquer most of the known world, including Asia, thus fulfilling the oracle's prophecy.
Alexander's solution to the problem led to the saying, "cutting the Gordian knot," which means solving a complicated problem through bold action or extraordinary insight." [an online source]

With reference to what Anfang quoted,
Quote :
"This was the outstanding achievement of Alexander and he was among the first to have his face on coins. " - Ferdinand Lips, Gold Wars
,

Savitri Devi disagreed with the notion of Alexander as the debaser of the Greek coinage and opening internationalism; rather he was seeking an Aryan unification [in the wider sense of Persia too]:

"Far from setting the example of such internationalism... Alexander drew a very definite line between one sort of non-Greeks and the others."
Savitri Devi: Alexander the Great and the Mixing of Races

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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:01 pm

Advocatus Diaboli wrote:
In that vein, there's this thick book by Peter Green:

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I haven't read it, but judging by the reviews and book description, he apparently notes some points of comparison between our time and the Hellenistic/Alexandrian period.

I have his other book which looked more thought-provoking, 'From Ikaria to the Stars'.

- - -

Chapter four in the contents below has a good section on Alexandrianism and the Illusion of Progress:

Defining Modernism


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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:00 pm

Anfang wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
Better to be a MonoLyssa.

A lot of things are exposed in pictures. The ones we draw ourselves and the ones we choose to show. There is often something of us hiding among them.

Where is yours? How many self-portraits have you covered so far?, not to mention dis-covered, un-covered, re-covered...?

Quote :
This reminds me of an anecdote. When I am out and there is a group of people - friends, acquaintances, strangers, unwelcome disturbances - and I am a bit drunk, or a bit more, it can happen that the voices fade into an indiscernible noise. After all the vocal misdirections are gone, a lot of things are revealed. Group dynamics are then like an open book. I find this to be much easier though, if the interaction is between others and I am not part of the particular conversation.

Ditto minus the drinks.; a pythia on smoke...

Quote :
Language is an easy way to be dishonest. That part of the mind is probably also most afflicted with the potential for self-deception.

Now, I'm reminded of a folk story.

"An Indian sage saved a young mouse and changed it into a maiden. When the maiden reached the appropriate age, the sage wished to find her a powerful husband who would be worthy of her. He summoned the venerable sun and said, "You are powerful; marry this my daughter!"
But the sun replied to him, "Reverend sir, the clouds are more powerful than I, they cover me so that I become invisibke." Then the sage said to a cloud, "Take my daughetr!" But he answered, "The wind is stronger even than I am. it blows me hither and thither in all directions."
Then he summoned the wind, but the wind reolied to him, "Reverend sir, the mountains are more powerful than I, since I cannot move them so much as a finger's breadth." But when the sage summoned a mountain, he was told, "The mice are stronger than we, they make us full of countless holes on all sides." Thus, the sage turned the girl back into a mouse and found a mouse to take her as his wife." [Panchatantra]

It like any other tool can construct or deconstruct a world.


Quote :
Quote :

Its just that you might get transformed... and then people will really accuse me of being a hedgewitch...!

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Nothing wrong with being a hedgewitch. But you already knew that! haha

That's what I'm saying... I'd be accused of being a hedgewitch, when I'm this kind... lol

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our hearts, the burning iron at the core of the earth...

sol+niger

pitch black pluto prowling ...

Quote :

A transformation is already taking place at the moment, I think I shouldn't strain my heart too much all at once. But then again, those things can only be mitigated by the conscious part.

Yes, I like to keep people guessing...about many things.

The portraits might talk...

Sorry, changed my mind on N.; the kairos has gone.

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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Anfang

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Gender : Male Virgo Posts : 2000
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Age : 33
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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:43 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Now, I'm reminded of a folk story.

I'll have to let that story sink in.
I think I remember a story too, it's about water and a flounder...
It's considered to be plutonic, I haven't thought about it yet.

Here it is
The Fisherman and His Wife - A Grimm's Tale

Quote :
The portraits might talk...

Yes. A picture can tell a lot about the person who selects it - a part.
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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Quotes, Excerpts, Anecdotes. Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:51 pm

Anfang wrote:
Here it is
The Fisherman and His Wife - A Grimm's Tale

Amazing; the common culture-complex..., thank you.

I used my story to say "We always only become who we are" although language allows us the experiment to fashion our worlds, and in the process we become even more of who we only are.


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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View user profile http://ow.ly/RLQvm
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