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PostSubject: Interesting scenario Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:34 pm

Say someone is surrounded by a group of people who do nothing but tease them, hurt them, say mean things to them and basically try to make them feel like total shit. This person is already in a very weak spot, does not have the same resources or social ties and is completely alone.

But what if despite all these advantages the group has against this one person, this one person also possesses an inward strength that they do not, that of a near ubermensch among the herd, and an ability to defend themselves very well.

What if this person is put in a position where they have no choice but to be mean....?

Are they to be held responsible, especially if they are able to hurt the others while remaining unscathed themselves?


Say a girl calls another girl fat, but this girl tells her she's anorexic until she starts to believe it. Does the girl deserve it? What if it's the only way to dodge the perception of what is fat and what is acceptably thin in a manner that will keep her at bay?

What if the anorexic looking girl is rich? And has more friends? And all the boys want her? And she's much older? Should she be able to cry defense....maybe for insecurity reasons? How far is too far? What if the fat girl is so good at what she does that she convinces the other girl that she is completely worthless and she starts getting suicidal? Ok, bad fatty....

But what if the rich girl's friends come back for revenge....and she's got more to deal with? What if they're able to seriously hurt her, beat her up, even kill her?

Fat girl's near the point of tears but she'll never let up- victim mentality is for the weak. She's able to fight them off.

In the case of the strong vs the weak, who's really to blame here? In all reality, fat girl has more the burden of responsibility as she is stronger and mature enough to handle the situation without violence or physical contact i.e. tactics other than verbal. Let's say the way a wicked witch, and her coven, would do on a Disney Princess....except this princess doesn't have a prince to save her......so she must use her own means of survival that do not include underhanded dirty tricks....

Well, this princess can talk her way out of things...
And she really makes them mad...
Even hurt (though they won't admit it)...

Has she turned into the villain herself, or in moments like these does she become her own hero?

And as for the group mentality, what becomes of it? They are always physically stronger, but mentally weaker....so does that make them the true victims? It's no excuse for their behavior, but you can't blame a group of animals for attacking you.

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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting scenario Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:46 pm

Ha!!!!

This is precious.
What a Face

Let's say a leper from a local leper colony goes out of her leper enclave and finds hundreds of leper colonies all around.
Suddenly the leper begins feeling better about herself....not as ugly....not as ill.
She feels normal.

Then one day, quite by accident, she stumbles upon a small village full of weird, non-leprous individuals.
They feel sad for her; they pity her, they try to leave her along...but this leper goes to the town's square, finds a soap-box and begins preaching the benefits of being a leper.

These villagers feel sorry for the creature but that she comes to their village trying to spread her disease angers them.
They did not go to her village, not do her leprous country, trying to convince her to heal herself, but she came to them trying to convince them that she is healthy whereas they are sick.
At first they try to reason with her, but she will not have it....she feels threatened by their reasoning and although she cannot respond to it she feels that it is wrong to do such a thing to a poor, decrepit leper, like her.

She feels victimized, even if it was she that went looking for uninfected villages to infect, as part of her quest to make leprosy less of a sickness and more of a norm.
The more they argue against her that more proud she feels; she feels like she is making an impact.
The villagers see that they cannot reason with so much sickness so they begin to jeer at her, and toy with her, and throw tomatoes at her.
This she takes as an indication of their fear of her disease...which she calls her "ideal" or her "god".
Their disgust of her becomes for her pride and joy....she begins feelnig like she is having an effect....why else would they be so hateful towards her?

She also feels a victim, which is what leper's feel is part of their inner beauty.
Now her tears turn to laughter.

The villagers lose all hope in her....and banishing her would only reinforce her delusions.
They tolerate her.
She becomes their village idiot....and they hope no more like her will come to spoil their nice real village.


-------
Do you know what this moron reminds me of?

She reminds me of Adam...a.k.a. PurpleDragon...a.k.a. unreal.

No matter what you said to that idiot, no matter what arguments you used against his delusions, he always managed to twist them into self-flattering supports for his original imaginings.
If you ignored him or caged him, then it was because he was "dangerous"....and on matter what you said in response to his views he never listened.

I think I smell a new member of the Dungeon, clawing at the bars.

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PostSubject: Re: Interesting scenario Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:53 pm

Good story, Satyr. But this girl is not a leper, and it's actually the village that is full of leprosy....

You, for example, are one of the people she has hurt in the past and are trying to get back at.

What's funny, too, is that you are a male in your late 40s always trying to bring down a young female in her early 20s and you STILL come out looking like an idiot.
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting scenario Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:54 pm

Poison IV wrote:
Good story, Satyr. But this girl is not a leper, and it's actually the village that is full of leprosy....
That's exactly what the leper thinks.

Poison IV wrote:
You, for example, are one of the people she has hurt in the past and are trying to get back at.
Hurt, sweetie?

Tell these people how you "hurt" me.

Poison IV wrote:
What's funny, too, is that you are a male in your late 40s always trying
to bring down a young female in her early 20s and you STILL come out
looking like an idiot.
After your original post it is I who is "trying to bring you down", little nit-wit?

But I love the victim ploy...once more.
It's so classic and powerful you can't stop using it.

Did you read my story?
I did not come looking for you...now did I?
But here you are trying to spread your leprosy...doing your Lord's good work, no doubt.
Viruses have their own ingrained self-replicating programing: spread or die.

Shall we talk about the CI.A. watching you, how demons accosted you in the night and all the other wonderfully healthy things about you?

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Last edited by Satyr on Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting scenario Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:58 pm

Satyr wrote:
That's exactly what the leper thinks.

It's also what the village thinks....so who's who? Your witty antagonisms are in fail mode.
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting scenario Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:59 pm

He doesn't even believe me when I say the CIA is watching.....
Nice save.
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting scenario Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:00 am

Poison IV wrote:
Satyr wrote:
That's exactly what the leper thinks.

It's also what the village thinks....so who's who? Your witty antagonisms are in fail mode.
Ha!!!!
You are part of the majority, little nit-wit...so this automatically makes you part of the "healthy" ones.
Look how healthy your world is.

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PostSubject: Re: Interesting scenario Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:01 am

Poison IV wrote:
He doesn't even believe me when I say the CIA is watching.....
Nice save.
But it is...isn't it? cyclops

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PostSubject: Re: Interesting scenario Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:40 am

Back to the OP, Nietzsche always said the criminal possessed stronger traits, but take a look at modern prisons and this is definitely not the case. However, the stronger do have a tendency to want to make their own rules etc if given the chance. Breaking them does not necessarily indicate strength, just strong rebellion.

If there is a lesson to be learned, it's that the strongest rarely survive.

One thing the crowd does in the way it thinks is execute punishment for an injustice committed against it. But that's not all, they also view the criminal as the one responsible; never themselves. Even if they ushered it in and the perpetrator is given no choice. As we see in instances of ghettos and poverty stricken youth, they are lead to a life of crime.

While typically the ones put in weak positions do not make it out, let's say there could be rare exceptions. If they are able to revolutionize in some way their state of living in a way that conflicts with the majority's standard, who are the bad guys?
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting scenario Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:00 am

Yes, we are responsible for the fact that some hominid races are less evolved/didn't evolve/will never evolve and cannot compete in the civilization we have created.

How we've 'ushered this in' though is a mystery. Perhaps by being what we are?
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PostSubject: Re: Interesting scenario Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:37 am

I say it because responsibility is a result of having more of an advantage, and some do over the herd, but the pack can be physically more intimidating, and if given the chance will overthrow natural dominance. It doesn't happen often, and a frat boy belonging to an Ivy League doesn't usually get stranded in a ghetto. But what happens if someone of decent strength has cultivated themselves under the shelter of civilization for a very long time, and along comes a crowd or criminal that has not, and out of envy and as a way to boost their own status, come along to try and destroy it, and there is no law enforcement around, nor circumstance permitting their authority as higher individuals? They are put at a major disadvantage...

But the others come from a disadvantaged lifestyle, and when given the chance will vengefully lash out at the purported culprit.

Isn't there a stronger, more responsible side here, despite the droves and physicality of the matter?

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PostSubject: Re: Interesting scenario Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:19 pm

The little girl should read Julian Jaynes and his thesis on the Bicameral Mind....particularly the parts about schizophrenia and paranoia.

Then she can come here and talk about how "hurtful' she's been and why the entire world is "out to get her" or is so "interested in her" and her simple, typical, North-American life.

I think she might find her "attraction" to Brian, and his paranoid schizophrenic pedophilia, far more a-typical than accidental.

An excerpt:
Jaynes, Julian wrote:
The Advantages of Schizophrenia: A curious heading, certainly, for how can we say there are advantages of so terrifying an illness? But I
mean such advantages in the light of all human history...The answer, of course, is one of the themes I have stated so often before in this essay. The selective advantage of such genes was the bicameral mind evolved by natural and human selection over millennia of our early civilizations. The genes involved, whether causing what to conscious men is an enzyme deficiency or other, are genes that were in the background of the prophets
and the ‘sons of the nabiim’ and the bicameral man before them.
Another advantage of schizophrenia, perhaps evolutionary, is tirelessness. While few schizophrenics complain of generalized fatigue, particularly in the
early stages of the illness, most patients do not. In fact, they show less fatigue than normal persons and are capable of tremendous feats of
endurance…

A further thing that schizophrenics do ‘better” than the rest of us – although it certainly is no advantage in our abstractly complicated world – is simple sensory perception. They are more alert to visual stimuli, as might be expected if we think of them s not having to strain such stimuli through a buffer of consciousness.

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PostSubject: Re: Interesting scenario Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:02 pm

Poison IV wrote:
I say it because responsibility is a result of having more of an advantage, and some do over the herd, but the pack can be physically more intimidating, and if given the chance will overthrow natural dominance. It doesn't happen often, and a frat boy belonging to an Ivy League doesn't usually get stranded in a ghetto. But what happens if someone of decent strength has cultivated themselves under the shelter of civilization for a very long time, and along comes a crowd or criminal that has not, and out of envy and as a way to boost their own status, come along to try and destroy it, and there is no law enforcement around, nor circumstance permitting their authority as higher individuals? They are put at a major disadvantage...

But the others come from a disadvantaged lifestyle, and when given the chance will vengefully lash out at the purported culprit.

Isn't there a stronger, more responsible side here, despite the droves and physicality of the matter?



Wanting the best for everybody has only compromised every single thing involved - as democracy has amply demonstrated over the years.

Your dilemmna is wanting to appear just and wanting to be the better person or the higher person in the eyes of God, before a Witness, and, obeying your own natural instincts. Is it a 'sin' to lash out at someone in your self-defence?

You seem to think that the one who believes she is inwardly strong and conscious of it, need not demonstrate and prove their strength.
If this is what 'You' believe, and you find yourself demonstrating anyway, then its your own weakness that irritates you.


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