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PostSubject: Race and Tolerance. Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:52 pm

I grew up in a christian family.  My father was a pastor.  I also was born and raised in norway.  The land of egalitarianism.  Tolerance is a virtue they all say.   But what if the new black kid from sudan with his "cuzzins" gonna come beat me and my friends up because we are white?  Should i practice tolerance?  What if our new muslim brethren fresh off the boat from pakistan, iraq, iran and kurdistan wants to build a mosque and they start demanding equal say in parliament to that of the norwegian people?  is tolerance still a virtue?  Should i tolerate paying taxes to pay for transportation and food and boarding for new immigarnts to come in?  When will it end?  When is enough enough?  Im sick and tired of this piss about tolerance and helping the "less fortunate".  And the thing that pisses me off the most is that most of my family subsribe to this mind disease that it is.  What about us?  What about our people?  Does anyone care?  Does anyone notice?   Am i a racist for pointing out the obvious?  In many ways i understand Breiviks endeavor.  But if anything he helped reinforce that intolerance is bad.  Im all for intolerance now.  Nothing in excess of course but id rather err on the side of intolerance than tolerance.  Because if you were intolerance youre just gonna kick yourself in the ass when you go to bed about it but the price to pay for tolerance is your very essence.  slowly but surely... one day youre gonna wake up in a different country than the one you went to sleep to in.
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:32 pm

Seek your nation outside geographic boundaries.

Be surrounded by apes and do not identify yourself with them.

This is more than just about genes...this is about memes.

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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:42 pm

Good advice.

Despite the biological differences between the races, most of the frustratingly ignorant people I've met in life have been white.

(But I'm still opposed to mass immigration)

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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:58 pm

Race is but the start.
Decay is having an effect upon all bloodlines.

Race simply signifies a lower or higher potential for a particular trait.
There may very well be negroes who are far more noble than the average European.

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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:29 pm

I hear you guys. I have to deal with reality as it is. I guess the more infertile the ground has become for us natives the stronger we have to become to survive in this soil. My family, except my brother are christians. and my brother is a culural marxist that doesnt mind at all that norway is gonna turn brown and believes whites keep brown people down.
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:30 am






RIP European race
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:34 am


Quote :

Gunnar Heinsohn

Dying nations are usually defined as those with fertility rates of 1.5 or lower. By that measure, 30 European countries are either dying today or -- like France -- seeing their cultures and populations transformed by growing ethnic and religious minorities.

Europe is shrinking just as the population in Islamic, African and Asian countries is exploding. In 2020, there will be one billion "fighting-age" men (ages 15-29) world-wide; only 65 million will be Europeans. At the same time, the Muslim world will have 300 million males, often with limited opportunities at home.

The so called youth bulge in the Islamic, African and Asian countries is sweeping across Europe, with its lose immigration laws.

Quote :
He [Heinsohn] is known most widely for his theory of the Youth Bulge. He argues that an excess in especially young adult male population predictably leads to social unrest, war and terrorism, as the "third and fourth sons" that find no prestigious positions in their existing societies rationalize their impetus to compete by religion or political ideology.

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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:02 pm

The West is declining. The demographic shift that the the Americans are imagining is the sign of a cultural collapse. We're importing bodies to replace ourselves.

For example, Mexicans now are like Germans in Europe during the Fall of the Roman Empire. One population is being out-competed by another.

What is really disturbing is that the populist view on this is to cheer the decline on, to view it as progress - progressivism.

Decadence is when a society becomes too weak to sustain itself. This is what we are seeing today.

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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:37 pm

Yet the fossil record suggests that the evolutionary tide is with us. The rise of the biological untermensch - as as it is imagined by the liberal media - cannot be logically supported from the archaeological evidence.

Too much is at stake, particularly the future of life on Earth.
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:07 am

Recidivist wrote:
Yet the fossil record suggests that the evolutionary tide is with us. The rise of the biological untermensch - as as it is imagined by the liberal media - cannot be logically supported from the archaeological evidence.

Too much is at stake, particularly the future of life on Earth.

And do you care about the future of "life on earth"? Isn't that like caring for "humanity"?

Could you please expand on these "fossil records". What are they? and what do they proof or suggest!?

Paternalism has lead to the development of an "Untermensch", it has made us weak. Now we have to deal with the cards we were given and make the best of it.



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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:12 am

The idea of a biological untermensch is not an idea the "liberal media" would consider. They operate from the premise of egalitarianism.

What do you mean?

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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:26 am

apaosha wrote:

Decadence is when a society becomes too weak to sustain itself. This is what we are seeing today.

I think what we have to give up is our Euro-centrism, any kind of Ethno-centrism, National-centrism, also that kind of religious ridicule, that "our" New Atheists engage in, and even look at the question: in what way is Islam and the other traditional cultures of Africa and Asia superior to whatever, we have in the West?

And give a clear account of what we DO have going for us in the West, w/o male guilt, white guilt, western guilt, german guilt, ...and what could we learn "from" these cultures, by their example.

I am not saying we should turn muslims, what I am suggesting is to look at them as examples, to search stronger for what we might have had here: Paganism.

Example:
I experienced some buddhist religious practices in a Sangha some time ago. And it felt good. I quit it, because of their liberal politics, but what stuck with me, was an urge to look for my own spiritual roots, on the ground I was born on, my culture. And I am still searching.

Islam has a sense of Family. Islam also has distinct roles for the male and the female. The male is regarded as superior to the female. And the female must follow.

They don't have feminism. They have in this sense a higher order, than we do. That's why they are flourishing. And their numbers increasing. And ours are declining.

Western males are constantly made to feel insecure about our manhood, our manliness. So we feel the need to prove ourselves constantly TO FEMALES. That is ridicilous. So in the West the females are like our bosses. What good can come of that...

Arabs (including Judeo-Christians) don't have this trouble. There is order in this regard.



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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:42 am

Listen, we're still living in a post-WW2 paradigm.

Germany, being what it represented and in particular who it antagonized, was a disaster. Any sense of pride that the European race could feel was washed away with a few million Jews 60 years ago. Europe lost that war. Not Germany.

Our race has been loaded, again, with Jewish guilt. Jews always die for our sins and it is our responsibility to make it up to them. First we became Christians and today we are liberals.

The solution to this must come from you. Islam is foreign, the product of the same region as the other 2, an Abrahamic faith. We do not come closer to our roots by straying further from them.

It is a mistake to associate morality with superstition. This makes your morality easy to deconstruct and renders your values meaningless - see Critical Theory. This is part of why faggots are allowed to raise children and pretend that they are married. And why, in time, paedophilia will be normalized as a sexual orientation and not a psychological disorder. That will be a sign of the final collapse.
The other part is that the system strives to include within itself all that can be included, necessitating a breaking down of old barriers and an increasing tolerance of the divergent; resulting in a leveling towards the effeminate as the type which is the most readily included within social systems, it having a higher predisposition towards compromise and submission to the will of the group.
The masculine being that which excludes, discriminates, participates in hierarchies, drives out competitors and those deemed as pariahs (degenerates/unworthy), dominates those around it, etc.
The family also represents a barrier to the state as it poses an influence upon the child's upbringing which may interfere with the values the state wishes to produce. The family recreates itself. The state produces citizens. There is a difference.

Values must be arrived at rationally, not because they give you an emotional, or other personal, reward.
Look at how the studies on race and intelligence are quashed or ignored because someones delicate feelings are hurt.
There must be a willingness to accept the necessity of suffering and to value knowledge more than suffering, because suffering is inevitable.

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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:29 am

apaosha wrote:

Europe lost that war. Not Germany.

I never looked at it this way... Maybe it is because from here I cannot even access certain pagan or historical sites, that may be dealing with the history of WWII, that got me so confused. Maybe it is because there was never a peace treaty signed with us after WWII. That our "Grundgesetz" isn't even a constitution and its validity is highly uncertain. That we still have US troops on our soil...

Quote :

The solution to this must come from you. Islam is foreign, the product of the same region as the other 2, an Abrahamic faith. We do not come closer to our roots by straying further from them.

I agree with you on that. I don't try to talk to them, but I observe them and try to look at them objectivly.

Quote :

It is a mistake to associate morality with superstition.

Where do I do that? I don't even discuss morality. It's a subject way below my taste.

Quote :

The other part is that the system strives to include within itself all that can be included, necessitating a breaking down of old barriers and an increasing tolerance of the divergent; resulting in a leveling towards the effeminate as the type which is the most readily included within social systems, it having a higher predisposition towards compromise and submission to the will of the group.

This is our western-centric pov. This is not what's going to happen. Just please look at the numbers, the demographics. What Satyr is mainly describing is the PAST. What's been happening in the West in the last decades. But this is coming to an end now. And Caesarism will rise. First violence... At least this is what I can observe in the news over here.

Quote :

The masculine being that which excludes, discriminates, participates in hierarchies, drives out competitors and those deemed as pariahs (degenerates/unworthy), dominates those around it, etc.

Our hierarchies are not THEIR hierarchies. Our laws are not their laws. (Sharia) And THEY are becoming the majority faster and faster. What I observe is a drop in their pretentiousness. They are becoming more blatant in their disrespect towards us. (Again: as their numbers are increasing and ours decreasing. Just simple math...)

Quote :

The family also represents a barrier to the state as it poses an influence upon the child's upbringing which may interfere with the values the state wishes to produce. The family recreates itself. The state produces citizens. There is a difference.

You and I and especially the western kids of today are raised to become citizens. THEY on the other hand raise their children as people. (Maybe barbaric people, whatever value judgment we wish to make: but certainly NOT statist drones...)

Quote :

Values must be arrived at rationally, not because they give you an emotional, or other personal, reward.
Look at how the studies on race and intelligence are quashed or ignored because someones delicate feelings are hurt.

Does that hurt your feelings?

Quote :

There must be a willingness to accept the necessity of suffering and to value knowledge more than suffering, because suffering is inevitable.

And you do have a significantly higher IQ than I do. I give you that. But isn't this whole IQ debate, becoming like a comparison of cock sizes. What does it signify? Rationality is valuable, but E-motions are what create children and families. Offspring. E-motion. There is "motion" in this term. Movement. Emotions move things. Rationality in the end may just be a tool to rationalize our failure. You have emotions, even with your high IQ. Discover them! In your korean documentary they also ridiculed the western decay by pointing to the high IQ of our leaders. IQ from my avarage IQ perspective was merely the ability of a person to reach high earning jobs. With the "end of money" it must seek new ways to engage itself or is becoming useless. Even an obstacle, as high-IQ couples live DINK-lives (double income no kids), because they pursue careers rather than family. If people just do jobs to survive, they are more open to having kids.

We cannot dismiss persons with lower IQs, because they are the masses. Or as Nietzsche put it:" Even if you can look through a person, doesn't mean you can get around them." (my translation)
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:48 am

Quote :
I never looked at it this way... Maybe it is because from here I cannot even access certain pagan or historical sites, that may be dealing with the history of WWII, that got me so confused. Maybe it is because there was never a peace treaty signed with us after WWII. That our "Grundgesetz" isn't even a constitution and its validity is highly uncertain. That we still have US troops on our soil...

What you stood for at the time was a nation based on race. You lost and were demonized and so by extension what you stood for also.

It's against German law to "deny" the Holocaust. That should make you suspicious at the least.

See if you are able to access any of the following:

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You could also try searching David Irving on Youtube, a british historian who was ostracised for asking these sorts of questions. Also Norman Finkelstein and David Cole.

Just realise that there are consequences to pursuing certain knowledge. This will probably get you in trouble.

Quote :
I agree with you on that. I don't try to talk to them, but I observe them and try to look at them objectivly.

Treat them like people unless they deserve otherwise. But show preference for your own.

Quote :
Where do I do that? I don't even discuss morality. It's a subject way below my taste.

I meant morality founded upon the commands of a god. Like Islam.

Morality is a value system, sense of right and wrong, good and bad. A nihilist holds this to be meaningless because these values are not inherent to existence, but simply inventions of humanity and therefore worthless.

I agree with the nihilist up to a point, but my position is that human beings create value based upon their instinctual drives, their Will to Power; that they cannot help doing this nor should they as it is their default nature.
If there is need or want in an act then there is Will to Power and therefore valuation. It's inevitable.

Therefore values being human inventions only and not inherently objective to existence as commandments of a god is irrelevant. Values are created by humans for their own use.

But like I said, they should be arrived at rationally, logically and not through simply what feels good, as ones intuition is not infallible.

Quote :
This is our western-centric pov. This is not what's going to happen. Just please look at the numbers, the demographics. What Satyr is mainly describing is the PAST. What's been happening in the West in the last decades. But this is coming to an end now. And Caesarism will rise. First violence... At least this is what I can observe in the news over here.

I don't think it will ever completely collapse. At most you will have places and groups like this one, living covertly within the system.

Quote :
Our hierachies are not THEIR hierarchies. Our laws are not their laws. (Sharia) And THEY are becoming the majority faster and faster. What I observe is a drop in their pretentiousness. They are becoming more blatant in their disrespect towards us. (Again: as their numbers are increasing and ours decreasing. Just simple math...)

Only because you tolerate it.

A hierarchy is a hierarchy. Think of a schoolyard. The boys taunt eachother. Push, push. They are seeing how far the other will let them go, how much he will put up with.

In doing so, they are establishing a hierarchy. This is the same.

But the problem here is not the Muslims. Ask yourself what happens to you when you speak against Immigration or Islam in a European country. Who will be the first to call you a bigot?

Your own.

What needs to happen is a change in the minds of the German people. The will to expel the other and reassert German identity is lacking because you guys like all the rest of the West are subject to mind games and guilt trips that prevent you from doing exactly that.

Quote :
Quote :
Values must be arrived at rationally, not because they give you an emotional, or other personal, reward.
Look at how the studies on race and intelligence are quashed or ignored because someones delicate feelings are hurt.

Does that hurt your feelings?

I don't have an emotional investment in it because I am not an Aborigine or a Negro. But I do know that East Asians and Ashkenazi Jews are on average a higher IQ than my own race's average. I don't care. It's reality. I'll beat them some other way.

Egalitarianism proposes that we are all blank slates at birth possessed of limitless potential. If we do not meet that potential it is because of our experiential past. This allows any individual failings to be blamed on upbringing, socio-economic disadvantage, or oppression.
But, if our potential is dictated by our genetics, and if certain races are shown to consistently excel or underperform in certain areas, then this leaves the egalitarian with nowhere to turn; people are fundamentally unequal and do not have limitless potential to be anything they want to be.

Consequently, the existence of race itself is entirely denied in the advancement of an egalitarian ideology which is in total denial of reality.

Quote :
We cannot dismiss persons with lower IQs, because they are the masses. Or as Nietzsche put it:" Even if you can look through a person, doesn't mean you can get around them." (my translation)

Too much thinking, not enough fucking. Yes, I completely agree.

People in the West nowadays are marrying late and producing offspring late. Women in their late 30s having their first child. Then taking maternity leave while carrying on working.

One of my professors in Art College was doing that. She missed half her classes.

This is Feminism. Women can't decide whether they're productive workers and providers (men) or whether they're mothers (women). So they waste their youth and conceive late, resulting in few children and increased risk of miscarriage.

They should be conceiving young and preferably as often as possible.

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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:35 pm

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Great forum! Thanks for having me.

Quote :

What you stood for at the time was a nation based on race. You lost and were demonized and so by extension what you stood for also.

Hitler, small jewish looking guy, dreaming of a supernation with tall blonde people. What irony!

Quote :

It's against German law to "deny" the Holocaust. That should make you suspicious at the least.

That with the un-accessible sites, was a wrong claim, sorry. At least too general, we're not China here. It's youtube vids and channels that are blocked. What surprises me, is that some even simply have PAGAN titles. No neonazi connected stuff whatsoever. Really harmless.

Quote :

You could also try searching David Irving on Youtube, a british historian who was ostracised for asking these sorts of questions. Also Norman Finkelstein and David Cole.

There was this german guy, I forgot his name, who had a trial in Canada for denying gas chambers. I saw his stuff on youtube in german with no problem, so they're not doing a good job "cleaning up", but looking into the youtube regulations for why one cannot access a certain (english language) vid ("This video is blocked in your country"), the only possible reason they give as an example is: Germany and Holocaust Nazi related vids.

Quote :

Just realise that there are consequences to pursuing certain knowledge. This will probably get you in trouble.

For research reasons there is an accessible site that provides "Mein Kampf", even as a well read Audio book, in german. It's been up forever. And I'm not interested in Neo-Nazi stuff, so I don't even search for those sites. I know some stuff is forbidden here.

Quote :

Treat them like people unless they deserve otherwise. But show preference for your own.

I've lost a lot of people to talk to, when I left my buddhist sangha. They were even openly anti-islamic there (which I am not). Or suspicious to the least. (which I am very much so in the demographic/immigration sense, because mulitculturalism, integration isn't working). But they were kind of cultish. So now they're suspicious towards me too. (Because I am no buddhist, that worships their leader.) So there just remains my bleeding heart democratic liberal family, I am working hard to convince otherwise and a few old friends (with liberal baggage too). And you guys! My virtual Sangha! Group hug!

Quote :

I meant morality founded upon the commands of a god. Like Islam.

Morality is a value system, sense of right and wrong, good and bad. A nihilist holds this to be meaningless because these values are not inherent to existence, but simply inventions of humanity and therefore worthless.

I simply doubt the dogmatic approach to morality of these secular humanists. Kafka's "Trial" is a book where you are forced to confess to yourself. It is undogmatic. After reading through it you feel like having taken a bath in a spiritual sense. And you're capable to do things, you weren't before.

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I agree with the nihilist up to a point, but my position is that human beings create value based upon their instinctual drives, their Will to Power; that they cannot help doing this nor should they as it is their default nature.

Agreed. I just do not discuss it. "Give me that old time religion. [...] It's good enough for me."

Quote :

If there is need or want in an act then there is Will to Power and therefore valuation. It's inevitable.

true.

Quote :

Therefore values being human inventions only and not inherently objective to existence as commandments of a god is irrelevant. Values are created by humans for their own use.

You lose me there. I don't give a damn were someones good behaviour comes from, as long as he does not step on my toes.

Quote :

But like I said, they should be arrived at rationally, logically and not through simply what feels good, as ones intuition is not infallible.

Neither is rationality. These youtube gurus give me headaches.
Young smart kids no doubt. But still KIDS. They should sit on the sidelines of KT Forum and learn a thing or two. Instead they blast out their mind numbing hour long vids to each other. At their age I read books and little later tested my views in Philosophy online forums. These kids are hyperactive and don't read books. Satyr can make a vid, with a script or some notes. Satyr could even drunk rant and it'd be valuable, but he has life experience. These cool kids on the other hand..., boys really.

Quote :

I don't think it will ever completely collapse. At most you will have places and groups like this one, living covertly within the system.

Read Luhmann. System theory. There is not ONE system, but social systemS. Plural. (You're indoctrinated by the Frankfurt school of thought, unknowingly. Adorno and other neo-marxists.)

The collapse goes unnoticed. It's the gradual changes, that prevent us, from seeing the bigger picture.

Quote :

Quote:
Our hierachies are not THEIR hierarchies. Our laws are not their laws. (Sharia) And THEY are becoming the majority faster and faster. What I observe is a drop in their pretentiousness. They are becoming more blatant in their disrespect towards us. (Again: as their numbers are increasing and ours decreasing. Just simple math...)


Only because you tolerate it.

I am weak. And just one, they are many.

Quote :

A hierarchy is a hierarchy. Think of a schoolyard. The boys taunt eachother. Push, push. They are seeing how far the other will let them go, how much he will put up with.

I am trying to get in shape.

Quote :

In doing so, they are establishing a hierarchy. This is the same.

But the problem here is not the Muslims. Ask yourself what happens to you when you speak against Immigration or Islam in a European country. Who will be the first to call you a bigot?

Your own.

That's why I will vote next time. As a compromise. Like Heidegger.

Quote :

What needs to happen is a change in the minds of the German people. The will to expel the other and reassert German identity is lacking because you guys like all the rest of the West are subject to mind games and guilt trips that prevent you from doing exactly that.

Most of my friends are a lot older than I am. In fact all of them. What worries me is TIME. Will there be enough time, to turn things around? We're losing in numbers by the minute.

Quote :

I don't have an emotional investment in it because I am not an Aborigine or a Negro. But I do know that East Asians and Ashkenazi Jews are on average a higher IQ than my own race's average. I don't care. It's reality. I'll beat them some other way.

How do you know I am not an Ashkenazi Jew? Or east asian? We don't want to "beat" anyone. That's why Satyr keeps repeating this "memes over genes"-mantra. Kafka was a jew. And the Japanese culture was highly traditional and had very superior values.

Quote :

Egalitarianism proposes that we are all blank slates at birth possessed of limitless potential. If we do not meet that potential it is because of our experiential past. This allows any individual failings to be blamed on upbringing, socio-economic disadvantage, or oppression.

We learnt that from Pinker. Another jew!

Quote :

But, if our potential is dictated by our genetics, and if certain races are shown to consistently excel or underperform in certain areas, then this leaves the egalitarian with nowhere to turn; people are fundamentally unequal and do not have limitless potential to be anything they want to be.

And so the dumb ones become street fighters or soldiers.

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Consequently, the existence of race itself is entirely denied in the advancement of an egalitarian ideology which is in total denial of reality.

"Energy goes where attention flows." Let them talk to each other.

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Too much thinking, not enough fucking. Yes, I completely agree.

And you cannot fuck THEIR women (if you wanted to) or their families will harm you. But they do fuck our women. Plus ours are getting old.

Quote :

This is Feminism. Women can't decide whether they're productive workers and providers (men) or whether they're mothers (women). So they waste their youth and conceive late, resulting in few children and increased risk of miscarriage.

They should be conceiving young and preferably as often as possible.

I see them with negroes here too. And having kids with negroes.
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:25 pm

When i was younger i used to fuck their women. When i lived in the US. I no longer have that taste.

The Europeans have been divided. We cant make that go away, at least not individually.
If i had a shitload of cash(this is not my idea btw but its the best ive heard so far) i'd start buying land in poland and start building houses and only sell them to likeminded people from a previously set up network. I know it will probably be infiltrated by marxism since the automatic setting of someone infected with marxism is to "seek and destroy heretics". By cowardly means of course. But i would only sell the houses to people i know personally at first. I hear its pretty easy to live under the radar in poland.
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:56 pm

Quote :
For research reasons there is an accessible site that provides "Mein Kampf", even as a well read Audio book, in german. It's been up forever. And I'm not interested in Neo-Nazi stuff, so I don't even search for those sites. I know some stuff is forbidden here.

It's on sale in book stores here in Ireland. No big deal. It has the usual cautionary foreword, but it's not stigmatized. We were neutral during the war after all.

Quote :
I simply doubt the dogmatic approach to morality of these secular humanists.

I've always looked on Secular Humanism/Liberalism as Christianities successor. It's the same morality, minus the deity, which has been replaced by the State. All are equal before law, pity for the weak and the undeserving, charity as virtue. The concept of an ideal humanity, where each individual has inherent value simply by existing, inherent rights simply by being alive, is considered human simply because they are born.

There is too much inclusivity. An individual should be required to meet certain standards above a certain level in order to be given the privilege of participation in the group; this is the discriminatory capacity that is now deemed unhealthy. Above a certain intellect, above a certain economic status, etc.

The worst thing about democracy is that it gives anyone no matter how retarded or impressionable a vote equal to the best minds.
As a consequence, governance in democratic states becomes a manipulation of the mob, a steering and prodding of group think towards a desired end, mass-manipulation on a huge scale. This leads to a simplistic popularity contest over who can seduce the rabble best; a good actor, a good impersonator.

Quote :
Kafka's "Trial" is a book where you are forced to confess to yourself. It is undogmatic. After reading through it you feel like having taken a bath in a spiritual sense. And you're capable to do things, you weren't before.

It's been a while since I read that, but the impression Kafka gives to me is that he is satirizing an individuals unquestioning attitude to their participation in the state. The main character in the Trial is accused by nameless bureaucrats of an unspecified crime. Instead of fleeing, his investment in them is such that he trusts that they will have his best interests in mind and ensure justice is served. To abandon the state would be to abandon his life; he is trapped and completely at their mercy.
He is then strung along for a long time until eventually some goons show up and execute him.

I didn't get as far with the Castle, but that seemed much the same. A man begging to be admitted into the hierarchy and being denied at every turn.

Kafka is a very Jewish writer, you know. His perspective is fascinating, but should be treated as his own.

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Quote :
I don't think it will ever completely collapse. At most you will have places and groups like this one, living covertly within the system.

Read Luhmann. System theory. There is not ONE system, but social systemS. Plural. (You're indoctrinated by the Frankfurt school of thought, unknowingly. Adorno and other neo-marxists.)

The collapse goes unnoticed. It's the gradual changes, that prevent us, from seeing the bigger picture.

My position is really an elitist one. There is the common man, who participates in the popular cultural myths. He is the majority. The popular myths change from era to era, but he is consistent in his championing of what is popular.

My kind steps beyond what is popular. Beyond good and evil. Thinks for itself, creates meaning for itself.

The master and the slave, essentially.

The system represents the dominant meme at any one time. This of course changes, it is not one system, but ever fluctuating and changing as it responds to a shifting population of sentient animals. Peoples and nations and states and kingdoms and religions.

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I am weak. And just one, they are many.

You aren't. You and they are just afraid of speaking up. Take the risk, expose yourself to the blow that will follow. Show that you can take it.

Others will follow your example.

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Most of my friends are a lot older than I am. In fact all of them. What worries me is TIME. Will there be enough time, to turn things around? We're losing in numbers by the minute.

I don't know. But if we do nothing, it will be too late.

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How do you know I am not an Ashkenazi Jew? Or east asian? We don't want to "beat" anyone. That's why Satyr keeps repeating this "memes over genes"-mantra. Kafka was a jew. And the Japanese culture was highly traditional and had very superior values.

I know. I'm the one who introduced him to the Hagakure.

But you are a man. How does a man look at another man? And how does he look at a woman?

To a man, another man is a rival, a competitor. To a man a woman is a prize to be taken and owned. He will kill another man for her.

One cannot look at another who excels one and not feel hatred and envy, or the desire to overcome and surpass them at some level.

That is the masculine spirit. In this age of compromise and surrender it is becoming rare. This is another reason why a man instinctually finds the homosexual contemptible; they represent a deconstruction of masculinity; a shemale.

Negroes are great at sports, particularily running. But they are nowhere to be seen in weightlifting and swimming. Or, nowadays, boxing. (Olympic gold medalist is an Irish woman, Katie Taylor).
Outside that, East Asians, Germans and Jews dominate the Academic fields. On average, they produce the best minds.

My position here, which I've made before on this forum, is that Caucasians occupy the balance between intellectuality and physicality, resulting in their dominance of the world. They didn't over-specialize.

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And you cannot fuck THEIR women (if you wanted to) or their families will harm you. But they do fuck our women. Plus ours are getting old.

Your women don't practice the discriminatory in-group out-group selectivity that theirs do. This is the inclusivity/egalitarianism again.

Quote :
I see them with negroes here too. And having kids with negroes.


Those are dumb bitches with daddy issues. They'll end up as single mothers raising a niglet.

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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:23 am

Laconian wrote:
And do you care about the future of "life on earth"? Isn't that like caring for "humanity"?
No, because my offspring are the future, and I must do all I can to ensure that threats to their existence are eradicated.

Quote :
Could you please expand on these "fossil records". What are they? and what do they proof or suggest!?
The fossil record clearly indicates a trend in hominid populations towards greater intelligence, away from regressive simian traits still found in non-European stocks. This is because intelligence has shown itself to be the ultimate evolutionary weapon, more powerful than any tooth or claw or physical trait. But one cannot do without the latter entirely of course.

Apoasha wrote:
The idea of a biological untermensch is not an idea the "liberal media" would consider. They operate from the premise of egalitarianism.

What do you mean?
When I use the term biological untermensch I am describing the mixed race ideal perpetuated by the liberal media.
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:15 am

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I don't have an emotional investment in it because I am not an Aborigine or a Negro. But I do know that East Asians and Ashkenazi Jews are on average a higher IQ than my own race's average. I don't care. It's reality. I'll beat them some other way.
Unlike the difference between blacks and other races the IQ differences between whites and Asians is quite small though, and may be partly explained away by the type of schooling that predominates in Asia where there is an emphasis on traditional subjects like math and science as well as the dumbing down of the West.
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:48 am

Kafka can be categorized within "Psychology". Just like Freud and Pinker, the other two great "jewish" minds to analyse human life. (The jewish race is very young, so I would not consider it a race. But to the authorities reading this: I do not deny WWII death camps.) It is not a spiritual pagan root text. I am 3/4 nordic german (Caucasian) descent and 1/4 japanese. So my spiritual pagan roots lie within the nordic Edda, the Nibelungen, and to a lesser degree in Shinto, Hagakure and Buddhism. (Though I would not consider the tibetan kind of Buddhism, Buddhism, but a mixture of Hinduism, Shamanism, Judeo-Christianity and Buddhism.) Please keep this in mind. To dismiss Kafka is like to dismiss Freud or Pinker, in my opion, which I will explain below. It is not however a work one can find any spiritual refuge in. It's an ice cold analysis of our lives without roots. And gives an EXTRA motivation to search for these roots, to NOT end up like Josef K. in "The trial" and by that I don't just mean the "execution" in the end, I mean the troubled quest throughout the book. It is a WARNING. A very serious warning for modern man!

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It's been a while since I read that, but the impression Kafka gives to me is that he is satirizing an individuals unquestioning attitude to their participation in the state.

The commentary on Kafka is larger than of Goethe and Shakespeare combined. You read "The Trial"? It was a classmate in my last school year that introduced me to it. There also was another guy back then. I loved it, I was completly hooked on it. Read it 6 times up to today, later bought the audio book. Well, the other guy from that clique, later went for humanitarian aid to Africa. He studied History, I believe and his girlfriend was a social pedagogue. He called me a Nazi back in school. (Up to today he is the only one who ever did so.) And he called me out for having two girlfriends at the same time, before one of them. When I was driving him and her and his girlfriend also, him in the back, so I couldn't punch him. Well, he was a liberal asshole with no sense for "Männerbund". And he HATED the book. He couldn't finish past a couple of pages. Though he was a smart guy with good grades and all, even tall and blonde like Siegfried. That to me kind of "proves": it is about conscience. That liberal asshole was confronted with his "demons", and didn't like what he saw. So he blamed it on Kafka.

Quote :

The main character in the Trial is accused by nameless bureaucrats of an unspecified crime. Instead of fleeing, his investment in them is such that he trusts that they will have his best interests in mind and ensure justice is served. To abandon the state would be to abandon his life; he is trapped and completely at their mercy.
He is then strung along for a long time until eventually some goons show up and execute him.

Yes and no. That is a trivializing interpretation. Why use big words such as "the state"? Other even worse interpreters use "God", especially when discussing "the Castle". Top-Down instead of Bottom-up thinkers. Kafka first wrote the first and then the last chapter of "The Trial". And then he worked his way from there. The two "goons" in the end... Do they really force him? Is there really an outside force putting him on "trial"? The original german title is "Der Prozess", which can be translated as "The trial". But a "Prozess" is also a process. Flux. I read all of Kafka, so I can relate a lot more info. It's an ongoing trial, an ongoing process. That is present every moment. No rest. No final verdict. Only a certain end in death. The allegory to me are the looks that people give each other. We are all judging each other all the time. And we can't help but feel judged. (Kafka had to be an alienated "jewish" outsider to get this feel for it.) Or as Niklas Luhmann put it: "There is no non-communication amongst attendees" (the internet has opened boundaries here). We're alienated. Must face our own judges. Mirrors everywhere. Unless we find a purpose. Unless we come to know ourselve. And stop running from ourselve. But to present this option would be lame and no challenge to the reader to come to this conclusion by himself. He included it in the "Gatekeeper" text I posted in "Quotes and Excerpts".

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I didn't get as far with the Castle, but that seemed much the same. A man begging to be admitted into the hierarchy and being denied at every turn.

It's less perfectly written. It is Kafkas Autobiography. "The Trial" (Der Prozess) is actually showing the passive side of human existence. The Josef K. in "The trial" is merely re-acting all of the time and making a complete fool out of himself, entangling himself further and further in his trial, seeking for the root of his troubled conscience. Wheras the K. of "The castle" is an active seeker. He is not reactionary, but ambitiously, sometimes ruthlessly, working towards his aim: the Castle. And he is not denied at every turn. He gets his opportunities to advance his case. There are setbacks of course. The "Before the law" text that I posted in "Quotes and Excerpts", also included in "the Trial" offers the "solution". Why does the man before the law not just pass the gatekeeper? Why doesn't he just do what he wants to do? Live his life, not caring about others judgements? Pursue his dreams? Because there is a force of gravity that is holding him back. "Hell is other people." He feels intimidated, by a Hannibal Lecter Avatar or a horned beast. Or a gatekeeper claiming to be powerful. Or women not paying attention to him.

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Kafka is a very Jewish writer, you know. His perspective is fascinating, but should be treated as his own.

Yes. And that is root-less. Without an own identity. Like Freud and Pinker and all the other brilliant jews. Einstein, who provided us with powerful knowledge that is capable to change the world and our lives.

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My position is really an elitist one. There is the common man, who participates in the popular cultural myths. He is the majority. The popular myths change from era to era, but he is consistent in his championing of what is popular.

With your IQ you should be able to understand Luhmann easily. He is very unpopular and after I finished and understood "Social Systems", my intellectual vanity went through the roof. I think once I finish Spenglers "Decline of the West" and Nietzsches "Will to power" that might boost my ego again some.

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My kind steps beyond what is popular. Beyond good and evil. Thinks for itself, creates meaning for itself.

The master and the slave, essentially.

The system represents the dominant meme at any one time. This of course changes, it is not one system, but ever fluctuating and changing as it responds to a shifting population of sentient animals. Peoples and nations and states and kingdoms and religions.

You will get a grip of Luhmann. Take your time. There is not one matrix. There is more than one. Each one bears its own benefits. You cannot escape, but you can't fall down so easily either.

The master is also a slave. See the "Der Prügler" scene from "The Trial". English title may be "the hitter" or "the punisher". It's a guy whipping two men, in a room at Josef K.s bankjob, I believe. He has to hit them, otherwise he will lose his job, which is whipping guilty people. I believe the next day Josef K. comes back to the room and the scene is turned around. The ones who were the slaves before, were then the masters of the former master.

You still think very much top-down with your big methaphors "THE system" or "the STATE". That is too unspecific.

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I don't know. But if we do nothing, it will be too late.

Habermas kind of was the intellectual contra to Luhmann. And he proposed this action theory. Luhmann said it's communication what gets things moving, actions are of the past.

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I know. I'm the one who introduced him to the Hagakure.

26 years old...I'm 32. Wow. If I'd heard of Satyr earlier...maybe I would have been able to avoid some mess in the past. But I try to be grateful for all that I experienced. And know to have lots of work ahead of me, internalizing this knowledge and accepting it: even the unflattering parts, my mixed-race for example.

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But you are a man. How does a man look at another man? And how does he look at a woman?

To a man, another man is a rival, a competitor. To a man a woman is a prize to be taken and owned. He will kill another man for her.

Read Evolas notes on "Männerbund".

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One cannot look at another who excels one and not feel hatred and envy, or the desire to overcome and surpass them at some level.

Yes, but once one does so, one feels emptyness and pity.

Quote :

That is the masculine spirit. In this age of compromise and surrender it is becoming rare. This is another reason why a man instinctually finds the homosexual contemptible; they represent a deconstruction of masculinity; a shemale.

Homosexuals are those who do not integrate their own femininity. They are supressing their femininity so hard that it comes back at them. They are all about rationality and logic. Very narcissist. Egomaniacs. Appollonian calculators. Suppressing Dionysos completely. If one wouldn't know Satyrs masculine voice, just by his texts which are very analytical, one might suspect him to be gay. Wittgenstein was. Some say Luhmann was.
Foucault was. You can find analytical brilliance amongst gays. That youtuber fringeelements admited to be gay.

Quote :

My position here, which I've made before on this forum, is that Caucasians occupy the balance between intellectuality and physicality, resulting in their dominance of the world. They didn't over-specialize.

Thats what Westerners like to believe: that the white man dominates the world. But the US is highly in debt towards China, I heard. China is now buying into the EU as well.

I look for leaders. Satyr is a leader. He could lead a movement. Because he isn't trying. Instead he carefully puts his fingers in everyones wounds. That to me has mythological character.

I have always learnt from teachers. Dead or alive. Guru Yoga. You suck up all the info/essence you can get from them and than you melt into the light form of this teacher. And you "become" them. In essence you than are your teacher. You're still yourselve with all your worldly problems and ego ticks, genes, but you can put on that persona. The huna shamans call it grogging.

I have grogged Satyr on Thursday (to the best of my restricted ability). And it was an awful experience for the person I met with. But I'm glad I did.

Quote :

Your women don't practice the discriminatory in-group out-group selectivity that theirs do. This is the inclusivity/egalitarianism again.

Because they were brainwashed, instead of raised to self-love. But you now know I am not pure white myself. I won't procreate. I consider myself a genetic dead end. My race-mix also lead to confusion in the past. Within me and around me. Today I am okay with my forced urban eremit status. I am almost invisible to most people (just those western tibetan buddhists kind of worship me). And I don't consider myself genetic feces. (German and Japanese being noble races.) Just a premature genetic dead end by self-aware choice. And if a women wishes to have kids with me, I'd be open to adopting a child. Not from Africa, but from here. My race mixture is my burden. It is a blessing to be able to understand some of both my heritage cultures. But I don't belong into one completly. If anything it has made me more aware. I had my crisis. Especially I feel utterly mediocre. Like I can never reach excellence in anything I do. Which makes me try extra hard.

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Those are dumb bitches with daddy issues. They'll end up as single mothers raising a niglet.

My parents broke apart too. Mixed racial couples don't work. It is an animalistic lure that brings man and woman together, but people should be aware not to produce offspring on a lack of racial same-ness.

-------------------

You mentioned an art class. Did you draw your avatar picture?


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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:42 am

Recidivist wrote:
Laconian wrote:
And do you care about the future of "life on earth"? Isn't that like caring for "humanity"?

No, because my offspring are the future, and I must do all I can to ensure that threats to their existence are eradicated.

And what is your "kind"? Just your kids? What markers do you use to define your kind? (Racial and memetic.)

Quote :
The fossil record clearly indicates a trend in hominid populations towards greater intelligence, away from regressive simian traits still found in non-European stocks. This is because intelligence has shown itself to be the ultimate evolutionary weapon, more powerful than any tooth or claw or physical trait. But one cannot do without the latter entirely of course.

Do you have a source for this information?

Robin Dunbar considered the increase in social interactions the reason for the increase in brain size of homo sapiens. Terence McKenna proposed psylocibin mushrooms, which our ancestors ate unaware of their mind altering effects, which later led to a change in physiognomy.
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:31 pm

In a world dominated by humans, where the term “world” means the human world, and where natural environment have been replaced by human constructs, we can no longer speak of a human species trying to stay alive within a threatening environments.
Within this growing uniformity, there is a counter movement – an equal and opposite (re)action which is fragmenting along memetic lines.
Now identity is based on ideals, ideas, values, morals: memes.

Intelligence also explains the dominance of particular tribes, races, within the context of human history.
When instincts remain uncontrolled intelligence becomes a tool for satisfying base primal desires and never attain to anything beyond this.

For me the defining meme of my kind, as I understand it, is nobility, and courage coupled with intelligence.
I now know that nobility, as I’ve defined it elsewhere, is not nurtured, but one must be born with the ingredients to bring it about.
Not to deny one’s self pleasure, but to control one’s indulgence in it in accordance to one’s constitution.

“Know Thyself” is just that…and “Nothing in Excess” is the outcome.

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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:41 am

Quote :
It is not however a work one can find any spiritual refuge in. It's an ice cold analysis of our lives without roots. And gives an EXTRA motivation to search for these roots, to NOT end up like Josef K. in "The trial" and by that I don't just mean the "execution" in the end, I mean the troubled quest throughout the book. It is a WARNING. A very serious warning for modern man!

Then we agree.

Quote :
You read "The Trial"?

Yes, and some of the Castle. I also saw that movie with Jeremy Irons. This was years ago when I was a teenager though.

For me it wasn't Kafka that made an impression on my youth but Hesse. Demian in particular. From him I went to Nietzsche.

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Habermas kind of was the intellectual contra to Luhmann. And he proposed this action theory. Luhmann said it's communication what gets things moving, actions are of the past.

Communication is not action?

No armed revolutions here, just an increasing divergence of ideas. The armed revolutions will come when the ideas, the memetic infections, have spread far enough.

There is not an age where action has become impossible. There are just brief interludes of stifling peacetime before the next big war.

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Quote :
One cannot look at another who excels one and not feel hatred and envy, or the desire to overcome and surpass them at some level.

Yes, but once one does so, one feels emptyness and pity.

Read Nietzsche on Schopenhauer.

The joy is in the striving. Beyond that, the world is just as it should be, leading to indifference, emptiness. Indifference is an indication of power.
On to the next conquest, on to more striving, more struggle, more pain and misery and joy and fulfillment and disappointment.

We overcome not to attain perfection or a final end, not as a justification or excuse for overcoming. We overcome to overcome. We live to live.

There is no justification for life beyond life. All else leads to nihilism.
Peace is a means to new wars. See my signature.

Quote :
Homosexuals are those who do not integrate their own femininity. They are supressing their femininity so hard that it comes back at them. They are all about rationality and logic. Very narcissist. Egomaniacs. Appollonian calculators. Suppressing Dionysos completely. If one wouldn't know Satyrs masculine voice, just by his texts which are very analytical, one might suspect him to be gay. Wittgenstein was. Some say Luhmann was.
Foucault was. You can find analytical brilliance amongst gays. That youtuber fringeelements admited to be gay.

Why do you consider analytical rationality to be effeminate? Isn't the ordering, logical mind masculine, as opposed to the emotive, intuitive feminine?

My position starts with the gender roles.
The male is expendable; he carries an unlimited supply of sperm and can fertilize a huge amount of women in his lifetime.
The woman is not expendable; she has a limited supply of eggs, spends a long time in pregnancy and can only bring a small amount of children fully to term and wean them.

This is the basic gender difference.

From here, men, because they are expendable, compete with eachother for access to the females. The losers in this contest are killed or outcast.
This contest actively selects for domineering, strong, inventive, challenging, aggressive traits in the male.
This is not to say that it selects for the opposite in the female, but that there is no pressure for doing so, so these traits will be less apparent or strongly developed.

It is through this competitive sexual role that a man defines himself. He needs to be powerful, he needs to be intelligent, in order to overcome the dominant alpha male and win the prize of procreation.
All human accomplishment derives from this basic capacity for a man to challenge the status quo, overcome it, surpass and through doing so prove his worth as a man.

A man is a man in order to possess women. Through doing so he cultivates the traits of manhood that are so precious to humanity.

A homosexual behaves like a woman in order to be possessed by a man. Through doing so any masculine traits he possesses wither and die. A homosexual is a symptom of decline.

In modernity, this selectivity is disappearing. All are permitted to breed because what is required are citizens - quantity not quality.
This is a product of the democratic system, rule by the mob. In the mob, only numbers matter. In the mob, there are no genders, no distinction. All are equal.

They live in a sheltered existence and participate in mutual masturbation. When they feel they must fulfill their duty, they have children. They then part soon afterwards, having felt no permanent connection.
Read Huxley.

Quote :
Thats what Westerners like to believe: that the white man dominates the world. But the US is highly in debt towards China, I heard. China is now buying into the EU as well.

I was speaking more in general terms of the history of Caucasians. In particular the last few centuries. The modern trend is one of decline. Others are stepping in to fill the void.

Quote :
Because they were brainwashed, instead of raised to self-love. But you now know I am not pure white myself. I won't procreate. I consider myself a genetic dead end. My race-mix also lead to confusion in the past. Within me and around me. Today I am okay with my forced urban eremit status. I am almost invisible to most people (just those western tibetan buddhists kind of worship me). And I don't consider myself genetic feces. (German and Japanese being noble races.) Just a premature genetic dead end by self-aware choice. And if a women wishes to have kids with me, I'd be open to adopting a child. Not from Africa, but from here. My race mixture is my burden. It is a blessing to be able to understand some of both my heritage cultures. But I don't belong into one completly. If anything it has made me more aware. I had my crisis. Especially I feel utterly mediocre. Like I can never reach excellence in anything I do. Which makes me try extra hard.

You're a mongrel, so you can't identify with the Germans or the Japanese. But you are a good mixture. At least you aren't half-negro.

I was learning to speak Japanese privately from a woman here who had married an Irishman. She had daughters, only 2 of whom I'd met. The one who wasn't still a child was rather isolated among the other girls and had difficulty making friends. She also developed a crush on me far too easily.
But she was a drifter. She didn't know who she was. She drifted through school and into college with little enthusiasm, still a child. But Japanese women are like that. Very feminine, very childlike, reserved and passive.
She was half and half, so there was the Irish cheekiness warring with the Samurai haughty reserve. Her ancestors were Samurai, apparently. Sometimes she'd have an enthusiastic outburst only to then suddenly stop, embarrassed.
I considered her Japanese. The Japanese no doubt considered her Irish.
You'll probably find yourself similarly conflicted and isolated.

You should procreate though. You are literally worthless if you do not pass on your genes. Find some silly otaku/buddhist/kendoka gaijin and knock her up. She'll love you for it.

Quote :
My parents broke apart too. Mixed racial couples don't work. It is an animalistic lure that brings man and woman together, but people should be aware not to produce offspring on a lack of racial same-ness.

Yes, my teacher appeared to be separated too. What was absurd was that the Irish husband lived and worked in Japan, while the Japanese (ex-)wife lived in Ireland.
I never asked, though, so maybe they weren't.

Quote :
You mentioned an art class. Did you draw your avatar picture?

No, that was from a thread by Lyssa: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Most of them aren't that great, but that one is beautiful.

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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:45 am

Recidivist wrote:
apaosha wrote:
I don't have an emotional investment in it because I am not an Aborigine or a Negro. But I do know that East Asians and Ashkenazi Jews are on average a higher IQ than my own race's average. I don't care. It's reality. I'll beat them some other way.
Unlike the difference between blacks and other races the IQ differences between whites and Asians is quite small though, and may be partly explained away by the type of schooling that predominates in Asia where there is an emphasis on traditional subjects like math and science as well as the dumbing down of the West.

You have to compare this to the average physicality of an East Asian. They're small and slender. Not very aggressive, bar the Japanese and the Mongols, in the past.

Aggression matters.

Niggers are all aggression, all emotion. But they have no intellectuality.

The median of the 2 is the Caucasian, the aggressive thinker.

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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:07 am

Laconian wrote:
Thats what Westerners like to believe: that the white man dominates the world. But the US is highly in debt towards China, I heard. China is now buying into the EU as well.
I remember the Asian 'tiger' economies in the 90's which everyone was raving about... until they collapsed. China is only a factory for cheap goods, enabling Western importers to make more profit. Turn off the tap and watch it sink.

Laconian wrote:
And what is your "kind"? Just your kids? What markers do you use to define your kind? (Racial and memetic.)
White Europe and its diaspora. Meme is not a term I like, it is a product of the simulacrum. Because of my own nature and cultural background I have always seen the world in strongly physical terms.

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Do you have a source for this information?
My source is the fossil record, showing a clear and undeniable trend in hominid evolution which has persisted for millions of years.

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Robin Dunbar considered the increase in social interactions the reason for the increase in brain size of homo sapiens. Terence McKenna proposed psylocibin mushrooms, which our ancestors ate unaware of their mind altering effects, which later led to a change in physiognomy.
It sounds like Lamarckism. Although epigenetics has opened the door to the possibility, there is little evidence to support it.

Most of what is euphemistically termed humanity today was condemned to extinction millions of years ago. Just as one would not continue to live in a town that was about to be hit by an asteroid, why treat biology any differently? At its root are mindless physical processes going about their business.
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:22 am

"The Ego is not master in its own house" (Freud) and our western culture is a judeo-christian one. Nietzsche too failed to turn that around.

Kafka read Nietzsche. What Nietzsche does is reactionary to the Bible. What Kafka does is reactionary to Nietzsche. Nietzsche was still dogmatic. Freud was too. Kafka is to Nietzsche, what Jung was to Freud. Much can be witnessed and distinguished on the surface, but there are underlying programs deeply rooted within this modern society.

Freud saw our suppressed sexuality. Kafka held us the mirror to see our deeply rooted religious programmings.

Kafka is the antidot to the Bible. "The trial" is the real "Antichrist". Kafka holds the power to set us free. To a freedom most of us DON'T want, because it's scary. And we don't know what to do with it.

At that point we can (and SHOULD in my opinion) turn to pagan dogmas as proposed by Satyr, Nietzsche and others and try to make them our own.

---------------------

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For me it wasn't Kafka that made an impression on my youth but Hesse. Demian in particular.

I will check it out.

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Communication is not action?

Exactly! It IS action. The old marxists don't understand that.

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Read Nietzsche on Schopenhauer.

I am not at ease at the moment to do so, with the required attention span. I had a large dose of Nietzsche in my early twenties. I am hooked on Satyrs texts at the moment. And leave other intellectual endeavours to you overmen.

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On to the next conquest, on to more striving, more struggle, more pain and misery and joy and fulfillment and disappointment.

Very poetic. Check out Marillion, the Fish years. "Script for a jesters tear" , "Misplaced Childhood" [...]

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We overcome not to attain perfection or a final end, not as a justification or excuse for overcoming. We overcome to overcome. We live to live.

Take this in contrast to the movie "A serious man".

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There is no justification for life beyond life. All else leads to nihilism.
Peace is a means to new wars. See my signature.

The peace sign is the death rune. "War is the father of all things." - Heraklit

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Why do you consider analytical rationality to be effeminate? Isn't the ordering, logical mind masculine, as opposed to the emotive, intuitive feminine?

That is correct, but the homosexual is not effeminate. He doesn't wish to be effeminate. It breaks out of him, because it is the female (dionysian) that he suppresses so hard. He is most afraid to be gay. So sometimes involuntarily his voice becomes feminine or he begins shaking his ass like a woman or other behaviors like that. It is involuntarily.

I am effeminate, but not gay. (Old boyish look.) My appereance is not very masculine, but I am straight. "Nothing in excess." : The easterners would propose "balance". Homosexuals are out of balance towards the masculine end of the memetic spectrum. They focus JUST on the masculine, appollonian, rational, ordering, logical...they don't give any space to the feminine: hedonism, emotions, passiveness, drifting.

I was on a Christopher Street Day over here once, drifting. I never felt THAT invisible. I wasn't hit on. They sense I am not gay, because I AM a cool motherfucker. Unlike them, who try their best to pose as cool straight machos, but all fail miserably. ("Queens and fairies, these muscle Marys, who in their pathetic own way, deny they're gay..."- Pet Shop Boys) I admit to my female-ness, to my emotional needs

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Marillion Script For A Jester's Tear Lyrics
Songwriters: DICK, DEREK WILLIAM/KELLY, MARK/TREWAVAS, PETE
(Derek Dick/Steve Rothery/ Pete Trewavas/ Micheal Pointer/Mark Kelly)

So here I am once more
In the playground of the broken hearts
One more experience, one more entry in a diary, self-penned
Yet another emotional suicide
Overdosed on sentiment and pride
Too late to say I love you
Too late to restage the play
Abandoning the relics in my playground of yesterday

I'm losing on the swings
I'm losing on the roundabouts
I'm losing on the swings
I'm losing on the roundabouts
Too much, too soon, too far to go, too late to play
The game is over, the game is over

So here I am once more
In the playground of the broken hearts
I'm losing on the swings
I'm losing on the roundabouts
The game is over

Yet another emotional suicide
Overdosed on sentiment and pride
I'm losing on the swings
I'm losing on the roundabouts, roundabouts, the game is over

Too late to say I love you
Too late to restage the play
The game is over

I act the role in classic style
Of a martyr carved with twisted smile
To bleed the lyric for this song
To write the rites to right my wrongs
An epitaph to a broken dream
To exercise this silent scream
A scream that's born from sorrow

I never did write that lovesong
The words just never seemed to flow
Now sad in reflection did I gaze through perfection
And examine the shadows on the other side of morning
And examine the shadows on the other side of morning
Promised wedding now a wake
Promised wedding now a wake, awake

The fool escaped from paradise
Will look over his shoulder and cry
Sit and chew on daffodils and struggle to answer "Why?"
As you grow up and leave the playground
Where you kissed your prince and found your frog
Remember the jester that showed you tears, the script for tears

So I'll hold our peace forever when you wear your bridal gown
In the silence of my shame the mute that sang the sirens' song
Has gone solo in the game
I've gone solo in the game, but the game is over

Can you still say you love me
Can you still say you love me
Can you still say that you love me
Do you love me
Do you love me
Do you love me
Do you love me, the jester's tear

Can you still say you love me
Can you still say you love me
Can you still say that you love me?

The jester's tear, the jester's tear
Do you love me

Marillion from the Fish-years, the best!) and my weakness, as I would to my gay-ness. If I were gay. But if I were, I would be more rational also, more successful in life. Cause that's what gays are: manly men, orderly, clean, up to the point of overdoing it, who exclude all of the female nature in life, that the japanese culture so well expresses in their Shinto. In Shintoism everything can be regarded as Kami (God). That's why you see them photographing everything. Fetishism.

I just checked the dictionary. The english language is really nondisriminatory (stupid) in the subject of gays. To you, queers and fags and all those terms mean the same. In reality there are mayor differences. Sometimes they are almost opposites. What I described above is the general type. 90 some percent of them. You focus on the other 10 percent or less who are "Tunten", who publicly display their feminity and do so willingly and openly and even dress up as drag queens.

Take that "Fish", the old Marillion singer for example. He isn't gay. But he is not particularly masculine either.
To me he is a complete man, with little too much Dionysos. And Satyr is a complete man with little much Appollo. Whereas gays lack (the Dionysian). They are incomplete. And the subgroup: "Tunten" are imbalanced way towards the Dionysian and lack male order. (In this regard I am in the last group of the "Tunten" , but without the homosexual interest. My struggle is to get male order in my life. Therefor to find Satyr was a blessing for me. He pushed me forward a lot. That Manhood Academy free pdf did too, with which my journey began in December of last year.)

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This contest [for females] actively selects for domineering, strong, inventive, challenging, aggressive traits in the male.

Not anymore. We live in Socialism. At least in Germany. Females prefer the adapted little manicured puppy dogs. The more artificial the better. A trained to be white negro is top of the line.

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All human accomplishment derives from this basic capacity for a man to challenge the status quo, overcome it, surpass and through doing so prove his worth as a man.

We're blind to what the status quo even is, because we know nothing else. We've only read stories about other ways of life. ( I guess the Irish are somewhat more secluded. I visited at the age of 11, so my memory is blurred. )

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A homosexual behaves like a woman in order to be possessed by a man. Through doing so any masculine traits he possesses wither and die. A homosexual is a symptom of decline.

Have you ever met and talked to homosexuals? They are nothing like that. What you describe is a "Tunte" (German), a drag. A transsexual. (They may engage in the same sexual practices, but they are not your regular homosexual. They are a minority in that group.) Someone who wishes to (and sometimes does so by operation) change his sex organs. They're both symptoms of a decline, no doubt. When gays fuck, it is a fight, about who gets to dominate who. Statistically there is the most domestic violence in these relationships, to my knowledge. Lesbians too. They too play-act manliness and disregard the dionysian! That's why the Joker had such an impact in that Batman movie. "Intruducing a little anarchy", to the queer modernized rationality pretending people. He of course knowing what anarchy means unlike the Ron Paul followers.

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In modernity, this selectivity is disappearing. All are permitted to breed because what is required are citizens - quantity not quality.
This is a product of the democratic system, rule by the mob. In the mob, only numbers matter. In the mob, there are no genders, no distinction. All are equal.

Sad but true.

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They live in a sheltered existence and participate in mutual masturbation. When they feel they must fulfill their duty, they have children. They then part soon afterwards, having felt no permanent connection.

Yes.

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Read Huxley.

I saw both film versions of "Brave New World" on youtube. I think Huxleys writing style is terrible. The info included is spot on.

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I was speaking more in general terms of the history of Caucasians. In particular the last few centuries. The modern trend is one of decline. Others are stepping in to fill the void.

Yes and we should observe their memes too, not just be disgusted by their different looks.

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You're a mongrel, so you can't identify with the Germans or the Japanese. But you are a good mixture. At least you aren't half-negro.

Thanks for pointing that out. I don't identify with any fucking one. I am drift wood. But I so want to belong! Like Patrick Bateman said in the American Psycho film, after having been asked by his wife, why he keeps his job, even if he doesn't need the money: "Because, I WANT TO FIT IN." I do love my familiy however.

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She also developed a crush on me far too easily.

Yes, we are desparate. And love to be in love. This gives our life meaning.

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But she was a drifter. She didn't know who she was. She drifted through school and into college with little enthusiasm, still a child. But Japanese women are like that. Very feminine, very childlike, reserved and passive.
She was half and half, so there was the Irish cheekiness warring with the Samurai haughty reserve. Her ancestors were Samurai, apparently. Sometimes she'd have an enthusiastic outburst only to then suddenly stop, embarrassed.
I considered her Japanese. The Japanese no doubt considered her Irish.
You'll probably find yourself similarly conflicted and isolated.

Yes. And YOU are the first person who understands, besides one or two friends I have, who don't engage me in this topic, to cover for their own weaknesses. There are many stories like that told on youtube by mixed-racials. Bi-racials. Multi-racials. All in english. (In Germany, when I searchengine these terms all I find is "dog breeds". It's all because of this WWII brainwashing here, that we cannot engage this important topic of race.) "Mixed-Racial" is the fastest growing demographic in the US. They're even changing papers accordingly. I spent a year in the US as a student and was exceptionally well accepted there. One of many and no special exotic freak.

My parents don't accept me. My mother is full of self hate. She is the biracial one, with the japanese roots. And my father the aryan Übermensch (but with all the liberal brainwashed memes) thinks of me as weak and inferior, but would never admit that it is in any way linked to my race. He's with a blonde woman now. By pure chance of course. Right!

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You should procreate though. You are literally worthless if you do not pass on your genes. Find some silly otaku/buddhist/kendoka gaijin and knock her up. She'll love you for it.

Yea. There is one I have been seeing. She isn't too smart either. She has an old on and off boyfriend though. The Aryan Übermensch kind. He treats here like shit of course. Well, here is the beta-male standing in line to pick up the leftovers. (I'd never adopt anothers kid, that was bullshit.) And an Ex, who dumped me after a year to experience alpha cock. She's the hyper intelligent kind. She called me a "Tunte", that spoiled brat, cause of my not overly male appereance. I wanted to fuck her doggystyle, which she said was not a "personal" position. (Modernized Women want to gaze in the eyes and shit.) China and Japan don't go too well either I assume. They're both younger than me, in their late twenties.

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The median of the 2 is the Caucasian, the aggressive thinker.

That's what I hate most about those "buddhists". They want me to not be aggressive and constantly point out my anger. They say it's an interfering emotion [german: Störgefühl]. Well, it's my backbone also. So they can fuck off. Except some of the silly hens. I like silly hens. Even the feminist ones. They can suck on my tiny asian noodle. Or I'll call them racists!


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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:28 am

Quote :

I remember the Asian 'tiger' economies in the 90's which everyone was raving about... until they collapsed. China is only a factory for cheap goods, enabling Western importers to make more profit. Turn off the tap and watch it sink.

The "tap" in this regard being our western "consumerism"!? But that is a MEME, too!
There you have it! You cannot do without the term meme, otherwise you couldn't even think.
Much less could you change a degenerating society to adapt other memes, than the ones that got us in this mess, we are in.
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:00 am

A general question since I am not a native english speaker. Should we even use the term "gender"? Doesn't that imply the nurture theory. The blank slate myth. That the SEXES are a social construct? Or is it a term to be reclaimed from those Feminazis!? Should we use it? Or drop it and just say "the sexes" or "male and female"?
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:30 am

Quote :
What Kafka does is reactionary to Nietzsche.

I never found Kafka to be that big of a deal, really. He presents a cautionary tale of the individuals relationship to the state. That's it.

Quote :
That is correct, but the homosexual is not effeminate. He doesn't wish to be effeminate. It breaks out of him, because it is the female (dionysian) that he suppresses so hard. He is most afraid to be gay. So sometimes involuntarily his voice becomes feminine or he begins shaking his ass like a woman or other behaviors like that. It is involuntarily.

It is certainly not involuntary. I suggest you take an interest in observing how much care a homosexual takes in his appearance and the signals he gives out. Just like a woman.

I don't know about you, but round here most of them are the effeminate type. My art college is full of them.

I try to go by my own experience, but the behaviours I've observed in one, carry through to the rest.

This guy is thin and short. He stands with shoulders slumped and arms folded defensively around him. His knee is slightly bent and turned in. He wears tight clothing and has one of those "scene" haircuts, dyed yellow. He is typically very withdrawn, never speaks up. He is friends with the girls and tends to latch on to one or another of them. I've never seen him speak to a normal male, even the betas. He seems to be afraid of them, of how they will react to him or treat him.
Now he is an extreme case, but I'm around him the most so he's my archetype I suppose.

In the case of others, there's one guy studying fashion design who is more extroverted. He is quite charming, sociable and doesn't allow himself to be walked over in the same way. But he is just as soft. His confidence derives from complacency. Challenge him and he suddenly deflates and recoils.

Both are effeminate. In fact I'm not even sure about the second guy. He could just be a metrosexual.

Here's one example of an Irish fag: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
^That was almost elected president. Would have been very embarrassing. Like I said, age of decline.

But to me, it's that they either reject or do not develop their masculinity.
Masculinity is more than analytical reasoning. It is also the will to confront, challenge, dominate the other. It has to do with aggression and willpower; the Will. A man is one who is willing to undergo a contest with another to prove himself. The willingness to fight off a competitor.... whether the competition itself is over a mate, over resources, over ideas or just over egos.
But this Will to dominate did not deveop in isolation. It developed in response to the pressures of male expendability and access to the females. It developed in response to the need for procreation.

My position is that a threat to either gender represents a threat to the survivability of the species.... or at least a threat to particular sections of the species who are in competition with other less feminized populations ... like we see in the modern age.

The homosexual male to me is an affront to manhood.

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I am effeminate, but not gay. (Old boyish look.) My appereance is not very masculine, but I am straight. "Nothing in excess." : The easterners would propose "balance".

You sound like a metrosexual. A modern, feminized male. A girl with a penis and ballsack.

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Homosexuals are out of balance towards the masculine end of the memetic spectrum. They focus JUST on the masculine, appollonian, rational, ordering, logical...they don't give any space to the feminine: hedonism, emotions, passiveness, drifting.

I would say the opposite, that homosexuals, male homosexuals because we are talking about our gender only here, tend towards the feminine. Conflict avoidance, lack of aggression, ready emotive expression, proccupation with appearance, submissive body language, revealing clothing, etc.

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I just checked the dictionary. The english language is really nondisriminatory (stupid) in the subject of gays. To you, queers and fags and all those terms mean the same. In reality there are mayor differences. Sometimes they are almost opposites. What I described above is the general type. 90 some percent of them. You focus on the other 10 percent or less who are "Tunten", who publicly display their feminity and do so willingly and openly and even dress up as drag queens.

I know what you mean.
It has to do with which individual assumes the dominant/submissive role in their relationships. They're trying to imitate the gender roles of who gives/receives and the psychological types that these produce.

Again, it's distortion and decline of the the archetypes established through natural selection.

One hyper-masculine over-compensating "Man" and his little "Wife"..... forming a family.

I don't know whether there is an english word for these types beyond slang.

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Quote :
This contest [for females] actively selects for domineering, strong, inventive, challenging, aggressive traits in the male.

Not anymore. We live in Socialism. At least in Germany. Females prefer the adapted little manicured puppy dogs. The more artificial the better. A trained to be white negro is top of the line.

They've been indoctrinated. Or desensitized. They will still yearn for and be attracted to the bad boy who will give them the thrill their genes are looking for.

Aside from that, you've just discovered the dilemna of the modern age. Welcome to the club. Now chip in with some ideas on how to respond to it.

Quote :
Quote :
I was speaking more in general terms of the history of Caucasians. In particular the last few centuries. The modern trend is one of decline. Others are stepping in to fill the void.

Yes and we should observe their memes too, not just be disgusted by their different looks.

No, our genes are distinguished in that they have produced such great individuals and peoples in the past. To speak about the generality of a race within a species is to speak of the likelihood that generality has to produce an individual or people of a certain quality.

If one looks for quality, one must concede that quality does not appear among all groups evenly.

To speak about racial purity, or racialism in general, is to speak about the retaining of such potential for elevated characteristics which are not possessed by all.

This is not to dismiss the idea that certain groups cannot produce above a certain quality, because nothing is fixed, but that certain groups have a steadily decreasing likelihood of producing above a threshold.

No negro Beethovens or Aristotles. No Aboriginal Einstein. There is a reason for that beyond the usual socio-political narrative.

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And my father the aryan Übermensch (but with all the liberal brainwashed memes) thinks of me as weak and inferior, but would never admit that it is in any way linked to my race.

It may be because you are effeminate. You needn't be due to your heritage. Both sides have distinguished masculine traditions. But we are the products of both experiential as well as genetic pasts.

Your father could see you as a disappointment or mistake. Not living up to his expectations.

I toyed with the idea of getting involved with that half-japanese girl, but in the end I found myself preferring Irish women. I would miss the combination of fair skin, dark hair and light eyes, which is like my own.

We seek out our own in these instances.

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Yea. There is one I have been seeing. She isn't too smart either. She has an old on and off boyfriend though. The Aryan Übermensch kind. He treats here like shit of course. Well, here is the beta-male standing in line to pick up the leftovers. (I'd never adopt anothers kid, that was bullshit.) And an Ex, who dumped me after a year to experience alpha cock. She's the hyper intelligent kind. She called me a "Tunte", that spoiled brat, cause of my not overly male appereance. I wanted to fuck her doggystyle, which she said was not a "personal" position. (Modernized Women want to gaze in the eyes and shit.) China and Japan don't go too well either I assume. They're both younger than me, in their late twenties.

Yes, well.
You should have told her to shut up, then bent her over and fucked her senseless. Then completely ignored the shitstorm that followed.

In your case, she sees that she can rule you. A woman does not respect a man she can control. A woman loves a man who doesn't give a fuck about her. This is from experience.

A woman has to think you are doing her a favour by giving her your attention. That at any moment you are going to wander off if she becomes too boring. That she has to attract you, charm you and work to keep that charm going.

You have to prove that you are worthy for her. Indifference implies power, so by being indifferent you are suggesting that you have other options. That you are not dependent on this one woman for a pity relationship.

From the sound of it, you get treated like dirt.

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That's what I hate most about those "buddhists". They want me to not be aggressive and constantly point out my anger. They say it's an interfering emotion [german: Störgefühl]. Well, it's my backbone also. So they can fuck off. Except some of the silly hens. I like silly hens. Even the feminist ones. They can suck on my tiny asian noodle. Or I'll call them racists!

Remember that buddhism is at its heart nihilistic and world slandering.

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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:33 am

Laconian wrote:
A general question since I am not a native english speaker. Should we even use the term "gender"? Doesn't that imply the nurture theory. The blank slate myth. That the SEXES are a social construct? Or is it a term to be reclaimed from those Feminazis!? Should we use it? Or drop it and just say "the sexes" or "male and female"?

Gender is male/female. Either/or.

Perhaps in German there's an ambiguity, bot not so in English.

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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:38 am

Laconian wrote:
I am effeminate, but not gay. (Old boyish look.) My appereance is not very masculine, but I am straight.
How about a photo so we can judge for ourselves.... or laugh?
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:04 am

Laconian wrote:
Quote :

I remember the Asian 'tiger' economies in the 90's which everyone was raving about... until they collapsed. China is only a factory for cheap goods, enabling Western importers to make more profit. Turn off the tap and watch it sink.

The "tap" in this regard being our western "consumerism"!? But that is a MEME, too!
There you have it! You cannot do without the term meme, otherwise you couldn't even think.
Much less could you change a degenerating society to adapt other memes, than the ones that got us in this mess, we are in.
Memes do not exist independently of genes. It is our physical nature that gives rise to culture. I see no need for a separate theory based on a mutation of Darwin's thinking to explain it.
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:53 pm

I've posted my views on homosexuality in another thread. That's all I have to say on the subject really. It's about balance. The Appollonian has to dominate the Dionysian within a person. The Dionysian just cannot and should not be suppressed entirely, otherwise you see those SYMPTOMS, you see in the homosexuals you described (effeminate behaviour) and I described in the other topic.

I'm not effeminate. I take that back. I am not metrosexual either. I'm just partly asian that's all and have some of those features in my appearance. And according to Rushton, Asians are the weakest race. I may be overly critical with me. Just survival instinct, to not grow lazy and decadent like those fucking fags around me everywhere over here. (Here, the european men are either feminized or drunks. Rarely of a different sort. This is not an "army" to win a "war".)

For the difference between Appollonian (male) and Dionysian (female) read Nietzsche on the birth of the tragedy.

------------------------------------------

Quote :

Memes do not exist independently of genes. It is our physical nature that gives rise to culture. I see no need for a separate theory based on a mutation of Darwin's thinking to explain it.

That's true. But still you do think. You have thoughts. You have ideas. You have ideals. You have wishes, visions, plans, goals, preferences, opinions and so on. And these may be different from even the ones who are the closest genetically related to you have. So you have to express yourself to cause active change (order) in an environment that is subjected to entropy. That's why the term "meme" was coined. Not to reject or dismiss genes. I would not consider it a "mutation of Darwin's thinking". Its an extension (the idea doesn't change anything from the original concept), suited for more complex societies like our modernized ones, to create order within an encreasing entropy. Like Eugenics. But a Eugenics for ideas. Consider it an EXTENSION of genes rather than a mutation. Of course memes leave room for pretentiousness, unlike genes. Like on here one could pretend to be any race and some people do. But it shows of course.

Nothing mutates in the idea of memes as an extension of genes, nothing changes. But if you break a person down to his own gene set, no two persons are alike. So your race are the people you share the most and very significant genes with, but not all. And for your race to strive, you have to share these memes at least amongst each other. Therefor you have to communicate.

Like Satyr said: we live in a world of diminishing borders. Todays war is a war like no other. Because it is fought along mimetic lines, not physical borders. The Arabs are already here. And they are multiplying, whereas Europeans aren't. We're heading for a new Middle Ages in Europe. Unless we form some kind of an elite. Some kind of aristocracy within the mud. Like a lotus flower, that stays untainted and pure even in the mud.

Your memes are an expression of your genes. Nothing more, nothing less. But people cannot read your genes, especially on here, so you have to show them by expressing your memes. If you wish to, of course.
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:24 pm

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I never found Kafka to be that big of a deal, really. He presents a cautionary tale of the individuals relationship to the state. That's it.

The dosage makes the poison. Eat a table spoons of suger and nothing will happen. Eat a tablespoon of salt however...(DON'T do it!. You may die.). If you take a pound of sugar however, this is not healty either. Kafka may be more like salt.

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A woman loves a man who doesn't give a fuck about her. This is from experience.

She loves a man, who represents a higher order than her and is capable to make her adhere to his order as well.


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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:42 am

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Supporters of the concept regard memes as cultural analogues to genes in that they self-replicate, mutate and respond to selective pressures.[3] Proponents theorize that memes may evolve by natural selection in a manner analogous to that of biological evolution. Memes do this through the processes of variation, mutation, competition and inheritance, each of which influence a meme's reproductive success.

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One should be cautious when ideas like this are espoused by liberal academics like Dawkins and so enthusiastically embraced by modern thinkers. This is a typical product of the simulacrum and one I think which is dangerous for us on KTS to endorse. It has become a populist nonsense and is nothing more than pseudo-scientific dogma.

It can easily be used as evidence of how the environment trumps nature, as any negro living in a hut in Africa can be infected by Western memes and become indistinguishable from any white person in the West.

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Resemblance to genetics

Memetics has only a passing resemblance to genetics. In genetics, there is a clear separation between genes, genotypes, and phenotypes. That a gene is a proxy code for the phenotype, and the phenotype is what experiences selection pressure, not the gene. This is what allows natural selection to take place based on random mutation and inheritance of the code. A "meme", however, is a jumble of the three concepts - it acts as a gene but is also its own phenotype. Without this distinction, the evolution of memes is more Lamarckian than Darwinian. This should come as little surprise to those who consider that memes are the result of Dawkins proposing an rough allegory of genetics, rather than a serious science. To underscore the features of genetics that involve passing on information, a fairly legitimate comparison to how humans share and adapt ideas can be made. However, the similarities end there.


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A "scientific" study of memetics was attempted with the establishment of the Journal of Memetics, which lasted from 1997-2005.[2] While memetics has gained a few boosters in fields that study culture such as social psychology, sociology, and anthropology, it has largely been ignored as a methodological approach or met with harsh criticism. In the final issue of the Journal of Memetics, Bruce Edmonds argued that memetics had "failed to produce substantive results," writing "I claim that the underlying reason memetics has failed is that it has not provided any extra explanatory or predictive power beyond that available without the gene-meme analogy."[3]
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:16 am

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It can easily be used as evidence of how the environment trumps nature, as any negro living in a hut in Africa can be infected by Western memes and become indistinguishable from any white person in the West.

I agree with your criticism and thank you for sharing your thoughts. I, too, am critical towards these new modernized concepts. There are also these Dawkins T-Shirts saying: "We're all Africans" or "We all come from Africa". I add to that: "But some of us evolved." (I hope this is a meme that spreads...)

I have heard a lecture by a german professor on this and she compared memes to "viruses of the mind". They go viral. They spread. And that to me was an indication of a materialistic view on mindstuff (thoughts), like Pinker has too. And I agreed, because there is too much mystical nonsene in the area otherwise. And a necessity for a pragmatic approach, that is applicable for describing the mind functioning like a machine. Otherwise people do not develop by learning, but hope for some enlightenment through meditation or prayer or whatever. I didn't sit through the whole lecture, but most of it. In the second part, she just used more and more examples and I got the impression, that she just wanted to pass on HER ideas. With some of them I did agree, some were funny observations, but the whole lecture from this point onwards annoyed me.

Memes might be just a blown up term, used by a scientific upper class, that sounds impressive. But again thanks for sharing your IDEAS, your THOUGHTS on this. May they go viral.
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:25 pm

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apaosha wrote:
I don't have an emotional investment in it because I am not an Aborigine or a Negro. But I do know that East Asians and Ashkenazi Jews are on average a higher IQ than my own race's average. I don't care. It's reality. I'll beat them some other way.
Unlike the difference between blacks and other races the IQ differences between whites and Asians is quite small though, and may be partly explained away by the type of schooling that predominates in Asia where there is an emphasis on traditional subjects like math and science as well as the dumbing down of the West.

The pattern, tendency, if one were to look at IQ distribution among the different races along a bell curve, is that Aryans (Indo-Europeans) mark typicality at the extremes; meaning, they exhibit some of the highest IQs.

I am not sure, but Indo-Iranians might be marked under Asians, but in reality are Aryan, or closely related to Indo-Europeans.
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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Sat May 16, 2015 9:22 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Race and Tolerance. Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:30 pm


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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