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perpetualburn

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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:12 pm

Not Nietzsche but Lou Salome:

Quote :
How very much we think alike about it and how we virtually take the words out of each other's mouth. During these three weeks, we virtually talk ourselves to death and peculiarly enough, he can endure 10 hours daily of it. During our evenings, when the light, covered with ta red cloth like an invalid so as not to hurt his eyes, is only dimly shining in the room, we return to discussing common projects and how glad am I to have before me a recognized certain task. He has completely abandoned his plan to become my teacher, he says that I must never have such assistance but rather I have to search ahead entirely independently, – I should also never behave merely like a pupil, but rather, I should learn while I am creating and create while I am learning. – It is peculiar that in our discussions, we come close to those pinnacles, to those dizzying places that we might have climbed alone, before, in order to look into the abyss. We have always chose the paths of the mountain goats and if someone would have listened to us he would have thought that two devils were talking to each other.

Are we quite close? No, we are not, in spite of all of this. It is like a shadow of those imaginations regarding my feelings that Nietzsche was filled with only a couple of weeks ago, that is separating us and that is coming between us. And in some deeply hidden recesses of our natures, we are worlds apart from each other – in his nature, like in an old castle, N. has many a dark dungeon and hidden cellar that does not surface in the course of a brief acquaintance, yet could contain his very essence.

It is strange, lately, the thought went through me with a sudden force, that some day, we could even confront each other as enemies.

Nietzsche wrote:
Man's soul, however, is deep, its current gusheth in subterranean caverns: woman surmiseth its force, but comprehendeth it not
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:41 pm

"Self-mastery and moderation and their ultimate motive. - I find no more than six essentially different methods of combating the vehemence of a drive.

First, one can avoid opportunities for gratification of the drive, and through long and ever longer periods of non-gratification weaken it and make it wither away.

Then, one can impose upon oneself strict regularity in its gratification: by thus imposing a rule upon the drive itself and enclosing its ebb and flood within firm time-boundaries, one has then gained intervals during which one is no longer troubled by it - and from there one can perhaps go over to the first method.

Thirdly, one can deliberately give oneself over to the wild and unrestrained gratification of a drive in order to generate disgust with it and with disgust to acquire a power over the drive" always supposing one does not do like the rider who rode his horse to death and broke his own neck in the process - which, unfortunately, is the rule when this method is attempted.

Fourthly, there is the intellectual artifice of associating its gratification in general so firmly with some very painful thought that, after a little practice, the thought of its gratification is itself at once felt as very painful (as, for example, when the Christian accustoms himself to associating the proximity and mockery of the Devil with sexual enjoyment or everlasting punishment in Hell with a murder for revenge, or even when he thinks merely of the contempt which those he most respects would feel for him if he, for example, stole money; or, as many have done a hundred times, a person sets against a violent desire to commit suicide a vision of the grief and self-reproach of his friends and relations and therewith keeps himself suspended in life: - henceforth these ideas within him succeed one another as cause and effect). The same method is also being employed when a man's pride, as for example in the case of Lord Byron or Napoleon, rises up and feels the domination of his whole bearing and the ordering of his reason by a single affect as an affront: from where there then arises the habit and desire to tyrannies over the drive and make it as it were gnash its teeth. ('I refuse to be the slave of any appetite', Byron wrote in his diary.)

Fifthly, one brings about a dislocation of one's quanta of strength by imposing on oneself a particularly difficult and strenuous labour, or by deliberately subjecting oneself to a new stimulus and pleasure and thus directing one's thoughts and plays of physical forces into other channels. It comes to the same thing if one for the time being favors another drive, gives it ample opportunity for gratification and thus makes it squander that energy otherwise available to the drive which through its vehemence has grown burdensome. Some few will no doubt also understand how to keep in check the individual drive that wanted to play the master by giving all the other drives he knows of a temporary encouragement and festival and letting them eat up all the food the tyrant wants to have for himself alone.

Finally, sixth: he who can endure it and finds it reasonable to weaken and depress his entire bodily and physical organization will naturally thereby also attain the goal of weakening an individual violent drive: as he does, for example, who, like the ascetic, starves his sensuality and thereby also starves and ruins his vigour and not seldom his reason as well. - Thus: avoiding opportunities, implanting regularity into the drive, engendering satiety and disgust with it and associating it with a painful idea )such as that of disgrace, evil consequences or offended pride), then dislocation of forces and finally a general weakening and exhaustion - these are the six methods: That one Desires to combat the vehemence of a drive at all, however, does not stand within our power; nor does the choice of any particular method; nor does the success or failure of this method.

What is clearly the case is that in this entire procedure our intellect is only the blind instrument of Another Drive which is a Rival of the drive whose vehemence is tormenting us:  whether it be the drive to restfulness, or the fear of disgrace and other evil consequences, or love. While 'we' believe we are complaining about the vehemence of a drive, at bottom it is one drive Which Is Complaining About Another' that is to say: for us to become aware that we are suffering from the Vehemence of a drive presupposes the existence of another equally vehement or even more vehement drive, and that a Struggle is in prospect in which our intellect is going to have to take sides." [N., Daybreak, 109]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:16 pm

"Ceterum censeo. It is laughable when a society of the penniless decrees the abolition of the right of inheritance, and it is no less laughable when the childless participate in a country's practical lawgiving: - for they have insufficient ballast in their ship to be able safely to set sail into the ocean of the future.
But it appears equally absurd when he who has chosen for his task the most universal knowledge and the evaluation of the totality of existence burdens himself with personal considerations of family, nutrition, security, care of wife and child, and extends before his telescope that dark veil through which scarcely a ray from the distant firmament is able to penetrate. Thus I too arrive at the proposition that in affairs of the highest philosophical kind all married men are suspect." [HATH, 436]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:57 pm

Quote :
"Calm is the bottom of my sea: who would guess that it hides troll monsters!

Unmoved is my depth: but it sparkles with swimming enigmas and laughters.

A sublime one saw I today, a solemn one, a penitent of the spirit: Oh, how my soul laughed at his ugliness!

With upraised breast, and like those who draw in their breath: thus did he stand, the sublime one, and in silence:

O'erhung with ugly truths, the spoil of his hunting, and rich in torn raiment; many thorns also hung on him- but I saw no rose. Not yet had he learned laughing and beauty. Gloomy did this hunter return from the forest of knowledge.

From the fight with wild beasts returned he home: but even yet a wild beast gazes out of his seriousness- an unconquered wild beast!

As a tiger does he ever stand, on the point of springing; but I do not like those strained souls; ungracious is my taste towards all those self-engrossed ones.

And you tell me, friends, that there is to be no dispute about taste and tasting? But all life is a dispute about taste and tasting!

Taste: that is weight at the same time, and scales and weigher; and alas for every living thing that would live without dispute about weight and scales and weigher!

Should he become weary of his sublimeness, this sublime one, then only will his beauty begin- and then only will I taste him and find him savory.

And only when he turns away from himself will he o'erleap his own shadow- and verily! into his sun.

Far too long did he sit in the shade; the cheeks of the penitent of the spirit became pale; he almost starved on his expectations.

Contempt is still in his eye, and loathing hides in his mouth. To be sure, he now rests, but he has not yet taken rest in the sunshine.

As the ox ought he to do; and his happiness should smell of the earth, and not of contempt for the earth.

As a white ox would I like to see him, which, snorting and lowing, walks before the plough-share: and his lowing should also laud all that is earthly!

Dark is still his countenance; the shadow of his hand dances upon it. O'ershadowed is still the sense of his eye.

His deed itself is still the shadow upon him: his doing obscures the doer. Not yet has he overcome his deed.

To be sure, I love in him the shoulders of the ox: but now do I want to see also the eye of the angel.

Also his hero-will has he still to unlearn: an exalted one shall he be, and not only a sublime one:- the ether itself should raise him, the will-less one!

He has subdued monsters, he has solved enigmas. But he should also redeem his monsters and enigmas; into heavenly children should he transform them.

As yet has his knowledge not learned to smile, and to be without jealousy; as yet has his gushing passion not become calm in beauty.

Not in satiety shall his longing cease and disappear, but in beauty! Gracefulness belongs to the munificence of the magnanimous.

His arm across his head: thus should the hero repose; thus should he also overcome his repose.

But precisely to the hero is beauty the hardest thing of all. Unattainable is beauty by all ardent wills.

A little more, a little less: precisely this is much here, it is the most here.

To stand with relaxed muscles and with unharnessed will: that is the hardest for all of you, you sublime ones!

When power becomes gracious and descends into the visible- I call such condescension, beauty.

And from no one do I want beauty so much as from you, you powerful one: let your goodness be your last self-conquest.

All evil do I accredit to you: therefore do I desire of you the good.

I have often laughed at the weaklings, who think themselves good because they have crippled paws!

The virtue of the pillar shall you strive after: more beautiful does it ever become, and more graceful- but internally harder and more sustaining- the higher it rises.

Yes, you sublime one, one day shall you also be beautiful, and hold up the mirror to your own beauty.

Then will your soul thrill with divine desires; and there will be adoration even in your vanity!

For this is the secret of the soul: when the hero has abandoned it, then only approach it in dreams- the super-hero.-

Thus spoke Zarathustra." [TSZ, The Sublime Ones]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:27 pm

Quote :
That I may one day be ready and ripe in the great noon-tide:
ready and ripe like the glowing ore, the lightning-bearing cloud,
and the swelling milk-udder:-
-Ready for myself and for my most hidden Will: a bow eager for its
arrow, an arrow eager for its star:-
-A star, ready and ripe in its noontide, glowing, pierced,
blessed, by annihilating sun-arrows:-
-A sun itself, and an inexorable sun-will, ready for annihilation in
victory!
O Will, thou change of every need, my needfulness! Spare me for
one great victory!-

Quote :
A thousand goals have there been hitherto, for a thousand peoples
have there been. Only the fetter for the thousand necks is still
lacking; there is lacking the one goal. As yet humanity hath not a
goal.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:57 pm

Nietzsche wrote:
Devastation and self-pity in the face of the lower culture is a sign of the higher culture--this shows that happiness at least, has not been increased by the latter. Whoever wishes to harvest happiness and comfort from life, let him always keep out of the way of higher culture.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:42 pm

Quote :
And to be consistent with my way of thinking and my latest philosophy, I must even have an absolute victory – that is, the transformation of experience into gold and use of the highest order.

Quote :
The destruction of ideals, the new desert; new arts by means of which we can endure, we amphibians.

Nietzsche the alchemist?
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:52 pm

For one starting to read Nietzsche would does anyone have a suggestion as to the best order to read his works. And are there some translations that are significantly better than others?
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:47 pm

Stuart- wrote:
For one starting to read Nietzsche would does anyone have a suggestion as to the best order to read his works. And are there some translations that are significantly better than others?

I would begin with The Birth of Tragedy first. Acquiring an understanding of his Dionysian and Apollonian dynamics is necessary for the study of all his other works. His Zarathustra should follow after. As far as translators go, I think Walter Kaufmann is highly competent. His added commentary in Zarathustra was impressively insightful.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Sat Jun 13, 2015 11:01 pm

Stuart- wrote:
For one starting to read Nietzsche would does anyone have a suggestion as to the best order to read his works. And are there some translations that are significantly better than others?

I started with Human, All Too Human (coherent, comprehensive aphorisms) upon indication from a friend, and TSZ (life giving and altering), then whatever moved me from there, pending availability (whatever local libraries had, for instance.)
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Sat Jun 13, 2015 11:23 pm

Thank you.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:54 am

Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:29 am

RJ Hollingdale is an alternative to Kaufman. His introduction to TSZ in the Penguin publication is a clear and concise summary of the general meaning of the whole, which shows his value as a reader and translator of N.

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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:31 am

His first book I read was Zarathustra - his words about laughter stay with me, to laugh at the pitiful and the miserable - it meant a lot to me, to not suffer together with those begging for pity. His own autobiography is great as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:02 am

A "scientific" explanation of the world, as you understand, might therefore still be one of the most stupid of all possible interpretations of the world, meaning
that it would be one of the poorest in meaning. This thought is intended for the ears and consciences of our mechanists who nowadays like to pass as philosophers
and insist that mechanics is the doctrine of the first and last laws on which all existence must be based as on the ground floor. But an essentially mechanical world
would be an essentially meaningless world. Assuming that one estimated the value of a piece of music according to how much of it could be counted, calculated and
expressed in formulas: how absurd would such a "scientific" estimation of music be! What would one have comprehended, understood, grasped of it? Nothing, really
nothing of what is "music" in it!"
---Friedrich Nietzsche
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:38 am

lilynate wrote:
A "scientific" explanation of the world, as you understand, might therefore still be one of the most stupid of all possible interpretations of the world, meaning
that it would be one of the poorest in meaning. This thought is intended for the ears and consciences of our mechanists who nowadays like to pass as philosophers
and insist that mechanics is the doctrine of the first and last laws on which all existence must be based as on the ground floor. But an essentially mechanical world
would be an essentially meaningless world. Assuming that one estimated the value of a piece of music according to how much of it could be counted, calculated and
expressed in formulas: how absurd would such a "scientific" estimation of music be! What would one have comprehended, understood, grasped of it? Nothing, really
nothing of what is "music" in it!"
---Friedrich Nietzsche

In between the absolutism of monism, as a beyond, above, underneath, and one of a projected utopia, an immanent oneness, we exist.
Nihilism has two poles....one I call pure, or negative, it makes of world into a no-thing, the other is "positive"using words to replace deeds, actions, creating linguistic paradoxes as the effect of its hypocrisy, and this is Modernity, Americanism....Judeo-Christianity <> Secular Humanism/Marxism....1/0 , one/nil, both sides representing a different take on the same absolute nullification of existence, as dynamic, fluid, (inter)active, uncertain, fluctuating...

Moderns are trapped within the binary dialogue between the two poles of Nihilism, thinking they are making progress.
This creates an artificial space, a noetic universe, a manmade cosmos. A matrix around reality with no contact with it, hovering above it, separate, detached...concealing it.


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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:10 am

The relationship to the following emanates from more than just spending the better part of the day amidst the epicenter of concentrated decadence of the world; that is, FB, but it is inordinately enough to portray a vivid and finalized picture:

Nietzsche wrote:

What a mad, unhappy animal is man!
What strange notions occur to him; what perversities, what paroxysms of nonsense, what bestialities of ideas burst from him, the moment he is prevented ever so little from being a beast of action! . . . All this is exceedingly curious and interesting, but dyed with such a dark, somber, enervating sadness that one must resolutely tear away one's gaze. Here, no doubt, is sickness, the most terrible sickness that has wasted man thus far. And if one is still able to hear -- but how few these days have ears to hear it! -- in this night of torment and absurdity the cry love ring out, the cry of rapt longing, of redemption in love, he must turn away with a shudder of invincible horror . . . Man harbors too much horror; the earth has been a lunatic asylum for too long.
[The Genealogy of Morals]
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:25 pm

Nietzsche wrote:
"Finding a motivefor one'spoverty. - There is clearly no trick that enables us to turn a poor virtue into a rich and overflowing one, but we can surely reinterpret its poverty nicely into a necessity, so that its sight no longer offends us and we no longer make reproachful faces at fate on its account. That is what the wise gardener does when he places the poor little stream in his garden in the arms of a nymph and thus finds a motive for its poverty: and who wouldn't need nymphs as he does?" [JW, 17]

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:00 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Nietzsche wrote:
"Finding a motivefor one'spoverty. - There is clearly no trick that enables us to turn a poor virtue into a rich and overflowing one, but we can surely reinterpret its poverty nicely into a necessity, so that its sight no longer offends us and we no longer make reproachful faces at fate on its account. That is what the wise gardener does when he places the poor little stream in his garden in the arms of a nymph and thus finds a motive for its poverty: and who wouldn't need nymphs as he does?" [JW, 17]

This, this coping, this deception, this bleakness paralyzer or artistic and naturalistic colorizer and tectonicizer, I came to meet head on and stomach on, where my head was in my stomach and my stomach in my head, the other late morning, that seems like yesterday but now amnesic to its intrusion and its illusion and its inconclusive conclusion, following a proceeding aggregated occurrence of comedic tragedy which left me nothing with on which to stand or which to fall.
I grabbed at it because I had to and I squeezed so tightly so as not to break it, but how to grip something which is unbreakable, but which has the cleanest innocence, a definably undefined form and discontented content.
So then, it must have been that I was reaching for my own hand, but it was too pale too locate and too inseparable to unify.
I stood motionless, but I was fleeting toward the stars or those little giants I figured I could always believe in and pretend a superposition and duplicate myself from their vantage, but this time again there was neither gazing up nor looking down.
I paced with an effortless heaviness like I was all head and no heart, but with a heart which directed and a head which listened, and a head which pumped and a heart which-direction, only to orbit around an oblong axis back to the beginning.
It was as all standardized and measurable time halted and entrapped me in an airy airless womb I could familiarize but not materialize, where there was no going backward or forward, no longer under its spell, but still wishing for it to cast away.
It was a situational uncontrolled: a waiting and staring which neither impatience nor patience could change its course. An indifferent desire for something to transpire prematurely and inappropriately in order to quiet the disquiet and silence the quiet.
What now, when something so revealing that it tears down all facades therein only to offer a way out through the way in: detach the cord of which feeds you the accepted to instead mend and weave by acceptance: forget with a forgetlessness, or forget with a forgetfulness, all that does not matter but what matters all World, Nature and Life, deceiving, coping, with your own deceptions and deceiving, and not those deceptions of the deceivers and the deceivers of deceptions.

You putatively deceive yourself with a deception: "I can longer deceive myself that these deceptions are more than deceptions." Then you must deceive your deception: "If I had the disciplinary and intellectual and creative deceptive capacities then I could deceive myself with impenetrable deceptions of an artist of deception.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:10 pm

Supra-Aryanist wrote:
what matters all World, Nature and Life, deceiving, coping, with your own deceptions and deceiving, and not those deceptions of the deceivers and the deceivers of deceptions.

But its more than that.

There's another example he gives. You see a poor man, and he says, the best thing you can do for the both [so you dont end up pitying and he doesnt end up insulted] is to ask him, 'can you help me?'... and the poor man is supposed to feel uplifted. Good enough that he could give someone something... he begins to self-respect...

Its a way of raising someone.

Give respect, so one stops asking for it.. and making the whole air filthy.


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:38 am

First Order seems to be congruent with what I was conveying:

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I found this uplifter from you, btw. First time in days that I was inspired to gravitate toward something to study.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:16 am

Nietzsche wrote:
There are losses which communicate a sublimity to the soul which makes it refrain from lamentation and go about in silence as though among tall black cypress trees.

Quote :
I am a forest, and a night of dark trees: but he who is not afraid of my darkness, will find banks full of roses under my cypresses.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:12 am

Nietzsche wrote:
For matters stand like this: the diminution and levelling of European man hides our greatest danger, for the sight of him makes us tired. We don`t see anything today which wants to be greater. We suspect that things are constantly going down and down into something thinner, more good-natured, more prudent, more comfortable, more mediocre, more indifferent, more Chinese, more Christian - humanity, there is no doubt, is becoming constantly "better" . . . Europe`s fate lies right here. With our fear of mankind we also have lost our love for mankind, our reverence for mankind, our hopes for mankind, even our will to be mankind. A glimpse at man makes us tired - what is today`s nihilism, if it is not that? . . . We are weary of man.

I can relate to his in my everyday life. ( I accidently edited this text over the other text so I don't remember what I wrote here )
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:43 am

In geneology of morals, I love this one
Nietzsche wrote:
Let us clarify for ourselves the logic of this whole method of compensation—it is weird enough. The equivalency is given in this way: instead of an advantage making up directly for the harm (hence, instead of compensation in gold, land, possessions of some sort or another), the creditor is given a kind of pleasure as repayment and compensation—the pleasure of being allowed to discharge his power on a powerless person without having to think about it, the delight in “de fair le mal pour le plaisir de le faire” [doing wrong for the pleasure of doing it], the enjoyment of violation. This enjoyment is more highly prized the lower and baser the creditor stands in the social order, and it can easily seem to him a delicious mouthful, in fact, a foretaste of a higher rank. By means of the “punishment” of the debtor, the creditor participates in a right belonging to the masters. Finally he also for once comes to the lofty feeling of despising a being as someone “beneath him,” as someone he is entitled to mistreat—or at least, in the event that the real force of punishment, of executing punishment, has already been transferred to the “authorities,” the feeling of seeing the debtor despised and mistreated. The compensation thus consists of an order for and a right to cruelty.

In this area, that is, in the laws of obligation, the world of the moral concepts “guilt,” “conscience,” “duty,” and “sanctity of obligation” has its origin—its beginning, like the beginning of everything great on earth, was watered thoroughly and for a long time with blood. And can we not add that this world deep down has never again been completely free of a certain smell of blood and torture—(not even with old Kant whose categorical imperative stinks of cruelty)? In addition, here that weird knot linking the ideas of “guilt and suffering,” which perhaps has become impossible to undo, was first knit together. Let me pose the question once more: to what extent can suffering be a compensation for “debts”? To the extent that making someone suffer provides the highest degree of pleasure, to the extent that the person hurt by the debt, in exchange for the injury as well as for the distress caused by the injury, got an extraordinary offsetting pleasure: creating suffering—a real celebration, something that, as I’ve said, was valued all the more, the greater it contradicted the rank and social position of the creditor. I have been speculating here, for it’s difficult to see through to the foundations of such subterranean things, quite apart from the fact that it’s embarrassing. And anyone who crudely throws into the middle of all this the idea of “revenge” has buried and dimmed his insights rather than illuminated them (—revenge itself, in fact, simply takes us back to the same problem: “How can making someone suffer give us a feeling of satisfaction?”). It seems to me that the delicacy and, even more, the Tartufferie [hypocrisy] of tame house pets (I mean modern man, I mean us) resist imagining with all our power how much cruelty contributes to the great celebratory joy of older humanity, as, in fact, an ingredient mixed into almost all their enjoyments and, from another perspective, how naive, how innocent, their need for cruelty appears, how they fundamentally think of its particular “disinterested malice” (or to use Spinoza’s words, the sympathia malevolens [malevolent sympathy]) as a normal human characteristic:—and hence as something to which their conscience says a heartfelt Yes!* A more deeply penetrating eye might still notice, even today, enough of this most ancient and most fundamental celebratory human joy. In Beyond Good and Evil, 229 (even earlier in Daybreak, 18, 77, 113), I pointed a cautious finger at the constantly growing spiritualization and “deification” of cruelty, which runs through the entire history of higher culture (and, in a significant sense, even constitutes that culture). In any case, it’s not so long ago that people wouldn’t think of an aristocratic wedding and folk festival in the grandest style without executions, tortures, or something like an auto-da-fé [burning at the stake], and similarly no noble household lacked creatures on whom people could vent their malice and cruel taunts without a second thought (—remember, for instance, Don Quixote at the court of the duchess; today we read all of Don Quixote with a bitter taste on the tongue; it’s almost an ordeal. In so doing, we would become very foreign, very obscure to the author and his contemporaries—they read it with a fully clear conscience as the most cheerful of books. They almost died laughing at it). Watching suffering makes people feel good; creating suffering makes them feel even better—that’s a harsh principle, but an old, powerful, and human, all-too-human major principle, which, by the way, even the apes might perhaps agree with as well. For people say that, in thinking up bizarre cruelties, the apes already anticipate a great many human actions and are, as it were, an “audition.” Without cruelty there is no celebration: that’s what the oldest and longest human history teaches us—and with punishment, too, there is so much celebration!

With these ideas, by the way, I have no desire whatsoever to give our pessimists grist for their discordant mills grating with weariness of life. On the contrary, I want to state very clearly that in that period when human beings had not yet become ashamed of their cruelty, life on earth was happier than it is today, now that we have our pessimists. The darkening of heaven over men’s heads has always increased alarmingly in proportion to the growth of human beings’ shame before human beings. The tired, pessimistic look, the mistrust of the riddle of life, the icy denial stemming from disgust with life—these are not the signs of the wickedest eras of human beings. It’s much more the case that they first come to light as the swamp plants they are when the swamp to which they belong is there—I mean the sickly mollycoddling and moralizing, thanks to which the animal “man” finally learns to feel shame about all his instincts. On his way to becoming an “angel” (not to use a harsher word here), man cultivated for himself that upset stomach and that furry tongue which not only made the joy and innocence of the animal repulsive but also made life itself distasteful:—so that now and then he stands there before himself, holds his nose, and with Pope Innocent III disapproves and makes a catalogue of his nastiness (“conceived in filth, disgustingly nourished in his mother’s body, developed out of evil material stuff, stinking horribly, a secretion of spit, urine, and excrement”).* Now, when suffering always has to march out as the first among the arguments against existence, as its most serious question mark, it’s good for us to remember the times when people judged things the other way around, because they couldn’t do without making people suffer and saw a first-class magic in it, a really tempting enticement for living. Perhaps, and let me say this as a consolation for the delicate, at that time pain did not yet hurt as much as it does nowadays. That at least could be the conclusion of a doctor who had treated a Negro (taking the latter as a representative of prehistorical man) for a bad case of inner inflammation, which drives the European, even one with the best constitution, almost to despair, but which does not have the same effect on the Negro. (The graph of the human sensitivity to pain seems in fact to sink down remarkably and almost immediately after one has moved beyond the first ten thousand or ten million of the top members of the higher culture. And I personally have no doubt that, in comparison with one painful night of a single hysterical well-educated female, the total suffering of all animals which up to now have been interrogated by the knife in search of scientific answers is simply not worth considering). Perhaps it is even permissible to concede the possibility that that pleasure in cruelty does not really need to have died out. It would only require a certain sublimation and subtlety, in proportion to the way pain hurts more nowadays; in other words, it would have to appear translated into the imaginative and spiritual and embellished with nothing but names so unobjectionable that they arouse no suspicion in even the most delicate hypocritical conscience (“tragic pity” is one such name; another is “les nostalgies de la croix” [nostalgia for the cross]). What truly enrages people about suffering is not the suffering itself, but the meaninglessness of suffering. But neither for the Christian, who has interpreted into suffering an entire secret machinery for salvation, nor for the naive men of older times, who understood how to interpret all suffering in relation to the spectator or to the person inflicting the suffering, was there generally any such meaningless suffering. In order for the hidden, undiscovered, unwitnessed suffering to be removed from the world and for people to be able to deny it honestly, they were then almost compelled to invent gods and intermediate beings at all levels, high and low—briefly put, something that also roamed in hidden places, that also looked into the darkness, and that would not readily permit an interesting painful spectacle to escape its attention. For with the help of such inventions life then understood and has always understood how to justify itself by a trick, how to justify its “evil.” Nowadays perhaps it requires other helpful inventions for that purpose (for example, life as riddle, life as a problem of knowledge). “Every evil a glimpse of which edifies a god is justified”: that’s how the prehistorical logic of feeling rang out—and was that really confined only to prehistory? The gods conceived of as friends of cruel spectacle—O how widely this primitive idea still rises up even within our European humanity! We might well seek advice from, say, Calvin and Luther on this point. At any rate it is certain that even the Greeks knew of no more acceptable snack to offer their gods to make them happy than the joys of cruelty. With what sort of expression, do you think, did Homer allow his gods to look down on the fates of men? What final sense was there basically in the Trojan War and similar tragic terrors? We cannot entertain the slightest doubts about this: they were intended as celebrations for the gods: and, to the extent that the poet is in these matters more “godlike” than other men, as festivals for the poets as well. . . . Later the Greek moral philosophers in the same way imagined the eyes of god no differently, still looking down on the moral struggles, on heroism and the self-mutilation of the virtuous: the “Hercules of duty” was on a stage, and he knew he was there. Without someone watching, virtue for this race of actors was something entirely inconceivable. Surely such a daring and fateful philosophical invention, first made for Europe at that time, the invention of the “free will,” of the absolutely spontaneous nature of human beings in matters of good and evil, was created above all to justify the idea that the interest of gods in men, in human virtue, could never run out? On this earthly stage there was never to be any lack of really new things, really unheard of suspense, complications, catastrophes. A world conceived of as perfectly deterministic would have been predictable to the gods and therefore also soon boring for them—reason enough for these friends of the gods, the philosophers, not to ascribe such a deterministic world to their gods! All of ancient humanity is full of sensitive consideration for “the spectator,” for a truly public, truly visible world, which did not know how to imagine happiness without dramatic performances and festivals. And, as I have already said, in great punishment there is also so much celebration!


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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:45 pm

"If you are always profoundly occupied, you are beyond all embarrassment." - TGS
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:39 am

Nietzsche wrote:
 All instincts which are not discharged to the outside are turned back inside—this is what I call the internalization [Verinnerlichung] of man. From this first grows in man what people later call his “soul.” The entire inner world, originally as thin as if stretched between two layers of skin, expanded and extended itself, acquired depth, width, and height, to the extent that what a person discharged out into the world was obstructed. Those frightening fortifications with which the organization of the state protected itself against the old instincts for freedom—punishments belong above all to these fortifications—brought it about that all those instincts of the wild, free, roaming man turned themselves backwards, against man himself. Enmity, cruelty, joy in pursuit, in attack, in change, in destruction—all those turned themselves against the possessors of such instincts. That is the origin of “bad conscience.”

The man who lacked external enemies and opposition and was forced into an oppressive narrowness and regularity of custom, impatiently tore himself apart, persecuted himself, gnawed away at himself, grew upset, and did himself damage - this animal which scraped itself raw against the bars of its cage, which people want to "tame," this impoverished creature, consumed with longing for the wild had to create in itself an adventure, a torture chamber, an uncertain and dangerous wilderness, this fool, this yearning and puzzled prisoner was the inventor of "bad conscience." With him was introduced the greatest and weirdest illness, from which human beings today have not recovered, the suffering of man from his humanness, from himself, a consequence of the forcible separation from his animal past, a leap and, so to speak, a fall into new situations and living conditions, a declaration of war against the old instincts, on which, up to that point, his power, joy, and ability to inspire fear had been based.

Let us at once add that, on the other hand, the fact that there was now an animal soul turned against itself, taking sides against itself, provided this earth with something so new, profound, unheard of, enigmatic, contradictory, and portentous [Zukunftsvolles], that the picture of the earth was fundamentally changed. In fact, it required divine spectators to approve the dramatic performance which then began and whose conclusion is not yet in sight, a spectacle too fine, too wonderful, too paradoxical, to be allowed to play itself out senselessly and unobserved on some ridiculous star or other. Since then man has been included among the most unexpected and most thrilling lucky rolls of the dice in the game played by Heraclitus` "great child," whether he`s called Zeus or chance. In himself he arouses a certain interest, tension, hope, almost a certainty, as if something is announcing itself in him, is preparing itself, as if the human being were not the goal but only the way, an episode, a great promise. . .

Inherent in this hypothesis about the origin of bad conscience is, firstly, the assumption that this change was not gradual or voluntary and did not manifest an organic growth into new conditions, but was a break, a leap, something forced, an irrefutable disaster, against which there was no struggle nor any resentment. Secondly, it assumes that the adaptation of a populace which had hitherto been unchecked and shapeless into a fixed form was initiated by an act of violence and was carried to its conclusion by nothing but sheer acts of violence, that consequently the very oldest "State" emerged as a terrible tyranny, as an oppressive and inconsiderate machinery and continued working until such a raw materials of people and half-animals finally was not only thoroughly kneaded and submissive but also given a shape.

I used the word "State" - it is self-evident who is meant by that term - some pack of blond predatory animals, a race of conquerors and masters, which, organized for war and with the power to organize, without thinking about it sets its terrifying paws on a subordinate population which may perhaps be vast in numbers but is still without any shape, is still wandering about. That`s surely the way the "State" begins on earth. I believe that that fantasy has been done away with which sees the beginning of the state in some "contract." The man who can command, who is naturally a "master," who comes forward with violence in his actions and gestures - what has a man like that to do with making contracts! We cannot negotiate with such beings. They come like fate, without cause, reason, consideration, or pretext. They are present as lightning is present, too fearsome, too sudden, too convincing, too "different" even to become hated. Their work is the instinctive creation of forms, the imposition of forms. They are the most involuntary and unconscious artists in existence. Where they appear something new is soon present, a living power structure, something in which the parts and functions are demarcated and coordinated, in which there is, in general, no place for anything which does not first derive its "meaning" from its relationship to the totality .

These men, these born organizers, have no idea what guilt, responsibility, and consideration are. In them that fearsome egotism of the artist is in charge, which stares out like bronze and knows how to justify itself for all time in the "work," just like mother with her child. They are not the ones in whom "bad conscience" grew - that point is obvious. But this hateful plant would not have grown without them. It would have failed if an immense amount of freedom had not been driven from the world under the pressure of their hammer blows - or at least driven from sight and, as it were, had become latent. This powerful instinct for freedom, once made latent (we already understand how), this instinct driven back, repressed, imprisoned inside, and finally able to discharge and direct itself only against itself - that and that alone is what bad conscience is in its beginnings.
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:33 pm

"Beauty is no accident. The beauty of a race, their grace and graciousness in all gestures, is won by work: like genius, it is the end result of the accumulated work of generations."
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:09 am

Nietzsche wrote:
"In the end, modern man drags around with him a huge quantity of indigestible stones of knowledge, which then, as in the fairy tale, can sometimes be heard rumbling about inside him. And in this rumbling there is betrayed the most characteristic quality of modern man: the remarkable antithesis between an interior which fails to correspond to any exterior which fails to correspond to any interior-an antithesis unknown to the peoples of earlier times. Knowledge, consumed for the greater part without hunger for it and even counter to one’s needs, now no longer acts as an agent for transforming the outside world but remains concealed within a chaotic inner world which modern man describes with a curious pride as his uniquely characteristic ‘subjectivity’."

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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:11 pm

Nietzsche wrote:
After such a joyful entrance, there is a serious word that I want heard; it is intended for those who are most serious. Stand tall, you philosophers and friends of knowledge, and beware of martyrdom! Of suffering “for the sake of truth”! Even of defending yourselves! You will ruin the innocence and fine objectivity of your conscience, you will be stubborn towards objections and red rags, you will become stupid, brutish, bullish if, while fighting against danger, viciousness, suspicion, ostracism, and even nastier consequences of animosity, you also have to pose as the worldwide defenders of truth. As if “the Truth” were such a harmless and bungling little thing that she needed defenders! And you of all people, her Knights of the Most Sorrowful Countenance, my Lord Slacker and Lord Webweaver of the Spirit! In the end, you know very well that it does not matter whether you, of all people, are proved right, and furthermore, that no philosopher so far has ever been proved right. You also know that every little question-mark you put after your special slogans and favorite doctrines (and occasionally after yourselves) might contain more truth than all the solemn gestures and trump cards laid before accusers and courts of law! So step aside instead! Run away and hide! And be sure to have your masks and your finesse so people will mistake you for something else, or be a bit scared of you! And do not forget the garden, the garden with golden trelliswork! And have people around you who are like a garden, – or like music over the waters when evening sets and the day is just a memory. Choose the good solitude, the free, high-spirited, light-hearted solitude that, in some sense, gives you the right to stay good yourself ! How poisonous, how cunning, how bad you become in every long war that cannot be waged out in the open! How personal you become when you have been afraid for a long time, keeping your eye on enemies, on possible enemies! These outcasts of society (the long-persecuted, the badly harassed, as well as those forced to become hermits, the Spinozas or Giordano Brunos): they may work under a spiritual guise, and might not even know what they are doing, but they will always end up subtly seeking vengeance and mixing their poisons ( just try digging up the foundation of Spinoza’s ethics and theology!). Not to mention the absurd spectacle of moral indignation, which is an unmistakable sign that a philosopher has lost his philosophical sense of humor. The philosopher’s martyrdom, his “self-sacrifice for the truth,” brings to light the agitator and actor in him; and since we have only ever regarded him with artistic curiosity, it is easy to understand the dangerous wish to see many of these philosophers in their degeneration for once (degenerated into “martyrs” or loud-mouths on their stage or soap-box). It’s just that, with this sort of wish we have to be clear about what we will be seeing: – only a satyr-play, only a satirical epilogue, only the continuing proof that the long, real tragedy has come to an end (assuming that every philosophy was originally a long tragedy – ). [Beyond Good and Evil, The Free Spirit 25]
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PostSubject: x Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:51 pm

Nietzsche wrote:
59. The whole labour of the ancient world gone for naught: I have no word to describe the feelings that such an enormity arouses in me.‐‐And, considering the fact that its labour was merely preparatory, that with adamantine self‐consciousness it laid only the foundations for a work to go on for thousands of years, the whole meaning of antiquity disappears! . . To what end the Greeks? to what end the Romans?‐‐All the prerequisites to a learned culture, all the methods of science, were already there; man had already perfected the great and incomparable art of reading profitably‐‐that first necessity to the tradition of culture, the unity of the sciences; the natural sciences, in alliance with mathematics and mechanics, were on the right road,‐‐the sense of fact, the last and more valuable of all the senses, had its schools, and its traditions were already centuries old! Is all this properly understood? Every essential to the beginning of the work was ready;‐‐and the most essential, it cannot be said too often, are methods, and also the most difficult to develop, and the longest opposed by habit and laziness. What we have to day reconquered, with unspeakable self‐discipline, for ourselves‐‐for certain bad instincts, certain Christian instincts, still lurk in our bodies‐‐that is to say, the keen eye for reality, the cautious hand, patience and seriousness in the smallest things, the whole integrity of knowledge‐‐all these things were already there, and had been there for two thousand years! More, there was also a refined and excellent tact and taste! Not as mere brain‐drilling! Not as "German" culture, with its loutish manners! But as body, as bearing, as instinct‐‐in short, as reality. . . All gone for naught! Overnight it became merely a memory !‐‐The Greeks! The Romans! Instinctive nobility, taste, methodical inquiry, genius for organization and administration, faith in and the will to secure the future of man, a great yes to everything entering into the imperium Romanum and palpable to all the senses, a grand style that was beyond mere art, but had become reality, truth, life . . ‐‐All overwhelmed in a night, but not by a convulsion of nature! Not trampled to death by Teutons and others of heavy hoof! But brought to shame by crafty, sneaking, invisible, anemic vampires! Not conquered,‐‐only sucked dry! . . . Hidden vengefulness, petty envy, became master! Everything wretched, intrinsically ailing, and invaded by bad feelings, the whole ghetto‐world of the soul, was at once on top!‐‐One needs but read any of the Christian agitators, for example, St. Augustine, in order to realize, in order to smell, what filthy fellows came to the top. It would be an error, however, to assume that there was any lack of understanding in the leaders of the Christian movement:‐‐ah, but they were clever, clever to the point of holiness, these fathers of the church! What they lacked was something quite different. Nature neglected‐‐perhaps forgot‐‐to give them even the most modest endowment of respectable, of upright, of cleanly instincts. . . Between ourselves, they are not even men. . . . If Islam despises Christianity, it has a thousandfold right to do so: Islam at least assumes that it is dealing with men. . . .

60. Christianity destroyed for us the whole harvest of ancient civilization, and later it also destroyed for us the whole harvest of Mohammedan civilization. The wonderful culture of the Moors in Spain, which was fundamentally nearer to us and appealed more to our senses and tastes than that of Rome and Greece, was trampled down (‐‐I do not say by what sort of feet‐‐) Why? Because it had to thank noble and manly instincts for its origin‐‐because it said yes to life, even to the rare and refined luxuriousness of Moorish life! . . . The crusaders later made war on something before which it would have been more fitting for them to have grovelled in the dust‐‐a civilization beside which even that of our nineteenth century seems very poor and very "senile."‐‐What they wanted, of course, was booty: the orient was rich. . . . Let us put aside our prejudices! The crusades were a higher form of piracy, nothing more! The German nobility, which is fundamentally a Viking nobility, was in its element there: the church knew only too well how the German nobility was to be won . . . The German noble, always the "Swiss guard" of the church, always in the service of every bad instinct of the church‐‐but well paid. . . Consider the fact that it is precisely the aid of German swords and German blood and valour that has enabled the church to carry through its war to the death upon everything noble on earth! At this point a host of painful questions suggest themselves. The German nobility stands outside the history of the higher civilization: the reason is obvious. . . Christianity, alcohol‐‐the two great means of corruption. . . . Intrinsically there should be no more choice between Islam and Christianity than there is between an Arab and a Jew. The decision is already reached; nobody remains at liberty to choose here. Either a man is a Chandala or he is not. . . . "War to the knife with Rome! Peace and friendship with Islam!": this was the feeling, this was the act, of that great free spirit, that genius among German emperors, Frederick II. What! must a German first be
a genius, a free spirit, before he can feel decently? I can't make out how a German could ever feel Christian. . . . [The Antichrist]
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:58 pm

Nietzsche wrote:
"The road to happiness. - A wise man asked a fool what the road to happiness is. The latter replied without delay, like someone being asked the way to the nearest town: 'Admire yourself and live on the street!' 'Stop,' replied the sage, 'you are asking too much; it is quite enough to admire oneself!' The fool countered: 'But how can one constantly admire without constantly feeling contempt?'" [JW, 213]

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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:51 pm

Nietzsche wrote:
Close beside dark and gloomy men there is to be found, almost as a rule and as though tied to them, a soul of light. It is as if it were the negative shadow they cast . . . Men press towards the light, not so as to see better, but so as to shine better.
(WS, 258; cf. 254)

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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:31 am

Nietzsche wrote:
Once more the origin of scholars: The wish to preserve oneself is the symptom of a condition of distress, of a limitation of the really fundamental instinct of life which aims at the expansion of power and, wishing for that, frequently risks and even sacrifices self-preservation. It should be considered symptomatic when some philosophers—for example, Spinoza who was consumptive—considered the instinct of self-preservation decisive and had to see it that way; for they were individuals in conditions of distress. That our modern natural sciences have become so thoroughly entangled in this Spinozistic dogma (most recently and worst of all, Darwinism with its incomprehensibly onesided doctrine of the struggle for existence') is probably due to the origins of most natural scientists: In this respect they belong to the ''common people"; their ancestors were poor and undistinguished people who knew the difficulties of survival only too well at firsthand. The whole of English Darwinism breathes something like the musty air of English overpopulation, like the smell of the distress and overcrowding of small people. But a natural scientist should come out of his human nook; and in nature it is not conditions of distress which rules but overflow and squandering, even to the point of absurdity. The struggle for existence is only an exception, a temporary restriction of the will to life. The great and small struggle always revolves around superiority, around growth and expansion, around power—in accordance with the will to power which is the will of life. [The Joyous Science - 349]
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PostSubject: Re: Nietzsche Quotes Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:23 pm

Nietzsche wrote:
We should repudiate merit and do only that which stands above all praise and above all understanding. WTP
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