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 What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American?

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apaosha
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apaosha

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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 28, 2012 2:09 pm

Recidivist wrote:
Can you give any indication as to how such a strategy could be implemented globally, given the collapse of communism in the East under pressure from American capitalism, or how it would profit the worlds wealthy?

Communism is a weaker economic system than capitalism, less flexible, less dynamic. It will inevitably fail in the long run against free market systems, in my opinion.

Satyr wrote:
Communism failed because it offered an ideal which went against human nature.

It's just a feeling.

Yes, Communism posits an ideal society incompatible with human nature. But when I say "grooming" I mean that a population is being socially engineered in order to become more compatible to this ideal.

It's irrelevant whether it will be successful or not. The attempt is being made. Again.

Before, it was forced upon a population and eventually collapsed on itself for this reason of incompatibility. But if the subject population was sufficiently trained in terms of values, ideologies and memes so that it took more readily to the concepts of obligation toward the other, the State as the only absolute authority figure and economic class as the only reference for identity, the loss of past as represented by race or family or ideology... then at the very least the resurrection of communism could be more successful or enduring than it has been.

We already, as a culture in the West, feel an obligation to uplift and give charity to the lesser or the "disadvantaged" among us or abroad. We are already desensitized to the idea that part of our earnings are being forcefully taken from us and redistributed by the state as various forms of social welfare.
Altruism is being positioned in the place of the highest morality. Altruism is the root premise of collectivism; the obligation to the other.

The Revolution switched from a direct, economic or military revolution to one based on the meme. The frankfurt school. Critical theory. Marxists got off the streets and into the universities, the media and politics. They now dominate those fields.
The outcome of that domination is what we talk about on here all the time.

In terms of the Cold War, capitalism won economically but lost culturally.
I say Americanization is being used as the tool to spread this because Americanization represents globalization, the coming monoculture. Part of the reason Communism failed was because there was an alternative to escape to. If all is the same then there is no alternative and there is no escape.

Again, Orwell.


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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 28, 2012 2:30 pm

Yes this alternative was also less natural...it was an ideal too far removed from reality, too supernatural, to be attractive.

Capitalism's appeal lies in its apparent relationship to natural predispositions.
This too is a farce. In capitalism privilege is inherited and the entire system is used to maintain hierarchies, allowing only social ascent on the lower spheres as a way of pretending that social mobility is a part of its values.
This lets the lower strata in the illusion that they are free, defending the very system that keeps them enslaved and running after material and hedonistic goals.
No pressure on the elites, as they disappear behind the curtains of abstracted masculinity.

The population is kept in an adolescent state of animalism; their minds contained in the immediate, the easy, their person....culture of I.
This is how you can have masses of poor people supporting parties openly defending the rich.

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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 28, 2012 2:37 pm

Quote :

Yes, Communism posits an ideal society incompatible with human nature. But when I say "grooming" I mean that a population is being socially engineered in order to become more compatible to this ideal.

It's irrelevant whether it will be successful or not. The attempt is being made. Again.

Why is it irrelevant? What I think Marxists got right, compared to Libertarians (Market Supremacists), is that they seek political power. They know human nature. And the human is a scared animal, that seeks shelter. Arnold Gehlen called the homo sapiens (german:) "Mängelwesen" (english: deficient being). In all fields we have our master in nature in form of an animal. We lost our fur and so we need shelter in form of housing and so on. Marxists do not reject political power (like Ron Paul in his rhetoric). Because the power is out there. Even in a free market (Libertarian) utopia, there would be winners and losers. Kings and peasants. Or even slaves. That's where we're heading according to Spengler, but slowly in the next few hundred years.
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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 28, 2012 2:46 pm

Satyr wrote:

The population is kept in an adolescent state of animalism; their minds contained in the immediate, the easy, their person....culture of I.
This is how you can have masses of poor people supporting parties openly defending the rich.

That's why a spiritual awakening is needed. Wisdom, I am not going to say eastern wisdom. Heraclitus is a good start, but I will name: The Bhagavad Gita of ancient India, also. Not just staying manly alone. In fact they will be both the same. Spiritual awakening and resistance to feminization.
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apaosha
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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptyFri Dec 28, 2012 3:42 pm

Satyr wrote:
Yes this alternative was also less natural...it was an ideal too far removed from reality, too supernatural, to be attractive.

Capitalism's appeal lies in its apparent relationship to natural predispositions.
This too is a farce. In capitalism privilege is inherited and the entire system is used to maintain hierarchies, allowing only social ascent on the lower spheres as a way of pretending that social mobility is a part of its values.
This lets the lower strata in the illusion that they are free, defending the very system that keeps them enslaved and running after material and hedonistic goals.
No pressure on the elites, as they disappear behind the curtains of abstracted masculinity.

The population is kept in an adolescent state of animalism; their minds contained in the immediate, the easy, their person....culture of I.
This is how you can have masses of poor people supporting parties openly defending the rich.

Perhaps the "masses of poor people supporting parties openly defending the rich" represent a reverence for their betters which the class warfare of marxism seeks to invert and exploit, turning that reverence to resentment.... ressentiment.

Laconian wrote:
Quote :

Yes, Communism posits an ideal society incompatible with human nature. But when I say "grooming" I mean that a population is being socially engineered in order to become more compatible to this ideal.

It's irrelevant whether it will be successful or not. The attempt is being made. Again.

Why is it irrelevant? What I think Marxists got right, compared to Libertarians (Market Supremacists), is that they seek political power. They know human nature. And the human is a scared animal, that seeks shelter. Arnold Gehlen called the homo sapiens (german:) "Mängelwesen" (english: deficient being). In all fields we have our master in nature in form of an animal. We lost our fur and so we need shelter in form of housing and so on. Marxists do not reject political power (like Ron Paul in his rhetoric). Because the power is out there. Even in a free market (Libertarian) utopia, there would be winners and losers. Kings and peasants. Or even slaves. That's where we're heading according to Spengler, but slowly in the next few hundred years.

What they got wrong was assuming that individuals could be forced to work and have the product of that work taken from them and redistributed by a bureaucrat with absolute power.... and not have this system corrupted on the one hand by lazy, apathetic workers or on the other by oligarchy.

Capitalism works better because it provides a more immediate and appreciable reward, a reward which better motivates the individual as it results from competition in the workplace. Natural selection abstracted into economics.

It's irrelevant because whether the system of communism is baseless or not, it is still believed in and promoted. This ideal applied to humanity will of course not be reached. The ideal is not real; the real can only ever be measured by how closely it approaches the ideal.
But in this case, the ideal is founded upon a complete incomprehension of human nature in favour of a distortion based around altruism. Which itself is founded upon the emotional reward we sense when we come to the aid of our friends/family/in-group.

Only in this case the in-group has been expanded to include the entirety of humanity.
Which is another reason why discrimination based on any factor applicable to human beings is overlooked.
One identifies with the species as a whole, which it is one's duty to serve.
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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptySat Dec 29, 2012 1:47 am

apaosha wrote:

Perhaps the "masses of poor people supporting parties openly defending the rich" represent a reverence for their betters which the class warfare of marxism seeks to invert and exploit, turning that reverence to resentment.... ressentiment.

This "supporting of the parties who openly defend the rich", by the poor, is Nihilism, whichever way you look at it. It is not turned into resentment by outside forces. It is resentment in itself.
__________

David Icke is a priest for the spiritual awakening.
___________

I once got to know a regional politician of a medium sized party here. He was very talkative, about what an asshole he is (he didn't see it that way, but every one of his words pointed exactly in that direction and they came out of him like a stream of dung.). A real stereotype politician. He makes enough money by that. In addition to his income as a politician, he receives some kind of wellfare and doesn't work anything else. He had some chronic illness, so he got some kind of payment from the state. If its wellfare or something else, I don't know. He was obese and not very smart. A christian. But he made good money being a politician. Enough to live pretty good! And with very little work!

It is an open secret also, that politicians use their political influence and power and thereby gain higher paying jobs in the economy as they would otherwise.

In contrast to that:

I was regionally active in the building of a small libertarian party here. So I took part in some discussions there. And saw their limited view on politics. They were all merely experts on economy. But politics is always socialist and they didn't want to go there. And the peer pressure held everybody back from achieving anything politically.

Politics is always a form of Socialism. Libertarians are unrealistic dreamers.
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apaosha
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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptySat Dec 29, 2012 4:55 am

Laconian wrote:
apaosha wrote:
Perhaps the "masses of poor people supporting parties openly defending the rich" represent a reverence for their betters which the class warfare of marxism seeks to invert and exploit, turning that reverence to resentment.... ressentiment.

This "supporting of the parties who openly defend the rich", by the poor, is Nihilism, whichever way you look at it. It is not turned into resentment by outside forces. It is resentment in itself.

It can be the same as any lesser beings love and reverence, or on the other hand hatred and jealousy, for the one that can excel it.

It depends whether you resent that distance or admire it. The individual's reaction to the prospect of achievement that may lie beyond his grasp is revealing.
Resenting it in the person of the other could be a form of revenge, the wish to destroy that which shames one by it's very existence. Admiring it, the urge to attain it or even exceed it.

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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptySat Dec 29, 2012 10:46 am

I understand what you're saying. But as a poor person, voting for a party that supports the rich, has negative real life implications for this person. This is not like a poor man today admiring Napoleon for his guts.
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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 16, 2013 5:58 pm

apaosha wrote:
I have this bad feeling that the human race is being groomed for communism, according to the the Marxist Historical narrative, and that Americanisation is being used as the tool to implement that.

Pages 10-13; adapting Bataille's premise;
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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 16, 2013 11:29 pm

Laconian wrote:


To be German is to be full of shame, guilt and self-hatred. It's to be white-trash. To tatoo oneself and pierce every possible part of the body as a display of masochism, for all the guilt.


Really? I am of German heritage and I have no shame or guilt about anything re: the past. And I am proud of the German culture, the German artists, musicians, authors...I love German Romanticism and identify with it strongly.

Are all Germans really so self-hating?
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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 16, 2013 11:57 pm

Thanks for mentioning Fritz Lang in the other topic. I've got to watch his Nibelungen on youtube. Amazing.

You know how it is. We are prisoners here. It's all Capitalism. But you cannot adapt to Capitalism. That's the problem. It makes you adapt and destroys you. I feel like everything is falling apart. The modernity hypothesis doesn't fit anymore. That was still talking of an alienated in-dividual. Today I see only consumers, cheaters, gossipers. Fragments of people. Animated memes. Trends. Fashions. Currents. No whole beings anymore. Postmodernism, is what I look into now.

The Americans at least got guns. We have nothing to protect ourself against this humanism. This all levelling, except to grow into own memes. Be a man. Become a man, as a child of a generation without fathers. Fathers whose spirits were broken to let this decline happen. Nietzschean Last Men. I see escapism on a large scale. People talk of progress, but stay stuck on the tools. Deluded. No sense for male and female differences foremost.

But not all are self-hating. There are some wonderful people. Decent, hard working. Self-hatred, otherwise called Nihilism, is something all have to overcome with all the power they've got. I'm thinking: people born between 1960 and 1970 have some potential. They are the post 1968 generation, but consciously went through some important decades. I am born in 1980, which is again too late ("No future generation" is even a meme).
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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 17, 2013 1:20 pm

Laconian wrote:
Today I see only consumers, cheaters, gossipers. Fragments of people. Animated memes. Trends. Fashions. Currents. No whole beings anymore. Postmodernism, is what I look into now.

It's strange how Morris Berman, author of Dark Ages America, thinks that the USA is the only country suffering from a spiritual death and narcissism. It's every culture. I've been to and traveled in various places/locales, and it seems to me the there is very little difference between, say, the USA and Canada for example. I find Canadians often criticising Americans, but they're not much better. Europeans? They're a bit more cerebral, a bit anyhow, but I imagine that is not the case as much anymore as to how I recall when I visited frequently among family.

Anyway, what you mentioned is what I see too...nothing but consumers, people interested in idle talk, fragmented personalities, "animated memes" (I like that one), and an emphasis on trends, and so on. But hasn't that been the case for a while? I am reminded of Kierkegaard's writings, and the almost utter contempt he seemed to have for society at large. Or maybe I'm wrong.

I do agree feminism has caused some tremendous damage, and I agree with Satyr's points, but at the same time, people throughout time seem to have been, in general, dullards. Another POV I could mention is Hermann Hesse, in his novel Steppenwolf, there is another book that shows us that this common "mediocre" or lukewarm man has always been in existence, to some degree, although I do think it's gotten much worse today. Another author, Colin Wilson, also writes about such topics in his books The Outsider and Beyond the Outsider.

Maybe we are all just outsiders? Btw, not that it's important in the scheme of things, but I seem to be the only female outsider I know of, if can be said, except for one other female on this forum. That's pretty sad actually. All my life I have never met anyone of the female gender I could truly say had a good head on her shoulders.

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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 18, 2013 6:03 pm

Cold Weasel wrote:

I'm worried that "narcissism," "psychopathy," and other terms are being co-opted [...]

This is being done already. You might look into Alice Miller's first book "The drama of the gifted child". There is healthy narcissism. It's important to have a sense for self. In postmodernity this is more and more slipping away. People loose themselves, become fragments, play roles all the time, are never themselves. Those terms can be used and are used as weapons to make people silent. Like Star Signs too unfortunately. "Tell me your star sign, and I tell you what kind of a motherfucker you are." ("Motherfucker" from Freuds Oedipus Complex, the most shaming idea of all, to slander sexuality, connect it to guilt and the unnatural, the bad, the evil. Which eventually lead to 1968 as a reaction to Freud and Psychiatry, which was unnatural in its complete "liberation" as well.)
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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptyTue Jan 22, 2013 7:14 pm

Many Americans on here look for their European past, their roots. I see value in that and can relate having lived I the US for a year and traveled plenty. As a European on the otherhand, I admire the American Spirit. The brave personal freedom seeking spirit. (Gunrights, private property, homeschooling..). This is something I don't see over here at all. (Just "rebellion" in the weird class-war leftist sense, which is an open call for more enslavement.) There is in my opinion false and too much anti-americanism over here (while the worst parts are copied anyway). And Americans today seem to be overly self-critical. Seeing themselves as the leaders of the decline. Europeans struggle for their identity just as much or even more. For americans it is easy to romantacize, the ancient more noble european past. Living here this is not so easily possible. Since todays reality is very different.

I think Europeans can actually learn from Americans, not just the other way round. I have seen German Forums, but never encountered as fresh minds as on here. This is international, but there is a distinct american influence on here too. A very productive one.

Sloterdijk who's book discussion I posted in "Postmodernism" is an example of the intellectualism over here. It is superior to any other I know, still today. (But also impotent, in its heavyness!) We come from a long line of thinkers ... but that has turned us passive and melancholic. Look at the German thinkers: Heidegger, Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, Goethe and Kant, to name just the most famous ones and compare them with Shakespeare. There is nothing "light" about German thinkers. It's all heavy stuff. (Goethe tried some lightness, okay. So did Nietzsche.) Our strongest connection in Europe therefor is France, who with their l'art de vivre, know how to live lightly, concentrate on the more important factors in life and leave out the rest.

Sloterdijk is a product of Germany today. A form of Leftism that is so self-reflected/self-aware, that can't even be called Leftism anymore. A form of Religiosity that is so academic, that it can't be called religious anymore. An academic hubris that is so above and beyond any other nation in the world. A form of Nihilism that is beyond measure. A political correctness that is so kant-ian that makes anything else look barbaric (what Caesar described the Germans of his time as: Barbarians, maybe this is where people here wanted to get away from, the image of the barbaric tribes in history). An academia so high above any other in the world.


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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptyTue Jan 22, 2013 7:18 pm

If you want to, lighten your heart...go further back.

The Hellenes had the charisma of boys playing on the waves of the Aegean.
Zorba dances, and laughs, dealing with life and its conundrums.

The children of the light teach us how to be human.

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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 23, 2013 3:36 pm

Zorba is great. But his pupil was british/greek himself, not german. So again Shakespeare versus Goethe/Nietzsche. I wonder if Zorba had even seen potential in a german guy and what that movie would have been like.

I like this topic. Nationalities definitely play a role.

Today I observed an elderly muslim woman arguing with her husband. I've never seen that before. So Feminization is even reaching traditional Islam. (With the younger generation I've seen that before.)

I might read the book you recommended on how Philosophy became socratic. My impression of what I learn from the post socratic thinkers (who are mostly presented) is that they are top-heavy. And then I know some of the myths of course and they are very much about fighting and all sorts of fantastic elements.

So I don't actually know where this Zorba character "comes from" (mimetically). But he gets me curious in Greece or Hellas.

I've been to Rhodos, and some parts of the mainland too. Maybe the sunny weather and the insane beauty of the landscape play a role too. This is the Ruine of Monolithos (on Rhodos):

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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 25, 2013 8:37 am

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptyMon Jan 28, 2013 11:47 am

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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 14, 2013 6:46 pm

Putting my favorite topic on top of the list again..

I may have done this topic injustice, when I first answered to it. I think nationality is a very defining topic. What is a nation? What is a culture? It is more than just borders, a defined geography. It is a common history. A shared language, belief systems, rituals, ..

Focussing on just race alone, to me doesn't solve the current problems either. Liberals (like Sloterdijk) will always find ways to point at the race-mixings throughout history. Alexander the Great even ordered race mixing.

This may belong in the other topic ("Race Mixing"), but the idiotic meme seems to be very strong that the strongest traits of each race are passed on and manifest in a multi-ethnic, mixed race but still superior future mankind.

This too relates to the progressivist agenda of cybernetics. Transhumanism, as others call it. The merging of man with his machines.
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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 14, 2013 7:07 pm

The issue of race-mixing is an interesting one.
Female promiscuity can be explained, if we explore it honestly.

Male promiscuity is more direct and obvious.
A male has a shelf-life, and so seeding as fast as possible, as many females as possible, is his procreative goal.
He becomes obsessed with it, though he is the less sexual of the two sexes.

Control over female promiscuity is short-lived. A female is a force of nature, and trying to control females is like trying to control a river, or an avalanche.
Paternalism is the end result of this attempt to control and to direct female sexuality, and along with it male sexuality.
It is also why with Modernity we are discussing a feminization of man, rather
than a masculinization of man.


Female promiscuity is a bit more complex.
She is both driven to maintain loyalties, so as to enable her offspring to grow to maturity, and she is also driven to expand the gene-pool, so as to preserve one or more of her offspring against non-organic threats: climate, disease, environmental changes in general, and so on.

For her sampling another tribe's genes is beneficial to her genetic continuance in the long-term.

Yes, she wants to reproduce the dominant genes, but she also wants to propagate a more varied expression of it, and she also wants to hedge her bets, and propagate the less dominant genes...just in case things drastically change.

Change is a feminine game; males try to prevent it from occurring.
This is why tribalism, with its particular morays and ideals and behavioral standards, has always been a male obsession.

A female is, or was, often traded or taken as booty, and she is made to adapt and to serve whatever genes she is controlled by.
She surrenders with ease, because resistance would be her death.

Her nature is to give-in, to bend, to go-along, and to follow.

Males are less prone to go outside their racial group, unless they feel that their own group has been emasculated, and/or degraded, and/or weakened, to such an extent that racial sampling becomes, for them, both a form of vengeance, and a way of reintegrating their tribe's genetic profile back into the gene pool, by fertilizing another tribe's females who are more than willing to give-in.

Amongst the Negroes it is the males who more often go outside their racial group, whereas male Orientals, and Europeans, to a lesser extent, are less likely to do so.

Amongst the females of these groups we find the influence of culture and of intelligence.

Cultures in decline are those who have lost control over their females, allowing them to go outside the racial or tribal, or national lines, and forcing their own males to do so just to compensate.

Negro females are less likely to marry outside their race for two
reasons:

1- Males of other races find them less attractive, both physically and mentally, and would go outside their race only out of desperation.

2- Because of current cultural debasement, these, more sophisticated races are less attractive to Negro females and to any female who is returned to a primal, simplistic, sexual existence (dumbed-down). The more animalsitic Negro male is more attractive to females just released from the bonds of
civilization – what they call Paternalism; well, at least somewhat liberated.

For a female race-mixing is a wonderful thing; for males it is an affront to everything he is and stands for.
If he be a true man, that is, and not an emasculated modern.

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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 14, 2013 7:51 pm

Interracial relationships, in the west, have become a form of retribution (female emancipation, and race equality are intertwined), of release from the bonds of European male dominance (symptom of a cultural disease called Nihilism), and of sexual fetishism, primarily amongst the European male, caused by thousands of years of sheltering.

The modern European boy begins to feel his own degradation, being a product of many generations of “rightful” procreation, and he also begins to feel his own emasculation, at the hands of unknown forces, and invisible phenomena, he internalizes as self-hatred.

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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 14, 2013 8:00 pm

A white female is the only avenue through which a white male can reproduce himself.

The loss of control of this means of replication will result in a descent into extinction.

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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 14, 2013 8:06 pm

Satyr wrote:

2- Because of current cultural debasement, these, more sophisticated races are less attractive to Negro females and to any female who is returned to a primal, simplistic, sexual existence (dumbed-down). The more animalsitic Negro male is more attractive to females just released from the bonds of
civilization – what they call Paternalism; well, at least somewhat liberated.

For a female race-mixing is a wonderful thing; for males it is an affront to everything he is and stands for.
If he be a true man, that is, and not an emasculated modern.

I see the problem of immigration mainly in their willingness to take any job they can for any wage offered (thereby maintaining Capitalism). This is destroying the market and popularizing the marxist critique (theory of alianation) and benefiting the old Left.

In the end a negroe would do a job a white man wouldn't for a low wage a white man wouldn't work for. So the immigrants actually take over todays workforce in the lower income sector. But since the middle class is taxed into the lower income sector and the lower income sector is sponsored, those become more and more levelled.

I see weakness put on a pedestal. Women, foreigners, .. and since white identity has been shamed, there is almost no counter force. So what the Right might gain from the (better) liberal discourse (intellectuals like Sloterdijk) is their widened focus on what constitutes a nation. And that is the Arts, Literature, and so on. A shared language.

These intellectual Liberals may be more ordering (civilized) than some Rightist, who still focus on more barbaric (earlier) tribal structures and detest civilization as being liberal as such..

What would happen if immigrants were required to prove their language skills.. after taking some required courses..? I think they would behave differently, more civilized. More self reflecting. The Jews have a long intellectual history (3000 years), the people from the anatolian regions, that are creating todays parallel societies come from a history of illiterate peasants. This is the difference.

What I see is the parallel societies, that hate the nations they live in, destroying these nations.

A Jew can read and write, why he is seen as white, by most liberals. People from the muslim countries have a more primitive backround.
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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 14, 2013 8:13 pm

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I have heard that this Liberal twit, used to enjoy watching his wife fornicate with other males.
More than just pornography.

Perhaps, we may find something akin to this fetish in interracial porn.
The display is one of parity....of human equality, ye the pelasure derived through ti is one of vengeful release of anger.
Like watching a female fornicate with an animal.

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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptyThu Apr 18, 2013 9:52 pm

apaosha wrote:
A white female is the only avenue through which a white male can reproduce himself.

The loss of control of this means of replication will result in a descent into extinction.

How do you define the White Race? or a White Man?

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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptyFri Apr 19, 2013 2:34 pm

Lyssa wrote:
How do you define the White Race?

Indo-European derivatives. Northern European, Northern Mediterranean, Eurasian.

Talk about a pure white race is misleading as there is variation within any grouping. Pure implies homogeneity, uniformity. All whites are not clones. A generality like race denotes a range in which individuals fall within, not a rigid absolute.
You could further divide the race into sub-races or ethnicities; nordic, celtic, germanic, greek, slav, etc. This would include Ashkenazim, as they are derivatives genetically of all of the above.

I am a celt, with a little scandinavian through the Normans on my father's side. There are distinct differences in appearance, behaviour and psychology between my own people and for example the slavs.... of which there are many now in Ireland. Bone structure, pigmentation and inherent psychological predisposition are not the products of cultural differences, upbringing, nurture or what have you. So these 2 groups are both white, yet they are distinct from eachother on a basis that goes beyond learned behaviour. It is an inescapable, inherent difference on the level of genetics.

In the same way, any category could be infinitely broken down into sub-categories: whites become Celtic, celtic becomes a family of celts, a family becomes an individual, an individual becomes the various body parts of that individual - bones, flesh, organs... which can be further subdivided.
Point is, again, such a categorisation is an approximation of where in a range an individual subject will occur. Variation within a categorisation is not an invalidation of that categorisation, nor does it refute it unless the variation occurs beyond the range set by the categorisation.

Beyond the biological, you can like the Greeks with their Hellenism consider non-whites Westernized if they are raised in a certain way, speak the language and have been trained to function in Western society. But they are not White. White is a race, which is analogous to breeds in dogs; a difference at the genetic level which carries with it inherent differences in phenotype, psychology, temperament, intelligence, sociability and whatever other variable you care to name.

Funny how my Golden Cocker Spaniel is of a breed known for Rage Syndrome.... yet this knowledge that genetics affects behavioural psychology is never applied to humans.

Quote :
or a White Man?

The Germans had an Ideal:

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Look at those eyes. That predatory intellect. The aggressive thinker.

Negroes are typified by excess and exaggeration. Aggression without reason. Emotion without thoughtfulness. Huge penises, or tits or asses, compensating for what is missing. Or an over-specialization.
East Asians are the reverse. High intellect, drone-like discipline and a reverence for the group. Minimal aggression, extreme restraint within their sheltered environments... which when broken like with the Mongolians and especially the Japanese reaches the opposite extreme. Small, slender bodies. Physically unaccomplished.

I said before somewhere that Caucasians occupy the median between specialization in physicality and intellect, emotion and reason. They didn't over-specialize and that this may account for their global dominance. Aggression tempered by reason. Reason empowered by aggression.

The Ideal of a white male, would be the god-king; the personification of his culture and his people. Gods like Zeus, Odin, Thor, Jupiter, An Dagda.
This individual would be the product of everything his nation valued and aspired towards, the evidence of their high achievement. To the Pagans, the Gods were super-humans, idealized, perfect human beings.
Also surpassable and conquerable. Contrast this with the various semetic cults and their omnipotent, omniscient abstraction, distant, unattainable, unreachable, before which mankind can only bow in ignorance. There is a lot there that is being said of the different characters of the peoples who crafted those mythologies. Christianization of Europe destroyed a great deal.

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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptySat Apr 20, 2013 4:42 pm

That is a neat presentation.

You say, "Beyond the biological, you can like the Greeks with their Hellenism consider non-whites Westernized if they are raised in a certain way, speak the language and have been trained to function in Western society. But they are not White. White is a race, which is analogous to breeds in dogs; a difference at the genetic level which carries with it inherent differences in phenotype, psychology, temperament, intelligence, sociability and whatever other variable you care to name."

I think likewise, but to pause here;
You have a difference between a bio-genetic race and as you say and what I call a race of memetic-Carriers grafted non-biologically/culturally alone, on an alien population that becomes functionally-'white'; but what of that section that is White in appearance and genetically, but the mind of a non-I.E.? Would you call this section White-degenerates or non-Whites?
What weight would you place on a non-White I.E.-Carrier as against a White in biology only - do you value memes or genes more given the conditions today?
Given that you have said, any route other than a genetic white female is sure white-extinction,
I'm assuming you lean towards the latter..., in which case, hypothetically speaking, you'd rather choose a white-jewess or a white-muslim to a mongolian-buddhist?


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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptySat Apr 20, 2013 8:16 pm

Genes before memes. I want my children to look like like me, to be continuations of my genetic line. If genes were the only consideration, or at least the primary one, then a jew or muslim with the right genes would be preferable to a non-white woman with a brilliant mind and an heroic meme... of course.

I saw a girl yesterday on the way home with porcelain white skin, red hair and blue eyes. I don't want that to disappear. I want a place in the future for that kind of beauty.
This desire is it's own meme. The gene finding it's continuance in the meme, as opposed to the conflict between the two which leads to mongrelization. I'm not red-haired or blue-eyed myself but I would prefer that those phenotypes be preserved.

But this is only with regard to preservation, conservation. Which is a passive, defensive point of view with an implication of the past opposing and resisting the present and future, rather than seeing them as the past's avenue of continuation, advancement. The implication of the has-been, the overcome, the fading, the replaced. Not ... progressivist, with it's implications of forward movement, newness, creation, it's claim on the future and associations with race-mixing, miscegenation and multi-culturalism.

Interesting that a mono-dominant racial future is considered taboo, when in nature we see competition between various genetically distinct organisms for resources and territory, the eventual victor wiping out it's competitors and emerging as the only occupant of it's niche.

Interesting also that Jewishness passes from the mother. A willingness to incorporate the other within the self, as opposed to a resistance to and opposition of the self against the other. A very effeminate strategy. "The only race is the human race."

How does the meme become the gene? Do you think it is possible that individuals from certain races being bearers of certain traits could be combined - bred - in order to result in a higher, nobler species?
What traits? What races? Towards what goal and in what combinations? What would be lost through these combinations and how could or should that be avoided?

Is the Ubermensch the product of a eugenics program?

Quote :
You have a difference between a bio-genetic race and as you say and what I call a race of memetic-Carriers grafted non-biologically/culturally alone, on an alien population that becomes functionally-'white'; but what of that section that is White in appearance and genetically, but the mind of a non-I.E.? Would you call this section White-degenerates or non-Whites?

I said "westernized", not "becomes white".

If we are to say that the concept of the West as a memetic group is the creation of a genetic lineage, whites, and that this memetic grouping can be applied to non-whites, then we are describing a memetic conquest.

But the memetic group called the "West" is a construct of Hellenism and Judaism, not the race as a whole.

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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 21, 2013 10:05 pm

apaosha wrote:
Genes before memes. I want my children to look like like me, to be continuations of my genetic line. If genes were the only consideration, or at least the primary one, then a jew or muslim with the right genes would be preferable to a non-white woman with a brilliant mind and an heroic meme... of course.

From a Male point of view, I don't see how marrying a staunch jew/muslim female and entrusting the raising of your child to such a woman can ensure continuity of your genetic line - maybe one generation, maybe two... with the possibility of dominant semitic values, this child might open your line to alien races as that is the semitic mentality.
There's a self-conscious "white" jew who'd want to inculcate jewish values to her child, and the liberal kind of "white" jew who'd want to let the child decide for itself, etc. - a non-interfering non-chalance. So, relatively speaking, would a Dominant White male, have a slightly better chance of inculcating His values and ensuring his genetic line with the latter than the former?
On the one hand, if I look at Nietzsche, its children born from very staunch religious backgrounds that strive and turn out to be free-spirited, and on the other, if I look at Laconian, children born to atheist parents drift to Xt. and Xt. churches out of 'curiosity' and 'feel at home' there. Of course, these are extreme individual cases, but I'm noting range of possibilities. So, in the end, marrying either kind of semite is a risk, although a male might prob. find it less insulting and more hopeful of his line, marrying the latter than the former.

This is feasible from a strictly Male point of view; for, any self-respecting female marrying a self-respecting jew/muslim male would have to abandon her heritage to the one she's marrying into and carry on his tradition as any proud male would insist - this is unthinkable.

Any self-respecting person would want to uphold the conditions that upheld them. This is Themis/Dharma.
To desert your own at their low point of decadence would count as a kind of self-betrayal. So a self-respecting female would value and risk a reasonable white trash to an alien other with a strong I.E. meme.

But if White-degenerates, as in someone who is irreligious or totally dud/brain-dead, and who would leave the upbringing to his woman, do not exist, then the only choice left is between a non-white I.E.-meme-carrier and death; she could go either way, and I regard either path noble.
If we understand every new Beginning comes with a Sacrifice, a necessary death, and what is genetic loss here is a memetic gain to the Same Race, then that woman would have to be counted as equally self-respecting. She transfers blood and keeps the fire going. This would be salutory, and brave.

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PostSubject: Re: What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? What does it mean to be a true Greek? ...Irish? ...American? - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 21, 2013 10:06 pm

Quote :
I saw a girl yesterday on the way home with porcelain white skin, red hair and blue eyes.

Sounds pretty.

Quote :
I don't want that to disappear.

I understand.

Quote :
I want a place in the future for that kind of beauty.
This desire is it's own meme. The gene finding it's continuance in the meme, as opposed to the conflict between the two which leads to mongrelization. I'm not red-haired or blue-eyed myself but I would prefer that those phenotypes be preserved.

I differentiate between a body I inherit and a body that I have made my Own. We come into this world with all sorts of desires, multivarious drives, all natural growing in their own directions, but I can't call my body mine unless I have tempered it [ranked my drives in a certain order in a way my body permits me to] and made it my own, initiated myself - gave birth to myself from myself like Odin or what the Gita says. Blind indulgence in a desire does not speak Me; its a body that speaks 'through' me, which in the extreme is what we call Madness, pathos-logic-al.
Self-indulgence is a yielding.
Initiation is overcoming of self-control through self-control [from contra- + rolling - against rolling].
Every desire has to be sifted coldly to the bottom till there remains no difference between body and self - what is called "effortless effort" - to act with no consciousness of struggle. To initiate yourself means to become like a self-rolling or self-propelling wheel [I recall Zarathustra's 'child' here - that innocence which wills its own willing, a first movement, etc.]. - you put yourself on automatic and free yourself to other things.
Initiation is the will for Restraint-Without-Pleasure. Taking pleasure in self-restraint becomes another indulgence, another yielding-to. Initiation is rather self-joy. Then yes, desire Is its own meme.

There's also the need to differentiate those who want to mingle with other races from slavish self-hatred [passive nihilism], and those from affirmative self-hatred [active nihilism, wanting to overcome and perfect and enrich themselves, etc.].

I'm not well-informed in this stream, perhaps you can tell me if redheads are known for any distinctive characteristic, temperament, skill or evolutionary advantage?

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