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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 09, 2013 2:02 pm

Satyr wrote:
By the way...trying to create complexity with verbal acrobatics and semantics is a feminine disposition.

A male orders...and ordering entails a simplification.


Yes. Doesn't that characterize all Leftist writings in general?
One resorts to codes because of fear of censorship or one does not wish to be understood by all.

"The result was that a re­markable amount of the output of Western Marxism became a pro­longed
and intricate Discourse on Method. The primacy accorded to this
endeavour was foreign to Marx, in any phase of his development. The
degree to which epistemological themes dominated this whole tradition
can be seen in the titles ofits characteristic works. Korsch's Marxism
and Pltilosophy set out the basic rubric, at the very outset. The
companion volume published by Lukacs in the same year opened with an
essay entitled What is Orthodox Marxism?, which concluded confidently
that the term referred 'exclusively to method'.8 This precept was
thereafter to find faithful reflection in the obsessive methodologism
of the works of the subsequent canon: books entitled successively
Reason and Revolution (Marcuse), Destruction of Reason (Lukacs), Logic
as a Positive Science (Della Volpe), Tne Prohlem oj Method and
Critique ofDialectical Reason (Sartre), Negative Dialectic (Adorno),
Reading Capital (Althusser).

The second-order nature of the discourse developed by these works - on
Marxism, rather than in Marxism - had a further corollary. The
language in which they were written came to acquire an increasingly
specialized and inaccessible cast. Theory became, for a whole
historical period, an esoteric discipline whose highly technical idiom
measured its distance from politics. Marx's own work, of course, had
by no means always been conceptually easy, for readers of his own time
or posterity. But both his early philosophical texts and his late
economic works (the two most difficult parts of his oeuvre) owed their
initial system of terms to pre-existent theoretical ensembles -
essentially Hegel and Ricardo - which they sought to criticize and
surpass, by the production of new concepts clearer and closer to material reality:
less 'hypostatized' (in the vocabulary of the young Marx), less
'theologicaP (in that of the mature Marx). Moreover, while never
concealing the intrinsic difficulties for a reader of mastering any
scientific discipline, Marx after 1848 always sought to present his
thought in as simple and lucid a way as possible, to maximize its
intelligibility to the working class for which it was designed. The
care which he took for this purpose on the French translation of
Capital is famous.

By contrast, the extreme difficulty oflanguage characteristic ofmuch
of Western Marxism in the twentieth century was never controlled by
the tension ofa direct or active relationship to a proletarian
audience. On the contrary, its very surplus above the necessary
minimum quotient of verbal complexity was the sign of its divorce from
any popular practice. The peculiar esotericism of Western Marxist
theory was to assume manifold forms: in Lukacs, a cumbersome and
abstruse diction, freighted with academicism; in Gramsci, a painful
and cryptic frag­ mentation, imposed by prison; in ,Benjamin, a gnomic
brevity and indirection; in Della Volpe, an impenetrable syntax and
circular self­ reference; in Sartre, a hermetic and unrelenting maze
of neologisms; in Althusser, a sybilline rhetoric of elusion. 9

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 09, 2013 2:20 pm

Codes is also what Nietzsche used...that Oracle-like method, which Christianity adopted and applied in the Bible.

Then let us clarify...simplify.
To speak clearly in a world dominated by slaves and the control of slaves whoa re now convinced of being masters of their own destiny, is to be expected.
I often speak of parasitism.

In a world that punishes divergence, while professing to be pro individuality, it is best to wear the skins and the smells and the ho9rns of those one depends upon for nutrition.

There is no shame in this.

But when dealing with your own kind, it is noble to speak clearly, simply and directly...like a man.
Obfuscating and clouding your words in rhetoric with no substance is to pretend that you understand more than you actually do.
The world is full of this pretense, making knowledge a synonym with understanding.

Remember the laconic decree which simplified an entire mindset down to three basic tenets:
Know thyself
and
Nothing in Excess
and
Make a pledge and mischief is nigh

The third of which has little application in a world with no responsibilities and no honor.
The entire code of conduct of Apollo is contained in these three pledges.

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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 09, 2013 2:38 pm

Satyr wrote:
Codes is also what Nietzsche used...that Oracle-like method, which Christianity adopted and applied in the Bible.

In fact, he's argued for the opposite; for Clarity and Simplification.
I'll have to check for his quote; meanwhile a second-hand reference:

"Nietzsche cautions us, we should not infer, as many do, that
the best style is the one most suited to whatever spirit we happen to
wish to communicate. On the contrary, the best style is the one most
suited to communicating the best spirit, the spirit most worthy of
communication:
Learning to write well . . . Always to invent things more worthy of
communi- cation and actually to be able to communicate them; to become
translatable into the languages of neighbors; to make ourselves
accessible (zuga ̈nglich) to the understanding of those foreigners who
learn our language; so that all goods become common-goods, and
everything stands free for the free (den Freien Alles frei stehe);
finally, to prepare that still so distant condition of things, in
which good Europeans will come into possession of their great task:
the direction and supervision of total earth-culture. – Whoever
preaches the opposite, not concerning himself with writing well and
read- ing well – both virtues grow together and decline together – in
fact shows peoples a way that they may become ever more national: he
augments the sickness of this century and is an enemy of good
Europeans, an enemy of free spirits."


"The task, that is, is to create the style best suited to the
communication of the tragic, Dionysian spirit, and thus to the
development of tragic, Dionysian culture.
The question, however, is what general strictures would apply to such
a style? First, tragic style must have something in common with the
style and language of those who are not yet possessed by the tragic
spirit. For if this were not the case it would be incapable of
communicating anything to them. Communication requires commonality,
and so tragic style must make use of words, concepts, figures, and
conventions in common use:
Three-quarters of Homer is convention; and it is similar with all
Greek artists, who had no reason for the modern rage for originality.
They lacked all fear of convention; through this indeed they were
connected (sie hingen zusammen) with their public. Conventions are the
achieved artistic means, the toilsomely acquired common language, with
which the artist can ac- tually communicate himself to the
understanding of the audience...That which the artist invents beyond
convention he gives out from his own voli- tion (aus freien Stu ̈cken)
and with it puts himself at risk, in the best case with the result
that he creates a new convention."

"In Nietzsche’s terms, common words are words become petrified, words
that have entombed particular views and values and therefore func-
tion as prejudices, as invisible boundaries which people using common
language can neither think beyond nor even see. In the shortest of the
three hundred and fifty aphorisms that comprise “The Wanderer and His
Shadow,” Nietzsche writes: “The danger of language for spiritual
freedom. – Every word is a prejudice.”13 In Dawn, he elaborates,
writing first:
Words lie in our way ! – Everywhere the ancients erected a word, they
believed they had made a discovery. How different it stood in truth! –
They had touched on a problem, and in supposing they had solved it
they had created a hindrance to its solution. – Now in every act of
knowing (Erkenntniss) one must stumble over rock-hard, immortalized
words, and will thereby sooner break a leg than a word.14
And then: “Words present in us. – We always express our thoughts with
the words we have at hand. Or, to express my whole suspicion: we have
at every moment only the thought for which the words we have at hand
make possible the approximate expression.”15
The problem, then, is somehow to use the common words with which one
can communicate to communicate something other than the com- mon
prejudices that they immortalize. The hope for a solution lies in
Nietzsche’s view that at the same time that they are stones and
stumbling blocks, words are also pockets into which various meanings
have been and can be stuffed.16 The trick is thus to load or stuff
these common pockets with tragic rather than decadent contents, and so
to transform people’s thinking by disrupting the prejudices of the
language they already speak."

"The tragic content with which language’s pockets must be stuffed is
itself the knowledge that words are stuffed pockets, that every word
is a prejudice. If this content can be communicated, it will undermine
the tendency of common language to reinforce the metaphysics of being
and the morality of enslavement, as it will expose the fact that words
do not refer to preexisting stable beings and values, but rather
temporarily create stable beings and values by artificially dividing
the chaotic cosmos into unified pieces to which we can henceforth
refer: “This has given me and continues to give me the greatest
trouble: to realize (einsehen) that unspeakably more lies in what
things are called than in what they are . . . It suffices to create
new names and valuations and probabilities, in order in the long run
to create new ‘things’." [W.Dudley; Hegel, N. and Philosophy]


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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 09, 2013 2:44 pm

And yet he produced a work based on metaphors and symbolism.

In this regard Schopenhauer was the more clear and direct mind.
He did not cloud his words with pretty verbiage nor was he feminine in his sly indirectness.
So shy was your sexually inexperienced boy.
Do you see it in his face in that picture with Salome and his buddy, who fucked her in the end?

If you want to say why Jews, for example, would not be hated, say it!!

Your worship of this man, clouds your own perceptions of him.
You remind me of Oliver, de Waal.

This shit of Will preceding consciousness is false.
He was human, all too human.
Not an idol...not a demi-god.

Break free...break free...see the faults in your ideals and your idols.

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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 09, 2013 3:51 pm

Satyr wrote:
And yet he produced a work based on metaphors and symbolism.

And yet, I have already explained on this forum, to keep in mind the contextual climate. N. saw J.-Xt. morality was being the "great antidote" against practical nihilism. That as long as forcing open situations of war, conflict, misunderstandings, did not happen, this morality of preventing the weak from dying would continue to reign. And the fact that their "good and evil" values too stem from the dissimulatory reversals of the Strong, would never get exposed. The idea Was to Promote War, misunderstandings - to push and widen that originary agon Rome vs. Judea which had stagnated into and being doused by herd morality. N. wanted to stir up the flame.
"This antagonism... - Not to be Allowed any longer to esteem the Lies we should like to tell ourselves." [WTP, 5]
N. wanted a cathartic war to break out, that would expose these lies, that would expose the decadents and the suicidals for who they were.

Quote :
In this regard Schopenhauer was the more clear and direct mind.

N. had other purposes.
Not only to incite war, but to show what the art of Philosophy should be like. - Powerful and Capable of even breaking open a war, of being a Ruling Regal Art.
Dividing history into two as he prophesied.

Quote :
He did not cloud his words with pretty verbiage nor was he feminine in his sly indirectness.

Verbiage? From the Master of Aphorisms and the Aphoristic Style... ha!

Quote :
So shy was your sexually inexperienced boy.
Do you see it in his face in that picture with Salome and his buddy, who fucked her in the end?

Who gives a damn about Salome? She made no secret of believing in multiple-livings with multiple-men. N. was no fool.
And what does it matter if he was sexually inexperienced or not; he Divided history into two.
Masculinity is about possessing Spirit; to allign word with deed.
He did what he set out to do, and that's all that matters.

Quote :
If you want to say why Jews, for example, would not be hated, say it!!

Why would he do that and have his books tyepcasted into anti-semitic literature when they weren't.
Why would he engage in such petty wars when he was out for Grand Politics,... playing dice with the Gods!
And what does it matter when the Jews themselves Get It that he was their most dangerous enemy - see George Waite's book 'Exquisite Corpse' - its a book by a scared Jew that shrieks shrill in fear of what N. was aiming to accomplish.
Its a N.-hostile book, which makes it all the more savoury.

Quote :
Your worship of this man, clouds your own perceptions of him.
You remind me of Oliver, de Waal.

hahaha Oliver was/is involved in creating a self-deification philosophy. He claims He Is the Mad God.
Do I remind you of him? Really?!!!
Is that all you got?
Please; if you are going to mis-understand me, find someone a little more Un-godly, a little less Jewish!!

Quote :
This shit of Will preceding consciousness is false.

It isn't. We've had this exchange.

Quote :
He was human, all too human.

Neither he, nor I deny it. And that's what makes him so fantastic.
What he's accomplished being human - the raising of the standard of what it means to be Human!

Quote :
Not an idol...not a demi-god.

Did you see me praying?
I affirm everything; he is part of my Fate, a strong part.
We are blood-related.

Quote :
Break free...break free...see the faults in your ideals and your idols.

"Being no longer human, why should I
Pretend humanity or don the frail attire?
Men have I known and men, but never one
Was grown so free an essence, or become
So simply element as what I am.
The mist goes from the mirror and I see.
Behold! the world of forms is swept beneath-
Turmoil grown visible beneath our peace,
And we that are grown formless, rise above-
Fluids intangible that have been men,
We seem as statues round whose high-risen base
Some overflowing river is run mad,
In us alone the element of calm."

Ezra Pound. Paracelsus In Excelsis

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 09, 2013 4:25 pm

Lyssa wrote:
N. had other purposes.
Not only to incite war, but to show what the art of Philosophy should be like. - Powerful and Capable of even breaking open a war, of being a Ruling Regal Art.
Dividing history into two as he prophesied.
And he never declared open warfare on anyone.
In fact he flattered Socrates and Jesus...and wrote Thus Spake Zathusrtra in a style where he could retain plausible deniability.

Lyssa wrote:
Verbiage? From the Master of Aphorisms and the Aphoristic Style... ha!
YES!!
Words upon words avoiding clarity...speaking over the heads of those he feared, making him popular, to0day, even amongst the chattel.

Who does not quote Nietzsche today or don not interpret the quote in whatever way he or she pleases?
This from a man with a stipend.

Fuck you and him together.
This pussyfooting and verbal crap, only Athenians would engage in. Socrates was a his idol, no?
This was a man?

Lyssa wrote:
Who gives a damn about Salome? She made no secret of believing in multiple-livings with multiple-men. N. was no fool.
And what does it matter if he was sexually inexperienced or not; he Divided history into two.
Masculinity is about possessing Spirit; to allign word with deed.
He did what he set out to do, and that's all that matters.
How easily you can relate to the common.
history?
For whom?
He "divided history in two" for whom?
For the manimals?
Big fucking deal.
Might as well feel proud for fucking a nigger.

Lyssa wrote:
Why would he do that and have his books tyepcasted into anti-semitic literature when they weren't.
Why would he engage in such petty wars when he was out for Grand Politics,... playing dice with the Gods!
You, like Sauwelios, have made an idol out of the idol breaker.
What did he do?
Connect modernity to the past?
Gods?
Only a worshiper would speak in such terms.

And where do "grand politics" avoid hate?

Lyssa wrote:
And what does it matter when the Jews themselves Get It that he was their most dangerous enemy - see George Waite's book 'Exquisite Corpse' - its a book by a scared Jew that shrieks shrill in fear of what N. was aiming to accomplish.
Its a N.-hostile book, which makes it all the more savoury.
Still covered with the syropy sweetness, which a Jew can reinterpret and pretend it said something else...like the damn Bible!!!
Where were his BALLS!!!!

Lyssa wrote:
hahaha Oliver was/is involved in creating a self-deification philosophy. He claims He Is the Mad God.
Do I remind you of him? Really?!!!
WRONG!!!
Oliver, a.k.a Sauwelios proposed Nietzsche as the God. Not himself...his Idol...like you.
He sniffed his every fart and called it daisies.
At least, you, are a FEMALE, biologically speaking...HE, Sauwelios, what the fuck was he?

Lyssa wrote:
It isn't. We've had this exchange.
Chicken/Egg debate.
No motive present, unless there is consciousness.
To have consciousness the first care you have is to preserve it.
The "excess" comes in once self-preservation is ensured, for a time being.

I know it is less noble...but I really do not give a shit.
Even the notion of nobility is a human ideal.

Lyssa wrote:
Did you see me praying?
Yes, I did.
I saw you on your knees, dear.
Would you bend so low for a living mortal, as I, or is your reverence reserved for the dead, and so immune to your scrutiny?

Lyssa wrote:
I affirm everything; he is part of my Fate, a strong part.
We are blood-related.
When I speak of my father I do not speak of him in a way that makes him seem immune to imperfection.
When I speak of my mother I do not speak of her as if she were pure.
When I speak of myself I do not speak of it as if I were perfect.

The rest is perfume.


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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 09, 2013 8:30 pm

Just because something came out of Nietzsches ass doesn't mean it isn't crap.
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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptyWed Jan 09, 2013 9:22 pm

Quote :
And he never declared open warfare on anyone.

Genealogy of Morality is pure declaration of why he declares war.
Ecce Homo is how he's declared war.
Antichrist is against whom and For whom he declares war.
Will to Power is him Declaring war.
Zarathustra is his delighting in declared war.

Quote :
In fact he flattered Socrates and Jesus...and wrote Thus Spake Zathusrtra in a style where he could retain plausible deniability.

One affirms the standards of individuality one has to overcome in order To overcome!
Zarathustra is a miracle given the suffering he experienced - the migraines, the nearing blindness, nearing insanity...
N. himself says, he was merely mouthpiece of an overwhelming and overpowering inspiration that spoke through him and unmade him in the process. "I fall down by my own word."

Quote :
Words upon words avoiding clarity...speaking over the heads of those he feared, making him popular, to0day, even amongst the chattel.

The intention Was to write books for everyone and no one. Fear? Didn't he say, when one wishes not to be read or understood too soon, one only Intimates. He was honest in wanting to be what he himself experienced. "Intimations". Doesn't he already say, all Philosophy in the end is really one's own autobiography.

"The development of a thinking and a language adequate to the tragic spirit, that is, must come about not through a thoughtful displacement of style, but through
a displacement of thought that enables a tragic style to emerge:
...Nothing is more compromising than a thought! Rather the condition before thought, the throng of not yet born thoughts, the promise of future thoughts, the world as it was before God created it – a recrudescence of chaos . . . Chaos makes intimations..." [Dudley]

"The idea (Vorstellung) of being a mere incarnation, mere mouthpiece, mere medium of overpowering forces...The concept of revelation, in the sense that suddenly, with unspeakable certainty and subtlety, some- thing becomes visible, audible . . . One hears, one does not seek; one takes, one does not ask who gives; like a lightning
bolt a thought flashes up, with necessity, in form without hesitation – I have never had a choice. A rapture whose tremendous tension occasionally discharges itself in a storm of
tears...a complete being-outside-of-oneself (Ausser- sichsein) . . . Everything happens involuntarily to the highest degree, but as in a storm of a feeling of freedom, of being unconditioned, of power, of divinity – The involuntariness of image, of metaphor, is the most curious of all; one has no more concept, what is an image, what is a
metaphor, everything offers itself as the nearest, most correct, simplest expression. It actually appears, to recall some words of Zarathustra, as if the things themselves approached and offered themselves as metaphors (“...Here the words and word-shrines of all being burst open to you; here all being wants to become word, all
becoming wants to learn to speak from you”). This is my experience of inspiration." [N., Joyful Wisdom]

Acute sufferers experience heightened epiphanic moments, and its even a wonder if they manage to hold and form into words, without being overwhelmed or collapsing under their weight. N. partially collapsed. That he managed to give voice to this much is something I'm grateful for.

Quote :
Who does not quote Nietzsche today or don not interpret the quote in whatever way he or she pleases?

What makes you think he did not want that? What makes you think he was a victim? What makes you think he did not foresee how he would handled?
He intended to have fun at their expense. He was a Satyr. He was a Player. A delightfully wicked one.
Its a shame not many men know how to play like he did. He mocked at everyone and the esp. the jews in a way that they cannot even say for certain whether he did or he didn't. In fact, your own brand of humour is quite like that. One walks away from you not knowing if they were flattered or mocked at. He shared his jokes for the few who could see the whole comedy of it.

Quote :
This from a man with a stipend.

Quite. Like the kind of music that flows from a Vivaldi, dirt-poor, starving on the streets, playing for pennies to secure a meal. Remarkable, how such things, how such creations leave an unforgettable, haunting feeling. You hear them once, and you carry them with you for life.
This from a man with a stipend, who sat at every nook and corner of all possible humiliations, and disadvantages.
A fine man would rather find his own hell and then his own heaven from his own hell, than be prancing about in a ready-made one.
How much he suffered. Surrounded by Idiots!! that drove him to nausea. And such suffocating women who decided everything for him, treating him like a child and an invalid. How much he wept. How much he made others laugh.
He was a rare beauty.
One goes away from him feeling richer, feeling challenged, feeling inspired and grateful - whether one is herd or the other kind.
Isn't that why I am on this forum here - because there are writings by people here that leave me feeling enriched and indebted.

Quote :
Fuck you and him together.

I plan to visit him and lie down on his grave. Don't try to stop me, please.
Bla. Wasn't your Hannibal sexually inexperienced too? What the hell was he doing changing clothes for some Clarice instead of enjoying her!
Didn't both N. and Hannibal both want to show how Unfree the other were! Weren't women and people just experiments to both?

Quote :
This pussyfooting and verbal crap, only Athenians would engage in. Socrates was a his idol, no?
This was a man?

Are you mad? Socrates was an ex-Spartan!!!
Spartans said, Come, get it.
Nietzsche was extra-Spartan. He said, You Will Have to come get it, because you don't have any other way! hahaha He left them no choice but to deal with him.
He was standing blocking their sunlight.
He made himself unignorable.
That's how irresistble he was/is. What a spartan beauty.
How he laughs with his mad twinkling eyes! at those jews.

Quote :
How easily you can relate to the common.
history?
For whom?
He "divided history in two" for whom?
For the manimals?
Big fucking deal.
Might as well feel proud for fucking a nigger.

How quick and eager you are to relate me to the common.
That's the point. He Was diving history for One and All. The ER of the Same was to tie down everyone with a Common zero-point, a Common ground, so that when two unrelatable things are brought together in the same space, they cannot But Want to Fight, to declare War against each other. He guessed the slaves would declare war from fear of having their comfortable snoozy morality pulled away in the ER paradigm, and they will have to face their own disgust and weakness and might be crushed to die, and so the slaves would fight with every cunning they've got to preserve their world, their morality, themselces. And he guessed the strong would declare war from excess because they cannot be any other way than Dominate, in the ER paradigm. If life were to eternally repeat, they'd rather die than be dominated, and this would push them to fight with every sophistication of mind, will and spirit.
He wanted to organize a Fight-club. Divide history in two for Both. Put a lion and a sheep together in a common paradigm, a common cage and say, there are no rules, except the Rule itself be preserved. One lives off the rule affirming everything.

Quote :
You, like Sauwelios, have made an idol out of the idol breaker.

You wish!

Quote :
What did he do?
Connect modernity to the past?
Gods?
Only a worshiper would speak in such terms. [/quote]

Only someone who saw themselves as God-like would speak in such terms.
He claimed he was a disciple of Dionysos.

Quote :
And where do "grand politics" avoid hate?

And who said it avoids?

Quote :
Still covered with the syropy sweetness, which a Jew can reinterpret and pretend it said something else...like the damn Bible!!!
Where were his BALLS!!!!

Where he wanted them!!! They play into his hands as easy as a dumb fox at the sniff of some blood spilling, some blood he's cut just about, just enough to drive them crazy, keep them confused. He makes them have to want to affirm him when they hate him. When all they can say is he is mad, he has aids, he is syphillitic, he was poor, he was a weak invalid, he was a monster, he was evil, he was a christ-lover,... he makes them expose their own level. He makes them take off their own clothes! What a parody.

Quote :
WRONG!!!
Oliver, a.k.a Sauwelios proposed Nietzsche as the God.

That's how he may have started. His project finally is him saying He Is the Mad God.

Quote :
Not himself...his Idol...like you.

That's it? A poke?
Its like me trying to do this to you -
"Canada is a country so square that even the female impersonators are women.
- Richard Brenner" ! hahaha

I want to be provoked, I want to taste some venom in your spittle. But its simply not true.
Your statements are as sharp as a sackful of screwdrivers, aren't they! Molon, Labe. !!

Quote :
He sniffed his every fart and called it daisies.
At least, you, are a FEMALE, biologically speaking...HE, Sauwelios, what the fuck was he?

What? Like a Female is supposed to feel shame at wanting to be the best, and if a slave, the best slave as well?
Just try and make me feel ashamed.

Quote :
Chicken/Egg debate.

Yes, that one.

Quote :
No motive present, unless there is consciousness.
To have consciousness the first care you have is to preserve it.
The "excess" comes in once self-preservation is ensured, for a time being.

The self is not characterized by the need to survive - that is just a mean,, the goal is always growth. The expression of
every living thing is growth, power - not preserving and survival, although it needs this minimal to function.
The aim of a F1 race car is to do as many laps - it stops for refuelling, to maintain itself, but only to want to do more rounds,
win the race, dominate others. Preservation is secondary, Life is an Overflowing. It is excess, growth, expansion.

Quote :
I know it is less noble...but I really do not give a shit.

I find that quality noble. Indifference. Its part of a noble being, and a noble bearing.

Quote :
Even the notion of nobility is a human ideal.

And your ideals determine the kind and level of human you are.


Lyssa wrote:
Did you see me praying?
[quote]Yes, I did.
I saw you on your knees, dear. [quote]

Is that worship, or is that how a woman dedicates value to a man?
A man who dedicated his life to Raising a spirit like hers?
A woman raises a man she feels elevated by through her down-going.
Fair?

Quote :
Would you bend so low for a living mortal, as I

Yes. Openly.
With pride.
You are my kind.

I would defend your philosopy tooth and nail as though my own - a huge part of it already was.
Does that make you my idol?

Lets suppose it does. Lets suppose N., you, and some other men are my idols.

Aren't you trapped in the moral historicism of what "idol" has come to mean, thanks to the J.-Xt. God, and to Plato?
What were idols to the pagans before them? When they worshipped the "Forms" in nature? The sun and the moon and trees and fire... Wasn't it man who gave them meaning, breathed life into them, until Plato and the Perfect Forms, the Ideal began to dictate meaning to man? The good, the perfect - Plato made man bow his head to the dictates of the Ideal Form. The ideal form was to be idolized.

But there are pre-moral times before all that, when you stood before your idol, you gave it meaning and affirmed your self in those. Your self. It became worth-ship.
Am I supposed to find that shameful?
To be intoxicated by life, and intoxicate it with my meaning and behold again the newly transformed world with my meaning woven into Life that intoxicates me again...
Nah.

Quote :
or is your reverence reserved for the dead, and so immune to your scrutiny?

Am I some coward?! Would I shy from exposing your flaws?
I know what to do.

Quote :
When I speak of my father I do not speak of him in a way that makes him seem immune to imperfection.
When I speak of my mother I do not speak of her as if she were pure.
When I speak of myself I do not speak of it as if I were perfect.

The rest is perfume.

"I want ever more to learn to see the necessary in things as the beautiful – thus will I be one of those who makes things beautiful. ...let that be my love from now on! I want to lead no war against the ugly.I do not want to accuse, I do not want to accuse the accusers even once. Let looking away be my only denial! And, all in all and on the whole: I want someday to be only a Yes-sayer!" [N.]

And what if I can see a larger whole than you, and all that is 'ugly and flawed and imperfect' in your dimension looks necessary and beautiful and a little less imperfect from how and where I see it a little higher... are you so arrogant you'd deny me my vision? :Wink All we can have are our own limited perspectives, and within that, I know perfectly what I see.


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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 10, 2013 4:55 am

Get off my topic with your Nietzsche discussion, you two lovebirds! Nietzsche was an exoteric.

Lyssa wrote:

Genealogy of Morality is pure declaration of why he declares war.

The intellectual with his thick glasses and the constant physical pain he was in! War? He was a cripple and went insane.

Quote :

Ecce Homo is how he's declared war.

The first example in New-Age ego masturbation. With his usual self-cucifixions also. Full of Sadomasochism.

Quote :

Antichrist is against whom and For whom he declares war.

A very academic valuable work, but he did have to re-read it (the Bible) in his last years. He couldn't escape that. Little Christian that he was.

Quote :

Will to Power is him Declaring war.

I admit, this was too dull for me to read through.

Quote :

Zarathustra is his delighting in declared war.

I admire this book. For once he tried to attain a view above mere cultural criticism. He was so involved with culture, that he was mostly anti-nature himself.
Like Jonathan Bowden.

Quote :

N. himself says, he was merely mouthpiece of an overwhelming and overpowering inspiration that spoke through him and unmade him in the process. "I fall down by my own word."

What a martyr. Just like Paulus' Jesus. You know the version that died for our sins. The Christ.

Quote :

Doesn't he already say, all Philosophy in the end is really one's own autobiography.

Because he was top-heavy. No wife, no children. No legacy passed on. Just egotistic writing-masturbation as a compensation for that.

Quote :

N. partially collapsed. That he managed to give voice to this much is something I'm grateful for.

Yes, worship your idol, little student! You know how Universities are leftist indoctrination centers?

Quote :

He was a Satyr. He was a Player. A delightfully wicked one.

LOL

Quote :

He mocked at everyone and the esp. the jews in a way that they cannot even say for certain whether he did or he didn't.

Princess of quotes and citations, would you please give us ONE example of that!

Quote :

He shared his jokes for the few who could see the whole comedy of it.

Like your "intuitive" deep understanding of Crowley? All claims my dear. Smoke and mirrors. Show us ONE example of this subtle (hidden) comedic side of N. and see if we can get it.

Quote :

And such suffocating women who decided everything for him, treating him like a child and an invalid.

Yes, because he was a child and an invalid, you moron!

Quote :

How much he wept. How much he made others laugh.

No comment.

Quote :

He was a rare beauty.

Emasculated.

Quote :

One goes away from him feeling richer, feeling challenged, feeling inspired and grateful - whether one is herd or the other kind.

Especially if one is herd, I suppose.

Quote :

Isn't that why I am on this forum here - because there are writings by people here that leave me feeling enriched and indebted.

No, you feel your pussy tingling.

Quote :

I plan to visit him and lie down on his grave. Don't try to stop me, please.

No comment.

Quote :

Didn't both N. and Hannibal both want to show how Unfree the other were! Weren't women and people just experiments to both?

Do you compare the FICTIONAL character of Hannibal with Nietzsche?

Quote :

Are you mad? Socrates was an ex-Spartan!!!

Ex, so he left Sparta or was made to leave...

Quote :

How he laughs with his mad twinkling eyes! at those jews.

Again. Back up THIS claim at least! Little poetry princess! You know the story of "Will to power" and who published it.

Quote :

He claimed he was a disciple of Dionysos.

That shows his emasculation right there! Of course he never even dared to break free in a dionysian sense.

Quote :

He makes them take off their own clothes! What a parody.

That's true.

Quote :

Preservation is secondary, Life is an Overflowing. It is excess, growth, expansion.

Yes.
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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 11, 2013 6:13 am

Laconian wrote:
Get off my topic with your Nietzsche discussion, you two lovebirds! Nietzsche was an exoteric.

Okay. I give in. Proceed then! Let's talk Nietzsche! I don't want to open a "Nietzsche"-topic.
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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 11, 2013 8:13 am

Quote :
Get off my topic with your Nietzsche discussion, you two lovebirds! Nietzsche was an exoteric.

How dare you corrupt our master-slave relation!Wink N. was both, for no one and everyone.

Quote :
The intellectual with his thick glasses and the constant physical pain he was in! War? He was a cripple and went insane.

All that and yet he never made excuses and sat at home; he chose to go to war at any capacity he could and served as a medic.
He did not go insane. He made himself go insane.

Quote :

The first example in New-Age ego masturbation. With his usual self-cucifixions also. Full of Sadomasochism.

Total discipline. Using himself as an example [so that his work can be open to scrutiny and verified] as to how food, climate and such things have a bearing on one's thinking, and writing.

Quote :

A very academic valuable work, but he did have to re-read it (the Bible) in his last years. He couldn't escape that. Little Christian that he was.

One overcomes by affirming. Its the Manly way. One does not simply brush things aside and pretend they have overcome it all. Everyday is a constant and continued confrontation - does life ever rest? Doesn't the sea bring forth again and again the same stupidity you have pushed back, the same dirt you have managed to keep down under?
One has to do battle everyday. Look for his passage on how he defines "The Great Health". One again and again overcomes the same things.
Satyr is a living example of this good health. Look at him constantly having to deal with the same idiots over the same topics again and again... its the Affirmative way of the Warrior. One does not simply cut something down and pretend they have won. Weeds grow again. Relentlessness makes you develop heart-muscle, that's how a Warrior and a Philosopher is born. It needs attitude and strenth of spirit to take in all that repeated nausea without becoming tired and bored of the same recurring things.


Quote :
I admit, this was too dull for me to read through.

Whatever.

Quote :

Quote:

N. himself says, he was merely mouthpiece of an overwhelming and overpowering inspiration that spoke through him and unmade him in the process. "I fall down by my own word."


What a martyr. Just like Paulus' Jesus. You know the version that died for our sins. The Christ.

Except in Zarathustra he differentiates this very difference - between himself and a christian martyr. I won't tell you the passage, since you've pretended to have already read it. I'll let you mire in your ignorance.


Quote :
Because he was top-heavy. No wife, no children. No legacy passed on. Just egotistic writing-masturbation as a compensation for that.

Philosophy, whether you put it down, or live it out can and only reveals You. Beyond the context of any marriage and what not. At the end of the day, your actions reveal who you are.


Quote :

Quote:

He mocked at everyone and the esp. the jews in a way that they cannot even say for certain whether he did or he didn't.


Princess of quotes and citations, would you please give us ONE example of that!

Have already covered that in the forum here. You find it. Swim. Wink

Quote :

Quote:

He shared his jokes for the few who could see the whole comedy of it.


Like your "intuitive" deep understanding of Crowley? All claims my dear. Smoke and mirrors. Show us ONE example of this subtle (hidden) comedic side of N. and see if we can get it.

See Human, all too Human, for example, and contrast with how he was in real life. He was known for his absolute courtesy, politeness, and gentlemanly behaviour with women, but then one reads what he really thought of them, and the humour it is just plain. He made fun of academia and scholars all his life, while he himself was one, a professor at the unv.
How he mocks and satyrizes his own profession is so funny.
And his calling himself the Prophet of the Future just adjacent to his saying I'm no saint, only a satyr is his being Artistic like Crowley was. No doubt he was deplorable and a thorough decadent in his lifestyle,, still one cannot but laugh at the whole theatrics of Crowley. All the "seriousness" of introducing a new religion, a new way of life is him being a Satyr as much as Nietzsche was. The honest kind where you throw your pearls for the few who get it and have a good laugh at the expense of the others.

Quote :

Quote:

And such suffocating women who decided everything for him, treating him like a child and an invalid.


Yes, because he was a child and an invalid, you moron!
[/quote]

Physically he may have been nitwit, not intellectually. He had intellectual independence and suffered these women trying to take all decisions for him.

Quote :

Quote:

He was a rare beauty.


Emasculated.

So manly he has men in the living world trying to overcome him, trying to fight him, while he's dead and gone. That's power.
It comes from courage and courage comes from total honesty with one's self.


Quote :


Quote:

One goes away from him feeling richer, feeling challenged, feeling inspired and grateful - whether one is herd or the other kind.


Especially if one is herd, I suppose.

You are free to suppose. Whoever prevented chattel from dreaming and thinking as they wished.


Quote :

Quote:

Isn't that why I am on this forum here - because there are writings by people here that leave me feeling enriched and indebted.


No, you feel your pussy tingling.

Do I? Can you feel it?
See what I mean, you have a sharp Neptune. You pick up subliminal stuff.
You found me out!! I'm here to impress men with my citations LOL
How I pretend to be intellectual!! how cheeky of me Wink

[/quote]
Do you compare the FICTIONAL character of Hannibal with Nietzsche?[/quote]

I was teasing Satyr. But more seriosuly, yea, they have many elements in common archetypically speaking. You could say, Hannibal was Nietzsche's Master type.

[/quote]
Quote:

Are you mad? Socrates was an ex-Spartan!!!


Ex, so he left Sparta or was made to leave...[/quote]

I meant in the sense, he could have been total spartan to the end, but he got sick of life and gave up and decided to die, no matter how Socrates judtifies it.


Quote :

Quote:

He claimed he was a disciple of Dionysos.


That shows his emasculation right there! Of course he never even dared to break free in a dionysian sense.

His Dionysian had Apollo subsumed, else he could not have managed being Dionysian and that's what his phil. is about.
And being a "disciple" simply means submitting yourself to a "discipline" - a Dionysian discipline. How much truth and honesty can you endure? Living life on those Disciplined terms.
One cannot command or have command over oneself, unless one obeys oneself first.
Ridiculing obedience and slavery as herd values is already giving into herd values. Obedience and submission can also have significance in the context of a Master moral.
When I describe him like this, there are times I wonder if its myself or him I describe; our paths are too similar. That's why I say how you see and interpret others ultimately only reveals you.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 11, 2013 12:27 pm

Quote :

Crowley. All the "seriousness" of introducing a new religion, a new way of life is him being a Satyr as much as Nietzsche was.

I think Hubbard exceeded both. Even though he was no poet or very good writer. He was more apollonian. A doer, a maker.

Quote :

His Dionysian had Apollo subsumed, else he could not have managed being Dionysian and that's what his phil. is about.

I think Satyr and others prove him wrong. He had not subsumed Apollo completely.

I haven't read Thomas Mann "Dr. Faustus". The protagonist is supposed to be a hybrid of Wagner and Nietzsche I guess. Thomas Mann was somebody who could pick up nuances and had read Nietzsche. Rüdiger Safranski's book on Nietzsche is also translated.

A quote, I noted down from Safranskis book:

Quote :

N., in a letter to his friend Overbeck of 1.June 1885, my translation:

My life now consists of of the wish, that all things would be different, than I understand them; and that somebody would make my "truths" unreliable (unbelievable) to myself.


So there is your task! To honor N. you have to overcome him. He didn't want followers himself.
My recommandation: L.Ron Hubbard.
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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 11, 2013 3:49 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Look for his passage on how he defines "The Great Health".

I know someone who took part in Thorwald Dethlefsen's ( a german Esoteric) Kawwana (the name of a cult he founded) rituals. Dethlefsen studied from Oskar Rudolf Schlag. His "sect" was gnostic, kabbalistic, but also with greek mythological influences. It was more a temporary project than a sect. But they did a "Perseus" Ritual (Chrysaor) too. To achieve greater health one has "to cut off Medusas head", without turning to stone. (I think I read it in a book by Angelika Koller on the Kawwana rituals.) This is the symbolism. (I am just assuming here, I don't know what Dethlefsen or Schlag actually meant and how the ritual went about.)

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Quote :

Medusa is presented by Freud as "the supreme talisman who provides the image of castration — associated in the child's mind with the discovery of maternal sexuality — and its denial."

The Medusa later became a symbol of Feminism.
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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 11, 2013 4:12 pm

The Question of male and female equilibrium is (see my first posting in this topic): do you place the triangle within the circle? or do you place the circle within the triangle?

Nietzsche placed the triangle within the circle.

Satyr places the circle within the triangle.
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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 11, 2013 9:25 pm

Hannibal Lecter is the first step towards overcoming man.
He is an example of a man, separating himself from mankind.

A new species...alone...seeking a mate.

Think of it...a rare Master...would be condemned, or blessed, to live a life of loneliness.
A reason why this type is not politically viable, unless he lowers himself to the level of a manimal and decides to be a hypocrite, a parasite...Plato's corrupted Philosopher King.

Such a creature would only seek sharing.

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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 12, 2013 1:26 pm

Laconian wrote:
The Question of male and female equilibrium is (see my first posting in this topic): do you place the triangle within the circle? or do you place the circle within the triangle?

Nietzsche placed the triangle within the circle.

Satyr places the circle within the triangle.

Can you expand on this. How do Nietzsche and Satyr differ regarding their understanding of masculinity?
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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 12, 2013 1:47 pm

perpetualburn wrote:

Can you expand on this. How do Nietzsche and Satyr differ regarding their understanding of masculinity?

Nietzsche leaned more towards the feminine. Satyr leans more towards the masculine. Of course I can just judge Satyr from his writing. Nietzsche loses himself in is writing. Satyr is laconic. Therefor systematic. Like the late Nietzsche, according to his sisters and her husbands compilation of WTP (Will to Power) was too. But N. can be quoted how he rejected all systematic thinkers and thinking. I could find a quote. I think it was regarding Schopenhauer and Kant.

So to your question. I don't think N. put masculinity as high as Satyr puts it. Satyrs essay "Feminization of Mankind" is re-actionary to something more recent. They're both children of their time, as we say in Germany. Nietzsche lived at the end of the enlightenment era. Today we are well into the modern era. N. has been made a part of pop-culture. That's why he needs to be overcome. Looked at new. I consider myself Nietzschean, as I would like him to be protected against misuse for example for antisemitism.

Satyr of course hasn't been the first intellectual post Nietzsche, who is more masculine. I think of Freud as the first more masculine thinker post N.. I'd rather see a Freud criticism on here (Lacan, Deleuze/Guattari, Alice Miller), than the old Nietzsche debates.

____________

My question: was N. referring to Aryanism (in WTP), as a race? Of course genes weren't known then. Or as a meme? To a Biology or to an ideal? Was he a racialist? Or only an idealist?
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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 12, 2013 5:56 pm

Quote :

Quote:

His Dionysian had Apollo subsumed, else he could not have managed being Dionysian and that's what his phil. is about.


I think Satyr and others prove him wrong. He had not subsumed Apollo completely.

Twerp, stop inserting words; who said anything about "completely".


Quote :

I haven't read Thomas Mann "Dr. Faustus". The protagonist is supposed to be a hybrid of Wagner and Nietzsche I guess. Thomas Mann was somebody who could pick up nuances and had read Nietzsche. Rüdiger Safranski's book on Nietzsche is also translated.

I don't like Mann. I only recall that much, so no comment. Safranski, etc. - I don't read second hand sources to understand N.
"What N. really said" and such bogus titles don't interest me.


Quote :

A quote, I noted down from Safranskis book:

Quote:

N., in a letter to his friend Overbeck of 1.June 1885, my translation:

My life now consists of of the wish, that all things would be different, than I understand them; and that somebody would make my "truths" unreliable (unbelievable) to myself.


So there is your task! To honor N. you have to overcome him. He didn't want followers himself.


You didn't have to go to all that trouble. N. explicitly says he doesn't want any disciples in WTP, Zarathustra, Ecce Homo,...
You don't get it, do you? I repeat, Overcoming is not like a horse that jumps above an obstacle and leaves it behind and does away with it. You stand Over what keeps on coming again and again.
“Great health - a health that one not only has but constantly acquires and must acquire, because one again and again relinquishes it, must relinquish it!” [Joyful Wisdom, Colli M, ed. KSA 2.1988]

Just because you keep on engaging with idiots doesn't make you an Idol-worshipper of Idiots, does it?! Its a modern mentality that thinks you read something once, find a flaw, argue against it, better it in some way and think that's the end of it and you've overcome it. A good book is always Alive, because its wisdom/values lend themselves to a different interpretation, every diff. day because the person who encounters it today is not the same as who he was yesterday. One tries to exhaust and Over come a book by engaging with it; doesn't make one an idol-worshipper.
Why is Plato still read when he's been Overcome by Nietzsche? Why?
Good health means having a Joyous distrust; you engage with joy because you love wrestling with thoughts that don't settle down and keep bubbling up -  if this joy is misunderstood as "worshipping" a guru, an idol... who can explain any more? Great health is having Distrust, joyfully.
If I call myself a Nietzschean or a Hyperborean disciple, I joyously engage in a certain discipline. And when you are one with pride, then you want to deal with the best. That's how the chain goes. N. was Overcoming Schopenhauer ever since discovering his mentor. Everytime N. mentions WTP, he's overcoming Schopenhauer again and again. You'll find N. dealing with very few than him, and the Greeks because they are the best. Its only a few passing lines and passages he devotes directly to Hegel, Kant, etc. Did this mean N. was an idol-worshipper of Schopenhauer or that he Overcame Schopenhauer just because he offered a revaluation of values?
I, likewise.
Its laughable to simply say, 'yea, he was wrong here, I've overcome him'!
And whoever said only N. should be read? Not I. Different people have their own kinds of "enemies"; their own selectivity. I like N. among a few others too I cherish.

Quote :
My recommandation: L.Ron Hubbard.

Smells bad. Trash bin.
Same reason I don't touch Freud. He smells foul.


Quote :

Quote:

Medusa is presented by Freud as "the supreme talisman who provides the image of castration — associated in the child's mind with the discovery of maternal sexuality — and its denial."


The Medusa later became a symbol of Feminism.

There's a nice book by Klossowski - N. and the Vicious Circle, explains the ER through the figure of the Medusa.
Scribd might have it.

Quote :


The Question of male and female equilibrium is (see my first posting in this topic): do you place the triangle within the circle? or do you place the circle within the triangle?

Nietzsche placed the triangle within the circle.

Satyr places the circle within the triangle.

First off, I even disagree with you denoting circle with the feminine and the triangle with the masculine. These are abstract relative symbols meant only as tools. For the Hindus, the square represents order and the masculine and the triangle in the shape of the "yoni" or the female womb/reproductive part is therefore feminine.
I don't care for these signs as permanent allusions or metaphors to more flowing thoughts.

Satyr philosophizes from the perspective of Self - he's Apollonian; I see from the p.o.v. of Entropy, the Dionysian.

Now there are many kinds of Dionysian.

From the entropic view, the Apollonian guards and Resists the Self from and against disorder - chaos -  nature - the feminine in the sense it is max. raw material available for use, exploitation, to be imposed upon. It is the pure Dionysian - growth, swelling, flowing. Life is a woman, feminine. The self is masculine.
From the entropic view, the Apollo-affirmative-Dionysian grows and Expands the Self not by "dissolving away" into disorder, self-fragmentation, but by "appropriating within" the chaos it confronts; it binds or extra-natures and nurtures the fragmented self.

So within the same individual, you have two Masculine drives, one trying to Resist the Dionysian and Create Order - the Apollonian drive - which in excess can turn into a  "frozen" static absolute Thingness, God. Extreme Masc.
The other Masculine drive within the same individual, tries to Destroy, swell, overflow, and Expand the Apollonian "not necessarily" into a more richer, powerful Self - which in excess can turn into a "frenzy", flux of absolute Nothingness, Void. Extreme Fem.

So for me, from an entropic view, it becomes a question of how much chaos Can you appropriate, how much dissonance can you allow ... how much you can Balance is a sign of Masculinity. Feminity overwhelms.

The Dionysian need not be the Feminine Nothingness [Void], but it can also signify  a Masculine Nothingness - Brahman - the perspectival site of Tension, Tense Order from maximum connectivity, linking max. angles, max. dissonance. Balancing is masculinity, as Euripides' Bacchus demonstrates to Pentheus.

When I ask how much Nature can I Affirm or in-corpo-rate, how much Excess can I possess within me, I see the Apollo-subsumed-Dionysian as a Masculine drive. This is why N. characterizes the Dionysian drive to self-destruction as a No from a "Yea-saying", meaning the Self is always affirmed in the affirmation of Nature, It is a double affirmation. Hence in Zarathustra is introduced the figure of Dionysos-Ariadne and their wedding.
The Affirmative Dionysian stance cannot work without the Apollonian, which is why, he points out, the Greeks called the Greco-Asian orgiastic cults as Barbaric in their violent destruction and sex frenzy, where everything goes loose. He distinguishes the Titanic as this kind of violent anarchic Dionysian, who tore the child apart and was punished by Zeus, different from another kind of Dionysian the Greeks managed to incorporate with the help of the Olympic Apollo. And thus was a mutual agonistic hand-shake established bet. Apollo and Dionysos, the two brothers. Dionysos prevents Apollo from static abstraction, and Apollo prevents Dionysos from excess destruction.

Which is why Architecture to N. represents the most static, frozen, near-abs. Apollonian form... and Music, represents the most dynamic, fluid, maximal near-representation of dissonance/chaos we can get to "meaningfully", or humans have managed to get to meaningfully. Music mirrors the most closest Dionysian will of Nature in ourselves to meaningfully self-reflect, experience the "infinity" of chaos.

So basically, while Satyr works from two end points Order/Disorder that allow maximum clarity, max. pathos of Distance, Duration of life, Resistance - "how much entropy can I endure?, how much Self can I affirm?", I work from the midst of things. The middle is the edge where two things are held together-apart at their max. incommensurability like the dividing line in a book holding together-apart two pages at their extreme edges. The edge becomes a middle, a site of Tense Order, where it is Both this page and that page...  a pathos of Amor, Intensity of life, Appropriation - "how much entropy can I exploit, how much Entropy can I affirm?".
The Apollo-affirmative Dionysian is Both self And nature; it is a double affirmation.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 12, 2013 6:02 pm

Satyr wrote:
Hannibal Lecter is the first step towards overcoming man.
He is an example of a man, separating himself from mankind.

A new species...alone...seeking a mate.

Think of it...a rare Master...would be condemned, or blessed, to live a life of loneliness.
A reason why this type is not politically viable, unless he lowers himself to the level of a manimal and decides to be a hypocrite, a parasite...Plato's corrupted Philosopher King.

Such a creature would only seek sharing.

The movie tries to explain his cannibalistic venting as a Reaction to what happened to his sister; the young Hannibal is taunted as also having partaken in his sister's flesh - does that have some incestual significance? The anguish of the Byronic hero 'Manfred' alludes to an incestual relation with his dead sister.

So, the movie atleast does not make a case for his separating out directly because of his fine tastes, but as a reaction. You'll have to excuse if I haven't recalled the facts correctly.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 12, 2013 7:19 pm

Lyssa wrote:

I don't like Mann. I only recall that much, so no comment. Safranski, etc. - I don't read second hand sources to understand N.
"What N. really said" and such bogus titles don't interest me.

Safranski is well received amongst scholars over here for his biographic books on Goethe, Heidegger, Nietzsche. I don't "like" Thomas Mann either. He is difficult. But it's not always about what one likes in life.

Quote :

You didn't have to go to all that trouble. N. explicitly says he doesn't want any disciples in WTP, Zarathustra, Ecce Homo,...
You don't get it, do you? I repeat, Overcoming is not like a horse that jumps above an obstacle and leaves it behind and does away with it. You stand Over what keeps on coming again and again.

I think you can overcome certain thinkers. By being more specific. Being more systematic, less verbose. Combining ideas, dropping others. Michel Houellebecq seems like a more contemporary Nietzschean to me.

Quote :

“Great health - a health that one not only has but constantly acquires and must acquire, because one again and again relinquishes it, must relinquish it!” [Joyful Wisdom, Colli M, ed. KSA 2.1988]

Nice poetry. The Medusa/Perseus/Freud example has more truth to me.

Quote :

Just because you keep on engaging with idiots doesn't make you an Idol-worshipper of Idiots, does it?!

Yes, it does. I am a humanist.

Quote :

ts a modern mentality that thinks you read something once, find a flaw, argue against it, better it in some way and think that's the end of it and you've overcome it. A good book is always Alive, because its wisdom/values lend themselves to a different interpretation, every diff. day because the person who encounters it today is not the same as who he was yesterday. One tries to exhaust and Over come a book by engaging with it; doesn't make one an idol-worshipper.

WHAT IS YOUR CRITICISM WITH NIETZSCHE?

Quote :

Why is Plato still read when he's been Overcome by Nietzsche? Why?

He is more popular.

Quote :

If I call myself a Nietzschean or a Hyperborean disciple, I joyously engage in a certain discipline.

Why are you so keen on putting labels on yourself and others?

Quote :

And when you are one with pride, then you want to deal with the best. That's how the chain goes. N. was Overcoming Schopenhauer ever since discovering his mentor. Everytime N. mentions WTP, he's overcoming Schopenhauer again and again. You'll find N. dealing with very few than him, and the Greeks because they are the best. Its only a few passing lines and passages he devotes directly to Hegel, Kant, etc. Did this mean N. was an idol-worshipper of Schopenhauer or that he Overcame Schopenhauer just because he offered a revaluation of values?

You have to be in love with a thing/person, to overcome it.

Quote :

I, likewise.
Its laughable to simply say, 'yea, he was wrong here, I've overcome him'!
And whoever said only N. should be read? Not I. Different people have their own kinds of "enemies"; their own selectivity. I like N. among a few others too I cherish.

My love for Nietzsche just isn't there anymore. He is too unlike me. I do not love him anymore.

Quote :

Smells bad. Trash bin.
Same reason I don't touch Freud. He smells foul.

Hubbard was an enemy of Freud.

You like to psychoanalyze people, too, a lot. He is masculine. They both are. Nietzsche compared to these two is very feminine. So if you wish to learn about masculinity you have to read Freud at least. (I know Hubbard has a bad reputation.)

Quote :

There's a nice book by Klossowski - N. and the Vicious Circle, explains the ER through the figure of the Medusa.
Scribd might have it.

And what is your opinion on it, as a woman?
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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptySun Jan 13, 2013 5:51 am

Nietzsche on his sister and mother:

Quote :

A couple of months before his collapse he declared in Ecce Homo (in a passage that only narrowly survived Elisabeth’s attempts to suppress it): ‘When I look for my profoundest opposite, the incalculable pettiness of my instincts, I always find my mother and my sister – to be related to such canaille would be blasphemy against my divinity . . . I confess that the deepest objection to the “eternal recurrence”, my real idea from the abyss, is always my mother and my sister.’

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____________

Nietzsche on Judaism:

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This is in line with what Satyr said earlier. He had jewish friends. So he wasn't racist. He saw them as a necessary counterpart.
In the text, a quote from the Anti-Christ (1888):

Quote :

The Jews are the most remarkable nation of world history because, faced with the question of being or not being, they preferred ... being at any price: the price they had to pay was the radical falsification of all nature, all naturalness, all reality, the entire inner world as well as the outer. ... Considered psychologically, the Jewish nation is a nation of the toughest vital energy which ... took the side of all décadence instincts—not as being dominated by them but because it divined in them a power by means of which one can prevail against ‘the world.’ The Jews are the counterparts of décadents: they have been compelled to act as décadents to the point of illusion.... [T]his kind of man has a life-interest in making mankind sick, and in inverting the concepts of ‘good’ and ‘evil,’ ‘true’ and ‘false’ in a mortally dangerous and world-maligning sense. (sec. 24)

Didn't he also side with "Being", rather than "Not Being"? His Yea-Sayer? So there was a part of Judaism he admired. He wasn't a Darwinist either.

___________

Nietzsche on Darwin:

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Quote :

Nietzsche vs Darwin

Nietzsche wrote not long after Darwin. Millions of years had long been regarded as ‘fact’, and evolution was hugely popular among the intelligentsia, of whom some were still debating its mechanism. An atheist must, by definition, believe in ‘evolution’—a world that made itself—regardless of how such transformations were achieved. It is thus not surprising to see the atheist Nietzsche writing in Thus Spake Zarathustra: “You [mankind] have made your way from worm to human, and much in you is still worm. Once you were apes, and even now the human being is still more of an ape than any ape is.”9

Yet it surprises many that he vehemently opposed Darwin’s ideas as to the ‘how’ of evolution, preferring his own notion of what he called “the will to power”.

Nietzsche said Darwin was wrong in four fundamental aspects of his theory.
1. Small changes could not produce new organs.

He realized that a partly formed organ was of no survival value, and wrote:

“Against Darwinism.—The utility of an organ does not explain its origin; on the contrary! For most of the time during which a property is forming it does not preserve the individual and is of no use to him, least of all in the struggle with external circumstances and enemies.”10

Nietzsche claimed that in real life the weak survive rather than the strong. He wrote:
2. The weak outlast the strong.

“Anti-Darwin.—As regards the celebrated ‘struggle for life’, … where there is struggle it is a struggle for power … its outcome is the reverse of that desired by the school of Darwin … the weaker dominate the strong again and again—the reason being they are the great majority, and they are also cleverer. … Darwin forgot the mind.”11

3. Sexual selection not normal.

Nietzsche wrote of Darwin’s notion:

“Anti-Darwin … We almost always see males and females take advantage of any chance encounter, exhibiting no selectivity whatsoever.”12

4. Transitional forms absent.

Nietzsche wrote:

“There are no transitional forms. … Primitive creatures are said to be the ancestors of those now existing. But a look at the fauna and flora of the Tertiary merely permits us to think of an as yet unexplored country that harbors types that do not exist elsewhere, while those existing elsewhere are missing.”12 [“Tertiary” refers to one of the divisions of the ‘geologic column’, ‘dated’ after the dinosaur extinction, with its implied acceptance of vast ages of pre-human history.]

Nietzsche then gave us another lengthy section, again headed Anti-Darwin:

“Anti-Darwin.—What surprises me most when I survey the broad destinies of man is that I always see before me the opposite of that which Darwin and his school see or want to see today: selection in favor of the stronger, better-constituted, and the progress of the species. Precisely the opposite is palpable … I incline to the prejudice that the school of Darwin has been deluded everywhere … .

“That will to power in which I recognize the ultimate ground and character of all change provides us with the reason why selection is not in favor of the exceptions and lucky strokes: the strongest and most fortunate are weak when opposed by organized herd instincts, by the timidity of the weak, by the vast majority.”13

Not surprisingly, then, in his autobiography, Ecce Homo,14 Nietzsche describes as “oxen” those scholars who think that his Superhuman is a product of Darwinian evolution.15


I confirm the WTP quotes.
____________


Freud on Medusas Head:

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Scientology Anti Psychiatry Documentary:

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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptySun Jan 13, 2013 7:14 am

I never realized Nietzsche was such a nihilist.

Of course half an eye is better than no eye at all. Even a primitive lens which only dimly perceives light and dark confers a survival advantage. A stump instead of a fully evolved leg would allow a creature that slithers on its belly to move just that little bit faster than one with no stump at all.

What is not clear to me though is how changes in an organism are carried into the general population if they only occur in one creature, as interbreeding would wipe them out. I think there must be some potential for the change in an organism's DNA, so that it occurs in several individuals, perhaps whole populations, as this would make more sense than just some 'random' event in an isolated individual.

This way the changes could only ever be within the context of the organism's existing DNA structure, rooting its future evolution within its physical past.

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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptySun Jan 13, 2013 8:28 am

[quote="Laconian"]Nietzsche on his sister and mother:

Quote :

A couple of months before his collapse he declared in Ecce Homo (in a passage that only narrowly survived Elisabeth’s attempts to suppress it): ‘When I look for my profoundest opposite, the incalculable pettiness of my instincts, I always find my mother and my sister – to be related to such canaille would be blasphemy against my divinity . . . I confess that the deepest objection to the “eternal recurrence”, my real idea from the abyss, is always my mother and my sister.’

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Such Bull. And all for what? To prove what? I have said much worse things about people I care about, how ridiculous you are. Tells me, how much you understand relationships, Fool!

A letter from his last year to his sister:

"Nice, January 25, 1888.
MY DEAR OLD LAMA:
It was with great pleasure that I read my brother-in-law's pæan on his "incomparable wife." I am proud of having brought you up—only very few women would have overcome those extraordinary difficulties with such bravery and unassuming cheerfulness. But please let us have a little less modesty! Do not forget that the herd insists on having picturesque people—that is to say, people who draw pictures of their gifts, aspirations, and successes in such bold and obtrusive strokes that they can be grasped even by the dullest eyes. The herd honours everything in the nature of a pose, any solemn attitude,—things from which we two are averse. Only subtle spirits understand the shame of the noble mind, that conceals its highest and its best beneath a plain surface. I feel certain that among all those people over there, only a few have any idea with what little regard for yourself and with what passionate resolution you try to realize your ideals. The only question I ask myself is—are these ideals worthy of so much self-sacrifice? I very much fear you will yet have to overcome many bitter disappointments in your life. Ultimately you will be come a sceptical old woman—without having lost your bravery; and you will be well suited to your sceptical brother. How we shall laugh then over the idealism of our youth—possibly with tears.
Now let me tell you a little experience I have had. As I was taking my usual walk yesterday, I suddenly heard some one talking and laughing heartily along a side path (it sounded almost as if it might have been you); and when this some one appeared before me, it turned out to be a charming brown-eyed girl, whose soft gaze, as she surveyed me, reminded me of a roe. Then, lonely philosopher though I am, my heart grew quite warm—I thought of your marriage schemes, and for the whole of the rest of the walk I could not help thinking of the charming young girl. Certainly it would do me good to have something so graceful about me—but would it do her good? Would my views not make her unhappy, and would it not break my heart (provided that I loved her) to make such a delightful creature suffer? No, let us not speak of marrying!
But what you were thinking of was rather a good comrade [ . . . ]. Do you really think that an emancipated woman of this sort, with all her femininity vanished, could be a good comrade, or could be tolerable as a wife at all? You forget that, in spite of my bad eyesight, I have a very highly developed sense of beauty; and this, quite apart from the fact that such embittered women are repugnant to me and spoil my spirits and my whole atmosphere. Much intellect in a woman amounts to very little as far as I am concerned, for this so-called intellect, by which only the most superficial men are deceived, is nothing more than the most absurd pretentiousness. There is nothing more tiring than such an intellectual goose, who does not even know how tedious she is. Think of Frau O.! But in this respect I must admit that Fraulein X. is incomparably more pleasant—but, nevertheless! You think that love would change her; but I do not believe in any such change through "love." Besides, you have not seen her for many years it is obvious that she must have changed in the direction of ugliness and loss of womanliness. Believe me, if you were to see her now—at her very appearance the thought of love and marriage would strike you, as it does me, as absurd. You can take my word for it, that for men like me, a marriage after the type of Goethe's would be the best of all—that is to say, a marriage with a good housekeeper! But even this idea is repellent to me. A young and cheerful daughter to whom I would be an object of reverence would be much more to the point. The best of all, however, would be to have my good old Lama again. For a philosopher, a sister is an excellent philanthropic institution, particularly when she is bright, brave, and loving (no old vinegar flask like G. Keller's[100] sister), but as a rule one only recognizes such truths when it is too late.
Well, this has been a nice chat on marriage with the Lama. With many hearty wishes and greetings to you and your Bernhard,
Your devoted F."


Quote :

Nietzsche on Judaism:

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This is in line with what Satyr said earlier. He had jewish friends. So he wasn't racist. He saw them as a necessary counterpart.

And where did I say he was an anti-semite, twerp? N. was no racist; he was a racialist. His Dionysian path meant making a home, an affirmative place for Everything in His Hierarchy of Pro-Aryan values.
Yes, the jew had a place, an order of rank in an Aryan hierrachy.



Quote :
He realized that a partly formed organ was of no survival value, and wrote:

“Against Darwinism.—The utility of an organ does not explain its origin; on the contrary! For most of the time during which a property is forming it does not preserve the individual and is of no use to him, least of all in the struggle with external circumstances and enemies.”10

Twerp, that's not what he said - "that an organ had no survival value". You mislead others here with your deficient understanding. He said an organ does not evolve with a telos, with a will to self-preservation", but everything in the organic world struggles to grow, flourish, expand, approp. others in its way; it doesn't seek self-preservation as an ends in itself. An organ was not meant to be for its own sake; the underlying substratum of all things is power.


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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptySun Jan 13, 2013 8:28 am

Laconian wrote:


Safranski is well received amongst scholars over here for his biographic books on Goethe, Heidegger, Nietzsche.

The popular representations are always well-received.

Quote :
I don't "like" Thomas Mann either. He is difficult. But it's not always about what one likes in life.

I do not like him not because he is difficult, but I remember him being too apologetic. Still in the good/evil.
And to me, it is about what I like.- I do not become poorer for not having read Mann!

Quote :

I think you can overcome certain thinkers. By being more specific. Being more systematic, less verbose. Combining ideas, dropping others. Michel Houellebecq seems like a more contemporary Nietzschean to me.

Yes, this is the modern meaning of Overcoming. You deal with it and then you are done with it. I'm old-fashioned.

Quote :

Quote :

Just because you keep on engaging with idiots doesn't make you an Idol-worshipper of Idiots, does it?!

Yes, it does. I am a humanist.

So you are Today...
So, you are saying as per the prv. example, Satyr is an Idiot-worshipper becaue he deals with the same idiots and their same problems again and again?


Quote :

WHAT IS YOUR CRITICISM WITH NIETZSCHE?

Your bolding seems to insinuate that I have ignored your supposedly asking me the same in the past [which you've not]. Lets settle that first.

Quote :

Quote :

Why is Plato still read when he's been Overcome by Nietzsche? Why?

He is more popular.

Exactly my point. So just because N.'s work is out, doesn't mean he has Overcome Plato. The same dirt will wash over the world like the tides again and again, and one has to deal with this same rubbish again and again. This is Over the coming of it.


Quote :

Quote :

If I call myself a Nietzschean or a Hyperborean disciple, I joyously engage in a certain discipline.

Why are you so keen on putting labels on yourself and others?

Did I or did I not say "If"?

Quote :


You have to be in love with a thing/person, to overcome it.

Affirming need not always be about loving, it can also be about Aversion and Disgust.
This is Zarathustra.

Quote :

My love for Nietzsche just isn't there anymore. He is too unlike me. I do not love him anymore.

Indeed. He is unlike you. And that's good news to me.


Quote :

Hubbard was an enemy of Freud.

He is masculine. They both are. Nietzsche compared to these two is very feminine. So if you wish to learn about masculinity you have to read Freud at least. (I know Hubbard has a bad reputation.)

Hubbard, Freud, etc. all these are the same to me. Not of my world.
And N. to me is hardly feminine. Freud appears like a sissy with all his little boy theories of phobia and castration anxieties... silly. He infected the whole world with his pollution.
A real Male does not fear, does not abhor the Feminine although it may start there.
The Dionysian is about affirming the opposite within.

Quote :
You like to psychoanalyze people, too, a lot.

Why, do you feel exposed...?
No, I just observe, and I say it as I see it.
You could say I'm actually psychoanalyzing myself - how obnoxious, uncouth, rude, nonchalant, can I get, how much discomfort can I take with my own behaviour... its a skin I'm playing with for a while, for a promise I've made and I intend to keep.
Life is a stage and all the world is a play and I'm a theatre-artist.

Quote :

Quote :

There's a nice book by Klossowski - N. and the Vicious Circle, explains the ER through the figure of the Medusa.
Scribd might have it.

And what is your opinion on it, as a woman?
[/quote]

Very simple, very un-Freudian.
Medusa represents the excess of nature, the abysmal self within one - the fascinating beauty as well the tremendous monstrosity. One cannot transgress the nature inside without facing the consequences of it out and vice-versa. It is a confrontation with the Self, where looking too deeply inside you, can overwhelm you into a stupor, into a paralysis - like the nightmare of the eternally recurring life fills you with dread of the same self as well as beauty of an immortal self. The looking into a mirror to eventually decapitate the head [another ego growing or you could call it the encountering with your recurrent self that gives you that deja-vu feeling...] signifies it takes Art, a Dionysian laughter to break the fetter of the Medusa.
"Life can only justified as an aesthetic phenomenon." - N.
Noted this from an online source somewhere:

"The confrontation with Medusa marks an epiphany; in this moment the observer comes to know himself, he is forced to introspection. The misshapen creature staring at him has an alienating impact on him, at first sight because of their completely different looks. However, this is deceptive. Introspection leads, after all, to the discovery and recognition of the self. One realises that one is not the god one thought oneself to be, but rather a monster that - above all - cannot escape the process of transience. In Medusa one recognises oneself and one's own mortality... Perseus' assignment is a game of reflections, a game of seeing and not seeing, a game of seeing or being seen."

When one affirms the monstrous abyss within, the severed ego is naturalized back with oneself and raised as an apotropaic weapon.
To me, the Medusa-complex ultimately says, Joy is more primal and more ancient than Pain.


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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptySun Jan 13, 2013 11:09 am

Lyssa wrote:

You mislead others here with your deficient understanding.

I am not misleading anyone, since I am only quoting. The inked site quotes from WTP. Section 647.

I also stumpled upon sections 682,683,684,685 in my exemplar of WTP with excessive Darwin citicism.
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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptySun Jan 13, 2013 11:10 am

Recidivist wrote:
I never realized Nietzsche was such a nihilist.

And he is the father of the New Right, whichever way you put it. That's why I opened a topic on the New Right.
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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptySun Jan 13, 2013 11:12 am

Laconian wrote:
Lyssa wrote:

You mislead others here with your deficient understanding.

I am not misleading anyone, since I am only quoting. The inked site quotes from WTP. Section 647.

I also stumpled upon sections 682,683,684,685 in my exemplar of WTP with excessive Darwin citicism.

"an organ had no survival value" are not His words, they are yours.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptySun Jan 13, 2013 11:23 am

Lyssa wrote:

And to me, it is about what I like.

Cyndi Lauper - Girl just wanna have fun

[/quote]

Quote :

- I do not become poorer for not having read Mann!

And life is all about abundance, right?

Quote :

Yes, this is the modern meaning of Overcoming. You deal with it and then you are done with it. I'm old-fashioned.

And how does the old-fashioned way of overcoming work?

Quote :

So you are Today...

Boys want to have a little fun, too!

Quote :

So, you are saying as per the prv. example, Satyr is an Idiot-worshipper becaue he deals with the same idiots and their same problems again and again?

No, he doesn't.

Quote :

Quote :

WHAT IS YOUR CRITICISM WITH NIETZSCHE?

Your bolding seems to insinuate that I have ignored your supposedly asking me the same in the past [which you've not]. Lets settle that first.

Confirmed. Proceed.

Quote :

Exactly my point. So just because N.'s work is out, doesn't mean he has Overcome Plato. The same dirt will wash over the world like the tides again and again, and one has to deal with this same rubbish again and again. This is Over the coming of it.

So you believe in re-inacarnation?

Quote :

Hubbard, Freud, etc. all these are the same to me. Not of my world.
And N. to me is hardly feminine. Freud appears like a sissy with all his little boy theories of phobia and castration anxieties... silly. He infected the whole world with his pollution.
A real Male does not fear, does not abhor the Feminine although it may start there.
The Dionysian is about affirming the opposite within.

Life is resistance to entropy. N. would have lived longer, been more healthy, if he hadn't fallen for Dionysos so easily.
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PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptySun Jan 13, 2013 11:28 am

Lyssa wrote:
Laconian wrote:
Lyssa wrote:

You mislead others here with your deficient understanding.

I am not misleading anyone, since I am only quoting. The inked site quotes from WTP. Section 647.

I also stumpled upon sections 682,683,684,685 in my exemplar of WTP with excessive Darwin citicism.

"an organ had no survival value" are not His words, they are yours.

These are the words from the site I quoted, not mine. So I shouldn't have quoted them. And I trust you, if you say they aren't what Nietzsche said.

The cited quotes on that site from WTP are correct though! For anybody reading this (this is highly charged politics here, I understand), who doesn't have a copy of the book.


Last edited by Laconian on Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lyssa
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Esotericism 101 - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Esotericism 101 Esotericism 101 - Page 2 EmptyMon Jan 14, 2013 4:31 pm

Quote :
Cyndi Lauper - Girl just wanna have fun

ha

What makes you think I'm a girl, twerp? Just because my profile says so? Wink
But its true; only the idea of "fun" differs...


Quote :

- I do not become poorer for not having read Mann!


And life is all about abundance, right?

Because life is all about abundance, life is all about Discrimination and Selectivity. Mann does not make it to me!


Quote :

And how does the old-fashioned way of overcoming work?

Like a lover...



If life spurns you, you Overcome it by saying,
Life? Once More! You'll do it again...

You never do away with the one you're always trying to do away with; you don't want to because the idea that two things, two beings can be so easily reconciled [either for being too similar to you or for being so different] enrages you. Easy Reconciliations of either sort hurt your pride. So you never overcome, leave anyone behind you forever, you don't snap the link, its having endurance for protracted passions; you always keep Over the coming of them...

Friends too similar become enemies and enemies become friends for keeping you alert and in form, sharing a similar battle-ground, a similar destiny and this friendly similarity turns them into enemies again... they turn over and over the same way and so you have to keep on overcoming them again and again... Living well is about Loving well. Old-fashioned means being rom-Antique. ;

Quote :

Quote:

So you are Today...


Boys want to have a little fun, too!

Yes, why not. You've been working so hard. Anyone redfining Philosophy as self-therapeutic psychiatry deserves some time off!

Quote :

Quote:

So, you are saying as per the prv. example, Satyr is an Idiot-worshipper becaue he deals with the same idiots and their same problems again and again?


No, he doesn't.

Then you show some dim hope for grasping what overcoming means.


Quote :


Quote:

Quote:

WHAT IS YOUR CRITICISM WITH NIETZSCHE?


Your bolding seems to insinuate that I have ignored your supposedly asking me the same in the past [which you've not]. Lets settle that first.


Confirmed. Proceed.

Confirmed? You made a wrong insinuation at me.
Say sorry.

If you say sorry to hear my answer, I'll turn it into a case-study, a question of what makes men stake their pride for something they are uncertain of attaining - I might not tell you even after you say sorry. Its a risk you might have to take. But if you take the risk, it means the outcome doesn't matter to you, you feel no loss, then it must mean that you don't care enough, suffer your questions enough to deserve my answer. So why would I share?
And if you take the risk because you trust me and you might feel a great loss if I didn't give you the answer, then you are gullible and I don't suffer fools; that would be beneath me. So why would I share?
If you say sorry genuinely, no longer needing my answer, there's no need to give then.
If you don't say sorry, and accused me of being a faker, then why would I bother with a man who's already distemepered me with his baseless insinuation? Wink

mmm...

How does it make you Feel?...

my answer to your question is in my answer.

[would you take my word for it? LOL... ]

Now, no matter how/if you respond, you are going to expose yourself to me...

What does a Man do?

What should a Man do?

Do you understand Overcoming?


Quote :

Quote:

Exactly my point. So just because N.'s work is out, doesn't mean he has Overcome Plato. The same dirt will wash over the world like the tides again and again, and one has to deal with this same rubbish again and again. This is Over the coming of it.


So you believe in re-inacarnation?

No, you silly. That's not what I'm saying.
Would you send your father or mother away to some asylum just because you have 'overcome' their 'stupidity', their 'backwardness' because you are intelligent now in the uptodate information world; would you be done away with them?
Would you have overcome your retired father and send him to an old age home just because you are earning now and have all the money you need? Would you leave him behind in your "progress"?
That's one side. On the other side,
Even if they have hurt you, they humiliate you, they use and abuse you, they misunderstand you, they don't acknowledge you, and you become worth-less and broken to them, as long as they Affirm You in their very hate, in their disgust of you, you take pride in your duty in returning that affirmation of theirs, by affirming them. You bestow honour on Yourself in your enemies. You never wash your hands clean of anyone. How much you can afford to Overcome that way depends from man to man.

Overcoming means suffering, confronting, delighting, in what you've already done away with, and that keeps coming at you, or you go to it. Remember, Ideas cannot be Destroyed. They can only be Pushed and kept away temporarily, placed beneath or beside or behind other ideas... To Overcome is to Affirm their Resurgence again and again... by standing Over their coming. To Will and take delight in their coming again and again...

Philosophy is not for everybody.
Those who just want to get by in the world... - this is not It.


Quote :

Life is resistance to entropy. N. would have lived longer, been more healthy, if he hadn't fallen for Dionysos so easily.

Life is both entropy and its resistance to it and its resistance to its resistance ad.inf. It is agon.
He was already mad since his childhood.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*
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