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 Are you a "Grown Wounded Child" (GWC)?

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PostSubject: Are you a "Grown Wounded Child" (GWC)? Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:34 pm






I've been watching his videos for some time and
he often mentions "Grown Wounded Children".


What do you think about it?

Do you agree with his theory?
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PostSubject: Re: Are you a "Grown Wounded Child" (GWC)? Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:22 pm

Let me get into this thing.
The idea of a “false self” must be understood within the context of a “true self,” which is bullshit of one does not define it.
A “true self” is simply an inherited self.

It is another term describing the past.

I’ve said in the past that the “self,” the ego, an identity, is the sum of the past. This past is not only your experiential past but also your inherited, determined, past.
The moment you are born you become the manifestation of this past (inter)acting with the ongoing reality. If you have children you pass on this “personal” experience, as an add-on to your children.
But there is also the method of memes.

You can pass-on your experiences to others, who do not share in your past, entirely, as ideas.

This is where memes take over from genes. In losing a more personal touch they gain a universality which can impregnate any mind with concepts.
The mind must be receptive, of course, just as a female must be receptive to fertilization…in other words it must be in need, in relation to the one impregnating it.
Here the master/slave relationship take-on the male/female one.
Master/Slave is only a social adaptation of the biological Male/Female relationship.

To be dominated or impregnated or enlightened or taught is to be convinced.
Conviction is how the mind experiences its fertilization by a meme, an idea, an ideal.
Here we also find the Hellenic relationship of teacher with student, which has distinct homoerotic sensations involved, just as with the relationship of father with son, or mother with daughter.
The son, in order to mature and become a man must first endure the influence, the penetration, the teachings of his father, or the mentor or the teacher.

The boy, to become a man, must be impregnated, mimetically. Only then does he become the bearer of an idea(l) he can transmit, impregnate, into others. The road towards manhood lies in being female: adolescent, simple, instinctual, shallow, childish.
The biological male who is prevented from maturing remains effete…he remains feminine.
This is what feminization is all about: stagnating masculinity so that it never matures and it never becomes problematic, disruptive, challenging.

To Know Thyself is to be in contact, to be attached to your entire past; not only the flattering, “positive” aspects of your past but the entirety of it; not only to know it, theoretically, but to understand and to accept it on an emotional level.
This is what this guy calls “true self,” or, at least, alludes to it.

“Wounded,” for him, is the one who has been detached from his/her past.
It is normal that such a one would find commonality with someone who is like him: lost.
To be “lost” is to be detached, ignorant, of who and what you are…good and bad.
“Wounds” for him are the inevitable realizations derived from a sudden reconnection to a world that just does not give a shit about you or your emotions or your hopes or your casual dismissals.

When a child has been sheltered, not allowed to mature…retarded in its growth, it cannot cope with any contact with reality “Guilt” is a feeling derived from not
meeting an ideal.
If the ideal is social then one feels ashamed, guilty, embarrassed, about not meeting a social ideal.

If one does not care for social ideals and is only interested in personal ones, or alternative ones, then (s)he judges himself accordingly.

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PostSubject: Re: Are you a "Grown Wounded Child" (GWC)? Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:29 pm

His ideas are just an expansion of self-help psychology. All of what he mentions are symptoms of not knowing yourself. His ideas are useful to the damaged soul, but beyond that, they are not groundbreaking. Still, If I would have come across him years ago I would have found him helpful. There are many of these self-help gurus in existence today; They can be found on youtube, various sites/blogs and have published many books. All of them lead you to the same place which is equilibrium. When you learn not to hate yourself, accepting the past and looking toward the future. These are the beginning steps toward self knowledge, answering the question "who was I?". No longer just viscerally reacting, but for perhaps the first time in a long while introspecting. Most people do not take this step, and are continually "doubling down" on the false self created, thus making it perpetually more difficult to survive or to begin. Worse still is when they take this as gospel and constantly fret about "hurting feelings" or get lost in patching up the cracks of their psyche as defined by their mentor; Not becoming men, but boys trying to live for another. Obscuring the question as they think they have answered it.

As soon as you see excessive defensiveness/fear/hatred/etc in a person, you know much of where they stand. I used to try to help these people, but it is very rare you find one who isn't stuck in an unreachable state. All you can do is press their wounds to try and make them visible, as you can't do the work for them. That's all it takes to begin, the sight of a blemish on the mind for the formation of a series of questions. Assuming your target is human of course. Just watch Satyr call someone a "boy" or "child", then erect a defence on which his prey will readily impale themselves. Entertaining and educational.

I do have a degree of respect for the self help community, including PUA and MRAs. The one service they do for a lost person is to show them where damage may be and for a human, that is all you need. Their usefulness usually ends there however.
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PostSubject: Re: Are you a "Grown Wounded Child" (GWC)? Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:24 pm

From now on, I shall try to adapt to your preferred ways.

Shall we begin?

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PostSubject: Re: Are you a "Grown Wounded Child" (GWC)? Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:32 am

Hrm, where did the rest of that go? I was skimming a longer post, logged in and poof, 2 lines.

As for the example of "excessive defensiveness":

I'll attempt to express it as a deflecting response to something that pains the subject. The means you use when you are adamant about avoiding a subject out of fear.

I had a friend a long time ago who would shy away from any kind of discussion involving sexuality. He also had to be correct, often regardless of logic. His body language did show it; The crossing of arms, the slight turn away when he was uncomfortable. So I would press it. I'd go out of my way to prove him wrong when possible, just to see what would happen. He tried to take the "both of our arguments have merit" route, and would drop the subject. I asked him why he seems to do that, and he would not acknowledge it. I gave him the question, and he would not look at it. What more is to be done?

As for "groundbreaking": I could have been more clear. His term "grown wounded children" is his own, and he does adress many important points of distress for one who feels dependant or broken. However useful his work is, from the two videos I have seen above, it has been seen before in other mutations. It is unique, but does not seem to change the fundamentals of modern self help. You could probably take a person who follows him, and one who follows another decent self help guide (Even earlier ones, Karen Horney or Samuel Smiles) and the mental health results would be very similar. He is preaching self knowledge at the core, just his own brand. I learned this from a marketing book: [paraphrased] "A great way to make money on the internet is to take 3 of the bestselling works on a subject, condense it, put your own spin on it and sell it online". This is what much of self help is, though the condensing and personalizing does have some merit.

I did not put any words into your mouth nor wish to imply you were a self help guru who bashes because he loves (though that would be hilarious). That was just a local example. I was observing the act of trolling on the internet, and how it pertains to seeing mental damage and the ability to utilize it for positive results if pride can be set aside. I've seen a few posts where you have both attacked the person, but also explained why you percieved them as wrong, and I would focus on the latter if I was on the recieving end instead of insisting I was correct until death like my friend at the beginning of this post. It is possible for others to see your mistakes better than you can.

If you want to correct me, by all means do so. If I think I can add to the discussion, I will do so.

I'm afraid I didn't get far in the post before I lost it.

Now that you mention it, I should put more effort into my clarity. Something I am not used to doing but will be beneficial.
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PostSubject: Re: Are you a "Grown Wounded Child" (GWC)? Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:16 am

Satyr wrote:
The biological male who is prevented from maturing remains effete…he remains feminine.
(...)
When a child has been sheltered, not allowed to mature…retarded in its growth, it cannot cope with any contact with reality “Guilt” is a feeling derived from not meeting an ideal.
Embarassed


Satyr, thanks a lot. The entire post is excellent.

I can't understand how those 'sub-selves' are supposed to work.

Does it mean that a person switches between different personalities not knowing about it?

scratch






@Arcturus

Don't bite the hand that feeds.

Don't think in terms of Facebook, Twitter, and any other so-called social media.
affraid



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PostSubject: Re: Are you a "Grown Wounded Child" (GWC)? Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:08 am

Arcturus wrote:
Hrm, where did the rest of that go? I was skimming a longer post, logged in and poof, 2
lines.

As for the example of "excessive defensiveness":
I'll attempt to express it as a
deflecting response to something that pains the subject. The means you use when
you are adamant about avoiding a subject out of fear.
Fear is the primary emotion.
I have multiple reasons for believing so.

Perhaps your presence here can be traced back to it.

A reaction to fear is what you called “excessive.”
This value judgment lacks clarity, because it provides no standard to be measured against.
I will assume that it is a value judgment in relation to you.
The subject’s reaction was excessive in comparison to your own, in a similar situation.

Need is how we sense existence. Pain, suffering, is need left unsatisfied.
How able the particular individual is in satisfying his needs coupled with how the need dominates him – because needs have different crescendos within each individual – is what determines his reaction. Your “friends” discomfort with sex can be explained as his insecurity, derived from his experiences (a lack of experience being part of this), in satisfying this need; a need which was obviously quite dominant in his psyche at that time. I suspect he was a young man.

The method of using fear as some accusation is part of the current psycho-babble.
It’s an easy dismissal, offering the one using it a comforting self-flattering insinuation.
Every idea and ideal which does not conform to the current lovey-dovey crap is simply explained as fear-based. The fear beneath this method and the current, popular, morals and standards of “normality” are never explored looking for some deep anxiety.

Fear is what underlies many creative acts. The fear of loneliness might make one alter his outward attitude or go to the gym and get in shape….or hide in his home.
Fear is what keeps us civil and polite.
Fear makes us respect.
Fear is what drives us to learn.

What "pains the subject" is what makes it care.
What form this care, this reaction, will take is part of the "subject's" particular character.

Arcturus wrote:
I had a
friend a long time ago who would shy away from any kind of discussion involving
sexuality. He also had to be correct, often regardless of logic. His body
language did show it; The crossing of arms, the slight turn away when he was
uncomfortable. So I would press it. I'd go out of my way to prove him wrong
when possible, just to see what would happen. He tried to take the "both
of our arguments have merit" route, and would drop the subject. I asked
him why he seems to do that, and he would not acknowledge it. I gave him the
question, and he would not look at it. What more is to be done?
In this
case you should "press on the wounds".

That you need to do so is also part of your underlying fear.

Arcturus wrote:
I did not
put any words into your mouth nor wish to imply you were a self help guru who
bashes because he loves (though that would be hilarious). That was just a local
example. I was observing the act of trolling on the internet, and how it
pertains to seeing mental damage and the ability to utilize it for positive
results if pride can be set aside. I've seen a few posts where you have both
attacked the person, but also explained why you percieved them as wrong, and I
would focus on the latter if I was on the recieving end instead of insisting I
was correct until death like my friend at the beginning of this post. It is
possible for others to see your mistakes better than you can.
"Trolling" is a word I rarely use.

It's become kitsch.
Once you see a phenomenon you must explain why it comes about.
Stating an outcome is a start. An error is always the end result of a long process.
Explaining why, in your own words, it is like this and like that is the next step.

I would be doing nothing more than reporting if all I did was say that a person was wrong.
Why the person is constantly falling into error is the next step.

The type of arguments used to support a mistake is also part of the reasons why it was made.


Arcturus wrote:
If you want
to correct me, by all means do so. If I think I can add to the discussion, I
will do so

I'm afraid I didn't get far in the post
before I lost it.

Now that you mention it, I should put
more effort into my clarity. Something I am not used to doing but will be
beneficial.
Same reason why I erased my post.

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PostSubject: Re: Are you a "Grown Wounded Child" (GWC)? Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:50 pm

Thirsty wrote:
Don't bite the hand that feeds.

Don't think in terms of Facebook, Twitter, and any other so-called social media.

Do explain in greater detail, if you please. Biting the hand that feeds? Does this imply we are being fed and are content with this?
How does one think in terms of Facebook, and how did I?

Satyr wrote:
Perhaps your presence here can be traced back to it.
I asked myself this honestly and can't see how I am. I was directed here and it seems a good fit, perhaps I learn something and can give something as well? I feel no fear here, nor sate any insecurity I am aware of. I saw a place where there was little coddling and some wisdom. Not to say it is impossible, but I'll have to travel a longer road to understand the question fully.

Satyr wrote:
A reaction to fear is what you called “excessive.”
This value judgment lacks clarity, because it provides no standard to be measured against.
I will assume that it is a value judgment in relation to you.
The subject’s reaction was excessive in comparison to your own, in a similar situation.

I'd say it was a different reaction entirely. I will answer any question I can honestly and will try to question my own answers. The only similar situation I can think of is dealing with people asking about my employment status. I do tend to blow them off as I've anwered that too many times before and it leads to nowhere useful in my experience. Am I fearful of it or insecure about it? Yes, I am. I will look at it however.
Excessive in relation to what an average person would reply then? Or what I would consider an average response?
His was a dishonest answer, one that is visible because of what it protects. I do find it difficult to quantify.

Satyr wrote:
I suspect he was a young man.
Correct.

Satyr wrote:
The method of using fear as some accusation is part of the current psycho-babble.
It’s an easy dismissal, offering the one using it a comforting self-flattering insinuation.
Every idea and ideal which does not conform to the current lovey-dovey crap is simply explained as fear-based. The fear beneath this method and the current, popular, morals and standards of “normality” are never explored looking for some deep anxiety.

What is the difference between an accusation of fear and pointing out fear? How is it different if you point out my fear, I point out my friend's fear or society "accuses" one of fear? Intent of the agressor and interpretation of the defender? Setting aside the feelings one could get from it, what is the result? I enjoy having what outside entities would call my fear or weakness pointed out to me, as I can ask questions that may not have been considered before, accusation or not.

If every man is the interpreter of incoming data as it relates to him, it is then his responsibility to find the value (if any) in such claims.

I did feel as though I was doing him a service at the time and if he considered me wrong he could have come back, this time asking me the question. Fear is a driving force and a crippling one if left unseen. I can agree with your statement that fear is the primary emotion, though I have yet to understand it fully.

Satyr wrote:
What "pains the subject" is what makes it care.
What form this care, this reaction, will take is part of the "subject's" particular character. [...]
[...] That you need to do so is also part of your underlying fear.

Aaah! I like this! Is it a need to do so, and is it part of underlying fear? Who am I doing this for? Trying to make better people? Frightened of the world as it is, the majority? Entirely possible, good stuff. Seems beneficial currently, so spending time on this I still deem acceptable.

Satyr wrote:
I would be doing nothing more than reporting if all I did was say that a person was wrong.
Why the person is constantly falling into error is the next step.

The type of arguments used to support a mistake is also part of the reasons why it was made.

Yes, and I see value in this, regardless of how it is delivered as long as the educational components are intact. Your clarity is appreciated.
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PostSubject: Re: Are you a "Grown Wounded Child" (GWC)? Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:49 pm

Basic premise in my thinking about consciousness and fear as a reaction to the world.

--Sensing, perception, is a rudimentary form of consciousness.
When a plant turns its leaves, ever so slightly, to gather more sunlight, it is exhibiting this primitive form of perception.

--Consciousness is a sophisticated form of the previous described cellular (re)activity.
It develops a central nervous system to facilitate this aggregate cellular (re)activity to stimuli.

--Consciousness precedes self-consciousness.

--Consciousness begins as a sensual awareness which is outwardly focused.
The primary function of what we call consciousness is to direct the aggregate energies we call an organism.

--The brain is a hub acting as a nexus between internal information and external data.
It gathers and interprets its internal ordering; organs and cells and bioenergies and metabolic rates.
It also must gather and process and interpret external data, streaming into it via sense organs; the skin being the biggest one of all.
The skin is also an imperfect barrier (wall) which makes this internal ordering possible, and which enables the possibility of choice – a rudimentary form of free-will.
Within these porous walls self-ordering in the disordering can begin.

--Will is a term given to the brain processes, the mental agency, if you prefer, which directs the organism’s aggregate energies (activities and/or interactivities).
It is only as powerful as the energies available to it but more so only as powerful as its ability to take hold of, control, as many of these processes as possible – this is what we call self-control, strength, discipline…and also how well it can focus these energies upon an object/objective (concentration, will-power, determination etc.)

--Since the sense organs are outwardly focused, in the beginning, the brain experiences the world, the otherness, as the unknown.
The unknown is always a source of anxiety, or what we call a low level of fear.
This anxiety may increase or decrease depending on the brain’s experiences with the world or with particular aspects of it – we call this nurturing, training, educating, etc.

--This anxiety is a secondary development of the nervous system, as the most primitive organisms cannot feel emotion and so experience the world in the simplistic terms of ‘edible’ (good), not edible (bad).
Emotions develop later and can be considered a sophistication of the previous where this interpretation is automated.
This automation gains success by offering the organism a faster (re)action time. It is a more efficient and so is a more effective way of interpreting alien, otherness, the unknown.
Feeding, to draw metaphysical connections here, is the assimilation of a lower level of order by a higher level of order into its ordering.


--The evolutionary necessity of emotions, beginning with fear, is to defend itself, the organism, from otherness which preys upon it.
The binary edible/inedible adds another category, that of friend/foe.
From this an automated (re)action evolves, in regards to the “foe” part: that of flight/fight.
In regards to the “friend” part the reaction remains edible or not, and later it develops into similar/different.
Later still, it eventually becomes my kind and other kind….and then fuckable and not fuckable, to put it bluntly. Here I draw a connection between feeding and sex which is obvious, at least to me, in the very act of copulation. In essence sex retains the assimilation aspects of feeding, preying upon otherness, but, in most cases, it loses the destructive part…although in some species death is part of the mating rituals.


--From all of this we get the automated “lust,” which is a development of hunger; a blinding need leading to often irrational and risky behavior.
This also evolves into the social instinct.
Love is what we call this transformation of the lust emotional impact, enabling heterosexual bonding and mother/parental care.

Later it evolves into the tribal instinct which is a form of love for what is more like your sense of “I.” this presupposes self-consciousness.
Control the definition and perception of this "I" and you cnotrol the organism.
Like all forms of love it is blinding, and can be destructive.
With love the otherness is simplified into similarities. The one intoxicated by the chemicals involved can only perceive in the other what reminds him of himself or his ideal self.
When the chemicals wear off the obvious occurs.
It’s a kind of momentary madness making heterosexual procreation possible – it later
makes idealism and nationalism and tribalism possible.

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