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OnWithTheirHead
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PostSubject: pagan religion pagan religion EmptyTue May 22, 2018 3:28 pm

paganism can be good


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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptyMon Jun 10, 2019 11:32 am

Paganism is a spirituality not a religion. Spirituality describes a relationship between man's spirit and the world. spirit, properly defined, alludes to mind, or of the body/mind synthesis, when it is healthy; when it is ill it separates mind form body , i.e., noumenon from phenomenon, the ideal from the real.
Spirituality requires no sacred text and no proxies to relate to its divinity - nature is accessible to all.
Though the average layman always needs a social component to feel comforted and reassured, as he needs an authority to guide and direct him - always relating to metaphors literally.  
Not all schools of spirituality are religions, but all religions purport to be schools of spirituality. Religion is a qualification of spirituality, like species is a qualification of life.

Religion, properly defined, is a form of memetic farming.
It wasn't called, by Marxists, the 'opiate of the masses' for no reason - they knew about human husbandry, so they could recognize a competitor farmer.

Farmers parasitize their herd - they protect it, pamper it, keep it warm and well fed - they may even grow attached to it - but then they slaughter their offspring and milk their accumulated resources, denying them to their offspring.
Farming is a form of parasitism. The parasite gaining from the relationship far more than it gives back - an unbalanced relationship.
Not one between homoioi as the Spartans referred to one another, but one between superior and inferior.

To be more precise....husbandry is a cross between mutualism and parasitism, depending on the type - parasitism masking as mutualism.
The farmer acts as a mediator between the herd and a threatening world beyond the fencing - in memetic terms beyond the sacred text, the 'word of god' protects the believers from the 'evilness' of natural order.
A memetic-farmer presents himself as a proxy between the observable threatening and indifferent world, and a hypothetical, linguistically based, occult reality, presenting itself as 'more real than the perceived real' - i.e., hyper-real, surreal.
The occult world cannot be accessed independently but only through him - as mediating priest/shaman - or through holy scripture - a semiotic proxy.



The perfect metaphor for Religion.

Words/symbols are tools for clarifying, for discriminating, for distinguishing....not for creating artificial uniformities, as when one convolutes concepts by referring to both using the same term, or an inappropriate term.
Language clarifies, and so it is a philosophical medium....it does not obscure. This is where vermin flourish and to vermin prefer to obscure and to create convolution and confusion; in the darkness cockroaches and rats emerge, but they run and hide when the light is turned on.
Use language as a light - to reveal, and not to conceal.

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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptyMon Jun 10, 2019 11:38 am

The relationship is one of master/slave - superior with inferiors. Though he may love and be kind to them he does not consider them his equal, because they cannot do what he does - construct and maintain a fencing keeping the wilderness beyond away from the artificial enclosure.
He is flattering may caress his manimals because the master needs them just as much as they need him - codependency.
Both are using each other to survive within a world they fear.
unable to risk hunting an the uncertainties of foraging, the hunter enters what appears to be a mutually beneficial relationship with the manimals he needs to survive.
They, remaining clueless, perceive his care as mutually beneficial, until the day comes when he must harvest their young, or their resources meant for their young.
But manimals, like animals, have short attention spans and memories.

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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptyMon Jun 10, 2019 12:42 pm

Etymology of the term 'religion'
Quote :
Middle English (originally in the sense ‘life under monastic vows’): from Old French, or from Latin religio(n- ) ‘obligation, bond, reverence’, perhaps based on Latin religare ‘to bind’.

Its a form of spiritual bondage.

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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySat Nov 09, 2019 10:37 am



The more north you go the more individual traits are crucial for the survival of the entire tribe.

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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptyWed Nov 13, 2019 11:19 am



No, Jones...'logos' is how you corrupted a concept that existed more than 2000 years. Your version exists for that long, not the concept.
We pagans don't have to rebel against your corruptions....we have to expose them - aletheia {ΑΛΗΘΕΙΑ} - un-forget, uncover, reveal....and the rest will follow.
You do what all Abrahamics and Nihilists do....you corrupt language to validate your life-hating, nature-hating, delusions; you invert to convert cowards, hypocrites and idiots,, like you, to your defensive cause.

But, at least, you are fighting your own kind, and in the fight you uncover both what you and they are.
Inter-Subjective squabbles - inter-Abrahamic polemics.

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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySat Apr 25, 2020 10:10 pm


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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptyMon Feb 08, 2021 7:20 am

de Benoist, Alain wrote:
The sickly types aspire to form a herd. Quantity compensates them – at least they think it does – for what they lack in quality. If several suffer together they believe their suffering is reduced. Those who boast Judeo-Christian values sometimes attribute to the ‘powerful’ the feelings they would have or be tempted to have if they were there in their place. They do not see the true power is an end in itself and does not aim, on condition it is tranquil, at any utility – that the ‘will to will denies any end in itself and only tolerates an objective as a means in order to best itself deliberately in the game and organize a space for this game.’
In paganism happiness is never the antagonist of power, but nor is it an antagonist of equity.
By condemning the exaltation of weakness, paganism is not in any way aiming at justifying the crushing of the weak by the strong, nor forming the ‘ideological alibi’ of any sort of established disorder. To the contrary, it claims to contribute to the formation of the spiritual framework that allows every individual, whatever his rank, assuming only that he has the will, to cultivate what inside strengthens and does not undo him.
Paganism does not reproach Christianity for defending the weak who are unjustly oppressed.
It reproaches it for exalting them in their weakness and viewing it as the sign of their election and their title to glory; it reproaches Christianity for not helping them to become strong. So it is not a question of opposing the strong versus the weak – today, in any event, it is paganism that is weak and Judeo-Christian monotheism that is strong – but purely and simply of opposing a system of remaining weak with a system of becoming strong.
It is also a question of making a world that is not a vale of tears, not a theater of shadows, nor a stage where a man with erratic happiness acts out his salvation, but that natural field of self-expansion for a man capable of asserting his autonomy and establishing himself as his own project.

"By condemning the exaltation of weakness" by Judeo-Christian ethics, the transvaluation of values is returned.

Morality was not invented by anyone. It emerges naturally to facilitate cooperate reproductive and survival strategies, by imposing upon a self-regulating spontaneous behavioural limit.
Abrahamism institutionalizes and weaponizes these innate impulses by first converting them to codes, e.g., linguistic, behavioural, thinking codes of conduct.
It's not accidental that additional, socioeconomically motivated codes of conduct, were presented to mankind chiselled on stone tablets; additional codes imposing further restrictions to natural organic impulses, produces a division between nature based innate moral conduct and manmade, technologically based, laws of socioeconomic conduct - gene/meme.

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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySun Feb 14, 2021 6:09 pm

Nothing can destroy paganism because it is the worship of natural order. To destroy paganism you would have to destroy natural order.
All they can do is bury and conceal it with logos, with semiotics and symbols- with numbers and words, twisting and turning it into their corrupted ideals.

Just look at how ridiculous they are when they try to conceal male/female under rhetoric and semiotic that trigger emotions and imagery and anxieties.
The enemy is incapable of changing the world with their words and numbers. The most they can accomplish is to silence us, and to exterminate those who worship reality and nature.
They can't change the world so they try to change us; they can't escape[e and destroy the world so they destroy us.
And?
They cannot kill our gods. all they can do is bury and try to forge them; all they can do is warp their memory and alter our memory of them.
Our gods are representations of nature and they cannot escape nature....no matter how many occult, linguistic constructs they fabricate to cover it and forget it.
Their one-god, their abstractions,. depend on one or more believers to remain alive. Ours do not.
Our gods remain true whether we exist or not; whether we worship them or not. they are independent from us.
Or existence does not affect them.
The enemy's god is not independent from its believers. It vanishes when they stop believing or are exterminated.
It cease to exist the moment its thought, and the word representing its thought, is eliminated.
This is why they are so desperate and degenerate...so needy and vile.
Our beliefs do not require their submission and concession, theirs require our concession or our silenced.
Our gods are powerful, like the wind, like thunder, like gravity, theirs are impotent, like a thought, like a dream, like a hope.
Fuck them.

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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySun Feb 14, 2021 6:19 pm

Fuck them and all their lineage. Fuck them and all that they stand for.
We see our gods every morning and every night. We do not need prayers and word games to convince ourselves of their existence. We experience them every fuckin day of our lives.
They cannot kill our gods. No damn Nietzsche can declare them dead or us their guilty assassins.
Our gods exist beyond symbols and beliefs. These are just ways we mortals can engage the divine without ever embodying it, or overcoming it.
We are children of the light and twilight and darkness cannot make us go away. We exist as long as energy exists.
We exist no matter how many words try to conceal us.

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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySun Feb 14, 2021 7:11 pm

It's as if disbelief in our beliefs would protect them from the consequences.
Taking their own convictions as an example they've assumed that belief - acceptable, acknowledgment - is necessary.
Their delusional god crumbles when he is not believed, our remain unaffected; their abstractions require, belief, acceptance, acknowledgment, lucid submission...ours do not.
They can remain as they are, our gods do not require them to believe. The consequences are not occult and mystical....they are pragmatic and immediate, even if they may blame it all on others or try to cast away the responsibility upon some other....it does not matter.
The more they do so the more severe the consequences; all the more predictable they become.
Their punishment is certain...how they will cope is their problem...even when they try to make it ours they make it inevitable to repeat, and then repeat again, and again...no matter how much they unload responsibility. They become victims of their own stupidity. and cowardice.

So, why would I even care to change them?
Why?
Sure, they can be annoying and dangerous, but if you know what is happening you can reduce the risks in an environment of no accessible frontiers - and then wait it out, preserving what needs to be recalled, letting the gods take their vengeance upon them.

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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySun Feb 14, 2021 8:15 pm

What if they claim our gods as their own?
Can gods be fooled by words and symbols?
Their degeneracy will corrupt even their memory and expose the falsehood even to a simpleton....in time.
It's all a matter of time.
Can words shape reality?
Can convictions alter fate?

Are symbols conduits towards cosmos or towards alternate worlds?
They may persuade the masses - quantities is all they are about - but they can never embody qualities.
Our gods are immune to their linguistics.
They existed before and will continue to exist after.
We are but witnesses, participating in their struggle.

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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptyWed Jul 21, 2021 3:57 pm

Paganism is the worship of nature and natural forces - order - in the form of the gods, it is not a submission to them.
Pagans are not Abrahamics. In Abrahamism is total submission to their absolute abstraction - idea - the recommended road to salvation.
Pagans are known to challenge or even try to outsmart their deities, metaphorically expressed in the sciences as the desire to control and direct natural forces.

We good Europeans, we heathens, do not kneel, nor bow, when we worship. We stand with our hands upstretched and opened wide.
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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySat Jul 24, 2021 3:18 am

"Paganism is the worship of nature and natural forces - order - in the form of the gods,"

gods? who are these gods?
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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySat Jul 24, 2021 3:36 am

Something like this?


John P. Ribner
, Proud Odinist. Hail the Allfather! Hail the gods! Hail the ancestors!
Updated April 1, 2021 · Author has 122 answers and 848.2K answer views
How would one pray to Odin or Thor?
First of all, one doesn’t “pray” to the Norse gods. The concept of prayer is specific to the Abrahamic religions. This is the problem that often occurs when people raised in Judeo-Christian faiths become interested in paganism. They think that everything operates in pretty much the same way, but it doesn’t. For example:

It’s not a simple matter of copying the rites and switching the names “God” and “Jesus” with Odin and Baldr.
You don’t go to “church,” per se. You can address the gods anywhere you please, though I find the woods/nature to offer the best connection.
There’s no such thing as a pagan “Bible.” The only one who wrote down anything about the gods was Snorri Sturlsson, and he did so after he converted to Christianity, making his information a bit suspect.
Even the concepts of good/evil/sin/afterlife are much different between pagan and monotheistic faiths.
With that out of the way, let’s take a look at praying/not praying to Odin and Thor. Most heathens look upon the Aesir and Vanir as venerate ancestors. As such, one addresses them, communicates with them, and beseeches them, but never “prays.” Many heathens will say with pride that they don’t kneel before their gods. Since this is an important part of their faith, it’s worth giving some thought to, as it offers a good barometer for how you are expected to interact with the Aesir, Vanir, land wights, and ancestor spirits.

If you’re read all that and still want to commune with the old gods, I would recommend following Mikael Bynke’s advice in his answer to your question. He hits it spot on with the tried-and-true formula of:

Invoking/inviting the god’s name.

Saying some flattering words about the god you are speaking to. For example, calling Odin a “wise wanderer” and describing Thor as a “mighty friend and giant slayer.” A little flattery goes a long way with the Norse gods.

Next state the purpose of your request. Example: Lord Odin, far wanderer and wisest of all the gods, grant me wisdom, courage, and victory in my travels.”

Leave your offering.

I hope this helps!

About John P. Ribner

Born in Flint, Michigan. Raised by narcissists. Victim of a drive-by shooting. Writer. Singer/songwriter. Punk rock enthusiast. Martial artist. Social critic. Iconoclast. Author of “Wasted Youth: A Flint Punk Rock Memoir.
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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySat Jul 24, 2021 6:57 am

reasonvemotion wrote:
"Paganism is the worship of nature and natural forces - order - in the form of the gods,"

gods?  who are these gods?
Anthropomorphic representations.
Idols.
Is it hard for you to follow text?

Difference between Olympian gods and Abrahamic god(s).
-The gods, as representations of nature and natural forces, are sensually experienced daily. There's no need for faith.
-Gods are not representations of absolutes, so they do not contradict experienced reality. They are not nihilistic.
-Gods have flaws, so they remain realistic.

Laymen, of course, need a literal interpretation of spiritual allegories. They need to believe there is actually a god, a being, on top of mount Olympus.

You have it backwards, sweets....the gods were replaced, switched, with the words "Jesus" or Abraham's one-god. Jesus is an adaptation of Dionysus. He too was used as a scapegoat, and was born of a virgin.
You are worshipping a corrupted version of heathenism, convinced that you've transcended. This is your crutch.

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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySat Jul 24, 2021 9:51 pm


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Before I respond in writing to your text I thought you may like this video........
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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySat Jul 24, 2021 10:42 pm

"pagan" + "religion" seems contradictory to me.

Religion is dogmatic, Abrahamism, indoctrinated moral propaganda that does not respect pagan people or natural European culture.

I don't think most modern people (including the op) can understand paganism properly because of the thorough taint and corruption of Abrahamic dogmas.
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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySat Jul 24, 2021 11:05 pm

It’s fine if modern Neopagans want to “fall into the arms” of nature. I’m still not quite sure what exactly that’s supposed to mean.

This worldview centered around the idea of nature as a caregiver into whose arms people can choose to fall, however, is very much a modern one.

In fact, this whole idea of “falling into the arms” of nature would be almost completely out of place in the ancient world.
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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySat Jul 24, 2021 11:20 pm

The thing about severing the roots of a tree, plant, bush, weed, etc, is that once it's done, the plant is dead.

There's no coming back from that, no regeneration suffices.

You burn out or poison the roots, and the organism is dead, forever.



I do not believe that most Modern people can come back or return to Nature. There is a level of disconnection that cannot be reconnected.

Does this not apply to you reasonvemotion? Aren't you this disconnected??? Aren't you merely virtue-signaling?

Can you even demonstrate your connection with nature/paganism???
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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySat Jul 24, 2021 11:54 pm

I don't connect love of nature to being Pagan, because it is not.
Love of nature is an appreciation of the world you live in.
I left the city to live in a rural community for this reason.

but this is not the argument here.

It depends on what is being promoted here in this argument by Satyr and yourself.

In historical times Paganism was entirely different to today's Neopagans.
For most people in the ancient Mediterranean world, nature was a frightening and dangerous thing that could never really be trusted.
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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySun Jul 25, 2021 12:02 am

reasonvemotion wrote:
I don't connect love of nature to being Pagan, because it is not.
Love of nature is love of past.
If you do not honor your ancestors,
Then how are you pagan in anyway?
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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySun Jul 25, 2021 12:21 am

Aeon wrote:
Love of nature is love of past.
If you do not honor your ancestors,
Then how are you pagan in anyway?

Naturalists?


You tell me. It appears you have a very definite personal opinion on being Pagan.
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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySun Jul 25, 2021 12:56 am

Who is an authority on Paganism?

The Pope?
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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySun Jul 25, 2021 1:15 am

It took you almost thirty minutes to reply with that!
You always hold your cards too close to your chest.
It was a simple question and even then you shy away from answering.
No point in debating with you, your mission is to steer the conversation away from the subject and more in the direction where you can attack me.
The inhumanity of the Western world. LOL
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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySun Jul 25, 2021 1:36 am

You're the one using an Appeal to Authority fallacy.

I'm honestly asking you, who is an authority on paganism? Tell me.
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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySun Jul 25, 2021 1:38 am

Let's begin with what is not pagan, meaning Abrahamic religion, dogma, Christians, Jews, Muslims.

So which individuals, groups, peoples, societies, of Europeans, resisted the pressure of Catholicism for centuries and millenniums?

Which Modern beliefs are not Abrahamic?



This is merely a method. You can start there, if you truly do not know.
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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySun Jul 25, 2021 3:30 am





To compare Paganism with Christianity for instance is difficult since the term pagan can be used to identify many different sects and beliefs, "Biblical" Christianity would be the only one I could use as a response to your question.

The major differences, (but not all) are:

Biblical Christianity professes one God, where paganism often teaches many or no god.
Christianity also teaches that the Bible contains God's words to mankind. With Paganism (correct me if I am wrong) it does not have one main religious text or set of beliefs to follow.
With Christianity Jesus is the son of God. I do know that some pagans believe in Jesus as one of the gods, but do not put any significance on Him.

Therefore, a person cannot be a Christian and a pagan at the same time.
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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySun Jul 25, 2021 4:55 am

It seems there are Masculine expressions of Paganism and feminine expressions. But if the feminine expressions somewhat lead to a disconnection from ancestry (due to the female's changing loyalties) then is the feminine form really "Pagan"? The change of loyalties is a natural reaction to a stagnated/conquered bloodline which eventually tends to happen.

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PostSubject: Re: pagan religion pagan religion EmptySun Jul 25, 2021 7:23 am

Paganism is not a religion. It is a spiritual stance, a worldview.
The first began by worshiping their dead ancestors. They were their protective spirits.

Nature = sum of all nurture, i.e., past.
The worship of nature is essentially the worship of the past as it manifests through your presence.
Your presence is the manifestation of your ancestry.

Another angle is.
Nature = known and unknown forces, powers, patterns, i.e., order.
A worship of natural order, as it manifests in oneself.

There are only three pure religions, with a some additional smaller ones, like scientology:
Judaism, and from Judaism coming in contact with Hellenism Christianity, and from desert tribes coming in contact with Judaism, and Zoroastrianism, Islam.
Three criteria:
1- A priestly class, believed to be mediators between the mundane and the divine, viz., the noetic and the phenomenal world.
2- A sacred text, believed to be expressing the universal mind, the divine mind, of the one-god.
3- Intolerance for every other spiritual tradition - teleological - creation leads to destruction; messianic - a conviction that one is on a sacred mission; absolutism - there is one and only one true, god, one true way of worshipping the divine.
4- Worship of the intangible, the ideal, the idea - religion is ideological. It doesn't tolerate idols - in 2 of the 3 versions, because it is an idol worship of a purified idea - the abstraction - unable to even tolerate a tangible representation because it "soils" the divine ideal, i.e., blasphemy. This is positive nihilism at its best.
A mindset, a psychology, that leads directly to postmodernism, through Marxism/Modernism.
This is why they believe numbers and words are sacred.

Though some aspect of all three can be found in other spiritual traditions what distinguishes these three religions is how all three are present, especially the sacred texts and the belief in absolutes, tolerating no alternative.
Spiritual totalitarianism. Worship of the absolute nil, concealed in the absolute one, cultivates an absolutist mindset.
What is worshiped, through these abstractions, is the mind, projected as a universal consciousness. This is expressed as a absolute rejection of the body, or tis downgrading, which is antithetical to heathenism which worships the physical.

The worship of the absolute begins with the worship of the one, as sacred, and then settles for a worship of the nil.
In effect Abrahamism is nihilistic in that it worships the nil, and conceals it with the one. Both contradict experienced reality in that there is no nil nor one, anywhere but in the mind of the worshipper. So these religions are proselytizing.
The only reason Judaism stopped was to preserve its spiritual elitism, its choseness. This is the major difference with Christianity which preserved its Hellenic cosmopolitanism. Islam is closest to Judaism, in spirit.

Christianity also preserved other Heathen practices like idol worship and polytheism, through the worship of saints, prophets, replacing gods and heroes.
Protestantism moved away from this Catholic and Orthodox practice, coming closer to Judaism and Islam, which tolerate no idols and no representations of their divine totalitarianism.
Judaism was also affected when it came in contact with Hellenism. So much so that they had to prevent Hellenism from spreading among the Jews of that time.

The contact sparked Semitic pagan traditionalism, giving birth to Zionism....and, through Hellenic/Roman, cosmopolitanism, giving birth to Marxism. The creation of Kabbalism is particularly interesting gin that it appropriated - as they often do - Hellenic Orphism, and combined it with Egyptian spirituality and Zoroastrianism, to create a uniquely Jewish occultism.

Children of the book, by the book, for the book.
Logos... spiritual nihilists that have corrupted the utility of semiotics and made it divine.
They worship words....because words, and numbers, are insights in the mind of the universal mind.

They practice magic, as the art of linguistic manipulation, producing self-fulfillnig prophesies, they ascribe to a divine source, refusing to accept responsibility - duplicity is essential to their convictions.
This is why they deny free-will, unless it is as a vehicle to punish those who turn against their sacred texts.
But if you notice, even their conceptions of free-will are duplicitous.
They want to preserve "innocence", as if they ever had it, as a way of signaling their worthiness to be "chosen" for eternal life, if they haven't declared it their birthright.
Even their feigned humility conceals arrogance on a universal scale.


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