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 Paganism and natural order.

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Kvasir
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Paganism and natural order. - Page 9 EmptyFri Aug 28, 2020 7:47 pm

Francis Parker Yockey wrote:

Life and death are not opposites, not polarized--Life and matter are the poles. Death is only through poetic derivation the opposite of life-in death, the living become matter, the principles of life, spirit, departs. The process of this occurring is called 'death', or in other words, Death is the final performance of Life
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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Paganism and natural order. - Page 9 EmptyThu Dec 31, 2020 1:46 pm

In paganism - Indo-Euroepan spirituality - nature is god, but not a singularity, not a one-god, as is evident from their multiple deities.
Each deity represented a natural force, but men can conceptualize them all as a singular concept, because most men cannot think outside binaries, and the mind is a tool for simplifying/generalizing multiplicities into singular images, sensations etc.
Unlike the Abrahamic one-god, their divine forces were not omnipotent, omniscient, but wee fallible, because they did not replace the one-god concept with the secular concept of absolute order to fool themselves into believing they've progressed from Afro-Asiatic spiritual superstitions.

So, when I use "nature" I mean the totality of natural forces participating in unison, which are part of a fluctuating environment that is not absolutely ordered, but contains chaos as part of it.
Therefore, natural selection does not imply intent, motive, nor a telos, but a process that would include ordered forces, such as electromagnetism, strong weak force, gravity, but also random, forces, chaotic forces, determining outcomes.
Because the Greeks and all pagans did not imagine their divinities, i.e., nature, as omnipotent and absolute totalitarians, leaving no room for human agency. the conceptualized them as powerful natural forces that participated, along with human agency, - and chaos, I would add - in determining events.

Though the term 'nature' is singular it does not mean a singularity.
It seems you have to add disclaimers for imbeciles to not fall into these cognitive traps.
So, if I say all is naturally selected I do not imply that there is a singular controlling will deciding and choosing...but it implies a multiplicity of unconscious forces - anthropomorphized to make it easier on imbeciles to conceptualize - which was the intent of all ancient mythologies.
Nature does not mean a singular entity with a will, with conscious intent. It is a metaphor representing a multiplicity of forces, energies, and biological impulses, attractions, repulsions, death, sexuality, courage etc.
All of these forces - including chaotic energies - participate in determining, and selecting.

Zeus, for example, was not an actual male entity - except for the mediocre layman - but represented electromagnetism, father of most other natural forces.

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Paganism and natural order. - Page 9 EmptyThu Dec 31, 2020 1:56 pm

This is why pagan gods are not perfect, they have vices that can be manipulated by mortals; they have weaknesses.
Unlike the Abrahamic, totalitarian, one-god - singularity - they are not omnipotent and omniscient - they are not absolutes.

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Paganism and natural order. - Page 9 EmptySun Jan 10, 2021 6:54 am

At its core paganism, i.e., heathenism, Indo-Euroepan spirituality, is the worship and respect for natural forces, including chaos.
Anthropomorphic idols, e.g., gods and heroes, are used to make the incomprehensible comprehensible to the average mind. Like all forms of spirituality they are metaphysics for the layman - dumbing-down complex concepts, often concealing nonsense in their obscurantism and mysticism.

Anthropomorphic imagery encapsulates the known and the unknown, the comprehended and the incomprehensible, into an intimate image, reducing existential anxiety.

Science springs from philosophy, and philosophy is spirituality given logos, i.e., reason, evidence, logic, clarity, understanding - like physics is the comprehension of what had remained metaphysical, and chemistry of what was alchemy, and astronomy and psychology of what was astrology....
Superstition is where ignorance finds solace in nonsense.  
Philosophy illuminates and discriminates between nonsensical and sensical; between the irrational and the relational; between the real and the surreal; between the real and the ideal; between the useful and the useless; between the potent and effective and the impotent and ineffective.

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Paganism and natural order. - Page 9 EmptyThu Jan 14, 2021 9:30 am

de Benoist, Alain wrote:
When it comes to specifying the values particular to paganism, people generally listed features such as these: an eminently aristocratic conception of the human individual; an ethics founded on honour (‘shame’ rather than ‘sin’); an heroic attitude towards life’s challenges; the exaltation and sacrilization of the world, beauty, the body, strength, health; the rejection of ‘worlds beyond’; the inseparability of morality and aesthetics; and so on. From this perspective, the highest value is undoubtedly not a form of ‘justice’ whose purpose is essentially interpreted as flattening the social order in the name of equality, but everything that can allow a man to surpass himself.
For paganism, it is pure absurdity to consider the results of the workings of life’s basic framework as unjust. In the pagan ethic of honour, the classic antithesis noble vs. base, courageous vs. cowardly, honourable vs. dishonourable, beautiful vs. deformed, sick vs. healthy, and so forth replace the antithesis operative in a morality based on the concept of sin: good vs. evil, humble vs. vainglorious, submissive vs. proud, weak vs. arrogant, modest vs. boastful, and so on.
However, while all this appears to be accurate, the fundamental feature, in my opinion, is something else entirely. It lies in the denial of dualism.

[On Being Pagan]

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Paganism and natural order. - Page 9 EmptyThu Jan 14, 2021 9:35 am

Strauss, Leo wrote:
The crisis of modernity on which we have been reflecting leads to the suggestion that we should return. But return to what? Obviously, to Western civilization in its pre-modern integrity, to the principles of Western civilization.
Yet, there is a difficulty here, because Western civilization consists of two elements, has two roots, which are in radical disagreement with each other.
We may call these elements, as I have done elsewhere, Jerusalem and Athens, or, to speak in non-metaphorical language, the Bible and Greek philosophy.
This radical disagreement today is frequently played down, and this playing down has a certain superficial justification, for the whole history of the West presents itself at first glance as an attempt to harmonize or to synthesize the bible and Greek philosophy. But a closer study shows that what happened and has been happening in the West for many centuries is not a harmonization but an attempt at harmonization.
These attempts at harmonization were doomed to failure for the following reason: each of these two roots of the Western world sets forth one thing as the one thing needful, and the one thing needful proclaimed in the Bible is incompatible, as it is understood in the Bible, with the one thing needful proclaimed by Greek philosophy, as it is understood by Greek philosophy. To put it very simply and therefore somewhat crudely, the one thing needful according to Greek philosophy is the life of autonomous understanding. The one thing needful as spoken by the bible is the life of obedient love.
Academic whistleblower.
He had to return to his own tradition's mysticism and obscurantism to create the subtext "hiding" in the text - esoteric readings of Hellenism and of Nietzsche, to harmonize what remain incompatible world-views and existential attitudes.

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Paganism and natural order. - Page 9 EmptyFri Jan 15, 2021 9:09 am



Chaos and Order....chaos defined as random energies, not complexity - complexity implies occult order, or a hidden underlying singularity.
Energies can only be conceptualized as a singular idea, because the organic brain can only conceptualize binaries, integrating movement and multiplicity in the form of multiples or divisions of dualities.
Therefore, energy is distinguished from matter using self as the median - what is faster then the conscious metabolic rhythms, is perceived as energy; what is slower as solid matter - intermediate state would be perceived as liquid.
Using the organic form as the median order is evaluated in relation to it - higher or lower, simple or complex, conspicuous or inconspicuous - ergo the complex is always placed in the mind, the inconspicuous part of organic ordering. In this regard chaos is the antithesis of what the organism is intimate with, i.e., is anti self, or what it knows and understand of self - its knowledge and understanding becomes the median standard, constantly changing upward as knowledge and understanding increases, so man understands the hidden order as a higher order, when in fact, a lower order would just as easily fall out of man's percpetual-event-horizon, interpreted as void, darkness....

Chaos would be energies with no pattern, remaining on the quantum level - and constantly receding - because it is unable to harmonize with other energies.
Human brains can only conceptualize energy as a duality, implying a singularity, represented by the term "energy", or "flux", or "universe"...

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Paganism and natural order. - Page 9 EmptyTue May 25, 2021 9:29 am

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Paganism and natural order. - Page 9 EmptyMon May 31, 2021 12:38 am

F.W.J. Shelling wrote:
--The intelligence (self), strives, indeed at every moment to exhibit the absolute synthesis; as Leibniz says, the soul brings forth at every moment the presentation of the universe. But since it is unable to do so through an absolute act, it attempts to show it forth through a successive progression in time.

--The opposition to self arises anew at every moment, and is at every moment again annulled. This reengendering and reabolition of the opposition at every moment must be the ultimate ground of all motion. The principle, which is the basic to a dynamic physics, has its place, like all basic principles of the subordinate sciences, in transcendental philosophy…self seeks itself, but in so doing actually flees from itself.

--The circular line is the original synthesis of finitude and infinity, into which even the straight line must be resolved. The succession only appears to proceed in a straight line and constantly flows back into itself.

--The basic character of life, in particular, will consist in this, that it is a sequence, reverting into itself, fixated, and sustained by an inner principle; and just as intellectual life, whose image it is, or the identity of consciousness, is sustained only by the continuity of presentations, so life is sustained only by the continuity of internal motions; and just as the intelligence, in the succession of its presentations, constantly struggles to achieve consciousness, so life must be thought of as engaged in constant struggle against the course of nature, or in an endeavor to uphold its identity against it.

Conflict and flux, or the flux of conflict. War is equated with nature because war determines outcomes, checkpoints, revivals, nature's fluctuating equilibrium; in this case of the self. The clash of physical energies is the battle to maintain an organism, so spiritual suffering is the merciless clash of subject/object evaluations to maintain the identity.


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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Paganism and natural order. - Page 9 EmptyWed Jun 09, 2021 7:58 am

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Paganism and natural order. - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 25, 2022 8:24 am

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Paganism and natural order. - Page 9 EmptySun Sep 25, 2022 2:16 pm

Pagan natural order is not complete, whole, perfect....and this is evident in how they anthropomorphize their gods.
No pagan god is perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent...none of them.

I urge all to read Kazantzakis little Ascetic booklet....

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Paganism and natural order. - Page 9 EmptyMon Nov 14, 2022 8:21 am

The basic difference between paganism and Abrahamism - or any nihilistic spirituality - is that paganisms/heathenism, believes in what is experienced, giving to the observable an anthropomorphism or divinity, whereas nihilistic spirituality, such as the Abrahamic triad believes in what is contradicted by experience, giving the abstraction, existing in the mind, an autoapomorphic form and a name/word, symbol.
Paganism begins with the observable, the experienced; nihilism begins with the ideal contradicting the observable, the experienced.
As such pagan gods continue to exist as representations of natural forces, gaining strength power by the quantity of its following; nihilistic spirituality, has gods that cease to exist if there is no mind that believes in them since they are entirely noetic - memetic - idea, with no external referent, and in fact contradicting external referents, e.g., singularity, the immutable, indivisible, static, absolute, immortality, a state of complete peace and comfort, an absence of strife and of injustices (war, agon), a state lacking all suffering, completion, wholeness being...etc.

Nihilistic god can only exist in the mind, as mind.
Pagan gods exist as energy with pattern, force, dynamism, interactivity...

Allegorically:
Pagan gods are the sound interpreted by the mind, of an event, an act, such as a falling tree, or a lightning strike; nihilistic one-god is the idea of a sound that is never heard but only in the mind, shared and described from mind to mind, imagined in any way, necessitating a dogma to keep the fantasy within specific parameters, producing a kind of man, a kind of collective, all believing in a sound none has heard but all believe that they've heard in their own subjective way - a sound with no source.

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Paganism and natural order. - Page 9 EmptySat Nov 19, 2022 9:27 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Paganism and natural order. Paganism and natural order. - Page 9 EmptySun Nov 27, 2022 9:01 am

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Wisdom is a refinement of our understanding; understanding is finding interconnectivity in our knowledge (patterns underlying patters)
Wisdom adjust our over- under-estimations of ourselves, our objectives and the effort required to bridge the gap between them.

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