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Satyr
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PostSubject: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyFri Mar 14, 2014 8:33 am

Man's (re) cognition of beauty and man's appreciation of it is not a novelty.
We might say all big-brained species have a form of recognition, and are attracted to certain parts of reality.
Some more than others.
But what is being recognized?

For me there are two things at play:
The sexual and the existential.

They also tie into each other because sexuality, eros, is an extension of existence, a product of it and a way of coping with it.

EROTIC
The erotic aesthetic, the purely sexual appreciation of form, is about the recognition of health, and virility - reproductive promise.
--In females the 7/10 rule, waste to hip ratio, represents fertility, and a high potential to bear children.
Unblemished skin, shiny hair, also reflects the organism's organic health, and an inherited health.
--In males, size, shape, chest to shoulder, to waste ratios, representing an inherited ability to amass and to maintain a bigger form - control over resources.

In both cases the observer is attracted to the other's potentials, when merged with; what the other adds as possibility, to the combination.
Of course, the sexual focus differs between males and females, creating the two different psychologies in relation to existence.
For a female her investment is larger, and so she must be more careful...She also needs a safe, predictable environment to reduce the stress upon her during gestation and weaning.
For the male things are more tentative. He has a short time to prove himself, spread his genes and then pass on, replaced by a younger, stronger, male.
So numbers are important. The more females he copulates with the more chances he has to pass on his genes – again increased possibility.
Only within controlled environments where sexuality, particularly male sexuality, is strictly limited, and has a cost, does a more feminine attitude emerge in males.

For the erotic aesthetic ideal symmetry is important. Symmetry, proportionality, is a form of order.
When recognized in other, it reflects genetic health, or the energy resources available to contribute to a more precise, time consuming, production of form.
Chaos is easy; order requires focused energies... more energy to come about and to maintain itself within the entropy.

EXISTENTIAL
This type must precede and be the foundation of the erotic sense of appreciation for the beautiful.
In this type, again, it is order, symmetry, how the delicate, the rare, the ordering, can resist disordering.

Symmetry is part of it, but here we also feel beauty in space....the possibility of space.
How this space is filled has been explored in the east (See Feng Shui), but also in design, in architecture... how one encloses and fills in the possibilities of space.
Space is a projection of possibility - matter, energy is a possibility within the emptiness of the possible....the yet to be.
In sexuality, eros, the "the to be" is a projection of reproduction possibility.

Pleasure is the negation of the sensation of existing – which is need/suffering.
Probability is the negation of existential emptiness... order a negation of increasing, effortless entropy.
We are psychologically soothed by any appearance of such a negation, resistance, of entropy.

Nature can be thought of in two ways – dualistically as it is man's nature to do so:
- As a looking back (sum of all nurturing) – a looking back towards higher order (the god principle, also creating nostalgia and melancholy as a desire for the never to be).
- As a yet to be, a projection forward... a towards...
Herein lays the cost, risks, demanding careful appreciation of the past, so that expectations do not become fantastic, other-worldly, detached from reality.
The erotic is about the "yet to be".... agape about the “has been,” or is present, but not for long.
The first is a burning caused by the unknown possibilities excitement produced by anxiety and its antidote hope.
The second is a form of melancholic, sadness... a love of the apparent knowing that it is so fragile... a piece of ordering in a world where disorder sweeps all order away.

We sympathize with the other, the apparent... even if it is inanimate.
In its ephemeral essence we recognize our own lot.
Its value is in its resistance to decay... its order in the chaos. A memory we collect and preserve to inspire us and give us courage... to comfort ourselves.
Our feminine psychology wants to protect it, preserve it, nurture it, help it persist... as a way of expressing this desire as towards one's self.
Our masculine side values only what can do so on its own, from its own innate essence... seeing in intervention, trickery, a form of illusion.
What value is there in what requires aid to maintain itself in the chaos?
Its value is only symbolic, not pragmatic; psychological, emotional, not rational.

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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyFri Mar 14, 2014 10:28 am

There can be no death, without first being life.
There can be no life, without death.
The concepts have meaning in relation to each other.
inanimate flux, interactivity, precedes animated interactivity, just as life precedes the emergence of consciousness, and consciousness precedes the emergence of self-consciousness.
Each step is a higher form of ordering, within the disordering, which characterizes the antithesis of life to death...and the Hellenic agon, the struggle, the towards - as in Will to Power....Will to Life....Will to God....etc.

Will is the focus of the ordering, the aggregate energies participating in the organism, the ordering, upon a projected object/objective. the object/objective is an abstraction, a symbol, a method of guidance, of focus.
When taken literally, it becomes the absolute, the Theos, the end.
The object/objective, being a mental construct, is artistic...a tool. It is unattainable. It utility is in orienting and directing the Will.
The advantage gained, by the organism, is one of efficiency...synergy being a inferior aggregate pool of energies overpowering, with superior focus of said energies, an organism with more aggregate energies available to it - the Martial arts principles.
Efficiency increases possibility, or effectiveness. It makes the possible more probable.

Life is a (re)action, rejection of death. It requires effort, energies, consistency, ordering, to persist.
Death is easy, life is hard.
Life is experiences as need - a lack.
Suffering is its extreme.

Pleasure is the momentary cessation of the consciousness of the dominant need/suffering, before it is replaced by another in consciousness.
Strength, in relation to life, is the measure of endurance to need/suffering - ergo strength is a measurement of weakness.

--------------------------

Nihilism is the negation of existence.
It's substitution with human abstractions, which promise, or construct an artificial paradigm detaching from reality.
It's fundamental essence is that of inversion. Nihilism takes the real, the perceived, the aesthetic, and flips it on its head....using the binary system.

Existence = [+]
The apparent, the real, the positive.

Nihilism turns it into a [-].
By doing so it proposes human artifacts as the [+].
Now human abstractions, symbolized by words and only referring back to human abstractions, become the positive...reality becomes the negative.
THIS is nihilism at work.

Now the absence of an absolute, the lack, the experience of existence, the absence of universal morality or a preexisting meaning, becomes a negative....when it is a positive....full of possibility.
The positive now is the very negation of this possibility...its inversion, its contradiction.
This is a form of mind-control.

Using human fear, anxiety in relation to the unknown, Nihilism manipulates human lack, offering it a "fulfillment" founded on words.
The word, the symbol of a metal construct, with no reference outside the human mind, becomes the certain, the absolute, the comforting, the escape.
Words now become detached from actions. Like freedom, love, friendship....beauty.
They are idealized...turned into pure noumenon, unsoiled by the real, the earthly - they are deified.

Secular Humanism is not the opposite of Christianity...it is its next phase...Christianity minus Jesus....just as Christianity is Judaism minus Hellenism, or minus the entitlement of birth as the "chosen ones."

Hellenism is paganism, cosmopolitanism rooted in an openness to life, to existence - a reaffirmation of existence in its entirety.
Existence awaiting discovery, not as a beyond, but as a presence, not as a human construct but as a what challenges humanity and life.

Beauty not as something mystical, mysterious, but as something recognizable, fundamental, preexisting the emergence of man...man who discovers it, recalls it...like a remnant of a past a near absolute...nostalgia.
With beauty we recognize, reaffirm, what is passing.




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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyFri Mar 14, 2014 10:49 am

Just as life only has meaning as a reaction to the absence of life, the cessation of ordering - life being self-ordering, self-sustaining, self-replicating order, not one dependent on random chance (natural selection) - so too is male and female mutually dependent concepts.

Male/female only make sense in relation to each other, as both participate in a reproductive method....we call it heterosexuality.
Human is a term referring to a category of reproductive possibility.
My future, and present, is dependent on other humans because without this sexual promise I lose possibility. The probability of me passing on me genes, or alleviating my sexual need, dwindles to a mere possibility.

Because ses, as a reproductive method, evolves after other reproductive methods, it msut also evolve the mechanisms to deal with already evolved strategies which inhibit its process.
For example, the fight/flight mechanism, the most primal (re)action to the threatening unknown, must be dealt with i heterosexual reproduction is to take place.
The first step, therefore, is a preliminary phase, one we can witness in species such as bears, tigers...and so on. non-social, mammals, with large brains.

What is this first evolutionary step towards the human condition?
A seasonal madness...a rut.
The organism abandons its survival and is taken over by a form of inebriation...chemically induced. Sometimes this result sin its death.

Then the hormones subside and it returns too its normal, solitary, nature.

But what of species that participate in cooperative proximity all year round?
In this case this seasonal madness, had to be elongated, prolonged, so as to create codependency.
The other gives as a fix, a chemical jolt of inebriation.
Also, amongst such species the sexual season is also, sometimes, prolonged...all year round.
The fight/flight must be controlled constantly...and not always successfully.

Love is the word for the drug.
I repeat...in my view it is a sophistication of the feeding process, that madness of feeding - feeding frenzy.
Need unleashed as gluttony.
It then morphs into what we call lust...the sexual frenzy which makes heterosexual reproduction possible, even for non-social organisms.
It also slowly acquires a symbolic factor...a dominance stance.
To penetrate, is to stand above, to enter the other's most private space.
The practice places a heavier burden, a greater risk, upon the female.

This need to gain trust, through habituation, is part of the mating process....mating, even in non-social species, continues for days.
Then the two separate and go their own way.

With social species this proximity, habituation crates a consistent need to reaffirm trust...done by mock copulation, grooming and so on. The practice placates the fight/flight mechanism, the threat of the alien otherness.
This, in humans, we call socializing.
We gather in select groups reaffirming our place within them and reestablishing trust.
We are comforted by this...and we need it consistently.
This too is a form of social ordering. We find it beautiful because it is ordering, no matter our position within it.
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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyFri Mar 14, 2014 10:54 am

Attraction to otherness does not follow a universal rule.
There are two different approaches, determined by the individual's essence, his character, his masculine/feminine nature.

In love, one is either attracted to what reminds one of self....a reaffirmation of self via the other....or one ls attracted to what one lacks, a desire to complete, to compensate for one's own deficiencies.
A combination of the two, with one disposition dominating, is the rule.

When one likes one's self, one wishes to find others who remind him of himself - agape, friendship, kinship, family, blood.
The racial debate has a place here.
When one dislikes himself one seeks for the different, something not in his experience, something exotic, hoping to find the element that is missing, and which he cannot find in those that remind him of himself - erotic, the exotic, the other than, the one with a different promise, the alien.

In the context of art...the artist who loves self, and existence...the past that makes him as he is, will try to represent it, accentuate its elements, freeze its order into a static form so as to enjoy watching its passing beauty.
An artist governed by nihilistic self-hatred, nature hatred, will seek to represent the world as ugliness, the chaos, the confusion....
He will want to hide behind chaos, lose himself in it...escaping the cost of need/suffering, the price of beauty, symmetry ordering.

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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyFri Mar 14, 2014 11:38 am

Existence = suffering.

Not so bleak after all.

What is rare?
Order.
What is life?
Ordering.

Why does it feels need/suffering?
Because it is never complete, never absolute. The absolute is missing.
Life is the towards completion...not being, but Becoming.
To move towards this completion requires effort.
First one must maintain one's place, preserve what one has...then one must use the excess energies to grow, to advance, to move towards, or upwards.

This increases need/suffering, proportionally.

Ergo, one feels temporal attrition, this increasing entropy, as one attempts to remain ordering.
then one increases it by striving to increase this ordering.
Strength is a measure of how much of this one can endure.

Comfort is a state where one's aggregate energies suffice to meet the immediate needs of the organism.
Animals, lower level consciousness, is happy in this state.

Man is not, why?
Because man's imagination, his ability to perceive more than shallow immediacy, and to the extent that he can, increases his needs.
His contentment in the present is burdened with an awareness that it is short-lived.
He has a broader, deeper perceptual-event-horizon...an animal has a shallow one, relatively speaking.

So simple minds are more easily satiated with momentary gratification, with immediacy.

Cowardice can also shrink one's awareness when the mind is unable to cope with what it perceives.
It is a form of self-censorship, or self-lobotomizing...forgetfulness.
The practice of double standards, and selective reasoning, compartmentalization, and/or schizophrenia, is a method of reducing perception in some areas of existence, while maintaining them in others.

Positive concepts always require effort, if they are honest.
Pleasure is a positive, as it negates the sensation of need/suffering.
The Nihilistic mind revels in this inversion.
It wants to remain conscious yet also do away with the price of consciousness.
It wants to exist, yet do away with the experience of existing.

It accomplishes this by a self-hypnosis, a linguistic twist of terms.
Pleasure, though ephemeral and rare, the exception to the rule, is now a universal...just as Love becomes a God, a Holy emotion.

Sheltering create a space within which such contrivances can maintain themselves, because the real world is kept outside its premises.
The herd psychology.
To exist within human reality...to equate the world of man with the world at large...to consider nature the park, human ethos the universal standard.

the ease with which basic needs are satisfied within this manmade reality - for a price of course - makes the participants forget about the austerity and "cruelty" of nature.
This is also called institutionalization. To live within the premises of manmade structures, where the world is kept at a distance, and every perception is dominated by human artifices....for so long that one forgets about the real world.
Lethe...forgetfulness...a state of self-narcosis.
An immersion into materialism, hedonism, artificial realities.

The outcome is retardation, atrophy, stagnation.
In time the mind cannot exist outside of the contrivances, it has become dependent, institutionalized.

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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyFri Mar 14, 2014 12:03 pm

With the inversion of reality, which is the Nihilistic methodology, all is turned on its head...despite perceptions.


Pleasure becomes the reason for existence, not the sensation of fulfilling lack.

That would be like claiming that life is the reason for the universe, for consciousness, rather than consciousness being a tool of life within a universe of lacking life.

The human brain places itself at the center of the world...and words are its new phenomena.
Not that the noumenon is a representation of the phenomenon, or that need is the experience of reality, but that the opposite is fact.
Evil, suffering, become the human addition and the universe becomes the overflowing benevolence, the hedonistic, amusement park that man enters to spoil.
By making man the source of suffering, evil, bad things, man makes the correction, the escape easy. All he needs to do is deal with the known, himself, whereas if lack, need/suffering, were the experience of reality, then correcting it would require monumental effort, with an uncertain, if not inevitable, outcome.

Christians do so by making the world an illusion. Evil a trick. The world is benevolent, god's live.
the threat of the unknown real is made known. All ti takes is surrender, a change of mind, a twisting of perception...an inversion.
For Christians the more real reality, is in the "Beyond".
Death is, in theory, a gateway to a more profound life...the anxiety is escaped. The inversion makes death desirable...so much so that the dogma must make suicide a sin.

Secular Humanism places the escape in the future. All ti requires is a change of perspective - prescriptivism enters as the savior. It is immanent, on its way...all it takes is a rejection of the perceived.
This is the sacrifice that proves worthiness....an inversion of perceiving. What is experienced is a lie...it only requires changing your views.

Persepctivism loses its original meaning: the admittance that all men, all life, is limited in its conceptions and its faith is determined by this limitation.
Now it is twisted into a saving grace.
All is benevolent, loving, pleasure...the universe created, it exists, with man's pleasure in mind.
Suffering is what man suffers when he does not open himself to this "reality".

All is "beautiful" there is no self-serving, motive, no reactive component...it is only a matter of perspective.
Uniformity is achieved in a reality which is considered illusion.
Nothing that happens here matters, because the standards lays outside the premises one percussive.
Growth does not require agon, effort, struggle, because this only increases suffering...all it takes is giving-in, abandonment, surrender.

Test the hypothesis that the universe is about pleasing man.
Lies down...and do not move for as long as you can.
Theoretically pleasure would come to you....automatically.

But, instead, need/suffering increases...forcing you to act, to go seek pa fulfillment, a satisfaction.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] of positive/negative.

Positive - that which requires effort, struggle, action, to come about and to maintain itself.
Negative - that which requires no effort, no action, happens no matter what...effortlessly.

Positive = Life, Light, Consciousness, Pleasure, Heat, Order....
Negative = Death (non-life), Dark, Unconsciousness, Need/suffering, Cold, Disorder/Randomness/Entropy...



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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyFri Mar 14, 2014 12:13 pm

Sheltering....cocooning, detachment from reality....institutionalization....domestication.

An absence of stress atrophies the organism...stress forces a do-or-die...which increases power by first breaking the order that is forming...confronting its stability.
Sheltering is the intervention of a superior power, lending a hand, if you will.
The organism atrophies, like a muscle atrophies when not stressed by mass.

As it atrophies it becomes increasingly unable to exit within the helping hand.
Its survival, now, goes through a proxy. The intervening power becomes a necessary part of its self-organizing.

A child lives in such a stage...so to infants in all large-brained species. the parent is the intervening power....and if it does not pull back gradually (weaning) the infant never matures.
Maturity is the hardening of the delicate organism by coming into contact with an indifferent, threatening reality.

For a retarded I development mind, the world under artificial circumstances IS the real. The fridge is magically overflowing with free nutrients, the roof is always fixed, protecting it from the elements, the doors and walls and windows, keep the alien other outside....guarding it is the caring, benevolent power, which has its own motives for doing so.
For the child the world is fun, a play time...benevolent. It explores it without care....carelessly.

The universe is all about its pleasure, because it has never faces the indifference yet.
Everything is wonderful, full of wonder, because someone it standing in the way of the "bad" elements.
A child kept in this state for a prolonged time loses its capacity to outgrow this stage...it is stunted. For it the world is happy, it cares for it, it loves it....it finds it valuable.
All comes easy...
Air, food, water, shelter, warmth, light, love...

Entitlement...the child expects things to remain so.
It deserves it....the universe, the world is its playpen. nothing is cruel...a lion is a giant pussy-cat...a beautiful beast.
A bear is teddy-bear.

The world overflows with energies...because it hasn't had to pay for any of it.
It's all positive towards it and its existence.

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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyFri Mar 14, 2014 12:22 pm

Buddhism in relation to Hinduism, in the east, has become, for the western man, what Christianity was in relation to Judaism.

Buddhism dealt with the constriction of Aryan Hinduism and its caste system.... Christianity deal with the exclusivity of the Jewish identity.

In the west it has become another way to annul reality...
Buddhism changed, over time, when it came into contact with Judeo-Christian man.
It was adjusted to the western presuppositions.

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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyFri Mar 14, 2014 1:21 pm

touched by the muse last night, eh?
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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyFri Mar 14, 2014 5:07 pm

Quote :

the ease with which basic needs are satisfied within this manmade reality - for a price of course - makes the participants forget about the austerity and "cruelty" of nature.
This is also called institutionalization. To live within the premises of manmade structures, where the world is kept at a distance, and every perception is dominated by human artifices....for so long that one forgets about the real world.
Lethe...forgetfulness...a state of self-narcosis.
An immersion into materialism, hedonism, artificial realities.

The outcome is retardation, atrophy, stagnation.
In time the mind cannot exist outside of the contrivances, it has become dependent, institutionalized.


You have no food and you suffer.
You obtain a pot of porridge and you satiate your hunger. You no longer suffer.
You obtain a pot of slow simmered beef and barley soup and you satiate your hunger with greater delight.
You obtain a pot of porridge and you suffer.
Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyFri Mar 14, 2014 6:16 pm

Might I say, though, this has little to do with aesthetics.
The essence of aesthetic perception is pleasure, but not all pleasures are aesthetic.
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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyMon Mar 17, 2014 3:11 pm

You sense with your eyes, but do you feel with them?
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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyMon Mar 17, 2014 4:23 pm

phoneutria wrote:



You have no food and you suffer.
You obtain a pot of porridge and you satiate your hunger. You no longer suffer.
You obtain a pot of slow simmered beef and barley soup and you satiate your hunger with greater delight.
You obtain a pot of porridge and you suffer.
Wink
There's only so much I can do with your thickness, my sweet.

If the idea of a stomach and why it evolves, escapes you, then perhaps a hint:

It stores nutrients to feed a constant need.
The need does not disappear with satiation...it drops beneath the level of consciousness...and another takes its place.
Once the store is empty it rises again.....

Keep smiling sweets....and never, ever thing....emote.

And yes I feel with my eyes.
I'm feeling the words right now.

Isn't there a park you and your friends can go play in?

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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyMon Mar 17, 2014 11:40 pm

Old man, my example was to demonstrate that satiation does not lead to stagnation.

How do these words feel on your eyes? Warm, rough, tasty?
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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyTue Mar 18, 2014 6:32 am

phoneutria wrote:
Old man, my example was to demonstrate that satiation  does not lead to stagnation.

How do these words feel on your eyes? Warm, rough, tasty?
Old woman, then you have no clue what evolution is about.

No pain....no gain.

If the belly is full the hunter doesn't hunt.
Hunger pushes him to go out there, innovate new methods for hunting, trying to understand his prey.

Old woman, go back to bed.

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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyTue Mar 18, 2014 8:01 am

The hunter doesn't necessarily have the conscious intent of avoiding stagnation for himself and his progeny. One who does consciously have that intent, yet has no difficulty obtaining necessities such as food, will seek difficulties at the potential cost of the continued ease of obtaining those necessities. For those people without many connections it is easy to do so in the short term, it involves little more than going an unexpected direction towards what would initially seem to be a new frontier. But, in time, with the actual existence of frontiers mostly lacking, it becomes very difficult. It becomes suffocating.
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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyTue Mar 18, 2014 9:15 am

A primitive consciousness only feels lack as need/suffering.
A mind that can project, anticipate, prepare, can feel ti as a 'yet to be'.

In an age of immediate gratification, spontaneity, living in the moment, and in a culture of disposability, superfluousness, excess, the average imbecile believes that filling the belly, having an orgasm, drinking water, has eradicated the need.
For a simpleton, existing within a shallow temporal-event-horizon, all is immediate.

It has access to oxygen, so it thinks that being oxygenated, the need itself, is gone.
It has an evolved storage organ, the stomach, which it fills, allowing its body to continuously draw nutrients, energies, form it...and it begins to believe that by filling the belly it has eliminated the need.
In its hedonistic condition it begins to believe the universe is in existence for its pleasure....that there is a god watching over it, and cares for it.


Simple fact, though simpletons cannot grasp it:
Need/suffering is lowered to below consciousness, with satiation. This makes the brain an organ dealing with need/suffering.
All human actions are based no a need...preventing a coming suffering.

When one need is abated, when it is pushed down to below a pressing state, another need takes its place.
This drop, if it is sudden, is what we experience as a sudden rush, a relief....ecstasy, orgasm.
the need is not erased, it is decreased to a point when it does not require attention, and so the mind turns away form it....and then it begins to increase, in time, until it reaches a level where it forces the mind to pay attention. if the mind cannot deal with it it continues to increase reaching a level of discomfort we call "pain/suffering."

Pleasure is a negation of the perception of existence.
Life, conscious awareness of existing, is a positive. It requires constant energies.
It acts constantly dealing with needs.
Need is the mother of all activities directed by the will.It can also be considered the mothr of ALL activities, all (inter)activities as what is absent is precisely the absolute.
From a human perspective the universe is lacking....and this lacking is what man feels, senses, in himself as part of existence, as need/suffering.

One more fuckin' time:

A simple test.
Lie down and do nothing.
Do not act.
If the universe cares about your pleasure then ti will come to you.
What comes instead?
Yes, discomfort, need, suffering.

The continuum is a towards randomness, towards increasing entropy....which means away form order, away from the near absolute we now call God or Big bang, or past.
Therefore, all order, life being a form of ordering, is resisting disordering.
It must struggle, fight, resist....AGON!!!!

What we call comfort is when the energies an organism requires to self-maintain suffice.
The brain is released form its job, and then suffers boredom....but is comfortable physically.
Leisure becomes the bane of excess mental energies....also produced by higher intelligence.
The need now becomes existential. the mind seeks a reason, a purpose, to exist.

It turns on itself.
This is the stage of nihilistic despair...from where creativity emerges.
But not all brains are created equal. for some this becomes suicidal, ennui becoming a questioning of one's own existence.
Because all is easy, the mind seeks a heightened experience...all must be raised in volume,. Hyperbole, pornography pop-art...all inflated reality trying to deal with existential anxiety, produced by superfluous environments.
Subtlety does not suffice. the brain has become numb to nuances, to the beneath a certain level of perception, because ease has made it dull.



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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyTue Mar 18, 2014 9:45 am

Given my [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] of positive/negative, which would someone consider the norm?

One demands effort to come about and to continue, wheres the other happens with no effort....naturally.
Naturally being a from order (symmetry, unity, predictability, patterns) towards disorder (randomness, chaos).
Both 'from' and 'to' indicating a near absolute, not an absolute, because an absolute would mean an end.

Beauty, physical symmetry, indicated a healthy past, an inherited higher order...because order requires effort to come about...and beauty in the erotic sense, requires effort.
Beauty indicates excess energies, inherited as healthier genes.

But it does not guarantee their continuance.
Genes indicate a superior potential.
If this potential, because of the ease it offers to the inheritor, is not maintained, cultivated, or increased, then the inheritor falls into decay.
Symmetry increases over generations.
But decay increases faster, as disorder comes without effort.
To build a muscle one must stress it, damage it, so that it heals stronger, bigger.
If you rest on the size you have, it atrophies.
You lose what you had faster than it took to gain it.

Comfort as it relates to strength.

Strength, I repeat for the umpteenth time, is a measure of weakness.
All values judgments are comparisons. So strength is a value judgment comparing A with B.
It's a relationship (master/slave)...superior/inferior.

What does strength indicate?
Access to superior energies.

Strength can endure more need/suffering/pain because the aggregate energies at its disposal are superior to those of a weaker person.
What, for a weak person, is unbearable, for a strong one is comfortable.

Ergo, to increase comfort increase endurance...both physical and mental.

To be given excess energies, or to be sheltered from stresses where even your weaker constitution suffices to become comfortable, is to condemn the individual to slow atrophy, decaying.
Having no experience with discomfort, existence, stress, need/suffering, the individual is affected by the slightest degree of it.

Its sense of immediacy becomes shallower and shallower, reaching the point where instant relief, immediate gratification is the only comfortable condition for it.
Like a drug addict it is now dependent, unable to function freely, in relation to an other.


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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyTue Mar 18, 2014 11:10 am

Satyr wrote:
phoneutria wrote:
Old man, my example was to demonstrate that satiation  does not lead to stagnation.

How do these words feel on your eyes? Warm, rough, tasty?
Old woman, then you have no clue what evolution is about.

No pain....no gain.

If the belly is full the hunter doesn't hunt.
Hunger pushes him to go out there, innovate new methods for hunting, trying to understand his prey.

Old woman, go back to bed.

A bear at the peak of salmon season only eats caviar Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyTue Mar 18, 2014 11:15 am

Can we go back to the eyes?

All you can feel with your eyes, physically, are sensations responsible for keeping them whole. Hurts if you poke, itches if it gets dry.
Looking at something beautiful does not give you pleasure on/in your physical eyes. The feeling is felt... elsewhere.

Does that help?
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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyTue Mar 18, 2014 11:23 am

old man wrote:
All human actions are based no a need...preventing a coming suffering.

And what is a refined mind to do once all physical needs are plentifully satiated?
Create some artificial suffering in order to avoid stagnation, according to your logic?

Insight into old man's psyque here, ladies and gents.
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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyTue Mar 18, 2014 11:33 am

old hag wrote:


A bear at the peak of salmon season only eats caviar Wink
You wink, to hide your emptiness of mind.

What does that even mean, dear?

It also eats fish poo.

old hag wrote:
Can we go back to the eyes?

All you can feel with your eyes, physically, are sensations responsible for keeping them whole. Hurts if you poke, itches if it gets dry.
Looking at something beautiful does not give you pleasure on/in your physical eyes. The feeling is felt... elsewhere.

Does that help?
You use words like a bovine in a glass factory.

The eyes feel nothing, dear.
The fingers feel nothing.

They receive stimuli.
The stimuli are felt via a medium...air, electromagnetism, light...
The brain, the hub of the neural network, interprets the stimuli, which are transmitted to it by converting them, translating them, into a bio-electric code.

The brain can, if it is sophisticated, translate these into abstractions, and in turn into words.

What you "feel" dear is of your own making.
You relate.
If the relationship is unbalanced you feel uncomfortable.
If you gain more than you lose, from the relationship, you feel comfortable.

The brain is a reactive, interpreting, organ.

It cannot translate what it cannot find pattern in...or what is beneath its perceptual acuity.  
It translates the absence of pressing need as comfort....and pressing need as pain/suffering.
It translates the absence of an absolute, as need.
It translates the sensation of entropy as need.
It feeeeeels it as need.

The same way you calling me old man hurts me.
Know what's funny granny?
That getting old is so hurtful to you, and women in general....and less so for men, and particularly I.

Recap....for ganny...because she's hard of hearing:

MEDIUM (air, electricity, light, some form of energy), do ya hear me GRANN?...interacts with object (phenomenon)....which then interacts with sense organ...which then transmits stimuli to brain (translating stimuli into neural pulse)....which then translates it into feeling, sensation (abstracts it into image, form, color hardness softness etc. - a NOUMENON).
Phenomenon, via a medium translated into a Noumenon...and words symbolize a Noumenon.  
DID YOU GET THAT GRANDMA!!!!!!


If the word does not refer to a phenomenon, but back to another mental abstraction, another noumenon, then noumenon refers back to noumenon, creating a self-referential loop...Solipsism.
Sheltering produces this looping, as a method of crowd control.
The degree to which the mental abstraction refers to the phenomenon determines the mind's OBJECTIVITY grandma!!!!
in the wild it also determines survival...but in sheltering environments, manmade ones, there is no severe cost to being obtuse, and self-referential and blind to the phenomenon....you can even live in your head.
So subjectivity increases exponentially, creating stupidity....a population living in delusion. a Herd easily manipulated and exploited.

In time, the herd loses it ability o cope with the perceived...so it prefers the abstractions, because they are more easily manipulated by its will. They become engrossed in fantasy, the fantastic...in delusion and illusion.
They are not domesticated....they produce, so as to remain comfortably numb  
A man older than I sings...HA!!!


Here is the old hag playing to the crowd.
It's a subtle plea for help.

old hag wrote:
And what is a refined mind to do once all physical needs are plentifully satiated?
I've answered this...but in your old age, you are going blind and deaf.
Sorry...can't scream loud enough for ya.
Turn on the hearing aid...get your glasses...do something.

old hag wrote:
Create some artificial suffering in order to avoid stagnation, according to your logic?
You'll have to read Schopenhauer, granny.

I repeat things and still idiots remain in the dark.

There is no complete satiation, you old hag.
There is only momentary relief, a brief respite.

Old hag...listen up:
When all physical needs are lowered to beneath consciousness (highly unlikely)....not eliminated but DECREASED GRANNY!!!!
....then ennui ensues.
Stress <> Ennui
The human condition.

The brain, you old hag, evolved within austere environments.
It's job is to deal with needs.

When it is freed from this role - to whatever degree it is - it turns on itself.
Two things happen.
If the individual organism is a simpleton, like you, then it seeks constant distractions....hedonism, materialism, love inebriation, chemical joys....
The resentiment another old man spoke about...Nietzsche, you dumb old hag!
Are you still with me granny?!!!!

It may even become suicidal, questioning its own existence when it is free.
Read Sartre, granny...a poor man's Heidegger, a female's choice.

This is why pop-culture flourishes in sheltering environments.
And it is always loud, in your face, obscene....to get through the masses of thickness.

The released energies must be directed productively (work ethos), or made harmless, by distracting them (porn, music, movies, drugs, alcohol, computer gaming, "Entertaining ourselves to Death" - Postman).  

The bored out of their minds simpletons, having no outlet, no focus for their mental energies, and no creativity to think outside the primal, outside the socioeconomic memetic box, become obsessed with hedonism....pleasure, distractions, escapes, religion...or become adrenaline junkies...or must find something revved up to a level they can feel in their inebriated numbness.  

In more sophisticated minds creativity begins.
As in leisure leads to creativity, art.

This too is a product of need.

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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyTue Mar 18, 2014 12:12 pm

Sheesh   
Rolling Eyes 
Talking to old women is more difficult that talking to young girls.

No matter how many times you repeat things they just cannot understand...and then, THEN!! .... they complain about you repeating things for them.
"I can hear, ya know...I ain't deaf!!"
 Twisted Evil 

What I enjoy most about such exchanges is that the other, in his/her desperation to "get under my skin" samples in himself/herself what is most hurtful to them ...and projects it.

Like with this old hag and her "old man" ploy.

She's delivering, to me, her own anxieties.
I now know growing old is, for her, something she cannot deal with.
She assumes I am the same way, having nothing to contradict her.
The notion of not feeling anxious about growing old and dying being something that does not compute, in her.

To know other is to first know thyself.
But, to escape the trap of projecting what is most true about you, corrupting your understanding, a distancing is required.
One samples what one was like, what one has experienced, but is no longer fact, what one has overcome.....and by doing this one achieves understanding of otherness.
To become more objective one must take one's immediate self out of the projection. One (re)cognizes self in otherness, even if this is something in his past.
Now projection is detached from the mind evaluating the other.

If not, then one is delivering himself to other, via this projection.
If detachment, objectification, distancing, has not taken place - overcoming - then one is simply transferring self, in the immediate, to otherness....reflecting self against the unknown other.
Consciousness demands a detachment....a separation. the more severe, the more detachment achieved the more clarity is achieved...and so isolation is its price ---- existential solitude.  

So, we all project...some of us simply cannot take ourselves out of the projections.
And what winds-up happening is that we project upon the other what is most true about ourselves.
We expose ourselves immediately.  

The majority know this on an intuitive level...and this is why they take it for granted that all are projecting as they are.
They have no experience with detachment, with analysis void of personal gratification.
All must be pleasing...some go so far as to claim the universe, existence, is all about their pleasure...that need/suffering is an illusion, or a product of man's mistake.

The Christians take it a step further.
Sin enters the world with man.
A way out is...DEATH.

Do you think secular humanism has outgrown this Judeo-Christian inheritance?

Listen to them talk about need/suffering, as if man invents it and is guilty of it....not that it is the experience of existing.
Listen to them talk about justice and suffering.
Listen to them talk about the future, the coming beyond, the immanent....Utopia, instead of Paradise.
No need to die and go to heaven...you can become brain-dead, meditate out of existence, numb yourself with the "right" perspective - the "ought".  

Listen to them talk about uniformity, equality, justice....humanity.
The words have changed, updated, but the concepts, they refer to (self-referential) remain the same: Nihilism that began with a "the meek shall inherit the earth".
The cult of victim-hood.

Only in this age would an Empire, a Super Power pretend to be, still, a victim....to be fighting against weakness that threatens it.

Pagans displayed power through generosity - read Battail's The Accursed Share.
This is miserly psychology...the paradox of Judaism.
To achieve power by seducing weakness, and then remain the eternal victim.
To be rich and want more....and more.
Nothing is enough.
To claim satiation and still want more satisfaction.

Display of power through hording.

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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyTue Mar 18, 2014 2:09 pm

try explaining higher senses to a brute...
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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyTue Mar 18, 2014 2:13 pm

sigh... tell ya what

Think about the difference between an eye and a finger.
You know, go home... have a warm glass of milk, put your teeth away... sleep on it.
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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyTue Mar 18, 2014 4:35 pm

phoneutria wrote:
try explaining higher senses to a brute...
I know dear....
That's why I don't waste my time on you.

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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyTue Mar 18, 2014 4:44 pm

right... you made this thread for yourself
Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyTue Mar 18, 2014 4:48 pm

I made this thread for those like me....and  not you.
You are not the center of the universe.
It does not conform to your tastes.

The perception of "higher" and "lower" aesthetic value is the perception of a higher/lower form of order.
You exist in uniformity.
To appreciate what is higher you require a higher mind.
You have shown no indication of it...though you wish you could discuss philosophy, without your personal interests interfering.

A higher acuity, and objectivity, can appreciate a higher aesthetic.
You are a perspectivist.

According to you man does not discover beauty....he convinces himself of it....he manufactures it, he simply believes in it.
Is art man imitating nature, or is art imitating art....looooopy-loop.
See pop-art.

Move on dear.
Find a bum...give him a blowjob.
Appreciate his beauty.
Pass wind....revel in the acoustics, then smell the prettiness.

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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyTue Mar 18, 2014 5:06 pm

Satyr wrote:
I made this thread for those like me....and  not you.

Maybe not for me, but I certainly inspired it Smile

Quote :

You are not the center of the universe.
It does not conform to your tastes.

I don't have any ambition. I am satisfied in being the center of my own existence.

Quote :

The perception of "higher" and "lower" aesthetic value is the perception of a higher/lower form of order.
No such thing. "Higher" senses are aesthetic, "lower" ones aren't
(I put higher and lower in quotes because I don't mean those words to be pejorative)

Quote :

You exist in uniformity.
To appreciate what is higher you require a higher mind.

If by "higher", you mean a mind attuned to aesthetic values, it would seem that I have the upper hand, since you don't seem to even know what it is.

Quote :

You have shown no indication of it...though you wish you could discuss philosophy, without your personal interests interfering.

I do not wish to discuss philosophy. I wish to eat.
Unfortunately, none to be had in these parts.
I guess I will eat one of these skinny little things hanging about. Easy prey.

Quote :

A higher acuity, and objectivity, can appreciate a higher aesthetic.
You are a perspectivist.

Dear, there can be no discussion of aesthetics without the concept of taste.
I know, it hurts ya.

Quote :

According to you man does not discover beauty....he convinces himself of it....he manufactures it, he simply believes in it.

My man? Have I gone blackout-shopping again?

Quote :

Is art man imitating nature, or is art imitating art....looooopy-loop.
See pop-art.

A better question: must it?

Quote :

Move on dear.
Find a bum...give him a blowjob.
Appreciate his beauty.

Well, is he an asshole? I hear that is all that matters to women.

Quote :
Pass wind....revel in the acoustics, then smell the prettiness.

Some satiate themselves in eating porridge and smelling their own farts. Pardon if I don't partake. I am a woman of refined taste Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Aesthetics Aesthetics EmptyTue Mar 18, 2014 7:45 pm

Taste, sweetie, has been explored already.

Discriminating tastes are higher tastes. A recognition of subtle patterns...numbskulls cannot discern.
It's about a subtler pattern been perceived, when idiots, like you, only see the uniformity, the obvious.

Move on dear.
No food for a bug hear.

Do ya swallow, or do you only spit?

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