I'm gonna ask this again: "And do you think that one race has a lock on everything valuable?" Why did you ask this question and where were you intending to go with the answer? Go both routes. Assume I answered both yes and no. Show me both sides of the coin you were trying to sell me.
Ultimately, it's a question about what you value. If I didn't think there's a possibility for a legitimate answer on either side of the question, then I wouldn't have asked it. I ask questions with the possibility of an interesting answer---one that sheds light on what's actually valuable.
Here's what someone might say who answered 'yes' to the question...
Suppose someone has one paramount value. They value intelligence more than anything else. Intelligence would be their criteria for making judgments in any decision-making process. That's not an absurd proposition on its face. It's simply value monism. Suppose also that they measured intelligence by IQ levels. (That's not an absurd criteria, either). That person could legitimately say that some race (with the highest IQ levels) has a lock on what is valuable.
The statement they've made is one about averages---not individuals. Since I am a race realist, I will recognize that different races perform unequally on standardized IQ tests, for reasons that are at least partly genetic.
The person who answered 'yes' isn't saying that any given Ashkenazi Jew is smarter (by IQ) than any given black person---only stated what the averages are. That's not Nazism, or racial supremacy, or any other emotional label you want to attach to it to make the issue personal, like the bitch that you are. A racial supremacist, I assume, thinks that members of a given race are inherently better than members of another. And certainly that was what Nazis thought with respect to Jews.
Recognize that nothing such a person---who answered 'yes' to the question---has laid claim to is an absurd proposition on its face. Ultimately, I don't agree with any of the propositions that person will have laid claim to, but they are certainly not absurd on their face. Hence, it's an interesting question to ask and topic to pursue.
Recognize also that it is emotional hypocrisy that is leading you to point fingers and make accusations about personal motives when faced with a pretty straightforward question. 90% of your post was emotional projections and garbage speculations about ulterior motives.
If you want my answers as to why I disagree, or what I think, you can ask. I'm pretty sure I've already said or implied what my answer for the other side of the question would be...
Quote :
From your example, you're getting a lot of unfit hybrids who will be a burden on the society in general, with a small minority of individuals with the desired traits. Meaning that you'd need to produce several generations of such hybrids via selective breeding, culling the ones with undesirable traits until you had a pure strain that would only produce those desired traits and retained no recessive genes from it's imperfect ancestry.
If you have some virtues, and some flaws, and you mate with someone who has some virtues, and some flaws---you may get offspring that assemble all of the flaws, or some diluted virtues, and none of the good. So what? What is the issue? I would have no problem loving and caring for someone who I saw myself reflected in---even if they reflected my flaws, and the flaws of the partner I valued. On the other hand, you may give the world someone who assembles a broader range of virtues from a broader line that they wouldn’t otherwise have been capable of. And that would be a gift, wouldn't it?
Only a psychotic retard like you would think that anything I've said has anything to do with culling unfit people, or anything like that.
I'm reminded of how the aristocracy selects it's marriage partners. They don't follow animal instincts, but instead take careful consideration of a candidates ancestry and personal history to determine whether they are suitable.
It seems to me that basing a family around transient chemical inebriation is not gonna work out well, even if it did make you possible in the first place.
what was the specific trait they were trying to breed? oh yes, right, territory acquisition. keeping it in the family
Cross-breeding would destroy all qualities in individuals which are recessive (not dominant, requires both alleles to affect the phenotype). Those recessive genes had to go through a long process of selection to become so wide-spread within a population, as to be found on both alleles, as to change the phenotype.
A little hard science, shall we? As a matter of fact, us imperfect animals, are festering with very bad recessive traits. I'll go as far as to say that, as the marvelous roulette of cosmos would wish, for each recessive trait that makes us more fit for this here environment, there are several others that we do not like no no. You could be sitting in a genetic dead end right now, and not even know it.
Bad dominant traits are quickly removed from the pool. Those phenotipes tend to not stick around for very long. Too bad, I just started a pot of tea.
Recessives, though, those pesky little guests. How should we go about retaining those rare, desirable ones, while at the same time removing the bad ones? We can't.
Sorry chap, you gots ta take the good with the bad on this one.
... HOWEVER... It turns out that if you try times enough, you can spin that cosmic roulette and get something pretty amazing. A purely recessive, highly fit... beautiful, strong, smart, blonde lil sexy devil. Why shouldn't we just keep making those?! Let's get rid of all the other ones. This is evolution here, folks! Sparkling new and improved Mankind 2.0!
Well, let me tell ya why. Because highly fit populations thrive only while the conditions for which they are fit exist. Were this pretty little rock we're sitting on an immutable paradise, we'd be set. As it turns out, it's not. Make us an entire population of beautiful, smart, narrow pool clones, then watch it be wiped out in the next bottleneck.
We need variety because it makes us resilient as a species.
If you have some virtues, and some flaws, and you mate with someone who has some virtues, and some flaws---you may get offspring that assemble all of the flaws, or some diluted virtues, and none of the good. So what? What is the issue? I would have no problem loving and caring for someone who I saw myself reflected in---even if they reflected my flaws, and the flaws of the partner I valued. On the other hand, you may give the world someone who assembles a broader range of virtues from a broader line that they wouldn’t otherwise have been capable of. And that would be a gift, wouldn't it?
So you acknowledge that cross breeding would randomize the genetics of the population. Inserting vast amounts of recessive genes which are not visible in the phenotype. Which means, that if a phenotypically healthy person breeds with a second phenotypically healthy person that the results will be all over the place. Due to many genes involved with diseases or of low quality being hidden in the gene pool of the cross-breed, but not phenotypically visible. Or if this abstract universal genetic phenomenon is not enough - You know that cross-breeds among dogs are very expensive? It's because a lot of them have to be removed due to undesired, unhealthy results. And if someone would want to establish a stable new breed of dogs then it would require many, many generations and man-made selection to stabilize the genetics enough to produce consistent healthy results in offspring.
You are saying fuck the genetic integrity of a population. If someone has individual values and finds certain traits valuable then let that person cross-breed, it's a free society after all. Well, a society which does not try to protect its genetic integrity will all go up in flames, in a randomized pool of unpredictable breeding results. Because guess what, your notion of what is valuable in cross-breeds may be different for someone else. And everybody's gonna participate, democratically and fuck up each others goals in what they try to establish. After all we are not talking about producing individual genetically engineered clones. Or maybe you are. But why would you talk about cross-breeds then?
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 37248 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
Aaaah, romance. To remain eternally young, carefree,, "innocent". To lose yourself in the other's eyes, and feel like this will last forever. To abandon yourself to the moment, to every moment, to any moment.
A wrong judgment, in nature, is followed by a lifetime of pain...or immediate death. Today...no big deal. A broken heart, a lesson learned, a new love to enjoy. If only we could live, for eternity, under the protective stare of a benevolent parent, making sure no stupid choice is punished. And how easily the young, and only mentally childish, fall in and....out of love. How easily then abandon themselves to circumstance....'cause, no big deal. Fuck another....live a bit....enjoy. Zero consequences....or none to worry about.
One year declaring their undying fidelity, the next year feeling like the other has changed...or maybe the veil of stupidity has ripped a bit, letting in some painful, to near-blind eyes, light into the sparkling utopia.
In nature a bond was strengthened through shared dangers, faced and overcome. Today a visit to the supermarket might cause an unbridgeable rift.
In nature the environment selected genes...not the individuals....not humans. Humans simply made choices trying to adhere to the environment's judgments. Their criteria changed as environments changed. Natural environments do not change as quickly as human ones. Part of the problem. Attraction wasn't lucid, no more than it is conscious when a stupid twat talks about love and romance. Consciousness, after all, demands a certain distance, detachment, objectivity...and these twats are totally engrossed by the sensation of pleasure...the hormonal rush....the infinite "what if"" of romantic idealism....a hedonistic benefit of nihilism. If existence is experienced as need/suffering, then nihilism is pure nirvana/paradise. The inversion felts as ecstasy, like a morphine shot.
In nature eugenics was performed naturally....it is called predation. Disease, predators, bad luck, a sudden environmental shift, infertility, ugliness, lameness, stupidity, a broken bone, a malformed kidney...a meteorite. No need for social and conscious control. Individuals acted, made choices, within a given environment....the consequences were the effect of their cause.
This is why promiscuity emerged. The dice rolled over and over again, until snake-eyes came up, once in how many tries? This is why families had more than 3 children. That...and the severity of living in austere environments.
A retarded bull doesn't know why he likes a female, why he thinks she's attractive...he only gets a boner. It's a clue. He acts on it, having no mind, and no will, no reason, to not.
A stupid cunt does not know why she falls hopelessly in love (every 7 years or so), why she finds him irresistible, why a year later, in hindsight, she questions why she fell for him and why she changed her mind. She only gets wet, giddy, her heart flutters, and her mouths dries up. Her chest drums, her throat clenches, her legs weaken....her pussy clenches.
The consequences, good and bad, that would be all theirs, are, in this world, intervened upon...by what?
The dum-assed bull, and the stupid cunt, can remain as innocent, carefree, spontaneous as they want. No big cost...a few months of heartache and weeping over a coffee with a friend, about what 'pigs' men are, and what 'whores' females are. Then a period of regrouping...and the cycle begins anew. Life goes on...they tell her. No culling, no severe consequences, no reason to change much...no reason to mature, to start thinking.
In the wild no inferior male would get to mate....and whatever female chose to carry his offspring to term would face the full brunt of the repercussions of this choice...HER choice. No god to save them, no 'get out of jail for free, card, no bankruptcy to reboot stupidity, no abortion....no pill to remain as sluttish as you want....no police to remain as provocative, and sexually aggressive as you wish. Those who chose wrongly, faced the price....ergo bad judgment was culled out of the gene pool.
Today? Today it's sweet, cute, romantic, adorable, your RIGHT!!!!...so wonderful, to fall in love....declare eternal love, have a few kids - with some help from technology, and then a few years later wonder "What was I thinking?"... Pick up the phne, call the friend....cry a bit...and its over.
Every retard out there can sow their seed, play da game, be carefree, exploration, careless, "open" to new experiences (open to new genes), a "risk taker"...because there's no real cost.
Maybe a VD....maybe AIDS...maybe being stuck with a sniveling moron with down syndrome....maybe. Nobody is going to blame you. No, it was his/her fault....or bad luck. God's will? Why adjust your judgments? Why change, when it is its fault the other's fault....never yours? Why change when you are still alive, when nothing you've done is deadly?
And if you raise a retard, because you fucked a retard, then expect...no demand, that the world change their minds.....grow up, be enlightened...all have value, all are beautiful, are deserve.... Demand that the world finds something about this child to love.
Win/Win... Even when you lose, demand that the rules change so that everyone wins.
Why change? Why think? Just....BEeeeeeeeeeeee
Buzz Buzz
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Last edited by Satyr on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
Anfang
Gender : Posts : 3989 Join date : 2013-01-23 Age : 40 Location : Castra Alpine Grug
Well, let me tell ya why. Because highly fit populations thrive only while the conditions for which they are fit exist. Were this pretty little rock we're sitting on an immutable paradise, we'd be set. As it turns out, it's not. Make us an entire population of beautiful, smart, narrow pool clones, then watch it be wiped out in the next bottleneck.
The solution to that problem is not destroying the diversity on the planet via cross-breeding but to establish different breeds which are genetically stable and healthy enough to create their own societies. Why stop at the human race? Create a cross-breeding pool among all primates and perpetually keep it from forming distinctive breeds. Keep it from establishing races and species.
Anfang
Gender : Posts : 3989 Join date : 2013-01-23 Age : 40 Location : Castra Alpine Grug
Sorry chap, you gots ta take the good with the bad on this one.
Where did I say I'd not do that? Qualities are qualities, not about good or bad, the way I used it.
To me it's a balance between likeliness and unlikeliness, with a bias towards likeliness. The angle I use and argue is not necessarily my main motivation.
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 37248 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
Race = inherited pattern....a higher probability (decreased infinite possibility).
What is inherited? = survival traits within natural environments...and alter within manmade environments - the birth of memetics.
Ideals = projected object/objective. What your ideal is determines what traits you consider superior to others. Ideals can be natural or manmade...the latter often detach from reality and become fantastic (utopia/paradise). In nature bad judgments, wrong projections, unfit ideals, perish through culling - they perish if they challenge genetic health. In manmade environments they perish only if they challenge memetic health (stability, internal harmony etc.) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] for natural and artificial/manmade already provided.
In nature every individual choice is accompanied with a severe personal cost/benefit. This is culling. In manmade environments only choices contradicting manmade artifices are culled, or "corrected, chemically castrated, incarcerated,r rehabilitated or expunged.
If the manmade environment is detached from natural processes - in other words the more nihilistic it is - the more corrections are required (sublimation, suppression, repression), and the more dependence they create, along with feminization, domestication, institutionalization, compartmentalization...internal weakness, in relation to the natural environment. I've explored, in brief, the multifaceted effects of all of these in my [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. A genetic distancing, detachment, negation, denial....etc.
Values are now manufactured based on manmade artifices. Man creates superfluity, in austerity natural environments, then invents ownership, making abundance present but unreachable, costly (slavishness), and then manufactures absence so as to direct consumerism, necessitating a certain kind of productivity. Man creates artificial safety, carelessness, in a naturally dangerous, threatening environment, and then manufactures threats, so as to direct fear towards desirable outcomes.
Like man creates dams to block naturally flowing rivers, to direct its energies and manufacture electricity or to hydrate soil that would not be hydrated naturally, and dehydrate parts that would be hydrated. Man conspires, by manipulating natural processes.
With nihilism man totally blocks natural processes, to create artificial stresses.
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Mo Lamb
Gender : Posts : 276 Join date : 2013-02-02 Age : 41 Location : Northerly
... HOWEVER... It turns out that if you try times enough, you can spin that cosmic roulette and get something pretty amazing. A purely recessive, highly fit... beautiful, strong, smart, blonde lil sexy devil. Why shouldn't we just keep making those?! Let's get rid of all the other ones. This is evolution here, folks! Sparkling new and improved Mankind 2.0!
Well, let me tell ya why. Because highly fit populations thrive only while the conditions for which they are fit exist. Were this pretty little rock we're sitting on an immutable paradise, we'd be set. As it turns out, it's not. Make us an entire population of beautiful, smart, narrow pool clones, then watch it be wiped out in the next bottleneck.
We need variety because it makes us resilient as a species.
Can you think of an environment where being intelligent, creative, strong, and beautiful would not benefit you?
How do you get more variety or diversity? Does outbreeding pose a problem like Anfang is saying?
These questions are not a trap...
Anfang wrote:
You are saying fuck the genetic integrity of a population. If someone has individual values and finds certain traits valuable then let that person cross-breed, it's a free society after all. Well, a society which does not try to protect its genetic integrity will all go up in flames, in a randomized pool of unpredictable breeding results.
Whoa. I'm not trying to fuck the genetic integrity of an entire population... the topic is closer to fucking the genetic integrity of a particular person... by fucking them.
If my actions would cause extinction of anything, I would be re-evaluating my position in that light. If my actions even contributed the tiniest fraction to the likelihood of extinction, I'd be re-evaluating.
I'm not exactly sure what you're accusing me of, but it sounds significant. So, convince me of what you're saying, and that'll be a benefit to me.
Last edited by Mo on Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
Luck - what the common mind calls what it cannot grasp, what slips through its fingers and vanishes in the dark abyss. Chance - what the coward calls his chances when all appears bleak and he does not want to believe his own eyes.
Mystery, the mystique, the sacred mystery, has now become a roulette table, with mathematical odds. The universe in balance, contained within the color schemes of a rotating wheel.
red....red....red.....red....the simple mind bets on black. Even luck must have a heart. Even blind chance must peak through its shroud, to balance things out.
When one speaks of Evolution Theory, and natural selection, and luck is evoked like a god, know that no discussion about reality is being played out. The discussion has turned, like the wheel, into another game of black/red, with the green in there to pretend randomness. No chance in natural selection...because selection implies discrimination, choice, awareness, on some level.
But how is judgments shaped...what values are manufactured or ingrained in it, conflicting, whirling like a wheel?
---------------
Have you discussed anything with a child? It stares at you, wide eyed, nodding its small head, and it only understands half of what you've said. You repeat yourself, and it complains about the repetition, wanting to assert its tiny, fragile, ego.
Talk to a simple, undeveloped, psyche, mind, about nihilism. Tell it all is inverted, flipped, reversed....
Black is white...multiplicity is singular...male is female...self is void...intelligent is dumb...war is peace...slavery is freedom....
Repeat it ten times. Nothing registers. Repeat it an eleventh...it'll mock you, calling your repetition YOUR weakness, not its own.
The modern never takes responsibility. If one repeats...its the other. If one breaks their heart...its the other. If they go bankrupt on a bet...its the other. If someone takes advantage of their stupidity...its the other. If the world contradicts their idealism...its the other.
Its the other, because it DESERVES better.
It must pretend, like a child protecting its tiny ego, that repeating is not necessary, though it has no clue what you just said. It does not understand...its the other. It wants to have things chewed-up and broken into tiny digestible morsels...something it can deal with, with its tiny little stomach, but it must make it seem like it is an equal.
The world surprises it constantly, it is flabbergasted, dismayed, its idealism is contradicted repeatedly ---- not its fault....its the other.
Let's chew it up, one more time, for the little baby boy....because amongst the kindergarten clan it is one of the few who dared exit the playpen. But let's do it on its level, playfully, indirectly, with zero integrity. Let us adapt to the child, and not take its presumed understanding for granted...
With children of a certain age, one uses fairy-tales, magic, hints, fantastic symbols...
Let's give a hint:
In what environment does intelligence become a detriment?
The rest? Just luck....a roulette wheel with black/red squares, and a solitary green , one...and a bouncing ball.
Selection? A matter of closing your eyes and taking a risk...surrendering to chaos, randomness. Follow your heart...as if instinct evolved in darkness, to serve a dull brain.
Yes folks, evolution is chaotic...pure randomness. It's mystical...like love. Complex...like man. Far too complex to make sense of. So complex, in fact, that it is magical.
Best place your bets, drop your pants, bend over, close your eyes and...hope for the best. In time, something mysteriously positive will happen.
Only remember it...and not the ten million times you got raped. The gamblers delusion. He only recalls the small wins, not the myriads of losses...and so he is always, ALWAYS, in the BLACK.
When the system eliminates the masculine man, and successfully changes the criteria for male selection within the female, intentionally and as a natural by product of the elimination of masculinity, then evolution is less random from the system perspective, no?...then more directed in whatever the system wishes...
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 37248 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
When the system eliminates the masculine man, and successfully changes the criteria for male selection within the female, intentionally and as a natural by product of the elimination of masculinity, then evolution is less random from the system perspective, no?...then more directed in whatever the system wishes...
All order is less disorder. Disorder = randomness.
Nature when looking back is a perception of more order. Consciousness is a looking-back. Nature tends towards chaos/randomness. Looking forward, via projection, is a looking towards randomness/chaos. Selective unconsciousness is this focus onward...this detachment from past.
Female abandonment to nature....intuition, blind instincts, incomprehensible and so a matter of pure luck, for the feminine brain, yet life is ordering, and so on a subconscious level the discriminating elimination of order, by selection using appearances, is at work. Females are blind agents of nature. when they are seduced by nihilism an internal contradiction is in play: ideal/real, instinct/social pragmatism. They surrender to whatever is most powerful. In nihilistic systems/environments, nihilistic ideals are her own adopted ideals. She knows not what, where, how...she is in love...she feels the power and gives into it. She is in love with power, what promises stability, harmony, her own status within the group - she is seduced by institutionalization. The abstracted penis...not even God....a faceless force that dominates her becoming.
In natural environments where survival is not protected, not guaranteed, not a "deserving right", things are more austere...more costly, more risky.
Probability = a reduction of possibility. Pattern, order, are other words referring to the same reduction of space/time possibilities. Order, whatever form it takes, are a reduction of possibility.
Nihilism = other than its real essence is also a ploy. One sells it, markets it, internally, as a method of eradicating opposition to order. Insidious order. The slave participates in its own enslavement. Slavery is Freedom. The inversion of values.
A paradox is created...a contradiction. Hypocrisy a lie must be maintained. The Jewish Paradox = when the meek, who shall inherit the earth, become powerful, by seducing quantities of meekness (quantity over quality), how do they justify their own identity as meek? How are the chosen ones, the ones who must suffer on behalf of "God," going to explain their hedonism, their miserly materialism? See U.S. A SuperPower basing its power on being the victim of weakness. The eternal weak, benevolent, one.
See why Judaism splinters into three forms: spiritual (orthodoxy), political (Israel), and cultural Zionism (Strauss, the secular Modern Jews). See why it also splinters into three religions: Judaism, Christianity, Islam.
Why did Heisman commit suicide? Why did Weininger?
Secular Humanism: western Nihilism (Abraham's religions) minus god, minus Jesus, minus the childish metaphors...They morph into pure abstractions, words, numbers...symbols disconnected from aesthetics.
I'm reminded of how the aristocracy selects it's marriage partners. They don't follow animal instincts, but instead take careful consideration of a candidates ancestry and personal history to determine whether they are suitable.
And Velasquez then got some interesting hemophiliacs to paint. I am with you on this one.
apaosha wrote:
It seems to me that basing a family around transient chemical inebriation is not gonna work out well, even if it did make you possible in the first place.
Chemical inebriation...hm. Sounds like a crush or some horniness on the subway. Hard to figure out whether the list of things I mentioned are present in dynamic relation that quickly or shallowly. Though, it's true, some chemical inebriation along the way would be nice and inevitable if that list was met. I find it amazing what people think they can do with their conscious minds when their entire organism has developed very complicated not, not so, partially conscious processes to deal with finding someone to be around a lot and in this context raise kids with. And of course one can add in rational analyses once a connection seems like one you really want.
Or you can flip your pizza dough after sitting with a calculator for an hour getting all your trajectories right. Decide which music to listen to based primarily on written analysis. Choose your friends via DNA testing. Make your own music by letting a computer generate the best song using its analysis of everything in the genre you like.
Last edited by Kovacs on Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
Aaaah, romance. To remain eternally young, carefree,, "innocent".
If by any chance this was meant to be a reponse to my post, it wasn't actually a response to it. It may have been triggered by it - the word 'romantic' being, yes, present - however.
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 37248 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
Carefree.... ....Fearless... ....Exploration. Expenditure of energies with no particular focus.
All will turn out alright in the end The universe is concerned with our welfare.....our pleasures are its purpose.
Play.... A state of training. The mind released from concerns, threats, probabilities, indulges in physical exercise....in abandonment.
The parent watches.
Maturity....to be weaned out of this stage. To suddenly realize there are limits to play, conditions to it, repercussions. To be care-full. Integrity: to accept the consequences of your actions even if they were unintentional. To blame yourself before you seek reasons for failing, for a negative outcome, in the other.
What has sex become? A game...play. A free-for-all child's exploration of sexual possibilities. Underlying it all a genetic exercise...honing one's judgments, preparing for the weaning that never comes.
In the game of sex, playas, pretenses, lying...hyperbole, make-up....strutting and exhibiting, but do not touch! The paint is thin, a surface effect, and touching may scrape it away exposing the drab inards. All is fair in love and war. A shallow play...a game of dress-up and pretend. A child's game.
I'll be the woman, now, and you be the man. It doesn't matter, because tomorrow the roles can reverse. Who cares?! Later I'll be a fearless amazon princess out to find a mate, and you be my slave boy, my pet, my dog.
The parent watches.
The indifference of power enjoyed through a proxy. Like a video game. Through the medium, in this case the silent, or not so silent, power, the state, the parent - the young child grows bold, fearless. It cares not because it does not have to. Others care for it. God, daddy, the Governor, the police officer, the judge, the priest, the guru...its neighbor. The world is its playground, its plaything. It can pretend to be anything, except for a parent...except for mature.
Before and after pills, abortion clinics, go out with no panties on, it's the other's responsibility to care for your safety...splurge, buy, consume....be in the moment, spontaneous, stop THINKING, simply be. You DESERVE it, mommy said. Emote, feeeeeel.
Let's play a game of chance now. Role the dice and come what may you win. You always win....you must.
Integrity: To accept the responsibility for the consequences of your own choices. To blame yourself above all, before you seek explanations, for your failures, for your errors in judgment, in others. To accept the unforeseen repercussions of your actions, choices, even if you did not intend them.
The next step in consciousness: Judgment, discrimination, resulting in controlled activity, informed choices.
Baby steps...
....first step....from unconsciousness to rudimentary either/or selection....
....second step...more precise judgments. Perception of patterns resulting in a more discriminating taste...more care in one's choices, because it is self the chooser, that benefits and also suffers the consequences. The infantile psyche places the blame on others. The world MUST adjust to it, not its judgments to the world....it has a right to play carefree, to sample, to explore, to indulge in pleasures indiscriminately....
....third step...sharpened awareness, heightened senses, broader, deeper consciousness. Tastes reach a height of precision...a pyramid peak. Not any food will do....not any penis and vagina will suffice...not any drink will be enough. Judgment before action, rather than the child's trial by fire, the learning by suffering immediately. Immediacy is pushed back, becoming part of a broader horizon of probabilities. Immediacy becomes a "towards', not a destination.
The pressure of the need determines the pleasure feeling of its sudden, or gradual, satiation. After a desert trek a drink of water becomes an approach to Mount Olympus....a taste of elixir. After prolonged hunger, a piece of bread acquires the characteristics of a four coarse French dining experience.
The opposite is also true. Immediate, easy gratification, results in boredom....the same ol' shit over and over again. Loss of interest. there's no severity....it's easy, immediate, expected. Booooring! Mommy I want more. Disillusionment...the ceaseless sense of dissatisfaction picking at the brain. There must be more to life than THIS!!! There OUGHT to be more.
The experience is revved up to an inflated hot-air balloon: huge, impressive, colorful, but empty. Everything must be loud, in your face, obvious...a booming crescendo.
The infantile brain has not been stressed into maturity. It's senses are dull, numb....retarded. All must become fantastic, fantasy, be raised to the supernatural, the unreal, to register. The world, self, must be complex....mystical. How can love be so simple? They were told it was magical...profound. They demand that it is....they expect it. It must be....it OUGHT to be.
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Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 37248 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
The shift was steady and subtle. So much so that infantile minds did not perceive it at first. Numbness has its privileges. It postpones awareness until its too late or immediate. It makes everything pressing, direct, in your face.
It had to reach a level of growth where even a child would notice, a level of sonar vibration that even a deaf person would feel it, not hear it, but feel it reverberating.
Monogamy...there is someONE for everyone. The idea(l) that romance, sexual attraction, had nothing to do with genetic pragmatism...that it was all some random event, some mystical process nobody need worry about, just let it happen, be open to it. All are precious, my precious. Find the value in what at first appears with little value. Make value a hidden secret, a treasure to be dug up, not in the earth but in the mind. All MUST have value...you find it mister!!! God IS present...you give yourself to him, sinner!!!
When choices have lost their gravitas then all becomes a child's game of tasting the candies. One floats in a sea of sweetness.
Scene... The lovers peered into each other's eyes, over candlelight sparkling on lipstick stained glasses, and half-eaten Filet Mignon...promising each other eternal love, absolute fidelity, loyalty, the world of self. They touch, and sparks fly. Th e groin engorges with blood flow. It's...it's magical. Instinct unleashed...no control, no reason....simply abandon yourself to the sensations. A diamond to represents its undying solidity....its value that never loses its sparkling brilliance.
They giggle as they exchange their wedding vows before the day itself. How beautiful it will all be. Together...us against the world. The sky is the limit. No...the mind.
Fast forward....They live in separate apartments....declaring their hate to their once mutual friends. The diamond still glitters, but the eye only sees a rock. How could she have been so blind to what he was, really? How could he not seen what a slut she was, really? Candlelight has become a surgical light, illuminating what was always there: the in your face, inner workings.
How could she have been so blind? How did he miss it? The lust, subsides to love, the love subsides to tolerance, the tolerance subsides to resentment, the resentment subsides to hatred, hatred subsides to indifference.
Suddenly a new dawn....a new day, a renewed opportunity. The eye is cast adrift, seeking, once more. Nothing was learned, because all was experiences emotionally, intuitively, sensationally.
Promiscuity... Genetic gambling. Place your bets, on probabilities, but make sure you don't place all your ovum in one basket. Environments, like markets, change. Best you balance your investments with a nice girth. Ignorance cannot project long-term, so it needs a wider investment spread. It tries to cover all the bases, with broad brush strokes.
Precision requires more refined awareness...a more discriminating mind. When this is absent, intuition is the second best form of judging. Subconscious is the underlying bedrock of consciousness. Female minds call it intuition...a feeling they cannot pinpoint, urging them towards an investment, a judgment call, a choice.
The solution to that problem is not destroying the diversity on the planet via cross-breeding but to establish different breeds which are genetically stable and healthy enough to create their own societies. Why stop at the human race? Create a cross-breeding pool among all primates and perpetually keep it from forming distinctive breeds. Keep it from establishing races and species.
You don't add to diversity by narrowing the gene pool. You don't make a population stronger by inbreeding.
Its pools baby, not pool. You know the rules?? I'd love it if you started teaching them some more, enter if you dare.
Ecsasy in things acted upon with such clarity. Set realistic goals, then maximize efficiency to the point of insanity, that is what remains best in life.
Whoa. I'm not trying to fuck the genetic integrity of an entire population... the topic is closer to fucking the genetic integrity of a particular person... by fucking them.
You should tell that particular person about your plans of destroying the genetic integrity of the potentially produced offspring. They may object to that. According to phono, you should also limit the spreading of your seed because that kind of behaviour over several generations is inbreeding and that narrows the gene-pool. And that in turn is according to phono enhances the chance of an extinction event.
Now I think phono is full of shit but you should ponder and evaluate this on your own, in my humble judgement.
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I'm not exactly sure what you're accusing me of, but it sounds significant. So, convince me of what you're saying, and that'll be a benefit to me.
That would take me too much time and effort which I am not willing to give. But if you are honest and it really sounded significant, then you should read my posts again, maybe a good book on genetics and especially on breeding and cross-breeding and re-evaluate your positions if they do contribute in some way to the extinction of a population.
Anfang
Gender : Posts : 3989 Join date : 2013-01-23 Age : 40 Location : Castra Alpine Grug
Mixing causes more diversity amongst individuals, less amongst groups. Resilient species are large in sub-divisions so as to increase the likelyhood of survival in unstable future. Without this process the vast majority of species would of been unable to adapt. Please refute this.
Diversity amongst pools causes better and even more overall diversity. You misinterpreted everything basically.
You should tell that particular person about your plans of destroying the genetic integrity of the potentially produced offspring. They may object to that. According to phono, you should also limit the spreading of your seed because that kind of behaviour over several generations is inbreeding and that narrows the gene-pool. And that in turn is according to phono enhances the chance of an extinction event.
Now I think phono is full of shit but you should ponder and evaluate this on your own, in my humble judgement.
Now now, if you're going to talk to me, you should talk to me. Where are your manners?
Your strawman has its head up its backside. Inbreeding IS limiting the spreading of your seed. I say let your seed fly in the wind and fall wherever it may
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That would take me too much time and effort which I am not willing to give. But if you are honest and it really sounded significant, then you should read my posts again, maybe a good book on genetics and especially on breeding and cross-breeding and re-evaluate your positions if they do contribute in some way to the extinction of a population.
Mixing causes more diversity amongst individuals, less amongst groups. Resilient species are large in sub-divisions so as to increase the likelyhood of survival in unstable future. Without this process the vast majority of species would of been unable to adapt. Please refute this.
Diversity amongst pools causes better and even more overall diversity. You misinterpreted everything basically.
Does adding beans to my chili remove the beef from it? I can add so many beans that you can barely tell that there's beef in there. But there is, I promise
Last edited by phoneutria on Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
Mo Lamb
Gender : Posts : 276 Join date : 2013-02-02 Age : 41 Location : Northerly
I'd be interested to hear if someone would ground and justify an accusation toward me in something I've actually said. (The only way to benefit a person is to expose a flaw in their thinking. ---Because you can't correct what you don’t know).
Satyr hasn’t.
He is still practicing something that looks like the art of closet necromancy---where, perhaps prompted by a word or a voice in his head, he speaks to nobody in particular, about nobody in the thread. But at least he has the courage to speak about values, to someone. Albeit like one of those people who stand directly in front of you, but will never look you directly in the eye.
That's more than can be said for some.
When I ask apaosha what he values, his response is that he values himself and his genetic heritage. ---And that’s a fine answer, as far as it goes. But when you ask him what valuable qualities he finds embodied in himself and his past, he won't say; his only response is, "It's personal". People proud of themselves and their past have spent time reflecting on the values embodied in their past, and they are not afraid to stand by those in conversation with others.
What is the point of creating a public forum named "Know Thyself", when he thinks knowing yourself is only a personal project?
Anfang is accusing me of destroying someone's genetic integrity, or the world, or something like that. Bold move, son. I'm not even sure how to respond to that. Bold move.
And I think phoneutria is a gene scientist. A bit technical, if you ask me.
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