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 Objective <> Subjective

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Kvasir
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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptyTue Feb 11, 2020 9:55 am



The difference between 'beleif' and 'being'. The modern divide of consciousness (see Iain Mcgilchrist). To believe in something is still only a vaguary of identity, even if guided by passion, one needs the necessity of alacrity. To be in accordance with a belief, is to organically act out psychological impulses which affirm ones identity within the natural exigencies of the real world, also known as the "spirit". Because there is no ethos or "spiritual basis" in modernity, these impulses act out through psychosis, because everything about modern life is abstract and anti-nature. It manifests only as psychological dysfunctions and insanity; a world dominated by Mcgilchrist's "left-brain" sphere of reality.
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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptyWed Feb 26, 2020 8:37 am

Philosophy, through its use of language, has shifted from a movement towards increasing objectivity towards a desire to conceal and justify its movement towards increasing subjectivity.

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptySat Mar 28, 2020 9:41 am

Subjectivity = placing the criterion of judgment and subsequent choice, in the interpreting mind's reaction to external phenomena - leading to the absurdity of denying, negating, the existence or separation of subject from object.

Objective = placing the criterion of judgment and subsequent choice, in what is independent from the subject's reaction to external phenomenon - leading to a position of uncertainty, and an ambiguous separation of subject from object.

Hedonism is the result of the first, as the individual simply values what makes it feel good, denying any independent criterion it must hold itself accountable to - hedonism becomes the only criterion; wisdom of the body that requires no clarification and may even be reduced by it.
Body's honesty is not always in harmony with existence, as it may be a product of corruption - particularly when it is a product of nihilistic systems offering it sheltering from natural order and natural culling processes - byproduct of a mental ideological abstraction manifesting as physical mutations.
As such beauty and art are judged by how it affects and the reactions it produces in a subject, rejecting all objective criteria - i.e., independent from the subject.
An objective judgments places the criterion externally, e.g., in experienced symmetry/proportionality, to judge beauty; in melody, rhythm, to judge music; in form and colour proportionality and symmetry, in relation to reality, to judge plastic art-forms.

In music the objective way of judging it is by how rhythm, tempo and melody coexists and combine in a composition - judging superior and inferior by the degree to which rhythm dominates over melody, reducing complexity to an either/or beat mirroring organic metabolic rhythms and heartbeats, and/or by what degree melody dominates rhythm, representing the fluidity of space/time in musical form.

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptyWed Apr 08, 2020 6:48 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptyThu Apr 09, 2020 6:54 am

Human brains need to reduce everything to its lowest-common-denominator, so, in this case, 'energy' is the common-denominator referring to dynamic processes which cannot be said to be the same but only have a common trait - movement/momentum....vibration/oscillation - the last two are for me more precise as they imply dimensional interactivity possessing a sequence (pattern) or not, i.e., order/ordered or chaotic/random.

The last, again, refers to what the presenter calls "unintelligibility".
Reality must remain forever unintelligible or mysterious - uncertain to a degree.
Again I say non-absolutes means exactly this.
Anyone claiming to have an intelligible understanding of the unintelligible, to know the mystical and to possess understanding offering great powers, insights etc, is a charlatan and a liar using the negative, the unknown, to manipulate and to exploit others = superstition peddlers.

The relationship between the subjective mind and the objectively real is interpretation/translation.
This does not mean any interpretation is just as good, or accurate, as any other - equality in and through ignorance - but only that all interpretations are approximations, representations.


Energy also implies interactivity, such as light, bouncing off (interacting) with a what is present (object) and then interacting with the sense organ, e.g. eye, ear, skin etc.
The only thing I will add to his lecture is that the mind is the second processing/interpreting agency. the first occurs on the physical level, before the stimulation is transmitted to the brain to be processed and interpreted as sensation, concept, image etc.
the body, the sense organ automatically interprets converts the interactivity, the stimulation, into a form it can then transmit to the brain, via the nervous system.
This double interpretation/conversion is the basis of dualism and the reason why many deny free-will any degree of reality.
Plants show us how life does not require a central nervous system or a brain to react and adapt to environmental conditions.Plants truly have will - intent - but minimal free-will, because they cannot judge and then act in accordance to this judgment, although they are superior to dead matter in the sense that they can choose a path-of-more-resistance, whereas all else simply has no such choice, but forever flows along paths-of-least-resistance, ergo non-life has no will, no intent.
A plant, or a simple organism, does have intent - though a simple one - it intent is to survive and to reproduce. This small difference gives a plant will to proceed towards and through paths-of-more-resistance to access energies it needs, or to direct energies towards reproductive processes.

If we understand attraction/repulsion as a degree of harmony/disharmony, determining what is resistant, repulsive, and what is less so, attractive, we can imagine how life could evolve a simple binary method of directing itself within an unknown environment.
From this rudimentary method more sophisticated forms of directing will evolve - some of which can contradict their own impulses, creating a conflict between mind/body occurring in the nervous system, including brain.
Body and mind can be directed by a different reaction, interpretation, creating mind/body dissonance - or a conflict between the real and the ideal - schizophrenia.

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptySun Apr 12, 2020 11:57 am

Subjectivity sometimes means morality.
All is reduced to a good/bad moral judgment - God/Satan - 1/0; absolute one, absolute none; good/evil.

Hate/Love is assessed accordingly.
Disgust is equated with fear - ergo homophobia, xenophobia, or with hatred misogyny, misanthropy, misandry etc.
All must be made a product of the mind, whereas disgust is an evolved reaction to toxicity and does not require a rational assessment or logic, nor morality.
here the inversion of Modern nihilism is evident in how disgust, a visceral physical evolved reaction is made wilful, or associated with the brain's lucid judgment - reasoning.
Then they can claim a memetic foundation, rather than a genetic one.

Were morals based on natural, genetic, reactions, established through trial and error as visceral impulses and automated?
Not for the desperate degenerate.
For them all is subjective, meaning all is cultivated, a product of social influence - it is either intentionally and wilfully manufactured by a consciousnesses - if not god then man himself - or it is nothing - either/or.



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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptySun Apr 12, 2020 12:05 pm

Consider why man is averse to eating carnivorous species....and how culture can cultivate a overcoming of this aversion based on need/desire - necessity.
It does not require a moral judgment, but may be established as a moral rule, or overcome by a moral rule, or an ideological rule.
Why do animals rarely eat their own kind - especially higher species - and refuse to eat feces - except in some cases of extreme need or mental illness - or why carnivores and omnivores usually prefer herbivore prey.
It has nothing to do with morality, but an ethical standard can be coded later to establish it as a collective rule, so as to prevent mental illness to return to it.

Murder, by itself is neither moral nor immoral, yet killing your own kind is.
Here discrimination determines what 'your own kind' means, establishing a rule that imposes penalties on those who break it.
We see this in other species using cooperative survival strategies - not requiring fear of god, or some moral dogma.

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptySun Apr 12, 2020 1:14 pm

Kvasir wrote:
That Lockean lecture, its conclusion, was the resultant epistemology I acquired from my time in school and around this forum (simultaneously).

Satyr wrote:
Human brains need to reduce everything to its lowest-common-denominator, so, in this case, 'energy' is the common-denominator referring to dynamic processes which cannot be said to be the same but only have a common trait - movement/momentum....vibration/oscillation - the last two are for me more precise as they imply dimensional interactivity possessing a sequence (pattern) or not, i.e., order/ordered or chaotic/random.

The last, again, refers to what the presenter calls "unintelligibility".
Reality must remain forever unintelligible or mysterious - uncertain to a degree.
Again I say non-absolutes means exactly this.
Anyone claiming to have an intelligible understanding of the unintelligible, to know the mystical and to possess understanding offering great powers, insights etc, is a charlatan and a liar using the negative, the unknown, to manipulate and to exploit others = superstition peddlers.

The relationship between the subjective mind and the objectively real is interpretation/translation.
This does not mean any interpretation is just as good, or accurate, as any other - equality in and through ignorance - but only that all interpretations are approximations, representations.
Here the skeptic would say all is interpretation so even your perception of a thing being an 'approximation' is an interpretation. Charlatans would definitely make use of this to say they have 'special access'. This is because the colloquial usage of 'interpretation' is used in a disconnected manner from how it's utilized in philosophy - the average dolt does not perceive 'interpretation' as a hot stove, the pain of what they experience - they all call that 'real', not 'interpretation'. Manimals. Feels = Reals

Satyr wrote:
Energy also implies interactivity, such as light, bouncing off (interacting) with a what is present (object) and then interacting with the sense organ, e.g. eye, ear, skin etc.
The only thing I will add to his lecture is that the mind is the second processing/interpreting agency. the first occurs on the physical level, before the stimulation is transmitted to the brain to be processed and interpreted as sensation, concept, image etc.
the body, the sense organ automatically interprets converts the interactivity, the stimulation, into a form it can then transmit to the brain, via the nervous system.
Easily agreeable.
Satyr wrote:
This double interpretation/conversion is the basis of dualism and the reason why many deny free-will any degree of reality.
I am not seeing how dualism is begotten from there being the Source Object, the Medium, the Medium Interpretation Organ, and then the Organ Interpretation Organ - specifically in the latter two - except the dualism of mind/body. But how does that connect to the binary absolutism of "absolutely free" or "absolutely unfree"? I suppose by the human seeing everything in terms of its humanity - anthropomorphic metaphysics - its own existence.
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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptySun Apr 12, 2020 2:47 pm

It relates to all concepts as absolutes.
Life must either be absolutely free - god/master - or absolutely un-free - god's thought/slave/means...
No degree - hierarchies, in-between.
Either/Or.
Either/Or being how consciousness works.
Binary with an underlying singularity.
Binary being the manifestation of the singularity - one-god.
Man sees himself everywhere, or what he knows and understands of himself.

Thus, man is organism, ordering, so all is ordered - and chaos must be occult order, or higher hidden order.
God in the machine. Perfection manifested as imperfection.
Man is god alienated from himself. A sort of self-deception.
Man is god forgetting who and what he is.
God, the absolute, i.e., god, order, perfection, is presumed...and only the wise, the pious, the genius, the worthy are able to remember, or perceive this absolute --- physicality is imperfect manifestation of the idea of perfection.
Christian Platonism.
Body is the projection of mind - inversion of body manifesting mind, into mind manifesting body.
Passion of Christ.
Returning to god is a rebirth from corporeal to pure idea - pure mind.

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptySun Apr 12, 2020 2:53 pm

The absolute presupposes an enclosure - a telos.
Veritas was the roman misinterpretation of the Greek aletheia - an open-ended world-view, with no boundaries and no end.
For there to be an absolute = indivisible, immutable, whole, one, it must be bounded, enclosed, already complete.
Think of how we moderns conceive of universe - as a singularity, a complete whole - as if we were 'outside' its boundaries perceiving it whole, and not within it where no complete whole is ever experienced because all is process - all is a towards.
From this god and humanity follow as complete wholes with a yet to be discovered telos - intent.
We are but their shadows, their minions, their imperfect, incomplete parts - the whole is made of its opposite - it is complete wholeness made of incomplete divisions.

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptySun Apr 12, 2020 3:01 pm

Absent Absolute
For the 'positive nihilist' it is a void, chaotic, space it can project its corrective, fulfilling, absolute wholes.
For the 'pure nihilist' it is void, chaos, nothingness.
Chaos is occult order - complexity - higher order.

Pure nihilist can claim to be an agency of this occult order - chosen - possessing secret knowledge and understanding of it - promising great power to those who submit to them; or claim to be its shadow, laughing at all human attempts to establish an alternate order within this absolute divine order - they secretly worship this chaos, as Satanist worship the negative, inversion, of the one-god.
The last is a feminine reaction to masculine order.
What man can match god's masculinity?
All males are imperfect, feeble representations of the absolutely masculine.

Bipolar - positive/negative absolutes - which is really a singularity.

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptySun Apr 12, 2020 3:12 pm

Satyr wrote:

Man sees himself everywhere, or what he knows and understands of himself.
That is basically what I meant by anthropological metaphysics. Makes sense. I also noticed I hadn't really conceived or taken seriously the two organs being responsible for sight. Most people just say "oh it's just the mind" and ignore the eyes, or say "oh it's just the eyes" and dismiss the mind. This is to keep it wrapped neatly in the mind/body dualism. The framing of the argument has dug itself in.

Generally this (digging in of dualism) is a result of insecurity, a person accusing another of delusion out of fear, or defending themselves from reductive accusations of delusion. Unsophisticated defenses and attacks, misinterpretations or miscommunications. Ego - caring not beyond the esteeming effects of language, instead of the accuracy. Hence why it becomes more impressive when someone 'exposes' another, and then refuses an unflattering interpretation of the other, correcting them - only for the correction to remain unflattering but correct. Rarity that is.
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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptySun Apr 12, 2020 3:23 pm

This is the magic of it all.
The mind/body inversion implies that if you do not accept or recognize the other's perspective it does not apply to you - it does not exist - because all is subjective.
If you do not acknowledge your own participation in your own fate it does not apply to you - you are innocent; if you do not recognize or acknowledge race or sex, it does not exist in your reality - then any consequences coming from this are blamed on others or an absolute other.

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptyFri Apr 17, 2020 4:33 pm

Modern subjectivity - the presumption that one accepts an idea only if it benefits them and not because it is objectively true and may benefit them but may not.
The criterion is not if it benefits the individual, but for the typical modern this is the primary and only criterion so he seeks a benefit behind every belief.
The possibility that someone may hold an idea as most probably true even if it does not benefit them or may even contradict his or her self-interests is incomprehensible to them.
They reveal the motives behind everything they believe in.
Even the universality of their methodology is based on a presumed benefit.

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptySat May 02, 2020 5:23 pm



I'm liking this guy more and more. I hope he comes out with a book.



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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptyMon May 04, 2020 6:43 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptyMon May 04, 2020 7:34 pm

The "absence" is this noetic/theoretical 'absolute' - absent absolute I call it.
Heidegger's 'nothingness' is literal - no-thingness, because he is influenced by eastern philosophy where nothingness is not nothing.

"Thingness" is the noumenon simplifying/generalizing or nullifying the phenomenon, which is never a thing, but a movement/momentum = energy.
Thingness is the abstraction of the dynamic phenomenon, which si not a thing at all but a process, i.e., dynamic interactivity.

Nihilism, properly defines is the demand that the 'thingness' exist, and those who claim that it doesn't are 'nihilists' - inversion of meaning; any description of a existence where the 'thing' the absolute does not exist, is a negative.
The absolute, the thing, can only ever exist in the mind - as it is an abstraction, i.e., simplification/generalization, interpretation of the dynamic existent, and only that which exhibits order - has a pattern.

We live in an inverted reality....and it is doomed to fail, because if it abides by its own beliefs it cannot survive in a reality it inverts and denies.
Nihilists are always hypocrites and self-deceptive...they would not survive if they followed their won stated principles - take Christianity. A true christian would die...quickly.
Christianity survives because it deceives itself, and it sets up rituals, such as confessions or Sunday mas where its followers are cleansed of their weekly duplicity - in the form of sinfulness.
The ideal cannot be lived....so this means all are sinners who must make amends and purify themselves to live purely in an after-life.
They've defined their ideals out of existence - they've made them supernatural, surreal, so that nothing real, nothing of nature, could ever meet the criteria.

But all nihilists are liars...Abrahamism and secular forms....Marxism for instance.  
it's early duplicity has been revealed so it is currently reinventing itself through post-modernism with a new set of duplicitous beliefs they can never apply because if they did they would perish.
Freaks and 'spiteful mutants' and 'desperate degenerates' could not would not survive without a sheltering system,, if they remained true to their own convictions.
Natural selection would take care of them because language games and human nihilism does not work on reality - their logos is impotent beyond humanity.
So they redefine world as humanity, and humanity as world.

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptyMon May 04, 2020 7:59 pm

Taking existence as a problem instead of a challenge, taking reality as an encumbrance, instead of a condition of life, is what severs the connection one has with their own spirit and creates these circumstances for the existential identity crisis of self and abstraction.

Philosophical analytics hijacked the self-evidence of perception with the world, and turned it against the individual. Questioning all into absurdity is its goal. Skepticism occupying the emptiness of the individual, and because it achieves nothing except more doubt and skepticism, the spirit becomes nomadic and hedonistic, imprisoned to its own instinctual need, accumulating more knowledge, but never any self-knowledge. This is why academia reigns supreme. All that can be known must be proven; it must be validated by an authority. The self must have an external authority constraining it to changing opinions and “facts”; any other attempt of one's own effort to think independently is considered a grave mistake. The inquisitive nature from the self of the world, now redirected inward, to themselves, which is what Tyler aptly explained with Descartes, who inadvertently began the modern rationalistic tradition.

No natural relationship between man and reality can exist anymore without methodology. This is how reason becomes nihilistic.




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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptyMon May 04, 2020 8:54 pm

The primary "authority" is the world itself.

Nihilism only has text, and other minds as authorities, because its abstractions cannot be validated sensually, and independently, from the world we are all part of.
Nihilism can only refer to other words - minds referring and deferring to other minds, that can use language - logos is their connection.
Their abstractions have no external referent other than in other minds - so nihilism is not only linguistic but always part of a collective. Its abstractions cease to exist without this affirmation.  
It needs a following and authorities - priests.
Its insights cannot be independently validated nor are they applicable outside minds that can be affected by semiotics, by logos.

You cannot teach another how to fish because its all theoretical and cannot be used to do anything outside beings that can be affected linguistically.

This is what they call "magic" - its the use of semiotics to produce a psychological effect in minds that have been primed, prepared, to be affected by them.
Their "magic' is useless with anything beyond such minds, that know and understand language, or minds where a symbol/word can trigger a reaction.

In essence humanity is the world for them.

Proxies is what parasites need to engage a world they've retreated from.
When you cannot farm or hunt, you exploit those who do farm and hunt, through semiotics - codes...Matrix...money..

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptyThu May 07, 2020 6:28 am



What have I been saying for years?
Words/symbols referring to other words/symbols, is Nihilism.
Jews are particularly drawn to this due to historical and genetic factors. They are peddlers of the nil, and use it to weaken, by detaching minds from reality - zombification - and then exploit this wandering disconnection and alienation by offering it mystical words/symbols, or by mystifying the ones they defined out of existence.

Nihilism is based no the 'power' of the nil - its detaching utility, experienced as a relief, pleasure....from a reality that does not yield as easily and is uncertain, and a source of continuous attrition - producing need/suffering.
This detachment experienced as pleasure, relief, is what makes nihilism seductive; attractive to desperate degenerates (spiteful mutants) or a life form developing self-consciousness exposing it to increasing levels of need/suffering.
Self-consciousness being the gradual perception of self as it relates/ compares to otherness - a relationship that is never completely positive but it is always a source of insecurity and vulnerability - adding top physical need/suffering the factor of mental need/suffering.

This is why mind attempts to disconnect from body, the physical, using semiotics - words/symbols.
To detach form the empirical, the tangible, the experienced world, the physical and find relief, experienced as pleasure.

THIS is what Liberty/Freedom means in the minds of Nihilists: detachment from reality = noetic disconnection, rejection of the apparent, the present - phenomenon.
This rejection is the 'power of the nil' I spoke about.
Liberty/Freedom is nihilistic code for detachment - escape from reality into the mind's own constructs, necessitating a collective to validate it externally, since ti has rejected the experienced world it needs/desires a substitution, such as other minds - a herd of inter-subjectivity.
World = Humanity; Humanity = World.
A book, a scripture, a text will suffice, since it contains words/symbols passed through the ages - through space/time - containing concepts that can be carried around within the mind, as ideas.

If we define 'religion' accurately, to distinguish ti from other forms of spirituality, its main component is the deference to a sacred scripture, a book.
This is why I've been calling them 'people of the book, by the book, for the book'.
Such scripture is a collection of the collective semiology with no external reference - instead of world the believer refers and defers to other minds or to externalized thought contained in books.
A book is the externalization of abstractions - like all technologies and art - so Scripture, sacred text, compensates for the absence of external references.
Scripture becomes the external referent - a source of signs to refer and defer to externally in lieu of a real alternative.
Solipsism escaping its own self-realization by referring and deferring to other minds within the collective.

For this reason Desperate Degenerates declare philosophy at an end - and themselves as the 'last men'.
Most have no investment in a future so the idea that there will be no future worth experiencing and investing in is a comforting, self-deceiving, idea.

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptyThu May 07, 2020 7:24 am

It becomes clear that for nihilists of all kinds, secular or spiritual, language, logos as it is defined by Christians, is crucial to their negating world-views.
Without it they have no externalization of their ideals, which lack an referent, and no way to communicate them and expand their field of effect within a collective.

Without language they have no power at all, and are totally impotent. Their ideas vanish in nothingness.
Language is what is projected and then referred and deferred to - it is what the absolute is made of.

like the word 'god' as defined by Abrahamics.
They want to convert all language to this form of detachment - to mystify it....what they then call 'magic', which like all things nihilistic, has little to do with the original meaning of the word - just as for nihilists paganism is corrupted into Satanism, many Indo-European concepts are corrupted and integrated into nihilistic world-views.

I call this recycling, repackaging, re-marketing, reselling...
This is most obvious in how Marxism, i.e., secular Abrahamism, is now being resold as a kind of Capitalistic, selfish, self-serving, opportunism - post-modernized.
A virus adapts and rids itself of what has failed in the past...so Marxist humanistic ideology about the collective, has been replaced with a Marxism of the individual, ergo self-serving opportunism, subjectivity.

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptySat May 09, 2020 6:41 am


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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptySat May 09, 2020 7:43 am

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptyTue May 26, 2020 8:19 am

The need for absolute knowledge and absolute doubt are interchangeable.



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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptySun Aug 23, 2020 10:05 pm

Consequence bridges the distance between subjective interpretation and objective reality.
It is consequence and the desire to deny responsibility for it, which is at the root of nihilism.

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2020 6:04 pm



>Nihilism emerges as a defensive reaction to an indifferent, unknow, and fluctuating world, constructing a variety of ideological alternatives offering solutions to the "problem" of existence.

>Ego is the lucid part of self - the 'self' in self-consciuosnjess. Ego seeks to detach form self - body - sop as to reinvent itself in accordance to tis own preferences, or to immerse itself into another identity, or to completely annihilate itself, so as to avoid the insecurities and vulnerability its self-awarness exposes it to - nihilism is born as an attitude a philosophical school offering a multitude of creative detachments and alternatives.

>Ego becomes an agency of defensiveness, seeking salvation, safety, from the world, within itself - using semiotics - i.e., language, symbols, representing abstractions - as an alternative world to the experienced.
Ego seeks liberty, salvation, form its own self, or from the tangible, experienced, empirical, apparent - past made present. In effect seeking salvation from itself - its own determined past

>Emotion, and passionate creative self-coinsistency, become the standard for evaluating what is more probable from what is less so.

>Detachment from reality demands an external agency to protect it from the indifferent, unknown, fluctuating, uncertain world, as the mind attempts to withdraw inward, into its own abstractions, i.e., immersion within ideologies and theories that detach and contradict the experienced world.

>Other minds in a similar predicament can now join their efforts to recreate their own private reality - each becoming for the other the external other which is denied existence, i.e., collective, inter-subjectivity.
The strategy of schooling or flocking reflects the dynamics as each participant seeks the middle-space - furthest away from the world. Median, mediocrity, becomes a coveted position of status.
All participants acquire the behaviour of a super-organism, moving through space/time as if governed by its own internal consciousness - collective consciousness.
Quantities become crucial as they expand the super-organic field of effect - the size of the inter-subjective community. Qualities are reduced in importance because they prevent integration of greater quantities.

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptyThu Sep 24, 2020 11:37 am



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The physical - tangible, empirical - stretching the idea of genetics - precedes and informs the development of the subjective - the quality and motive of the subject, determining the effectiveness of its subjective interpretations - determining the objectivity.

Caveat: unless an intervening will adjusts and disseminates the errors evenly, protecting the subject from its own errors - this produces sheltering and atrophying, and leads to an inevitable collapse.
Subjectivity requires a collective, or an intervening objective will, to protect it form tis own errors - giving it an impression that all perspectives are equally flawed. The motive is easy to understand. Why would any more objective - superior - will bother to do so?
To expand its range of control, via the mediation of these dependent proxies.
It becomes a proxy for the mediocre, and the mediocre become its proxies, reducing the risk and costs of engaging the world directly.

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptyFri Sep 25, 2020 2:36 pm

When a man does not hold himself accountable to an external standard, he gains nothing, he achieves nothing, he remains nothing - nothing becomes his standard, constantly adjusted according his changing circumstances - he can find no fault in himself, because he is never at fault - can never be at fault - but only his standard is to blame, and it can be changed, at will, or eventually it can be reduced to nil.
Power of nil.

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptySat Sep 26, 2020 10:07 am



Back to basics.

Greeks had a better conception - not will, but energy - at work, in the process of.....
Schopenhauer could not make sense of need/suffering - desiring to rationalize why life must endure such experiences.

Yet, the experience of existence - as dynamic interactivity - is as need/suffering, enduring temporal/spatial attrition.
To persist, as a emerging incomplete, unity, is to suffer the forces of change, flux. Chaos must be included and correctly defined to validate this enduring incompleteness, striving, moving, working, struggling - agon.
The Greeks, again, had the word Ananke - translated into English as necessity, i.e., need.
Need is the experience of the absence of finality, completeness, singularity, i.e., the sensation of an absence - relative only to life, which becomes obsessed with an end to tis need/suffering, imagining it - projecting it - as a final, total, satiation/gratification, completeness, i.e. Paradise, Utopia...Nirvana...Salvation imagined as a release, liberation, from existence.

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PostSubject: Re: Objective <> Subjective Objective <> Subjective - Page 9 EmptyThu Oct 08, 2020 12:32 pm



Dr. McGilchrist elaborated further.
Nihilism pushes the psychology to their extreme self-referential, cohesion - gene/meme, mind/body binaries, and ideological dualities, are all associated with this right/left hemisphere interactivity...

Left-Hemisphere unregulated by the Right-Hemisphere, leads to autism - Alexandrian Age. Dominion of abstraction, i.e., ideas/ideals.
Hyper-Masculinity. Mind.
Positive-Nihilism ensues when the left-hemisphere is damaged or completely dominates the right-hemisphere, i.e., positive absolute, order, oneness, whole, complete, God...etc.

Right-Hemisphere unregulated by the Left-Hemisphere, leads to emotionalism, i.e., sympathy/antipathy dominating empathy - Hedonistic Age. Dominion of sensations, i.e., emotions feelings, pleasure/pain.
Hyper-Femininity - Feminization of Man. Body.
Pure-Nihilism ensues when the right-hemisphere is damaged or completely dominates the left-hemisphere, i.e., negative absolute, chaos, nothingness, void, negation of all...etc.


Nihilistic, im-Balance, Abrahamic/Buddhist Asceticism:
Bipolar - self-abenagation, rejection of the physical, tangible - the body - on the one pole; surrender to pain/pleasure principles, hedonism, egotism, materialism, subjectivism on the other pole.
Synthesis of the two, with the Right regulating the Left, and the Left regulating and submitting to the Right.

Hellenic Balance, Hellenic Asceticism:
Synthesis of the two, with the Left regulating the Right, and the Right regulating and submitting to the Left.
Mind regulating and directing the body, without denying or silencing its presence - allowing it to express itself, within reason.

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