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Yeah, you can't challenge the ILP members because you have to be inclusive.

What's the point of challenging anyone?

The crazies don't understand.

The morons don't understand.

There is a minimum level of intelligence required for understanding.

Those men and women who do understand, have left by now.

Understanding, and lacking the mind for it, is one factor, the other, more influential one, is fear.
Stupidity is its own defence, but fear constructs arguments to defend and hide its cowardice.

You see, once you've invested too much to a position that seduced you, and comforted your anxieties, early on, letting go of that memetic blanket is next to impossible.
Most of these moderns would go insane, commit suicide, if they accepted nature as it always has been, apparent in front of them, but they refuse to look.
They feel it intuitively that they will not survive that much honesty, and those that seem to be able to cope with it, peering into the void, seem to them monsters, ill, already insane.

I mean, look how they avoid the race and sex issue when it is grounded on natural arguments.
They never offer an alternative to the challenges, because their positions are entirely emotional, self-serving, noetic abstractions.
They love subjectivity because that's an easy way of dismissing any standard outside personal "I think so, I say so" emotionalism.

Ask them to explain how species splinter off from a common ancestor if not due to genetic isolation, environmental conditioning over time (gradual) manifesting in mind/body divergence in potential.
Ask them why appearances matter all the time except when it comes to humans.
Ask them how and why the sexual type female/male would only evolve the physical traits and not also the psychological/mental traits to carry out the sexual role's function?
Ask them to show you a "one", an immutable, static thing - an absolute.
Ask them to define their words, when they reject our definitions.

Ask them and all you'll get is obfuscation, gibberish, personality assassination attempts, declarations of victory, word-games, tomfoolery, and then silence.

I almost forgot, but a note of thanks to Arminius for his unexpected support.

I hope you get to read this.

One would think that improving ILP would be be a no-brainer. What prevents Carleas from getting rid of the nutters? Or at least challenging the nutters? What exactly is he afraid of?

Flakie wrote:

One would think that improving ILP would be be a no-brainer. What prevents Carleas from getting rid of the nutters? Or at least challenging the nutters? What exactly is he afraid of?

He is a nutter!

He tolerates only those who he finds harmless, and those retards who say things he agrees with.
The rest he finds legalistic jargon to justify banning them, like any hypocrite would.
Only_Humean does not act alone. He has Carleas' full support.

They like to create a space reflecting Modern settings, where individuals can gather, as if in a cafe, to shoot the shit, have a good time, be silly, and perhaps indulge in some pseudo-intellectual posturing before all return to their "real lives" to live the status quo nobody doubts or questions or considers "that bad".
Thick hides require sharp blows to sense that something is happening....and Nihilism has not reached the level where even the thick would fail to sense.

Ah, a philosophical break from the mundane 'real life'. Except that the philosophy is also mundane... maybe even more mundane that 'real life'.

Then they complain about philosophy being trivial, worthless word gaming, inconsequential...of course it is when you approach it like these retards do.
Philosophy as a chicken soup remedy for their personal problems.
An easy to make broth of goodness, then sleep to let its magic work.

O_H isn't even around most of the time. Only Mags and Ucci actually regularly participate.

Whatever faults Mags has, at least she puts in her hours. I give her full credit for that.

Flakie wrote:

O_H isn't even around most of the time. Only Mags and Ucci actually regularly participate.

Whatever faults Mags has, at least she puts in her hours. I give her full credit for that.

Only_Human only arrives when satyr posts....so someone notifies him to come and do the dirty work.
He provides zero content, as does Carleas.

Mags is a boring woman...'nough said.
After years of posting have you ever seen a post, by her, that made you stop and ponder?
Where is this MENSA mind?

Flakie wrote:

ILP had  some members who were genuinely interested in philosophy, or so it seemed to me.

I'd like to hear who fooled you? ; )

Tab, Pav and Xunzian were around, Faust and O_H were still active. It had a good mix of people who posted regularly.

And look at it now.

Ha!

Invaded by American pseudo-intellectual, Christian/Marxist cynics, utopianist anarchists, and shallow lost souls....fatherless, motherless, with no family whatsoever, dreaming of the "individual's" dream of escape.
A life in waiting, for death...and nothing to do but distract yourself in hedonism.

Satyr wrote:

[..] lost souls....fatherless, motherless, with no family whatsoever, dreaming of the [individual's] dream [...]
A life in waiting, for death... [...]  

That portrays the better of us sometimes, man. It's the nihilistic precursor, ready or not when it is, for conversion.

A weak spirit needs a family to bolster what strengths it has.
Nihilism infects the weak, through their weakness.
It gives them illness as health - simple and easy: change your perspective - the subjctivist power of self-narcosis.
Accept your illness as your health.

The strong ones become stronger through adversity.
The feeble ones break.

Flakie wrote:

Tab, Pav and Xunzian were around, Faust and O_H were still active. It had a good mix of people who posted regularly.

I see, thanks.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Oh look how the scumbag Kneel-maid edited her reply there... she'd commented to li'l Erik, to the effect, this is not the age to be thinking of philosophy and issues like death,,, and li'l Erik should "just get laid" and sleep around and be happy...



she's brilliant.

The seduction of the body, to keep the mind silent.
It's one reason she's so dim.

I thought that she was fundy Christian.

Flakie wrote:

I thought that she was fundy Christian.

She has the spirit of a Christ follower.
Wants to save mankind from itself, one sheep at a time....but having lost god, pleasure, masturbation, will have to do.

She strokes and strokes...hoping the other will ejaculate on her face.
Wash her with pleasure juice, to compensate for her dryness.

Nihilism also has agency in the honest, which avenue does not neccessitate a discount of the line that you evaluate.
Nihilism as process is congenital in every organism which interacts in an organizational unit with its obverse process of whatever the proper term for life-building or growth is.
For higher organisms the same interplay extends to an existential proportion, where it garners its most divided and undivided attention.
The infliction of existential Nihilism as aforesaid can be afforded as the substrate for an impetus toward its counter, which denotes an acceptance of it, or neither a denial or suppression, nor distortion of it.
As has been mentioned elsewhere on the forum, a quandry develops when a skepticism diffuses into a cynicism by the overbearance of a nihilistic drive. Then what is problematic with cynicism: it accords a dishonest or costly prejudiced, close-ended, truncated account of World, which in turn can be extrapolated to indicate a schism which divide remains either static or is continued with subdivisions in one direction while without bridging the parts back with the context or whole in the other direction.

I managed to catch hold of the term: anabolism.

Arbiter of Change wrote:

 He does not deny evolution, but he denies the logical consequences of it on an emotional, political basis.

No, what I point out is this: that there are any number of objectivists out there embracing one or another political dogma [from the extreme left to the extreme right] who all insist that how they understand the evolution of life on earth is the only way it can be understood.

What you deny is just how run of the mill your own doctrinaire, authoritarian agenda is. There must be hundreds of you out there espousing one or another similar racist, sexist political agenda.

Satyr is just more intent on rationalizing it "philosophically" by posing a series of didactic/pedantic/scholastic lectures that Lyssa and the Kids can quote in all the other forums.

One more rendition of this:

"KT was like a forum that wanted to change all; and could not; so burned with its impotence; and had only ILP, an infinitely small microcosm to convert or detest."

My apologies to John Fowles

Arbiter of Change wrote:

 So when he linked me to that example of special olympics, I said those people should have been aborted - their genes can be determined to be inferior, and thus they are only taking the place of, possibly, more healthy children. It only logically follows from the theory of evolution, which I understand that he accepts, that they should have been aborted.

Here is how I responded in full on that thread:

But Arbs point is always the same: "fuck them if they don't share my point of view!!"

Why? Because his point of view necessarily reflects the ideal, superior judgment. Why? because his point of view is the most rational [or the only rational] manner in which to think about these things. Why? Because it's what Satyr thinks.

And from his superior perch he and he alone is able to distinguish between the truly "healthy" babies and the truly "unhealthy" babies. Which babies should live and which babies should die? Which affliction sends them to the nursery and which affliction gets them shredded?

Ask Him. Then he'll ask Satyr. Then we'll all know which babies are in tune with the Objective World and which babies are not.

But then we get to the part where the baby is healthy but in order to bring it to term we have to force the pregnant woman to give birth.

Is that necessarily moral? Is that necessarily in sync with the Objective World?

Ask him.

Does it make any difference if the baby is black?

Ask him.

Does it make any different if the parents of the baby are Jewish, or "ethnic" or homosexuals or "liberals" or Marxists?

Ask him.

Is he bigoted in this regard?

So, are you?


Sure, but you've got the "science" and the "ideals" and the "superior judgment" to back it up. Right?

Let's ask Satyr.

Arbiter of Change wrote:

 He claims that the fact there is different opinions matter, and cannot be disregarded because all are situated in dasein and cause political conflicts, yet when somebody disagrees with him about something that he considers obvious, a fact, he is more than willing to disregard the different opinion.

Different opinions matter because there is no getting around them. But that's not the same as demonstrating that your own opinions are not really opinions at all -- but are actually an ideal reflection of the objective world.

You know, other then by asserting this to be the case in a series of didactic/scholastic lectures that barely make contact with the world that we actually live in.

And while I have noted the manner in which I have become entangled existentially in my own "dasein dilemma", I have yet to have you note the manner in which a value judgment of your own manages to transcend it.

I know: Why don't you and I explore this on a separate thread here in the agora? You can start it. And you can choose the issue to discuss.

Supra-Aryanist wrote:

Nihilism also has agency in the honest, which avenue does not neccessitate a discount of the line that you evaluate.
Nihilism as process is congenital in every organism which interacts in an organizational unit with its obverse process of whatever the proper term for life-building or growth is.
For higher organisms the same interplay extends to an existential proportion, where it garners its most divided and undivided attention.
The infliction of existential Nihilism as aforesaid can be afforded as the substrate for an impetus toward its counter, which denotes an acceptance of it, or neither a denial or suppression, nor distortion of it.
As has been mentioned elsewhere on the forum, a quandry develops when a skepticism diffuses into a cynicism by the overbearance of a nihilistic drive. Then what is problematic with cynicism: it accords a dishonest or costly prejudiced, close-ended, truncated account of World, which in turn can be extrapolated to indicate a schism which divide remains either static or is continued with subdivisions in one direction while without bridging the parts back with the context or whole in the other direction.

Jesus, talk about didactic, scholastic bullshit!!!

The retard still lives in its American world of racism, sexism, and all kinds of isms, and thinks within the republican-democrat dichotomy, naively, ignorantly, insolently presupposing all others do too.

I explained to retard more than once the difference between observing nature, and building one's ideals in alignment with it, and choosing an ideal based on how I currently feel like, and then searching for things in nature to support it, and disregarding the rest as some kind of -ist.

I also asked him to decide which of the two babies live, and if he thinks there are objective reasons he can take into account while weighing the options.
He wants to situate the discussion into real-life practical decisions, and when I do that, he ignores my example because it would expose his subjectivism for the retarded bullshit that it is.

Instead, more evasion tactics.

A cowardly, sickly, dependent mind, like his, only sees dependence in others.
The mirrors in his house are broken, warped...they make him appear huge, like a carnival queen.

It still thinks that the only reason you believe the things you say you believe in is because some other, Satyr in this case, says so.
Not because Satyr showed you, what you may have not seen, or interpreted what is seen in a way that made sense to you, and that having tested it, on your own, you held it to be most probable, but it was only because someone said so.
Imagine how naive he thinks you are.
A projection of himself at youth...now more mature in that he discovered this subjectivist bullshit to pretend to be wise.
Know why he is wise/
Because he no longer accepts the "I say so".
Nope, he's grown up, our buffoon has. He now awaits the official validation from the correct authorities and then feels it, a bit, before he integrates it into his subjective world-view.

It's as if I am performing some hypnotic mind-trick, and all of you are my "victims"...placing him in the role of Messiah, the liberator, the one who brings salvation to the lost.

Why?
Because a sick mind, like his, only believes on a "I say so" basis...and so he is a devout self-referential subjectivist, rejecting the existence of an objective world to test all subjective interpretations upon it.
His entire life is a series of being dominated by the emotional "I say so", util he came upon the Democratic "We say so" which he is defending now against reality - inter-subjectivity.
All the "freethinkers" gather, converse, joke around, then negotiate what reality should be.
Something all can live with...or, at least, the majority.

As for the other clown and artificial/natural environments...
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is my definition.
In brief, it is a measure of an organisms effect, influence over its own environment, which, in turn, affects it, indirectly.
all organism affect their environment to a degree.
Only man, as far as we know, affects his environment to a degree greater than the environment he intervened upon.
Which means that he is an organism that now determines his own destiny, both the intentional and unintentional (the good and the collateral negative effects).
This level of intervention is unprecedented on this planet, and we see its byproducts, not only in the techniques and technologies we live with, but with the pollution, both material and genetic, we are faced with - collateral effects demanding more interventions, which, in turn, produce more collateral effects, until our energies are increasingly directed towards correcting the effects, the negative collateral byproducts, of all our previous interventions.

This we call "progress".

That clown, who at 40 is still living on the streets, has no idea what our positions are here on KT.
He's never bothered to read beyond skimming.
Some vague we hate Jews, fascism, Greeks are great social-nationalism, with a touch of confusion, all his own, is what he thinks we are all about.
Clueless.
And he doesn't care, which is fine, and so he takes himself and extrapolates what we might be, if he believed what we do, or thinks we do.
Another bum who found in Marx what was missing in his life: pride.
All he has now is labour, and his utility belt.

The shit-Stain you should not bother with.
He's a classic American hypocrite.
The self-flatterer, hip-hop, braggart, is now playing it cool and mature.
The one who spent years posturing, declaring himself genius, displaying his drug ghangsta hustler lifestyle, where he "fucked" females by first offering narcotics, is now offering lessons in how to be mature, and civilized.
Have you seen the multiple pics of him next to pretty girls with his thumbs up, and that goofy geeky face all alight?
Yes....a tourist on spring break, happy to be so close to pussy, surprised that he is that he has to take a pic of it every single time, that he replaces his penis with his thumbs...up.
He really fucks crack whores and desperate lost fatherless girls, who only want to get high and are willing to do anything to get pissed drunk.
Yeah...reeeeeal mature.
He's a nearly forty year old who still thinks getting laid, or going to the Bahamas, or to ski, is a fucking big deal.
A man-child trapped in a retarded goofball's body.

The one who used obscure intellectuals to pretend he's above it all, and could not defend any position using his knowledge of these obscure intellectuals; the one who when you cornered him ran, casting behind him ink blots like a desperate spineless octopus, is now teaching you, and us all, what philosophy and reasoning is all about.
The one who belongs to a clan of subjectivists, Nihilists, where the validity of a position is determined by how popular it is, and how it makes us feel, is now trying to convince us he's reasonable; the one who is Modern and up-to-date and this is what he thinks is superior is now mature.

But listen, they've all thumped me, mauled me, exposed me, debunked me, defeated me, or will do so at any time, and have an entire Forum to find the evidence of it.
Surely they can provide evidence.
No, wait...they can't be bothered....what with their full, happy, lifestyles and busy daily routines....most of which is spent on ILP - a remarkable feat, if you think about it.

Arbiter of Change wrote:

 The retard still lives in its American world of racism, sexism, and all kinds of isms, and thinks within the republican-democrat dichotomy, naively, ignorantly, insolently presupposing all others do too.

Just out of curiosity, do you get extra strokes [licks?] when you're huffing and puffing? Just joshing.

Arbiter of Change wrote:

 I explained to retard more than once the difference between observing nature, and building one's ideals in alignment with it, and choosing an ideal based on how I currently feel like, and then searching for things in nature to support it, and disregarding the rest as some kind of -ist.

And I have explained to you any number of times that just because someone does not lap up Satyr's lectures here like a good doggie [and then regurgitate them around the internet], doesn't make him a retard.

Arbiter of Change wrote:

 I also asked him to decide which of the two babies live, and if he thinks there are objective reasons he can take into account while weighing the options.

Well, if the decison were up to me then, sure, abort the baby in the photo. I just don't pretend that my choice must be the choice of all others who wish not to be thought of as a retard.

And there's still the part that you ignore/evade:

And from his superior perch he and he alone is able to distinguish between the truly "healthy" babies and the truly "unhealthy" babies. Which babies should live and which babies should die? Which affliction sends them to the nursery and which affliction gets them shredded?

Ask Him. Then he'll ask Satyr. Then we'll all know which babies are in tune with the Objective World and which babies are not.

But then we get to the part where the baby is healthy but in order to bring it to term we have to force the pregnant woman to give birth.

Is that necessarily moral? Is that necessarily in sync with the Objective World?

Ask him.

Does it make any difference if the baby is black?

Ask him.

Does it make any different if the parents of the baby are Jewish, or "ethnic" or homosexuals or "liberals" or Marxists?

Ask him.

So, I'm asking.

And don't forget the new thread.

iambaboon wrote:

Well, if the decison were up to me then, sure, abort the baby in the photo.

WHICH baby from the 2 whose photos I linked?

And what are your reasons?
If you don't think your reasons are superior to those of the guy arguing that the other baby should be aborted, why would you make a decision at all, if it is all equal?

Come on, and don't forget to give me your reasons for why you would decide to kill one baby, and not the other, if you had to choose... you know, bring it down to earth

Satyr wrote:

Satyr showed you, what you may have not seen, or interpreted what is seen in a way that made sense to you, and that having tested it, on your own, you held it to be most probable, but it was only because someone said so.
Imagine how naive he thinks you are.

Yes, that is how I see it. Some of the things you say are new to me, others are just different interpretations, IMO more sensible ones, of what I already saw and knew. And iambaboon indeed acts like everybody agreeing with KT philosophy is just naive, mesmerized by you or whomever here.

I've never had a serious conversation with Zoot before... might as well have one now, to test him, and myself through my interaction with him. Who knows, we both might find it beneficial - I am in early stages of my philosophical development, so people who would be worthless in a conversation to you and some others, can be of use to me.

shit-Stain I'm not seriously interested in. He's the dullest, the least interesting of the clowns, and his child antics he considers arguments, are tiring.

Cameltoe wrote:

Jesus, talk about didactic, scholastic bullshit!!!

This suuuure is an inscrutable view from way on up hyere. Ya sure you don't want to come up yond' to Cloud Niner? There might be enough room to squeeze ya in, but you'd probably have to take seat on someone's lap.
However, I'm afraid that once it were time to head back to Earth that you would be reluctant to come down to us. Well, worry not: you can deinstructively revamp from up or down wherever. It matters not to me.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] the brain-dead, Modern female, pretending she has something worth listening to say.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] the brain-dead modern male, so desperate to turn his DOA mind into a virtue he indulges in mental masturbation.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] the decadent female who has turned her mental-masturbation as her meaning of life....wait until her sons get older, how much mental stroking can help her escape that reality?
Like her male counterparts, she enjoys mind-farting, here and there, as her "home" is already established as committed to the status quo, and whatever social, economic, investments she's made so far.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] the duo of modern male decadence, shooting off-blanks, destined to leave behind only the memory of their own decay and degeneration...and these two are but the tip of the iceberg if we add all the rest.
like his female counterpart all it takes is being seen, being noticed, being acknowledged, to give him that fix, that mental erection he can then rub until his destination is reached...all harmless, with no real world consequences....shooting blanks, dreaming of those exotic escapes in some pristine "wilderness" which are really parks.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] the descent of man, the Last Man, the Modern man.
In a pool of his own extreme, his own body's daily production, they wallow, like swine in mid.
Happy, engorged, totally numb, laughing away all those nasty reminders.

Opium dens were never this effective.
No, this is nihilism in all its glory.
In it multifarious manifestations.

It's all "not that bad" and cynicism ends at the belly, at the crotch - nobody can deny an orgasm, a moment of ecstatic bliss.