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Satyr
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PostSubject: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyMon Apr 19, 2021 8:29 am


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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyMon Apr 19, 2021 8:40 am

Freedom is determined by power.

The Last Men deny freedom because they are powerless, their will shriveled and sickly they rejoice at the thought of universal incarceration.
The "death of the one-god" is intolerable to the Last men, those who proclaim the "end of times" as an end in itself. End of philosophy.
End of willing.
End of intentionality.
Having lost confidence in his own powers, his own judgments, he dedicates himself to seeding insecurity in all.
"All is inevitable" is his self-comfroting mantra. His faith rests on the conviction that his own liberation from earthly authorities is also inevitable. His god was and is benevolent and loving. He is "on the right side of history".
He struggles to liberate himself knowing that it is all part of a divine will, and he the inevitable benefactor.

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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyMon Apr 19, 2021 8:56 am

The overcoming of man is inevitable.
Evolution Theory says as much, if not in such poetic ways.

Every culture has a guiding ideal - projected as an immanent future.
Past <> Present/Presence <> Future = Determined <> Determining <> Yet to be Determined
Immutable (god) <> Dynamic (real, existence) <> Ideal (objective)
Each culture has its own conception of an ideal man - its future man, its overman.
Every dogma/ideology defines and describes this ideal man.

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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyMon Apr 19, 2021 9:08 am

Because the ideals of nihilists are unrealizable - based on an erroneous evaluation of themselves (their own power), erroneous definition and understanding of the ideal - defining it beyond the experienced world - they abandon its realization to an external agency - to fate.
Their own failings become universal truths.

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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyTue Apr 20, 2021 9:00 am

I think the over-man generally tries to make the most of things, no matter what fate has done with him. Happily actuating the force that drives existence. Saying yes to life. Yes different cultures had different ideals. But life is about more than ideals. Life is about change. So the over-man embraces change and tries to work with it. Like sailing a ship. You don't make the wind but you have a device to harness part of it. In life we have a lot of forces influencing us, but we need to harness what we can, and an over-man would harness joyfully.
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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyTue Apr 20, 2021 9:03 am

The overman is a future man who has overcome the resentment of his own temporality.

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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyTue Apr 20, 2021 3:03 pm

By temporality I mean the expanding field of possibilities within which life discovers and is discovered - revealed - as probability.
No absolutes.
Life deals in approximations and probabilities - qualified possibilities.
It is uncertain, and so it is in a state of constant care - anxiety.
Time is how man measures this expanding field of possibilities - we call it Big Bang or expanding space/time, or inflating universe.
Within this expanding field of possibilities we have patterned (ordered) and non-patterned (chaotic) Energies, or interactions.
Energy simply means dynamic - in the process of, i.e., towards/away, movement/momentum etc.

Philosophy deals with this state of becoming, seeking patterns within the patterns, i.e., laws governing order, and ways to comprehend and to deal with chaos.
Art is one way.

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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyThu Apr 22, 2021 8:34 am

Jesus - as Saul reinvented him - was a Christian "overman", describing the reincarnation of the ideal from the tangible to the intangible.
For the Jews the over-man was always an abstraction of their collective identity - the dogma personified as a one-god they refused to depict in anthropomorphic ways.
Muslims adopted this from the Jews - as they did their entire spiritual foundations - refusing to depict their ideal man - their overman.

Christians, having adopted and corrupted pagan attitudes, had no such rules against idolatry - after the iconoclastic wars where it was all settled.
A fact that makes Catholicism and Orthodoxy an enemy to those that cannot tolerate any hint of Hellenism.
Protestantism was a rejection of these remnant of Indo-European spirituality - even in their warped forms; a rebellion against earthly mediating authorities, proposing a direct - personal, subjective - submission to an abstract, faceless, formless, intangible absolute authority.

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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyThu Apr 22, 2021 6:38 pm

Übermensch = a future man that has accepted his own participation in the determination of his own fate.

Higher power implies higher self-determination.
Will to Power is a movement towards increasing degree of self-determination, knowing that absolute self-determination is impossible, and coming to terms with it.

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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyThu Apr 22, 2021 6:42 pm

What has no beginning can have no end.
An individual participates in what is being determined - all life does so intentionally; higher life differs from lower life in the degree of its intentional participation.

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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyFri Apr 23, 2021 6:17 am

We see a pattern in those who surrender to the 'power of nil'.
It is the absence of absolutes that empowers them to refuse any hypothesis that does not meet their criterion: absolute evidence, absolute knowledge. If it falls short of omniscience or omnipotence then it is arbitrarily and conveniently denied - nullified.
There's always more that is unknown than is known, so this alone is an argument in support of their worship of 'nil'.
We see it in the current "identity crisis". If masculinity/femininity cannot be absolutely, defined, then it is ambiguous enough to be dismissed as a social construct, or as subjective.
There's always an occult, obscure, underlying order which will imminently be exposed.
There's a secret identity trapped in the apparent physical form. So, it may appear male, but if it feels female, then it is female.
The mind and tis abstractions, and the feelings that overwhelm it, are the only criterion. Not empiricism.
Looks are tricks - deceptive.
But this is only so for humans....why?
Because humans can use words - logos in the Christian sense - and so only humans have a "soul"...you see?
Convenient.
The soul is the occult, secret, underlying identity....similar to how chaos is merely concealed order; order that has yet to be discovered.

This works with any concept that these freaks want to dismiss and reject - nullify.
Like free-will.
So the empirical act, the experience, of choosing, is really a trick - illusory - because there is no choice at all.
There is a occult, secret agency at work, controlling, directing, from a hidden realm, they call it causality, or determinism.
Instead of a one-god, a totalitarian, authoritarian divinity, there is the absolute totalitarian, authority of universal order. More powerful than the religious personification because the secular version cannot be challenged.
Everything is inevitable...and could not have been any other way.
The individual thinks he is choosing, or an observer perceived him/her judging and choosing, but this is all an illusion. The empirical is a concealment for a hidden, occult, reality which is directing everything.
The individual is, in fact, a minion, a representation of this occult divinity, this authoritarian, totalitarian agency.
The individual is not an individual at all, but a chimera, a puppet, a manifestation of this agency's will.

They are convinced that they've overcome Abrahamic tropes, but this is not the case.
They've simply renamed the same concepts, and are retelling the same narratives using more updated lingo.
The one-god of Abraham was not killed....he was crucified, to be reborn as another idea.
The concept has not been overcome...and perhaps may never be by the mediocre masses....
Perhaps the overman is this overcoming, and these mediocre mases are the Last Men, that are addicted/obsessed with absolutes, because that is the only way they can cope with their own existence.
The unknown is converted from a source of anxiety into a source of self-medicating "empowerment".
If the absolute is unknown then anything, and I mean ANYTHING, is possible, no mater how unsubstantiated and absurd it may seem.

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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyWed Apr 28, 2021 9:38 am

Übermensch: the future man who overcomes his resentment of his own essence: as both product of chaos and victim of it.
That which makes life possible - as an ordering in the disordering - is also what is suffered as need, and is what damns life to mortality - linear temporal arrow, from near-absoltue oneness (order) towards near-absolute multiplicity (chaos); from near prefect, complete, certainty - absolute probability - towards increasing levels of uncertainty, i.e., expanding field of spatial/temporal possibilities, tending - moving - towards uniform possibilities, i.e., infinite possibilities, or chaos.

Overcoming Thanatos - life's essence as mortal - destined to die.
This is Nietzsche's future man - contrasting to the Last man - and how he meant resentiment.

This overcoming is experienced as power, i.e., indifference, producing higher levels of objectivity.
To be in harmony with an uncertain, uncaring, indifferent, cosmos is mirrored by the individual through his attainment of objectivity.

The absent of absolutes - absent absolute - is this absence of the probability for certainty, of omnipotence, of omniscience.
All life can do is act in accordance with tis approximations - its judgments, expressed through choice.
Certainty, omnipotence, omniscience, absolutism of any kind, is nihilistic, in that it negates the existent with a noetic - abstraction - lacking all external referents.
Phenomena nullified by noumena.

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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyTue May 04, 2021 8:00 pm

Power that is dependent on others, is concealed weakness.

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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyTue May 04, 2021 9:09 pm

The Overman or Uberman rely upon Overcoming, which is male in-fighting competition.

Admiration and Inspiration are one thing, but combined with Embodiment, a necessary fight ensues. Equality in life is temporary and necessitates conflict. The Modern-Postmodern myth of 'Equality' is rampant in Secularism and Abrahamism, and offered to the lesser masses of humanity as a lure and bait from those above. It was never meant nor intended that the Slave-mass or Slave-minded rise up to challenge the Authority or systems of power. In fact, the Trump presidency demonstrates in real-time what happens if any (political) 'Outsider' challenges the system-itself. The whole system will turn against an Outsider.

So it goes with any human, any person, that seeks admirable/noble traits of mankind. Anything that is worth having, and worth gaining, is also worth fighting for.

This also applies to the historical Philosophies of Man.


Any and All great thinkers, of any time, is pitted against all those before, and all those thereafter.

Those who preach 'Equality' are preaching a lie, or, admittedly, have already given-up and surrendered, before a fight has even taken place. These are the 'Audience' of the fight, not the fighters themselves, the nameless-masses. And so this is why and how they are so easily and readily taken by Nihilistic ideologies which appeal to their inner-desires, desires which they will never be able to fulfill themselves, and they know this, as a shameful concession. This shame, is the underpinning of the Secular ideology, and Abrahamic/Nihilistic, that preaches Equality and brotherhood, peace for all, rejection of "toxic masculinity", because it was never a fight they intended to take upon themselves.
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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptySun May 16, 2021 11:16 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyMon May 17, 2021 7:33 am

It is the conflict between Athens & Jerusalem.....Reason & Faith.
Both hide traps and can be taken too far.
Reason assumes all is knowable, implying all is governed by universal laws which man can know and eventually use for his own benefit.
Faith assumes that the unknown is benevolent or controllable through conviction and submission.

My positions cuts through both by admitting that reason is superior to faith but that not all is knowable because there is no absolute order, yet, that which is unknowable is not benevolent, nor can be known, bartered with ,groveled before because it is chaotic and so has no intent, no will, no motive.
I've never tried to bring reason and faith together, but to separate and distinguish the two.

I'm on the side of Athens - reason - because reason is a harmonization with the forces of order, knowing full well that the forces of disorder - chaos - are incomprehensible and can never be reasoned with, and that anyone who offers an explanation of the incomprehensible is a liar and a hypocrite, with ulterior motives.
We fight against chaos on the side of the gods means that we fight against chaos on the side of order - groveling, begging, expecting, something from chaos is foolish, claiming that chaos can be rationalized using mystification or occultism is absurd.

Recognizing that chaos is the source of order, necessitating consciousness and free-will, is to struggle with existence and how that which makes life possible is also what makes it mortal, condemning it to need/suffering.
Overman refers to this coming to terms with this conundrum - overcoming resentment for what is also an unwilling benefactor.
An organism is ordering - becoming - which is never completed because chaos also participates in this process.
This incompleteness is the source of existential anxiety and the feeling of lack, an absence, nostalgia for what never was...

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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyMon May 17, 2021 8:01 am

Kvasir wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzcD-LCKuNs
Her series are very reminiscent of the Reputations series, which are equally good. 👌🏽 I need to continue finishing watching the rest of her vids.

I think he lived a very relatable life.. especially in regard to religion and loss, when we are tested the most by our Faith and our belief in the existence of a God.. and then all we are left with is ourselves, in juxtaposition to the world/all else/a universal entirety.



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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyMon May 17, 2021 10:33 am

Datura wrote:

Her series are very reminiscent of the Reputations series, which are equally good. 👌🏽 I need to continue finishing watching the rest of her vids.

I think he lived a very relatable life.. especially in regard to religion and loss, when we are tested the most by our Faith and our belief in the existence of a God.. and then all we are left with is ourselves, in juxtaposition to the world/all else/a universal entirety.  

He tried to overcome his own resentment against the religious archetypal source of all Man's resentment. Striving towards self-absolution.That was heroic in itself.
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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyMon May 17, 2021 10:19 pm

Ironic that it was Socrates who compromised the Athenean instinct for reason by denouncing the gods and placing the fate of meaning in the hands of human beasts gathered in a city. The immense indifference of the Olympians inspired in the Greeks their audacious Reason; the absence of gods is a much more trivial situation that doesn't inspire to any such thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyMon May 17, 2021 10:51 pm

Socrates was later claimed as a prophet for the coming messiah when he suffered a crisis in his own convictions concerning the desire of men to know, as he did.
His self-sacrifice was held to be a sign of what was to come and an admission of failure to bring it about earlier.
The masses need faith; saviours need reason.
The masses go to the agora to find faith, and there they will always find those who are willing to exploit such a demand by manufacturing a steady supply of reasoned options, delivered with pretty prose and generous gestures.
When faith wanes reason rises to take its place, and when reason disappoints faith rises to its lofty perch to heal the wounds.

Socrates was a symptom of Athenian decline, surrendering his fate to those he mistakenly assumed could be salvaged.
The gods were gradually internalized, emerging through the arts and sciences to inspire from the depths of the human psyche.
There they faithfully merged into a singular idea to be taken literally, as they had been in mediocre minds.

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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyTue May 18, 2021 12:00 pm

I think Sokrates was basically the typical homosexual who doesn't like to be in nature, prefers the city.

Thus he didn't like the gods, which represent the wild.

Sok tried to take their place, be the wild (horned) one in the city.

But indeed those in whom he put his faith were just cattle.
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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyWed May 19, 2021 1:45 pm

I was reminded of one of my older threads titled "Nietzsche's Bitches"...which I can no longer find.
Must have erased it when I changed this forum.

Oh well...

Thing is....femininization makes romantic idealism and prose very seductive to emasculated minds and men-children who can never grow up because they cannot and have not gone though the proper rites of ascent.
It always comes up in regards to postmodernism and Nietzsche's imp[act on men-childre across the globe.

His psychological insights and beautiful mythological prose, make the girls swoon.
Idol worship in the Twilight of Idols.
The healer is loved by the patient; the liberator by the captive slaves he liberated; the fatherless boy finds a fahter-figure in a stranger who tells him what his own father should have, but could not, or did not....the girls falls in love with a man that resembles her father, or how she imagines her father should have been, or could have been like.

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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyWed May 19, 2021 2:05 pm

Satyr wrote:
I was reminded of one of my older threads titled "Nietzsche's Bitches"...which I can no longer find.
Must have erased it when I changed this forum.

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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyThu May 20, 2021 6:15 pm

Kvasir wrote:
Datura wrote:

Her series are very reminiscent of the Reputations series, which are equally good. 👌🏽 I need to continue finishing watching the rest of her vids.

I think he lived a very relatable life.. especially in regard to religion and loss, when we are tested the most by our Faith and our belief in the existence of a God.. and then all we are left with is ourselves, in juxtaposition to the world/all else/a universal entirety.  
He tried to overcome his own resentment against the religious archetypal source of all Man's resentment. Striving towards self-absolution.That was heroic in itself.

The self-absolution struggle is real yo!

Some take great offence in being labelled as being born with original sin, that a person is then told that they need to spend their whole life repenting for.
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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyTue May 25, 2021 3:01 pm






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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyWed May 26, 2021 1:30 pm

Satyr wrote:
Freedom is determined by power.

The Last Men deny freedom because they are powerless, their will shriveled and sickly they rejoice at the thought of universal incarceration.
The "death of the one-god" is intolerable to the Last men, those who proclaim the "end of times" as an end in itself. End of philosophy.
End of willing.
End of intentionality.
Having lost confidence in his own powers, his own judgments, he dedicates himself to seeding insecurity in all.
"All is inevitable" is his self-comfroting mantra. His faith rests on the conviction that his own liberation from earthly authorities is also inevitable. His god was and is benevolent and loving. He is "on the right side of history".
He struggles to liberate himself knowing that it is all part of a divine will, and he the inevitable benefactor.

Left shoe is determined by power. Why care about left shoe?
You tend to seek some 'absolutes'. There are none. You must go deeper into classical sciences. Nietzsche only put an abstract of the Greeks into new terms like "Übermensch".

Ancient Greeks = Übermenschen
Last man = Chinese/buddhists. They don't believe in god.

Must go in Nietzsche's steps until the end.
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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyWed May 26, 2021 2:09 pm

No absolutes...you haven't read through the thread.
All cultures have their own version of the Übermenschen.
That we focus on the Hellenic is because Nietzsche has dominated the minds of men-children and modern minds.

Man is transcended in multiple direction towards multiple ideals.
Western man is focused on its dominant meme, Hellenism.
Jews have their own....Christians their own...Muslims their own...Buddhists their own...

I divide the versions into cultural categories and metaphysical categories: Realism & Nihilism.
Each category has its own version of the ideal man, transcending man
For nihilism, no matter its variant, the a variation of the Last Man is the ideal man.
For the realists there are multiple version of the transcending ideal, future man.

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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptySat May 29, 2021 7:53 pm



Nietzschean Dionysianism is a push back against the modern scientific rationalism, and postmodern nihilism, which is why there is so much emphasis on these insights. However, this is a precarious reactionary extreme of the other side of the coin, and what is missing is the crucial balance of Apollonian and Dionysian which can produce greatness that stands the test of time. Notice, after all, how attention is seldom paid to the Apollonian dichotomy, suggesting a distinct philosophical distress of the modern mind, reverting back to blind power relations, a state of chaos.
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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptySat May 29, 2021 8:00 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Übermensch Übermensch EmptyWed Jun 09, 2021 4:18 pm

Nietzsche's overman - the transvaluator of values - is now sold as the transsexual, overcoming human sexual identities, towards the hermaphrodite one-god.
The Abrahamic Übermensch is a transsexual who wills his own sexuality, becoming a divine hermaphrodite unifying the two sexes - binaries - into a complete singular unity.  

Transcending man necessitates the transcending of the physical - the body. 

Man choses to be what he wills, including male or female, or some other invented gender.
Man becomes god in god's place.
This is how the death of god - one-god - is understood.
Man wills himself as any form, any sex, any kind...man becomes his own creator.

This is the power these charlatans are talking about.
The will to become anything, with the power of logos - to declare it so, to speak it into existence.

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