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 knowledge vs wisdom

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Dan~~



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PostSubject: knowledge vs wisdom knowledge vs wisdom EmptyMon Aug 02, 2021 9:06 am

If somebody has a lot of knowledge,
but is unwise, they will miss use and miss apply
what they know, and it helps them not.
If somebody has a lot of wisdom,
they can know deeply with even a small
amount of knowledge.

Religiously speaking :
Memorizing the whole bible
is of no benefit without wisdom.
Wisdom in its highest form,
will be able to grasp some godly things.
But foolishness is a death sentence
to truth in spirituality.
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Satyr
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Satyr

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PostSubject: Re: knowledge vs wisdom knowledge vs wisdom EmptyMon Aug 02, 2021 11:01 am

Yes...
I use my own terminology, and first define the terms thusly:
Knowledge: data, information, abstractions, both first and second hand.
Understanding: recognition of patterns within the data.

Wisdom: appreciation of the relationship of knowledge and understanding with reality.
Patterns that refer to nothing outside the mind - ideology, dogma - is evaluated and placed within a context of utility, relative to the individual's motives, i.e., goals, objectives.

I use triangulation:
Subject (observer, consciousness); Object/Objective; Effort, Distance, required to harmonize or unify subject with objective.
To put it in another way:
Subject = sum of all past, nature.
Object = projection of subject's knowledge/understanding into the future as a destination, a desired objective.
Will (effort, nurture) = what is done in the present to attain the objective.

Wisdom = the accurate appreciation (approximation) of all three parts, over a period of time and after evaluating all previous attempts successfully - adjusting evaluations and accurately identifying errors in past evolutions (jugements).
Wisdom begins by critiquing its own evaluations or the terminology it uses to describe and define itself and its objective so as to eliminate all over- under-estimations.
This takes a period of time, or requires guidance, or a particular demeanour of integrity, because most are prone to over or underestimate themselves or their objective affecting their evaluation of the work, effort, distance required.

In religious contexts....the objective is to know or understand or attain the divine, or what we call "god".
Immediately we recognize the need to define the terms as accurately as possible, and to bring them within the domain of the feasible, if one is honest about the objective.
Christianity - Abrahamism - mis-defines - defines terms out of existence, i.e., placing them in an imaginary (abstract) realm beyond space/time, in effect making them unattainable, and contrary to experienced reality i.e., ideological and spiritual nihilism.

My views on the matter are clearly defined and describes as [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
The motive is mistaken or intentionally deceptive.
The motive is not to attain an objective other than self-comforting, self-concealment, self-narcosis...
A false objective is presented, e.g., truth, and then intentionally defined in ways that make it absurd so as to excuse one's own failures by making them universal and inevitable.
Nihilism is defensive. It's underlying motive is to evade being perceived by another, or by others - a devastating possibility for a social species that is awakening to itself in relation to otherness, from an objective - third person - perspective.
God - in the Abrahamic dogma - is simply the idealization and/or the collectivization of otherness. "God's judgement" is the judgement before the ideal or the collective. "Sin" is not attaining the ideal in the eyes of the collective.
The method is to make concepts as absurd or meaningless s possible, or to subjectivize all judgements so as to escape, evade, being perceived.

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Dan~~



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Join date : 2020-11-27
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PostSubject: Re: knowledge vs wisdom knowledge vs wisdom EmptyMon Aug 02, 2021 11:34 am

I read your reply.
Thanks for replying.

Like the difference between silver and gold,
is there something like wisdom which is beyond most common wisdom?
Like a super-wisdom or para-wisdom?
I equate the will to live with the most noble of wills.
Willing to live wisely / carefully.
Something to think about.
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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: knowledge vs wisdom knowledge vs wisdom EmptyMon Aug 02, 2021 11:41 am

Will to live gets in the way of will to know and understand.

When the objective is "objectivity" and not "immortality" it changes the triangulation.
Will to pleasure usurps will to wisdom, because wisdom must accept need/suffering as a indispensable part of existence.
The objective defines the subjective.

Will to live is what all life, all animals, follow whether they know it or not.
There's nothing noble about it.
Nobility is about placing something above one's own life and pleasure - life for something, fight for something, evaluate yourself before something other than oneself.

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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: knowledge vs wisdom knowledge vs wisdom EmptyMon Aug 02, 2021 11:44 am

Dan~~ wrote:
I read your reply.
is there something like wisdom which is beyond most common wisdom?
Common sense...is increasingly becoming uncommon.
Practical wisdom, everyday wisdom....is low level.

We live in a world where people no longer trust their own senses.
Where can we go from there?

Wisdom above the average: objectivity.
Approaching objectivity is the approach towards the divine.
Subjective/Objective harmony.

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Kvasir
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Kvasir

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PostSubject: Re: knowledge vs wisdom knowledge vs wisdom EmptyMon Aug 02, 2021 11:59 am

I think wisdom can be understood as a state of intellectual homeostasis. The wise man is drawn to a simple life because wisdom simplifies and seeks out simplicity. The "simple" can be thought of as an amalgam of a whole, or of an incorporation/assimilation of sensual data and knowledge representing an ideal/idea. Everything returns to its original source, nature clarifies/simplifies, and so wisdom is a return to Being. Thus, the wise man is laconic and has little interest in words or recitation of knowledge, because he intuitively grasps how it is all connected, seeing the ordered process, the patterns, and therefore has no need to exert effort describing it with verbosity. His knowledge has fermented into an orienting, discerning awareness which is based on pattern recognition. Monks speak of "spiritual peace", this is what they mean, the ordered equalibrium of acumen that has been reached after much toil and effort spent in learning; self becoming in sync with world, which manifests a type of freedom.

Wisdom is self-knowledge that comes from knowledge. Those who are obsessed with knowledge, like Parodites on ILP, have no self to incorporate it into, they are void of self, and need to replenish it, replace it, constantly from sources of knowledge and understanding that they cannot give themselves.
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PostSubject: Re: knowledge vs wisdom knowledge vs wisdom EmptyMon Aug 02, 2021 12:18 pm

Kvasir wrote:
I think wisdom can be understood as a state of intellectual homeostasis. The wise man is drawn to a simple life because wisdom simplifies and seeks out simplicity. The "simple" can be thought of as an amalgam of a whole, or of an incorporation/assimilation of sensual data and knowledge representing an ideal/idea.
Hellenic balance....a constate state of riding "the dynamic waves" of existence. Surfing.

Animal/Manimal simplicity uses pleasure as the easiest form of evaluating how self relates to environment, i.e., ideal (abstraction) with the real (world).
So, we can say, it is the most common form of evaluating equilibrium - warped when institutions, based on memes, intervene to protect the individual, based on genes.
Sheltering does not produce wisdom.  

Kvasir wrote:
Wisdom is self-knowledge that comes from knowledge. Those who are obsessed with knowledge, like Parodites on ILP, have no self to incorporate it into, they are void of self, and need to replenish it, replace it, constantly from sources of knowledge and understanding that they cannot give themselves.
A real life example of over-estimating oneself, as a method of concealing a secret under-estimation of oneself; using data/knowledge to compensate for a lack of understanding or, in this case, using an ulterior motive to hide the real motive of wanting to be appreciated, desired; afraid to be seen, or to be judged...or to be understood.
Feigning complexity, via knowledge, is a way of evading detection.

As a general rule of thumb, those pretending to be complex are real simple whereas the truly complex try to simplify.
The simple intentionally obfuscate and defer to ambiguity, or through obscure intellectual references they imply, because they are afraid.

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Kvasir
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Kvasir

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PostSubject: Re: knowledge vs wisdom knowledge vs wisdom EmptyThu Aug 26, 2021 12:14 am

Ideas and language must be understood as tools to navigate the world, and to create in it. If we understand ideas as useful and purposeful and not ends in themselves, then we can more than make use of them, but even grasp a deeper meaning to their essence, their versatility, opening up possibilities of greater creative value.
To view something in these terms is to accept its limitations as well as its potential. If an artist understands that the ideal of creation he sets for himself can offer boundless power, regardless of whether he attains it or not, then he accesses exactly that type of boundless power through the acceptance of all that the ideal is or can become for him.
The attainment of an ideal is not the purpose, which sets up an even greater purpose to be attained. Conversely, there are those who suffer from an inability to accept limitations and require that these tools of consciousness must provide them an absolute answer, an absolute solution. They suffer from the feeling of their own mortality, their own weaknesses. They are trapped within the disappointment of this desire not being met, and the fact that they are trapped in this interminable disappointment, means that they find themselves lost in the sea without the compass that they expected would lead them to a utopia, but instead they found only more sea and more uncertainty.

This is exactly the importance of wisdom and what it provides, and its invaluable power: a calm orientation with existence, that is, a balance with it, in what it gives us and what it takes from us, and that it allows us no rest, no respite from suffering, and thus no absolute state, because the very existence of suffering, of need, makes any absolute state of rest impossible.
Wisdom promotes a mindset based on making peace with our weaknesses and limitations.
That we must endure needing what we cannot have, but that this endurance can become converted power, a conserving of negative energy which opens up unbridled productive strength.
This is not to say of course that by making peace with what we cannot become, that we resign ourselves to a stagnate condition, a regressive self-defeatism. On the contrary, being filled with the debilitating anxiety of seeking a finality to our searching and suffering, is in fact this stagnate regressive state that keeps us trapped in a cloistered space, frantically looking for an escape. We then create our own web that we ensnare ourselves in. Accepting existence as it is means accepting ourselves as we are, but also what we can become, by contrast of what we can never become.


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Kvasir
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PostSubject: Re: knowledge vs wisdom knowledge vs wisdom EmptyTue Oct 12, 2021 11:01 am

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