All things have more/less equal value

So far.. I haven't seen much philosophizing going on here.. I'm a little disappointed.

The lie is that there are some things and behaviours that are wholly or nearly wholly good/this and some that are wholly or nearly wholly bad/that. Reality is a mix of opposites, of yin and yang, ever cycling. This lie takes many forms: from the Catholic advocating certain behaviours over others: faith, hope and love contra reason, fear and hate, to Dionysian advocating sex, wine and ritual dance.

Although I prefer reason to faith, faith has it's pluses too, both intrinsically and extrinsically. Reason entails a sense proudful knowing, faith entails a sense of humble knowing. Is one inherently better than another? ? I prefer relying on the self, for knowing. There is something profoundly servile, weak and.. effeminate about faith, something I've always despised, but then again, I've always thought of myself as rather intelligent, where as those who think of themselves as rather average, or inferior in that department, may find comfort in conformity.

You see, what works for one person, at one time and place, may not work for another, at another time and place. 'Tis why nature equipped us with opposing sets of character traits: right and left, male and female, reason and faith, hope and fear, dominance and submission, courage and cowardice, pride and humility, or pride and admiration, love and callous disregard, or love and hate. Hmmm, so many ways to group these, but is there a difference between the concepts on the left and the concepts on the right, curious?

You see, our peculiar society has sold us a peculiar lie, it has taught us that dilligence is better than sloth (work hard), it has taught us hedonism is better than asceticism (play hard). It has taught us the presence or maximization of technological innovation, producerism, consumerism and materialism is eternally preferable to the absence or minimization of technological innovation, etc. The truth is: one can get along just fine with little soap, without computer, without television, without car, without house.

A car, for example, is a heavy burden to pay. They're expensive: you have to buy it, you have to buy gas, you have to maintain it, you have to work harder, doing a job you probably loathe, you have to clean it (well, I suppose you don't have to do that), you have to get insurance, you could get in an accident: you could run someone over or someone could run you over. There's so many cons about owning a car, but because people are simple, they only see the pros. Not to mention global warming (if it exists) and peak oil.. and the loud, hideous sounds they make, and how they haven't made our lives any easier, our society merely increased the demands on us to compensate for our increased mobility. Nevermind all that, you know what, I just don't care for them, I don't need one, I'm quite happy taking the bus or traveling by foot, I like the fresh air, and the excersise, I don't give a damn about cars, I like my fridge, my stove and my computer, though.

You see, through morality, through conscience or conscientiousness (whether it be of the consequentialist, or virtue ethicist variety), human beings have the ability to modify their behaviour and the behaviour of others, in addition to our environment. I believe that: because we're relatively stupid (at an early stage in our biological and cultural evolution) we're doing a piss poor job of finding the good, if it even exists. Reality is very complicated, these metanarrativists would have us believe: life is simple, with a set of absolutes and thou shalt nevers. More than that, we want to believe it is, we don't want to see reality for what it really is: shit, crap, garbage. The apatheist, in the sense I'm using it, sees things as they truly are: a little black, a little white, and a lot of grey. He spends more time spectating, contemplating, pondering and reflecting than participating in life. He has partially retired, retreated and resigned from the world. He pursues nothings with intensity, he's skeptical, apprehensive. Sloth follows from apathy. The slothful person doesn't do much, because nothing, or very little actually needs to be done. There is nothing to do, nothing to get excited about. Well, I'll leave you with that for now, I'm sure many of you are unaquainted, or unaccustomed to such thoughts..

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So far.. I haven't seen much philosophizing going on here.. I'm a little disappointed.

Wait a little bit more. I've only just got started. The day is not even finished yet.

So far I've been just pissing in the wind.

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Wait a little bit more. I've only just got started. The day is not even finished yet.

So far I've been just pissing in the wind.

Cool, I can't wait for you to.. showcase your philosophy with reason in addition to wit, humour and zeal.

apatheist wrote:

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Wait a little bit more. I've only just got started. The day is not even finished yet.

So far I've been just pissing in the wind.

Cool, I can't wait for you to.. showcase your philosophy with reason in addition to wit, humour and zeal.

I don't put much merit into reason like other thinkers and philosophers do especially upon my discovery that human beings do very little reasoning to begin with.

I think alot of people want to believe that human beings are reasonable of course I don't really buy into that narrative myself. Reason really doesn't concern me all that much.

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I don't put much merit into reason like other thinkers and philosophers do especially upon my discovery that human beings do very little reasoning to begin with.

I think people want to believe that human beings are reasonable of course I don't really buy into that narrative myself.

Well, there's a lot of other, faculties involved in our decision making, reason often gets pushed to the side by the lusts of the flesh and spirit. I just think that: this is primarily a philosophy forum, so some emphasis ought to be put on reason, but also on creativity, and all that too.

apatheist wrote:

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I don't put much merit into reason like other thinkers and philosophers do especially upon my discovery that human beings do very little reasoning to begin with.

I think people want to believe that human beings are reasonable of course I don't really buy into that narrative myself.

Well, there's a lot of other, faculties involved in our decision making, reason often gets pushed to the side by the lusts of the flesh and spirit. I just think that: this is primarily a philosophy forum, so some emphasis ought to be put on reason, but also on creativity, and all that too.

I would argue that lust and desire is the primary drives of human beings not reason.

Reason is secondary to lust or desire in achieving their ends.

Reason is submissive to both not the other way around.

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I would argue that lust and desire is the primary drives of human beings not reason.

Reason is secondary to lust or desire in achieving their ends.

Reason is submissive to both not the other way around.

Hmmm, difficult to quantify, most of my mental energy and activity is concentrated in my cerebral cortex, I'm sure, but that is fine, philosophize however you wish, but I'm here to reason, primarily.

apatheist wrote:

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I would argue that lust and desire is the primary drives of human beings not reason.

Reason is secondary to lust or desire in achieving their ends.

Reason is submissive to both not the other way around.

Hmmm, difficult to quantify, most of my mental energy and activity is concentrated in my cerebral cortex, I'm sure, but that is fine, philosophize however you wish, but I'm here to reason, primarily.

Reason is overrated. Give into your primal instincts.

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He spends more time spectating, contemplating, pondering and reflecting than participating in life.

Actually, change of mind, the apatheist (me) doesn't necessarily advocate mental over physical activity, the apatheist doesn't advocate anything, it's more a way of seeing the world, than a set of rights and wrongs, or eternal, absolute preferences.. I think, still underdevelopment.

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Reason is overrated. Give into your primal instincts.

I used to, but then I got bored of that. I say everything is overrated.

apatheist wrote:

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Reason is overrated. Give into your primal instincts.

I used to, but then I got bored of that. I say everything is overrated.

Don't get too bored. Wouldn't want you to commit suicide or something similar as that is the only way out.

(That or by doing something that would require others to kill yourself so that you wouldn't be left with the hassle of the task by yourself.)

Unguided by reason, our primal instincts can get us into trouble. I'm just reminding you, I'm not saying you should one way or the other, but there are benefits to living a sober life.

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Don't get too bored. Wouldn't want you to commit suicide or something similar as that is the only way out.

(That or by doing something that would require others to kill yourself so that you wouldn't be left with the hassle of the task.)

I haven't seriously contemplated committing suicide, but I have contemplated killing others, and living on the street as you do/have. Don't get me wrong, I'm not normally a sadist, but, life can be fraught with existential despair, no?

apatheist wrote:

Unguided by reason, our primal instincts can get us into trouble. I'm just reminding you, I'm not saying you should one way or the other, but there are benefits to living a sober life.

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Don't get too bored. Wouldn't want you to commit suicide or something similar as that is the only way out.

(That or by doing something that would require others to kill yourself so that you wouldn't be left with the hassle of the task.)

I haven't seriously contemplated commiting suicide, but I have contemplated killing others, and living on the street as you do/have. Don't get me wrong, I'm not normally a sadist, but, life can be fraught with existential despair, no?

Sobriety is boring. Pure ecstasy and reckless abandonment is more fun or adventurous.

You only get in trouble if you get caught hence the acquiring skills needed to be a successful social deviant.

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I haven't seriously contemplated commiting suicide, but I have contemplated killing others, and living on the street as you do/have. Don't get me wrong, I'm not normally a sadist, but, life can be fraught with existential despair, no?

I'm just saying if life bores you so much death is the only way out.

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but I have contemplated killing others, and living on the street as you do/have.

Everybody has. It's the path that is the least traversed.

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I'm not normally a sadist,

Everybody is a sadist in degrees. Everybody likes to see their success over others, no?

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but, life can be fraught with existential despair, no?

Which can be overcome with the right mental perceivement.

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Sobriety is boring. Pure ecstasy and reckless abandonment is more fun or adventurous.

You only get in trouble if you get caught hence the acquiring skills needed to be a successful social deviant.

Sobriety is healthy, pleasant, tranquil and serene. I'm not interested in stimulation and excitement right now, I'm interested in ataraxia, though things could change. Your way of life may be good for you, now, but it is not the way of life, it is a way.

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I'm just saying if life bores you so much death is the only way out.

I keep myself entertained with my mind, for now.

apatheist wrote:

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Sobriety is boring. Pure ecstasy and reckless abandonment is more fun or adventurous.

You only get in trouble if you get caught hence the acquiring skills needed to be a successful social deviant.

Sobriety is healthy, pleasant, tranquil and serene. I'm not interested in stimulation and excitement right now, I'm interested in ataraxia, though things could change. Your way of life may be good for you, now, but it is not the way of life, it is a way.

I prefer the thrill of life. It's the only way to feel alive.

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I keep myself entertained with my mind, for now.

Trust me, eventually that will become boring where you will want to lose it all.

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Everybody has. It's the path that is the least traversed.

Yes and unless my life changes considerably for the worse, I don't see.. yeah.

apatheist wrote:

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Everybody has. It's the path that is the least traversed.

Yes and unless my life changes considerably for the worse, I don't see.. yeah.

See which way the random pendulum shifts.

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Everybody is a sadist in degrees. Everybody likes to see their success over others, no?

Everyone laughs when other people slip and fall: comedy is sadism.

apatheist wrote:

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Everybody is a sadist in degrees. Everybody likes to see their success over others, no?

Everyone laughs when other people slip and fall: comedy is sadism.

Everybody in some sense is a sadist differing only in degrees.

Comedy is the approved sense of sadism.

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Which can be overcome with the right mental perceivement.

..or the right medications.

apatheist wrote:

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Which can be overcome with the right mental perceivement.

..or the right medications.

Only if you believe in all that bullshit in becoming a medicated drone, monkey, or automaton.

Psychiatry is one of the state's favorite forms of modern witchcraft.

It fits perfect with the state's religion of public socialism.

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Only if you believe in all that bullshit in becoming a medicated drone or automaton.

Psychiatry is one of the state's favorite forms of modern witchcraft.

I was thinking more along the lines of alcohol, marijuana or mushrooms, but psychiatry may work for some, personally I'm not into prescription meds either.

apatheist wrote:

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Only if you believe in all that bullshit in becoming a medicated drone or automaton.

Psychiatry is one of the state's favorite forms of modern witchcraft.

I was thinking more along the lines of alcohol, marijana or mushrooms, but psychiatry may work for some, personally I'm not into prescription meds either.

Drugs are for people that want to escape reality in whatever delusion they fantasize about themselves or the world around them. I don't seek to escape reality where instead I seek to become a master of it.

It's the sobriety of the many deceptions of so called reason that I can do without.

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Drugs are for people that want to escape reality in whatever delusion they fantasize about themselves or the world around them. I don't seek to escape reality where instead I seek to become a master of it.

It's not necessarily an escape from reality, it could be interpreted as, reality enhancement, or reality plus. I thought you said just a while ago, the sober life is a bore, hmmm, this conversation has took an unexpected turn for me. I'm not for or against drugs, they have a time and a place. Shrooms for example, aren't a fantasy drug, they merely alter, not impair, alter your perception of reality, in some ways, for the better, in other ways, for the worse. For example, they improve your creativity, you see connections you wouldn't normally see, often between disparate things. My interest in philosophy was sparked by lsd.

apatheist wrote:

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Drugs are for people that want to escape reality in whatever delusion they fantasize about themselves or the world around them. I don't seek to escape reality where instead I seek to become a master of it.

It's not necessarily an escape from reality, it could be interpreted as, reality enhancement, or reality plus. I thought you said just a while ago, the sober life is a bore, hmmm, this conversation has took an unexpected turn for me. I'm not for or against drugs, they have a time and a place. Shrooms for example, aren't a fantasy drug, they merely alter, not impair, alter your perception of reality, in some ways, for the better, in other ways, for the worse. For example, they improve your creativity, you see connections you wouldn't normally see, often between disparate things. My interest in philosophy was sparked by lsd.

Drugs stunt mental perceivement. I don't buy into that sort of arguement of yours all that much.

Although being the occasional alcoholic I can see the pleasure in cutting loose every once in a great while but make no mistake the life long drug addict seeks to escape the world and reality as we know it.

Such a individual is a escapist. I see individuals like that all the time.

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Drugs stunt mental perceivement. I don't buy into that sort of arguement all that much.

Although being the occasional alcoholic I can see the pleasure in cutting loose every once in awhile but make no mistake the life long drug addict seeks to escape the world and reality as we know it.

I have no major qualms with that. It is a little.. pitiful. It can shorten your lifespan and take a toll on your health, but there are obvious hedonic benefits. So, what do you do for fun? Your avatar suggests you're a card player, a gambler. A rogue, a theif perhaps?

apatheist wrote:

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Drugs stunt mental perceivement. I don't buy into that sort of arguement all that much.

Although being the occasional alcoholic I can see the pleasure in cutting loose every once in awhile but make no mistake the life long drug addict seeks to escape the world and reality as we know it.

I have no major qualms with that. It is a little.. pitiful. It can shorten your lifespan and take a toll on your health, but there are obvious hedonic benefits. So, what do you do for fun? Your avatar suggests you're a card player, a gambler. A rogue, a theif perhaps?

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but there are obvious hedonic benefits.

Escaping reality I suppose is a kind of hedonism. It personally isn't my kind or variation but I can see other people's draw to it I suppose.

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A rogue, a theif perhaps?

That's what I was trying to go with picking the avatar.

Let's just say I'm a aspiring thief, criminal, hustler, con artist, scammer, and frauder.

Once I get out of this being homeless bit that's what I plan on mastering.

I'm done playing by society's bullshit rules. I seek to undermine society for the years of bullshit it has put me through.

Anymore I'm becoming a modern day pirate or criminal opportunist.

Of course I work alone only. It's better that way. There's only one person I truely trust.

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Escaping reality I suppose is a kind of hedonism. It personally isn't my kind or variation but I can see other people's draw to it I suppose.

Drugs aren't just about numbing pain, they're also about pleasure, marajuana gives us pleasure, it titillates our senses, and so does alcohol, it releases our inhibitions, makes us feel more alive in some ways. Ecstacy can make you.. well, ecstatic. Everything is an escape, or rather, an enhancement of reality, now you're starting to sound like the austere spartan. A girl with pretty makeup is, in a sense, escaping or enhancing reality. When we wear clothes with bright, fluorescent colors or cook with herbs and spices. When you travel on vacation, are you not escaping your "real" life? ? I'm not necessarily for or against such activities, there's a time and place for everything, that is maturity, I think. You'd be amazed by how things glow when you're on ecstacy, how ethereal and romantic everything seems. There's always a time, or an excuse to drink, my father always said, my team won, my team lost, people drink to celebrate life, in addition to escape from it. We do drugs for pleasure.

apatheist wrote:

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Escaping reality I suppose is a kind of hedonism. It personally isn't my kind or variation but I can see other people's draw to it I suppose.

Drugs aren't just about numbing pain, they're also about pleasure, marajuana gives us pleasure, it titillates our senses, and so does alcohol, it releases us from our inhibitions, makes us feel more alive in some ways. Ecstacy can make you.. well, ecstatic. Everything is an escape, or rather, an enhancement of reality, now you're starting to sound like the austere spartan. A girl with pretty makeup is, in a sense, escaping or enhancing reality. When we wear clothes with bright, fluorescent colors or cook with herbs and spices. When you travel on vacation, are you not escaping your "real" life? ? I'm not necessarily for or against such activities, there's a time and place for everything, that is maturity, I think. You'd be amazed by how things glow when you're on ecstacy, how ethereal and romantic everything seems. There's always time, or an excuse to drink, my father always said, my team won, my team lost, people drink to celebrate life, in addition to escape from it. We do drugs for pleasure.

Well there is such a thing as overdoing it as you said in going against your own survival and so on.

A little bit of restraint in all things is necessary.

Too much of anything can be a self destructive thing.

Even a serial killer needs to restrain themselves if were going to talk about radical hedonism in action where need to go dormat for large periods of time otherwise if they don't they expose themselves too much to the authorities that chasing them.

If only Bundy would of learned that lesson. Why use that example? I don't know.

It just seems comical to use and maybe my mind has been filled with violence as of yet fairly recent. (Shrugs)