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PostSubject: Anti Humanism   Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:36 am



I shall like to make this a thread devoted purely to deconstructing humanism by putting it on the end of a fire pit left to roast upon flame.

First of all to get things started here I'd like to critique the so called focal point of humanism with it's assumption that human beings are naturally 'good' or cooperative in it's social state of existence.

Within the elaborate study of human history this can't be any further from reality with the territorial disposition of human beings that ends up with the brutality of war and the social inequalities of tyrannical oppression.

If anything humanity's malice towards itself in past, present, and what looks like the inevitable future should be proof enough of how man's nature is anything but 'good' or built purely on a basis of social cooperation since neither dominates human behavioral interaction whatsoever.

Here in this thread I argue that humanity's nature is naturally savage, brutish, malicious, violent, inequal, chaotic, and vicious the complete opposite of humanist assumptions.

It is here that I argue from the point of view of the anti humanist for I affirm reality over novel idealism, delusion, and fantasy that pervades philosophical humanism.

Moreover there is nothing moral or ethical displayed in human behavior and existence that I feel needs warranting any attention beyond the clever manipulative often enough deceitful deceptions that both beliefs play in human social hierarchy maintaining the status quo.

This is my first defensive position of many more to come as I plan on adding my thoughts to this subject overtime.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti Humanism   Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:56 am

When I sleep and awaken each night, and day, I die, only to be reborn.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti Humanism   Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:06 pm

sweetpea wrote:
When I sleep and awaken each night, and day, I die, only to be reborn.

What does that mean? How does any of that do with the nature of this thread topic?
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PostSubject: Re: Anti Humanism   Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:26 pm

You do realize, Joker, that you've affirmed a notion of human nature:
Quote :
Here in this thread I argue that humanity's nature is naturally savage, brutish, malicious, violent, inequal, chaotic, and vicious the complete opposite of humanist assumptions.
All humanism purports to do is to take as its ground some concept of human nature, and work from this to a coherent philosophy. Hobbes has already done this with the human nature you've proposed. To this end, not only have you failed in destroying humanism, but you've also failed in adding anything at all original or productive to the discourse. Surely, you've read Hobbes?

What's more, there is a relatively strong tradition of anti-humanists. Do some post-structuralist reading. To reiterate: you've both missed the point, and in doing so, have failed to add anything substantial at all to the discourse. Again: your ressentiment gets the better of you.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti Humanism   Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:33 pm

without-music wrote:
You do realize, Joker, that you've affirmed a notion of human nature:
Quote :
Here in this thread I argue that humanity's nature is naturally savage, brutish, malicious, violent, inequal, chaotic, and vicious the complete opposite of humanist assumptions.
All humanism purports to do is to take as its ground some concept of human nature, and work from this to a coherent philosophy. Hobbes has already done this with the human nature you've proposed. To this end, not only have you failed in destroying humanism, but you've also failed in adding anything at all original or productive to the discourse. Surely, you've read Hobbes?

What's more, there is a relatively strong tradition of anti-humanists. Do some post-structuralist reading. To reiterate: you've both missed the point, and in doing so, have failed to add anything substantial at all to the discourse. Again: your ressentiment gets the better of you.

Quote :
You do realize, Joker, that you've affirmed a notion of human nature:
And?

Quote :
All humanism purports to do is to take as its ground some concept of human nature, and work from this to a coherent philosophy. Hobbes has already done this with the human nature you've proposed.

To a certain extent he did but at the same time he was somewhat limited with the fear of religious persecution of his own time to go more indepth on the topic.

Quote :
To this end, not only have you failed in destroying humanism, but you've also failed in adding anything at all original or productive to the discourse. Surely, you've read Hobbes?

Humanism in the end will destroy itself due to it's self destructive structure. I don't really have to do anything.

Yes I have read Hobbes.

I fail adding anything original? I don't really take anything serious from the mouths of little pecker woods like you.

Quote :
What's more, there is a relatively strong tradition of anti-humanists.

Yes there is.


Quote :
Do some post-structuralist reading.

How do you know I haven't already. Cool


Quote :
To reiterate: you've both missed the point, and in doing so, have failed to add anything substantial at all to the discourse.

What point have I missed?



Quote :
Again: your ressentiment gets the better of you.

You come in here without addressing my points with a slur of insults talking about ressentiment.

Who the fuck are you? I think your a lazy intellectual coward.
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PostSubject: Re: Anti Humanism   Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:03 pm

It seems I have to dumb my every word down for you. By affirming a notion of human nature, and working from this notion toward a coherent philosophy, you are affirming humanist values, indeed humanism itself: for this is humanism. This is what I mean when I say you've missed the point. You're trying to destroy humanism, but all you're doing is changing the underlying notion of human nature to a notion already proposed by Hobbes, and critiquing on this basis certain types of humanism. This might be a useful analogy: you're a deontologist using deontic grounds to critique utilitarianism, all the while claiming to be exploding the practice of ethics itself! Understand?

Next: I bring up post-structuralism because within it exists a tradition of anti-humanism. If you're familiar with this tradition, you'd know that what you're talking about is not anti-humanism. To be clear: you are still very much so within the bounds of humanism; you are simply criticizing a certain brand of it. Refer to my above analogy. To this extent, I don't think you've added anything to the discourse, because Hobbes has already spelled out exactly what you are here proposing. If you don't think he went far enough, for fear of prosecution, then please, by all means, take it farther. You certainly haven't done so yet.

Quote :
Who the fuck are you? I think your a lazy intellectual coward.
If the self-proclaimed anti-intellectual thinks I'm a lazy intellectual, I think I can take that as a compliment of sorts. And what is it, dear Joker, that makes me a coward in your eyes?
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PostSubject: Re: Anti Humanism   Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:33 am

[quote="TheJoker"]

I shall like to make this a thread devoted purely to deconstructing humanism by putting it on the end of a fire pit left to roast upon flame.

First of all to get things started here I'd like to critique the so called focal point of humanism with it's assumption that human beings are naturally 'good' or cooperative in it's social state of existence.

Within the elaborate study of human history this can't be any further from reality with the territorial disposition of human beings that ends up with the brutality of war and the social inequalities of tyrannical oppression.

If anything humanity's malice towards itself in past, present, and what looks like the inevitable future should be proof enough of how man's nature is anything but 'good' or built purely on a basis of social cooperation since neither dominates human behavioral interaction whatsoever.

Here in this thread I argue that humanity's nature is naturally savage, brutish, malicious, violent, inequal, chaotic, and vicious the complete opposite of humanist assumptions.

Sweetpea
I agree with you humans are very much all of the above. I disagree with you in that it is not our only nature. So if you are to deconstruct humanism it only makes sense to deconstruct all of the above in that it is not our true nature, unless that is what you are in this moment.

It is here that I argue from the point of view of the anti humanist for I affirm reality over novel idealism, delusion, and fantasy that pervades philosophical humanism.

Sweetpea
I affirm reality as well. Idealism, delusion, and fantasy influence, and create reality. Do you agree that our thoughts create our reality?

It is important for me to be well grounded in reality, I have learned to grow roots. Everything is a part of reality, but through inner body awareness that is the most real reality that I know how to experience, outside of my thoughts and yet very much everything being interconnected with all.


Moreover there is nothing moral or ethical displayed in human behavior and existence that I feel needs warranting any attention beyond the clever manipulative often enough deceitful deceptions that both beliefs play in human social hierarchy maintaining the status quo.


This is my first defensive position of many more to come as I plan on adding my thoughts to this

Sweetpea
Sorry to interrupt you with my last post, I was at work, and thats what came out. Please continue.[u]
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PostSubject: Re: Anti Humanism   Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:09 pm

TheJoker wrote:

I shall like to make this a thread devoted purely to deconstructing humanism by putting it on the end of a fire pit left to roast upon flame.

First of all to get things started here I'd like to critique the so called focal point of humanism with it's assumption that human beings are naturally 'good' or cooperative in it's social state of existence.
Is this really an assumption of humanism? I don't think so. Humanism is a reaction to all the theism, shifting the focus from faith to reason and human developed ideas of justice. You can be a humanist and be incredibly skeptical about humans and what they do, especially in groups.

Anti-humanism, for example, is not arguing that humans are bad, simply that they have no essential nature. Humanism is a focus not a moral stance judging humans. It is a suggested epistemology or set of these. A shift in authority.

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PostSubject: Re: Anti Humanism   Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:52 pm

Kovacs wrote:
TheJoker wrote:

I shall like to make this a thread devoted purely to deconstructing humanism by putting it on the end of a fire pit left to roast upon flame.

First of all to get things started here I'd like to critique the so called focal point of humanism with it's assumption that human beings are naturally 'good' or cooperative in it's social state of existence.
Is this really an assumption of humanism? I don't think so. Humanism is a reaction to all the theism, shifting the focus from faith to reason and human developed ideas of justice. You can be a humanist and be incredibly skeptical about humans and what they do, especially in groups.

Anti-humanism, for example, is not arguing that humans are bad, simply that they have no essential nature. Humanism is a focus not a moral stance judging humans. It is a suggested epistemology or set of these. A shift in authority.


All humanists I have met, read, or observed all believe that there is a single stretch of human nature that is inherently "good" and "rational".

It is here that I cast doubt on all of that.

I do believe there is a inherent nature of human beings except that it is anything but inherently "good" and "rational".

I am only anti humanist in that I seek to redefine human nature seperate from the articles of myths that revolve around it now.

If anything I view human nature as inherently conflicting, violent, and irrational.

I dare anybody to challenge me on this.

Quote :
Humanism is a reaction to all the theism, shifting the focus from faith to reason and human developed ideas of justice.

Humanism has a variety of religious emblems, motifs, and metanarratives under the guise of rational secularism.
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