Free-Will

Subject: Re: Free-Will Sat May 15, 2021 5:58 pm

Satyr wrote:: What the typical Desperate Degenerate cannot handle - whether it is consciously or intuitively - is the loss of omniscience, and with it the loss of omnipotence.
The herd psyche can its own deficiencies - may even prefer it - but what it cannot accept is the absence of it as a possibility, a somewhere out there; someone, something, out there that is taking care of things, so that its pains and sufferings are given some kind of transcending meaning, so that it even the madness makes sense, has some kind of sense in it.
It's the loss of a parent. Mankind coming to terms with its orphan status.

The dependency on authority, present or obscure, is the conduit for their identity. Like one who surrounds themselves with books, only admiring the possibility for their power, but never actually utilizing them. Power for them is only possible through an ‘other’, not through themselves.

Typical of vermin of all types.

Subject: Re: Free-Will Sat May 15, 2021 6:00 pm

Being aware, in a Cartesian sense, of a first cause of selfness, does not occur for those who find themselves needing a surrogate self in order to be conscious of themselves. They don’t even have the impulse of self.

Subject: Re: Free-Will Sat May 15, 2021 9:48 pm

Dionysian madness is creation in destruction. Self-affirmation, self-creation, produces fear and anxiety, for the very reason that it is a form of facing death. Self as unbounded by God, or morality, or social convention/institutions, means, a self thrust into the void. Pleasure seeking, hedonism and decadence are coping strategies and nihilism is the absolvement of the terror of creation. Creation is the reflection of destruction and in creation unbounded, there lies a veritable threat of death, of mortality. Because a free act carries with it a possibility of the infinite, or a confrontation with the true nature of oneself and their weaknesses. Shelling describes the self as the equilibrium between the finite and infinite. Thus, there is a tenuous hold one has on their potential to be free, especially if they have never been free or understood it. That hold, if lost, means oneself plummeting into life and power with either a fatal or successful outcome.

Subject: Re: Free-Will Mon May 17, 2021 5:49 pm

I took a special interest in Free-Will some years ago when the American narrative began to disintegrate rapidly. I remember vividly the propaganda and institutional narrative very well. America was/is supposed to be the 'freest' nation on the planet, politically, and in the history of mankind. So I put this to the test on ILP and elsewhere, testing those who support or oppose that ideology. Are Americans free, and if so, how, or how are they not?

On ILP, Silhouette took up the cause of Determinism and Anti-Free-Will most fervently, representing what I believe to be the mainline perspective. His opinions are reflective of the wider Mass. And the contradictions began to appear one-by-one. America is supposed to be the 'freest' nation, yet, cannot voice or explain such freedom to any significant length or depth. When pressed on the matters, Deterministic ideology quickly reveals itself, along with its Abrahamic roots.

Free, in what way? From whom? To do what? And with regard to Human Rights? What is a Right?

Few or none could withstand philosophical introspection and Dialogue for long. Few could withstand Conversation. Because those that tried, quickly broke-down to their institutionalized propaganda talking-points. Freedom, to the Mass, simply means "Privilege". And people are only as free as they are Privileged. Because the average Westerner and America has degenerated and devolved so far, politically, culturally, and civically, a constructive criticism or productive argument cannot be had. Barely even a dialogue can be had, and especially not now that the Marxists have gained critical-mass of cultural and political power.

Anything that was previously true or common sense with regard to (American) Freedom is gone or destroyed. It simply doesn't exist, for example, say as it did in the 1990s, 1980s, or before then. Although there are some free people remaining, some free-thinkers (Philosophers), the Mass and majority, have happily traded-in whatever remained of their previous freedoms for expenditures of 'Privilege'. This is proved quite easily how the Marxists focus all their efforts on "Privilege", and how Western society or America are "inherently racist", and thus not Free.

Because I have gone through the arguments extensively elsewhere, I will focus here mainly on the Conclusions I derived, or if anybody wants to converse or progress such dialogue, they are welcome to here.

Subject: Re: Free-Will Tue May 18, 2021 3:41 pm

Through I repeat it the degenerate mind cannot grasp it.

Free-Will is not an either/or - either master of your destiny or slave to an external agency.
It is about participating in the determination of your destiny with your choices. Not to determine needs/desires but to choose which one to give in to, and when, where and in what sequence and to what degree.

There is no right/wrong other than in relation to an objective, and then it is about more or less.
Just as there is no meaning to the concept of value unless there is an objective, in relation to which it has meaning.
Just as there is no meaning independent from subject in relation to object/objective.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν

Subject: Re: Free-Will Thu May 20, 2021 1:58 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is, of course, unnecessary when you are born, live, and die with no responsibility at all, because you are never in control, and you never have a choice.
A modern progresses, matures, denying responsibility altogether, requiring none of that infantile crap about "primordial sin"....in fact accepting no responsibility - not even for your own deeds.
There is no need for a sacrificial lamb because man is the innocent lamb, and though the guilty one is unnamed it is implied that it is universal order, no less omnipotent and omnipresent, and perhaps omniscient, than the anthropomorphic one-god.

Thee is no need for a heaven or hell because hell is the past on flees from, and denies, as one would Satan, and heaven is a perpetual future that never comes.
All that's left is a perpetual present - American individualism in a temporal nutshell.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν

Subject: Re: Free-Will Fri May 21, 2021 11:59 am

An effect need not be conscious - sometimes the effect is contrary to what was consciously intended, and in fact all effects produces consequences not intended, or unforeseen by the conscious agent.
An effect is the consequence of an interaction, or simply coming into contact - conscious or unconscious, willful or not.

Ergo, Christianity was born from the contact of Hellenism with Judaism with no conscious agency being required. Consciousness may become aware, after the fact, and then only intervene intentionally.

Free-Will, therefore, is not only about consciousness with a clear intent.
The body carries its own intent, as do plants that have no mind - no nervous system - and yet are intentional in their interactivities.
A plant's intent is to survive and to replicate - primary and basic. It acts, willfully, through localized binary choices, e.g., right/left, towards/away...

The essence of a becoming - a being - is the sum total of its fluctuating aggregate energies.
The mind evolves in addition to it.
The body's source of memories - DNA - are adjusted by the minds pool of memories - experiential.
Higher organisms have more options because they have double the sources of guiding memories - often complementing sometimes contradicting, i.e., saying no to the body's yes.
We can also say that a parasite does not intend to kill the host it infests but it kills it with its intent to reproduce and survive - competing wills within the same body.
Cancer does not intent to kill a man but kills the man because it has liberated itself from the organisms intent - contradicting what the organisms consciously and unconsciously wills.
It is even possible to destroy another while intending to help them - contradicting his conscious and unconscious intent.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν

Subject: Re: Free-Will Sat May 22, 2021 7:20 pm

It is not in regards to the rule that a sovereign is defined but in regards the the exception to the rule.
It is due to chaos, and the unforeseen, that will exhibits its freedom, ands the extent of its power.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν

Subject: Re: Free-Will Sun May 23, 2021 6:49 am

Concerning Abrahamism and Abraham's demanded sacrifice of his son by 'God',

This represents a loss of Autonomy, that an (Universal) Authority has eternal control over you, your life, your family, your children. A complete and utter, humiliating loss of Free-Will. This represents the Abrahamic religion in general, along with the mindset and mentality of its (Slavish) followers. These followers are controlled by Priests, Rabbis, Imams as proxies to "God's Word" and thus God's Authority.

This is simple conversion into Slave-Dialectic.

Then they demonize Satan/The Devil as somebody who offers "Free-Will" as a lure, as a lie, while themselves are "pure and innocent", actually guilty of what they project. This is a logical inversion, which leaves the follower and slave unsure which symbol to follow, or that if somebody "turns from God" then it must be toward Satan, as binary-poles, polar opposition.

You are either a Perfect Slave (Christian, Jew, Muslim) or you are anything & everything else.

With this dichotomy, the mass of Humanity has been ruled and dominated for Millenniums. There is no breaking them from this,

Just as you cannot force a cow to be a lion, or a lion to be a cow.

Subject: Re: Free-Will Sun May 23, 2021 8:58 am

The message being that free-will is sacrificed to absolute authority as p[roof of its submission.
Free-will is used as a tool to make submission meaningful, whereas modern secularists have done away with this symbolism and make the non-free-will an inevitability - there is no need for submission because they are all born enslaved and freedom is defined out of existence, so that it becomes meaningless.
For secular-nihilists, enslavement is intrinsic to being; for the religious variance it is to be sacrificed in order to prove faith to absolute authority.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν

Subject: Re: Free-Will Sun May 23, 2021 1:34 pm

The variability of order/chaos, i.e., patterned/non-patterned energies, necessitates a constant, dynamic, adjustment to fluctuating circumstances.
Free-Will is necessary for this adjustment to be successful.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν

Subject: Re: Free-Will Mon May 24, 2021 3:37 am

There can be no Free-Will without Autonomy/Agency.

However, the herd-instinct is strong in humanity, by which most willing give-up, or gave-up long ago in history, their freedom in exchange for security, subjugation by the Alpha of the herd, represented as the Christian-God, God of Abraham, Ruler of Jews, Muslims, and Christians. The Ruler of "Humanity".

To be outside this Dominion, is to be outside "Humanity".

Subject: Re: Free-Will Mon May 24, 2021 5:44 am

Another analogy with The Matrix.

Many/Most of humanity is "not ready" to be woken-up, not ready nor willing to be Freed. Few are willing, because most indulge in the nature of their slavery. The masses are comfortable and deeply ingrained, especially in the Abrahamic religions. To take one of these out of it, is to remove comfort, and then admit to countless-generations of errors. That a family who has been Christian or Jewish or Muslim has been in fatal error, for how many decades and centuries? How many humans could face such a challenge? To confront what makes them "Human", and what it would mean to reject or remove oneself from that "Humanity"? That you could be free from those shackles, of slave-dialectic, of slave ethics and morality?

How many so-called "atheists", "secularists", "nihilists", hold onto their Postchristian ethics, morality, slave-dialectic while playing and pretending as children that they are not ...still utterly Christian, still utterly Jewish?

How many "Americans" are American and Free in name only?

How many are faking it, or worse, lying to themselves and others?

And how do they prove their "freedom" if they dare to do so, except as Money, as-if they could buy their way out of Slavery? Or that they could buy a rebellious nature, a most resolute DNA lineage, or a free-thinking mind?

ILP, any online "philosophy" forum, proves these assertions immediately and viscerally.

If there were 'free-thinkers', then they would find their way here already, or in other dark corners of the internet which are still untouched, untainted, uncorrupted.... where there is still some free thought to be had before the Politicians and Politics yet insert themselves and infiltrate?

The dominion of world politics, of Humanity, always lag far behind the Philosophers of history.

Subject: Re: Free-Will Tue May 25, 2021 9:07 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Personæ (personality) is inherited and determined by forces beyond man's control, but character is what he consistently wills, gradually becoming habit.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Character is mind imposing its experiences over the body's inherited automatic impulses.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν

Subject: Re: Free-Will Fri May 28, 2021 6:20 pm

Schmit, Carl wrote:

Precisely a philosophy of concrete life must not withdraw from the exception and the extreme case, but must be interested in it to the highest degree. The exception can be more important to it than the rule, not because of a romantic irony for the paradox, but because the seriousness of an insight goes deeper than the clear generalizations inferred from what ordinarily repeats itself. The exception is more interesting than the rule. The rule proves nothing; the exception proves everything: It confirms not only the rule but also its existence, which derives only from the exception. In the exception the power of real life breaks through the crust of a mechanism that has become torpid by repetition.
A Protestant theologian who demonstrated the vital intensity possible in theological reflection in the nineteenth century stated:

Quote :: The exception explains the general and itself. And if one wants to study the general correctly, one only needs to look around for a true exception. It reveals everything more clearly than does the general. Endless talk about the general becomes boring; there are exceptions. If they cannot be explained, then the general also cannot be explained. The difficulty is usually not noticed because the general is not thought about with passion but with a comfortable superficiality. The exception, on the other hand, thinks the general with intense passion.

As it pertains to the sovereign and the free.
It is the exception that justifies and validates the rule. The exception to order is chaos.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν

Subject: Re: Free-Will Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:00 pm

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν

Subject: Re: Free-Will Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:25 pm

Schopenhauer hitting the bullseye once again. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
— Echoes of the Past! (@EchoesofthePas1) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Gives a bit of urgency to the Delphic maxim, Know Thyself.
Most identify only with the lucid part of consciousness - the "consciousness" in the synthesis self-cosnciuosness - mistaking much of their own actions - judgements and choices - as external agencies, including them in the vague category "other".
Also where the concept of "god" is founded.

I believe a clarification would begin with a triadastic conception of identity, i.e., a neurological - dynamic - synthesis of two, often competing and contradictory, sources of memory: body/mind - the former, more static, based on four-code method, the latter, more dynamic, on a simpler and so more efficient, two-code, binary, method.
The abstract concept of a singularity encompassing both as the final complete simplification/generalization.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν

Subject: Re: Free-Will Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:08 pm

Karl Jaspers wrote:: It is the leap from the encompassing that we are as existence, consciousness, spirit, to the encompassing that we can be, or authentically are, as Existenz. And it is thus also the leap from the encompassing that we know as world to the encompassing that being in itself is. This leap is decisive for my freedom. For freedom exists only with and by transcendence.
No doubt there is something that seems akin to freedom, even at the level of immanence, provided I do not identify the encompassing that I am as existence and spirit with its knowability. But this is only the relative freedom to remain open to the encompassing of existence and spirit.

No doubt there is also the freedom of thought that rises to the absolute freedom of the ability to disregard everything—the freedom of negativity. But positive freedom has another origin than has thought. It arises only for the Existenz that is reached by a leap. And freedom is obliterated is the ability of thought to disregard is extended to freedom itself and to transcendence. I cannot disregard myself as possible Existenz, and therefore also disregard transcendence, without betraying myself and sinking into a void. For the freedom of Existenz exists only as identity with the origin on which thought is founded. This freedom is lost to me the moment I rescind the leap and slide back into immanence, for example into the deceptive idea of a universal, necessary and knowable totality of events (of the world, of existence, of spirit) in the face of which I surrender my freedom. Here, in this leap to transcendence, I grasp in thought the basic decisions about my own being, and about its reality.

--We are indeed truly human only to the extent that we always grasp what is nearest at hand, according to the standard of the ideals that have become lucid up to that moment. But thinking of the encompassing, in extending this realm, opens the soul to the perception of the origin. For the essence of man consists not in the ideal that can be fixed, but only in his unlimited task, by the accomplishment of which he penetrates to the origin from whence he came and to which he gives himself back.
Man’s essence is still less contained in the anthropological knowledge he can gain of himself as a living being in the world. Nor is it exhausted in the context of his existence, in his consciousness or his spirit. Man is all of these elements, and he vanishes or is stunted if one of these essentials is lost.

Subject: Re: Free-Will Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:27 am

It is in the notion of knowability that the irrelevance of human will is settled.
What is ordered is knowable, and this is what I dispute, for if all is never knowable but remains unpredictable and mystifying then human agency must be adaptable to immediate circumstances, as these arise, otherwise survival would be improbable.
The allusion of universal intent is concealed in the absence of free-will; that life is, has, and forever will arise as an inevitability; that the universe - complete and whole - has been created or thusly arranged to accommodate the emergence of life, which is defined in ways that make it indistinguishable from any other form, living and non-living are indistinguishable since both are a product of absolute order, and have no agency whatsoever.

Desperation, caused by the announcement of god's death, has produced this resistance to anything that places responsibility on the shoulders of those who pride themselves at being "skeptics" - to the degree of nihilistic rejection of all external authority, except this one. Here desperation overcomes skepticism, and nihilism submits to the oneness of an all-encomassing being. The need to belong is transferred from the herd to the abstract - ideological - conception of a uni-verse, i.e., a singular verse.
Here there is no skepticism, only faith in the existence of salvation, redeeming individual imperfections, and a lifetime of bad judgment calls and poor choices, or a inability to reign in impulses due to a feeble will.

Men reject their own senses when it exposes them to a reality they find threatening, and they refuse their own willfulness and reasoning when it has proven to be lacking or unable to liberate itself from physical drives and egotistical assessments of otherness.

Irony, that many of these degenerates also advocate the subjectivity of all, which is contradicted by their rejection of free-will.
What they reject is not objectivity - since they indirectly claim the universe is the absolute will - but man's ability to approach objective thinking, since they cannot.
Their immersion in subjective emoting - only daring to surrender to the necessity of inter-subjective compromises - expresses a loss of trust in their own judgments.
Instead of admitting that they are unable to think - choose - based on objective standards, they declare the world void of objectivity, and then declare free-will non-existent to any degree while simultaneously accusing and blaming another for their life's tragedies.

This is founded on their egotistical refusal to question their core beliefs. They would rather double-down than accept such a loss of self-respect - ego.
There is no error in judgment because all is inevitable, and could not have been any other way....this is how they deal with a lifetime wasted on a mistake.

Another example from current events:
Desperate degenerates cannot let go of their mistaken conviction that race and gender are social constructs.
This rejection of a fundamental part of their belief system leads them to the accusation of systemic racism to explain why, despite decades of equal rights, and common education, group parity has not materialized.
It's not their belief that race and gender are social construct, but there must be a secret force preventing parity from becoming fact - maybe a universal inevitability?
To explain why blacks cannot perform academically anywhere approaching parity with other races, when they outperform other races athletically, can be explained if they let go of their idealistic conviction that all men are "created equal" and race - as well as gender - are nothing more than social constructs.

This is why the US will deteriorate and finally fragment. It is built on a lie, perpetuated to its population for generations - since the Civil War - that has become part of Americanism's messianic mission.
A lie its people just can't let go of, because if they do then everything America is, and stands for, will be exposed as a big lie - an existential crisis will follow.
"Diversity is a strength" is the Canadian version.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν

Subject: Re: Free-Will Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:21 pm

It is an idealistic quote, but i don't think that Jaspers speaks of the "encompassing" as a divine will or consciousness, implying a cosmic intentionality. I think he places it within the Heideggerian context of Being, I.e. "Existenz"--his understanding of Dasein, and the concept of Being itself as existence-whole, not theistic oneness. The concept of transcendence, should be understood metaphysically, as a mode of apprehending the self in relation to the world. All ideas must serve this purpose, whether successfully or unsuccessfully. If they are placed in absolute contexts, as they often are, than it is up to the philosophical method to divorce them from that for the aim of understanding why. I consider 'transcendence' only as another mode of attending to consciousness and self, an obstacle to deal with to achieve something worthwhile to my identity. He actually makes a point about the deterministic nihilism of materialism and logical positivism, and so he advocates trancedental idealism as a counter-measure for the attainment of free-will. This is not how I would understand it, but it makes for a useful point about the needs of identity in order to valuate free-will. Subjectivity is nothing negative or positive. It merely means self-consciousness and it is nessesary to philosophy, and is only meant to be thought of as part of the conflict of identity with world. If certain minds, full of fear and anxiety, place self or world in absolute contexts, than all that means is that what is sound and truthful will manifest to correct it and the war continues.

Subject: Re: Free-Will Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:34 pm

When you begin a dialogue with a definition of concepts that begin from an imagined lofty place of abstractions, then you intentionally contain a dialogue within the realm of the abstract - the ideological.
No resolution can be attained because the words refer to vague ideas existing only in human brains, and nowhere else.

Any concept can be defined out of existence or outside the experienced - maintained in a mental state of obscurity, where it exists as an idea with no referents, as a symbols, i.e., word, number.
There is no way to verify or falsify....independently or collectively. there is only conviction, only theory.
Postmoderns have done this with concepts such as male/female, insisting that these terms cannot be verified nor falsified because they can be defined in ways that cannot be experienced, but only theorized, and converted to codes that can be shared or written down or spoken about, but never experienced. Only declared.

This is so for free-will.
We see it in practice.....we witness it in ourselves and in others, expressed as choice founded on judgement....yet we insist on imagining an external force, an invisible agency, pulling the strings...They just cannot let go of god, or an absolute authority, an absolute willful agency.
These people don't want to see, they want to remain blissfully blind.
You can't help an addict who does not want to live if he were to remain sober.
You cannot help anyone who does not want to be helped - a slave refusing to be set free from the comforts of his regimented, certain, incarceration.
Then leave them be.
They will refuse help and hate you if you insist that they need it.
So, let them be.
They will pay the price for their own willful choices, even if based on erroneous judgements.
They live their punishment. They are the manifestation of the price of their refusal.

Yet, they will never leave you alone, will they?
Their incarceration must be a universal truth, otherwise they cannot endure it. All must be made to pay, otherwise the costs are too painful.
They must pull you intro their prison because the external world is denied existence, so you must be imprisoned one way or another.
You must be made one of them.
So, they will never let you be. You are a thorn in their mind's eye....and the idea of you existing troubles and embarrasses them.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν

Subject: Re: Free-Will Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:07 am

Self-fulfilling prophesies are an example of how man's conscious mind - ego - is unaware or completely denies its conscious and unconscious contributions to what is determined.
Messianism is the collective version of self-fulfilling prophesies.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν

Subject: Re: Free-Will Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:45 pm

Without knowing it ones advocating for hard determinism make a mockery of nurture, in the nature versus nurture debate.
What they imply, whether they know it or not, is that the universe has a telos - end - an objective, like the Abrahamic one-god, which nobody and nothing can contradict.
They still believe...enjoying salvation as freedom from responsibility. They are purified, made innocent.
Nurture and nature become part of a universal plan.
In fact, they make nurturing impotent, and understand nature as another word for universe or one-god.
God's omnipotence/omniscience is simply translated into modernistic scientific jargon - secularized - and called "order".

This nihilistic underpinning of Abrahamism permeates western thought.
Thinking outside it is thinking outside an ideological box.
This box is characterized by two opposing and absolute poles - binary.
Either/Or
Absolute chaos or absolute order.
Complete, prefect, whole...immutable, indivisible.
An abstracted singularity conceals a foundational void, nil.
They worship the nil, through the singularity. Both, if made real - externalized from the mind (if it were even possible) - would destroy (negate) - the experienced world.
They worship non-existence.
A death wish dominates their minds. the world, as it is, is intolerable to them.
If they cannot have their singularity then all must be reduced to the nil.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν

Subject: Re: Free-Will Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:51 pm

We remain comfortably within Messianism.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν

Subject: Re: Free-Will Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:53 pm

The importance of the free-will debate is to ascribe blame.
When responsibility is refused then no self-improvement is possible.
Everything is the fault of someone or something else.
The individual does not have to change because he is not responsible for anything, not even his own judgements and choices are his own.

_________________
γνῶθι σεαυτόν
μηδέν άγαν

Subject: Re: Free-Will Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:28 pm

The Christian Ethos and its obsession with purity, through innocence (Ignorance) is very important here.

Baptism relies on being "born again", which is a sort of intentional forgetting, blocking-out and ignoring the Sins of the past.

Yet it is "through God/Jesus" that Sins are washed away. The purposeful forgetting of the harm done, and the accountability, is the dangerous factor.

Catholicism has Repentance, at least, which is the basis for Christian Apologetics. Although it is very rare, the Catholic Order used to focus on identifying the Cause of social disorder and chaos, through Repentance. And Catholics would not be forgiven until Penitence was paid for.

Unfortunately these practices have been relatively lost or slacked upon. I don't know any Catholics who talk about this publicly, although they should, in this Postmodern Era.

For the Catholics, you had to pay a toll for Sin.

This is not true in Protestantism/Baptism/Evangelicism, which dominated USA and Western Civilization. It also speaks to the failure of Modernity and the current paradigm.

Guest

_
@Æon.. it would be interesting to know if Catholics/Christians do sin less.. on average.

Behaviour.. being determined by a Faith, but not the actions we choose to take within that deterministic sphere, but shaped by it none-the-less.

Subject: Re: Free-Will Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:01 am

Datura wrote:: _
@Æon.. it would be interesting to know if Catholics/Christians do sin less.. on average.

Behaviour.. being determined by a Faith, but not the actions we choose to take within that deterministic sphere, but shaped by it none-the-less.

I doubt it.

Human Nature changes very very little, if at all, over time. Consider a dog's howling, which is genetically inherited from their Canine ancestry. The spirit never forgets; it retains its essence. And this essence is immortal. It is inherent in all life, in its most generalized form, which is pure survivalism and procreation.

If Human Nature can change, which is hypothetical and theoretical, then it would be very small 'advancements' through genetic mutation.

I've postulated before, it's about sex. It's about sexual attraction, and breeding. This is actually proven though. The most 'Superior' exemplars of humanity, geniuses, athletes, leaders, charisma, etc. are almost all the results of superior breeding choices: Sexual Choice. This is based on (sexual) Competition. This is another natural factor. The organisms which out-compete and win, the Victors, dominate over time.

So genetic dominance is likely the most influential quality in terms of specie, family, genetic traits, over time.

And this does appear in behavior and morality.

Moral systems can accentuate, or diminish/suppress, different behaviors, methods, and forms of competition.

Subject: Re: Free-Will Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:04 am

Concerning the above-point,

This is actually a primary disagreement I have, and have had, against Satyr over the years.

Is "Nature" changing or unchanging? Used in this fashion, biological Essence, it is the traits which are unchanging and relatively permanent over time. Defining the "Nature" of creatures and biology in this way, is contradictory and opposite of depicting Nature as "Changing" and in flux over time.

I'd like Satyr's response on this.

The Nature of Biology is a resistance against change over time, to preserve defining traits, expressed as Archetypes.

These also appear physically as Beauty.

Subject: Re: Free-Will Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:16 am

I'll reassert my position yet again:

The Nature of Biology, Life, Organisms does not change over time. Biology, Genes, Family/Ethnic archetypes Resist changes over time. This is how Speciation occurs, and divides organisms into different beings and creatures. An organism adapts, and then once its form finds equilibrium in a particular climate, it retains that form and that climate.

Organisms don't change their shapes willy-nilly whenever convenient, Metamorphosis, as-if tall is short, wide is thin, white is black, male is female, etc. To presume otherwise is against 'Nature'. To claim as much is Artificial, a lie, untruth, falsity.

The postulation extended forward, also demonstrates the essence of 'things', like a rock, a tree, a drop of water. The identity of these things, their "Nature", is also a resistance to change. A rock does not metamorphosize into a tree, a drop of water, a bird, or vice-versa, etc.

So Change/Flux/Time is something other than "Nature".

Perhaps it is linguistically applicable to call Time/Energy/Force supernatural. It is above, or below, or throughout, or simply beyond "Nature".

» Determinism and Free-will.
» Project #1 Free Will
» Critique Of Freedom Or Free Will.