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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:18 am

Will the mistress lead away or towards?

They place the blade into the sand, draw a line upon it....will she help them fall upon it, or will she save them, for posterity, for the coming battle?

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:23 am

Lyssa wrote:
There are many like li'l Erik out there, lost and wandering with abs. no self-direction, no north stars of stability.

The vast open life instead of hammering at the chest with a pressure to make something of themselves, that very scope and phobia of space sends them into cocooning themselves within the most mundane and worthless pursuits as an Ends in itself.

BDSM maybe initiating, but into what ultimately? Where exactly? For how long exactly?

What the f--- is one doing with immersion into these self-negating phantasms?

To be or not to be? And what?

Go figure.

There's a reason I chose " Wotan " as my moniker on AOE...

I'm not into BDSM for the same reasons some degenerate hedonist is; it's actually a somewhat mystical thing for me, for lack of better words...cathartic, spiritual.

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:15 pm

Erik, you should take my son's pic, the one someone else uploaded, and put a penis in his mouth...you know like a true warrior of your stature would.
Do something effective, like drawing horns on his ugly head, and showing me how he would look after you tore off his face, like you promised.

Then go to ILP and share with those who already know me, and why I am as I am.
Show us how intimidating you are, in real life.

An opportunity.

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:34 pm

Yeah, the BDSM community is replete with people who are into it as an end in itself, just looking to satiate their base, hedonistic desires; but there is a refined form of BDSM that isn't all about gross indulgence.

There is vulgar BDSM and refined/sophisticated BDSM. The latter is what interests me the most --- my style; the former is intriguing for psychological/anthropological reasons.

Like you insinuated, it can act as initiation into self-knowledge, self-communion.

One can achieve a transpersonal state of awareness, beyond pain and pleasure.





------------------------------------



"Chaaoooooos! Oh oh ooh
(There comes the punishment)
Your look has got me in chaos!! (World-wide) Oh oh oh (Daddy)
Kiss me when you're dancing!!!
There the pressure's coming!!! (Come On)
The two of us will continue travelling!!!
In chaos (Yeah) ooh ooh

This time, you won't get rid of me,
We went hands up,
Get aggressive for me, to stick you to the horn
I domintate you, you dominate me,
and in the end,
I'm sure I have dynamite for this mine
(the best of all time, come on)
Suffocating

Look how well you seduce me,
That little girl, when she turns out the lights
I like it like that, there, you're showing off
I already gave her the green light to abuse me
Abuse me..."

Apollonian order surrendering to Dionysian chaos/energy.

Surrender, as prior mentioned, is not a weakness per se:

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:37 pm

Don't worry, mother nature will be the cruelest mistress of all, to you.

Give it time.

Remember...Might is Right, and you are no match for Nature.
Until then...lie, in waiting.

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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:51 pm

If strong enough of letting go of control is all what it is about, and role-playing the role of a female, what stops him from surrendering to an alpha male?

How is getting abused by a female more insightful and initiatory than getting abused by a male?

So a male can take a woman doing that to him, because he secretly knows she is weak? Is SM a subliminal narcissism?

If there's nothing hedonistic/erotic about it, what does it matter what gender the dom. is.?

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:58 pm

Eric, you're a funny guy. Indeed, you are like Socrates: you spin phenomena in order to conform to your own world webbing at the time.
For you, I don't think it is to necessarily feel power over others, although there is a hint of guilt tripping trapped in there, but rather to normalize a bad sense of dissonance with which you conflict yourself. You're looking for acceptance, not just from yourself, but by and large through others, to make it de rigueur.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:04 pm

Erikos doesn't like his name being spelled with a 'c', be care-full kamerad; you never know, he might lose it at you then...

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"ἐδιζησάμην ἐμεωυτόν." [Heraclitus]

"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:15 pm

Lyssa wrote:
If strong enough of letting go of control is all what it is about, and role-playing the role of a female, what stops him from surrendering to an alpha male?

How is getting abused by a female more insightful and initiatory than getting abused by a male?

So a male can take a woman doing that to him, because he secretly knows she is weak? Is SM a subliminal narcissism?

If there's nothing hedonistic/erotic about it, what does it matter what gender the dom. is.?

Strength isn't just about being physically strong; most male-subs don't look for that quality in their domme.

Intellectual strength is what is really attractive. A well-educated, intelligent, intellectually astute female is very alluring and even intimidating; something erotic about it, something sublime...

It manifests in how She upholds herself, in her swagger.

Knowing that she could intellectually/psychologically over-power you is tantalizing.


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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:23 pm

I am not into this because of some low, base, hedonistic desires...

This also is a higher form of art, its style is what interests me, it is very awareness-raising, self-knowledge and self-communion and all...

To be strong is to be weak. To be weak is to be strong. To smell like shit is to smell like flowers. The reality is inverted, for the sake of your emotions.

A higher form of art:

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:55 pm

Also, why I don't surrender to an alpha-male:

I'm not gay...

BDSM is erotic Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:05 pm

I'm too prideful, even irrationally, and too prideful of others, again, irrationally, to adorn willing submission as some "mystical" mode of enlightenment.

Revisited: if you think submission, especially of this erotic type as it were, is anyway "Nietzchean," then I'd like to adduce what Nietzsche imputed to Zarathustraian instincts:

Quote :

But that I may reveal to you my heart, to you, my friends: if there were Gods, how could I stand it not to be a God! Therefore, there are no Gods.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:09 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Erikos doesn't like his name being spelled with a 'c', be care-full kamerad; you never know, he might lose it at you then...

Habit probably or something to do with autocorrect.

Besides, I'll just stick you in between: in this way, he'll bow down.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:32 pm

In Greece, before the crisis, banks used to offer good deals on loans...vacation loans they called them.
All Greeks had a right to a good lifestyle, a nice vacation.
Now imagine living a few kilometers from a beach, other travel hours to enjoy, and still wanting to take a loan to go to an island, or someplace else to enjoy the beach..or to go to some European destination to pretend you are a sophisticated, modern European.
To pretend you are more than what you really are.

In my poor, goat-man mind, if I do not have the money, I do not buy, I do not go on vacation.
But for them, these modern imbeciles, born and raised with a sense of entitlement, to be soft, demanding, envious, spoiled, that would require too much effort and time....best you live on credit.
Easy, cheap...postponed suffering, for immediate gratification.

Among the Modern Nihilists, ALL deserve the same luxuries.

The credit crash occurs and most of these douche-bags find themselves with no money in the bank and a huge personal loan debt.

What do they do?
They blame the banks for selling them loans, for enticing them with low-rate credit.
They demand to live the lifestyle they are accustomed to.
They were not imbeciles, it was the Bank's fault for victimizing them, for exploiting them in their weakness, their moment of need.

This reminds me of the Might is Right salon warrior of Ithaca NY.
He prostrates himself, demanding to be raped, thinking nobody will take him up on it...and when someone does he screams the "safe word" nobody agreed on, and blames the other for abusing him, for shaming him.
See, the professional victim, calling himself "warrior" is always blaming others for his own nature.
He, like the modern Greeks, are not to blame...they were taken advantage of, shamed, and now they remember they have dignity.
All those thirty years of tax evasion thieving, lying, pretending, nepotism and laughing at the world for working hard, and budgeting their expenses, was all part of a plant to take advantage of these morons.


Yes...if you go begging to be treated like a slut, and you, then are treated like one, then YOU are to blame, not the other who took you up on your offer.
The limits you thought applied were only in your fuckin head.
The universal love, you expected was in your empty head.

The organism is the limit upon nature.
The organism imposes, as much as it can, its limits upon nature, upon otherness.  
Only a degenerate, brain-dead, weakling, calling himself "mighty" expects the world to protect him from himself, and expects compassion and fair-play and not being taken advantage of, when he presents himself as a willing, innocent, victim.

Might is Right fails before Right is Might.
Respect is only possible between equals.
Equals have willed the boundaries the other cannot cross.
Noetic boundaries are imposed differently from physical boundaries.

The weak begging to be exploited should not be surprised when they are exploited.
Lowering yourself to a doormat and then expecting to be respected and cared for, is Christian naivete.  

Even your parents must be shown a line they cannot cross with you, because we all tell others exactly how they should treat us.
Sometimes directly, sometimes with subtlety.

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:11 pm

Satyr, when Lys exploited me, made me into her bitch-boy, I was still in denial about it; I repressed this aspect of myself, as I was ashamed of it.

Lys still owns me; I'm her property. She knows that I love her abuse, that I relish how she manipulates and instructs me; it hurts so good...

She is the only one who I allow to do this to me. The only reason I made a fuss the first time is because, as prior stated, I repressed this aspect of myself. And she knew this very well, which is why she was very patient and subtle with her devilish ploys; using hints, certain trigger words to arouse me.

What I said about her to Arcturus on ILP, all of it is true; she really is a Svengali, a femme-fatale.

A picture taken of us during one of our sessions:

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:36 pm

What a retard.

Life, the world, will be your mistress, boy.
The abuse is coming.

Keep us updated.

Might is right, no?

Ta, Ta,

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:44 pm

Satyr wrote:
What a retard.

Life, the world, will be your mistress, boy.
The abuse is coming.

Keep us updated.

Might is right, no?

Ta, Ta,

lol!

Leaving so soon? But.... I need you to stay, so you can be the 'cucker' in a cuckold session with Goddess Lys....

Shucks...

Anyways:
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:35 pm

Supra-Aryanist wrote:
I'm too prideful, even irrationally, and too prideful of others, again, irrationally, to adorn willing submission as some "mystical" mode of enlightenment.

Revisited: if you think submission, especially of this erotic type as it were, is anyway "Nietzchean," then I'd like to adduce what Nietzsche imputed to Zarathustraian instincts:

Quote :

But that I may reveal to you my heart, to you, my friends: if there were Gods, how could I stand it not to be a God! Therefore, there are no Gods.

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:27 am

Right, keyword, "endures"; that is, the will to power regardless of whatever obstactles are effectuated during self-imposed action and not rather the will to submission for the sake of submission, or, reinstated, not ascribing higher intrinsic value to the ideal itself, in effect turning it into an end all, as opposed to a means.
You're verging on moral nihilism here: submission or obedience to some "higher" or "other" superimposed command, whether it is inherited and accustomed conscience or tradition, a God, a "categorical imperative," an eroticism, a Nothingness.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:38 am

This is pathetic; is there some "psycho-dramatic" past you try to re-live or something.
What are your intentions, do get sexually aroused by making this topic?
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:44 am

Supra-Aryanist wrote:
Right, keyword, "endures"; that is, the will to power regardless of whatever obstactles are effectuated during self-imposed action and not rather the will to submission for the sake of submission, or, reinstated, not ascribing higher intrinsic value to the ideal itself, in effect turning it into an end all, as opposed to a means.
You're verging on moral nihilism here: submission or obedience to some "higher" or "other" superimposed command, whether it is inherited and accustomed conscience or tradition, a God, a "categorical imperative," an eroticism, a Nothingness.

I understand that N. did not have BDSM in mind, when he wrote the above quote; but it is validly applicable to the sub.; like I said before, BDSM is not always an end in itself, submission for the sake of submission. For some, it acts as an initiation into higher states of awareness. Think of Evola's The Meta-physics of Sex.

BDSM can be a means to knowing thyself.

It's not for everyone, only certain souls can derive higher value from it.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:56 am

OhFortunae wrote:
This is pathetic; is there some "psycho-dramatic" past you try to re-live or something.
What are your intentions, do get sexually aroused by making this topic?

Well, yeah...kind of difficult not to get aroused with all those lovely pictures of goddesses in the thread.

I've been trying to keep this thread as non-personal as possible, in the attempt to educate my audience about BDSM, in particular, female-domination ( Femdom ).

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:59 am

I think the thread exposés your needs, it is all about your pleasures, and the more it is denied to you, the more pleasure in your desire.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:10 am

OhFortunae wrote:
I think the thread exposés your needs, it is all about your pleasures, and the more it is denied to you, the more pleasure in your desire.

It's already been made manifest that I'm into BDSM, not really some secret, which has been " exposed " via this thread.

-------------------------

Erotic Humiliation


Quote :
Technically speaking, erotic humiliation and erotic degradation are not quite the same thing, though they are often spoken about interchangably or lumped together as “humilation and degradation”.

Humiliation is a mental state, and what humiliates one person may not humiliate another. For example, telling a man he has a small penis may be humiliating, if it injures his dignity or reduces his self respect. It’s not necessarily degrading though. Making him a public cuckold might be degrading because in the eyes of the world and himself it would make him something less than he was.

It’s really like splitting hairs, and the two forms of play tend to be used together by the same people, so for the purpose of this article, I won’t draw a distinction.

WHEN IS HUMILIATION AND DEGRADATION EROTIC?

Erotic humiliation is the consensual use of psychological humiliation in a sexual context. Whereby one person gains arousal or erotic excitement from the powerful emotions of being humiliated and demeaned, or of humiliating another; it is often, but not always, accompanied by sexual stimulation of one or both partners in the activity.

The humiliation need not be sexual in nature; as with many other sexual activities, it is the feelings derived from it that are sought, regardless of the nature of the actual activity. This is usually a feeling of submission for the person being humiliated, and dominance, for the person doing the humiliation.

It can be verbal or physical, or in private or public. Often it can become ritualized, and unlike some sexual variations it can also be easily carried out over a long distance (as online). Humiliation is an example of the power dynamic that exists in a Dominant/submissive or Master/slave relationship. For example, in an activity such as spanking, the sought effect is primarily the humiliation; the activity is just a means to that end.

It can also be a part of Emotional Sadomasochism, which doesn’t always have a Dominant/submissive element. Some sexual humiliation involves physical inflicting pain, but much of it is far more concerned with ridicule, mocking, degradation, and embarrassment.

Humiliation play can be taken to a point where it becomes emotionally or psychologically distressing to one or the other partner, especially if it is public humiliation. Erotic humiliation can become extreme enough to be considered a form of edgeplay.

It’s important to understand that erotic humiliation and degradation is based firmly on consent. If there is no consent then it is abusive. This doesn’t have to be consent given in that exact moment, it could be an agreement between partners of Consensual Non-Consent. But it HAS to be there.

THE PSYCHOLOGY OF HUMILIATION AND DEGRADATION

Humiliation in general stimulates the same brain regions that are associated with physical pain, the inference being that humans evolved to remember social rewards and punishments as strongly as they recall physical reward or pain in response to their environment. As with any form of pain experimentation in a sexual context, consent and (paradoxically) a high degree of awareness and communication are needed to ensure that the result is desirable, rather than abusive. For example, a submissive may enjoy being insulted in some ways but be genuinely crushed and devastated if humiliated or insulted in other ways.

Humiliation play is also connected to sexual fetishism, in that non-sexual activities may become sexualised by association with arousal, and also may be associated with exhibitionism in the sense of wanting others to witness (or being aroused by others witnessing) one’s sexual degradation.

For some people, activities such as name-calling are a way of achieving ego reduction or getting over sexual inhibitions. For example, between gay people, terms usually associated with homophobia may be used, such as faggot and dyke.

As with all sexual activities, some people have sexual fantasies about humiliation, and others actually undertake it as a lifestyle or in a scene. Sexual fantasies relating to mild humiliation are common. Some humiliation roleplay (pup-play and age play in particular) is combined with loyalty and care-giving to the extent that these fetishes can be seen as exercises in trust rather than primarily a humiliation fetish. The desire to be beneath the other partner during intercourse, the idea of “getting caught” (as in having sex in the garden or woods), and mild rape fantasies (in which the people imagine themselves to be forced in ways they would like, and which are different from any real form of rape) are mild emotional games that emphasise status, vulnerability, and control.

However, for most people such ideas remain fantasies; the people would have strong reservations about the fantasies’ being made public, or engaged in with a partner in real life, however erotic the idea may be. When someone reveals a fetish to a partner, this usually is a result of great trust. However, the desire to be humiliated may be a motivating cause for confession, in that the act of confessing can itself be humiliating.

Many people worry about being ridiculed for their fetishes, and such ridicule from their partners could be psychologically catastrophic. Therefore, many people use online humiliation (in which the humiliator and others are involved via the Internet, using chat, email, websites, etc.) as a compromise between exhibitionism and reality on the one hand, and safety and anonymity on the other.

WHAT CAN BE HUMILIATING OR DEGRADING?

To a large extent, what is humiliating or degrading is quite individual and varies a lot from person to person. Animal play is mentioned several times in this article as degrading, but the guys I know into pup play would totally disagree. The same goes for age play, exhibitionism, crossdressing, servitude and pretty much everything else on the list. One person’s “humiliating” is not necessarily another’s.

Some scenarios may be based on verbal abuse and others on physical aspects. Some possible examples are:

Verbal humiliation and degradation

• Animal play—describing the submissive as a pet, dog, girl, or bitch; making the submissive eat and drink from pet food and water bowls.
• Verbal belittlement, with such words as slave, boy, girl, missy, and pet.
• Insults and verbal abuse, such as fat, ugly, stupid, and worthless.
• Degrading names, such as slut, shit, bitch, and whore.
• Racial and ethnic slurs.
• Slighting of body parts and behaviors, such as disparaging or cruel references to breasts, facial appearance, genitalia (including size), buttocks, and slighting of such mannerisms as walking, responsiveness, and standard of self-care.
• Requirement to ask permission for everyday activities, such as going to the toilet, spending money, and eating.
• Forced repetition, such as the submissive’s being obliged to repeat commands that he or she has been given and to confirm them.
• Forced flattery, such as agreeing that every decision that the dominant makes is wise, correct, and justifiable, while additionally praising the dominant’s physical and personality traits.
• Mockery, derision, and ridicule.
• Scolding of the type commonly reserved for children.

Physical humiliation and degradation

• Ejaculating, spitting, and urinating on the submissive’s body, especially the face.
• Servitude
• Forced sexual degradation, including such acts as erotic massage, cunnilingus, analingus, and fellatio.
• Detailed accountability and control (micro-management) as to time spent and activities done, including lists of jobs to do, precise directions as to how the job is to be performed, and exactly how to act and behave.
• Real Humiliation is the act of making a person carry out specific tasks which involve other real people who are not aware that there is a task or dominant relation issuing the task in the background.
• Specific rituals and affectations to be adopted. This includes displays of subservience, such as lighting cigarettes, walking a pace behind the dominant, speaking only when spoken to, kneeling or prostrating oneself in front of the dominant when expecting orders, eating only after others or on the floor, and low-status place to sleep.
• Body worship, including such activities as kissing or licking the dominant’s feet, boots, buttocks, anus, vulva, etc. to express acknowledgment, subservience, shame, and even positive emotions (such as happiness and excitement).
• Deprivation of privacy, which may include the submissive’s never being able to leave the room in which the dominant is present without permission.
• The dominant watches while the submissive uses the toilet.
• The submissive’s being forbidden to leave the house or ‘dungeon’ in general for the duration of slavery or servitude, etc.
• Discipline (BDSM), including erotic spanking, slapping, whipping, restraint, and other BDSM activities (such as cock-and-ball torture (CBT)).
• Dresscode (BDSM): prescriptions and proscriptions of clothing, even in public.
– For women, a common example is being mandated to wear only bikinis or lingerie.
– For men, forced feminizing and cross-dressing.
• Both sexes may be expected to go completely naked, with decorative objects such as collars, diapers, bands, tiaras, and cuffs as the only exceptions.
• Erotic sexual denial, including the use of a chastity device.
• Wearing of external signs of “ownership”, such as collars.
• Public humiliation, in which the submissive’s friends or family, or strangers, are aware of or even witness the treatment.
• Erotic objectification, in which the submissive is used as human furniture, such as a footstool.
• Embarrassment.
• Forced anal penetration, with dildos, anal plugs, and similar objects.
• Cuckolding, a mostly heterosexual fetish in which the dominant woman has sex with a man outside of the relationship while the submissive man may or may not be present. If the man is not present, he might help her choose what clothes to wear when she meets the other man, or they might get together afterward so she can tell him about it, either while having sex or in addition to withholding sex. If the man is present during the cuckolding, he may or may not be allowed to pleasure himself while watching. The cuckolding may or may not be followed by sex between the couple. Another variant of the cuckolding fetish is that a heterosexual couple fantasizes that another man has already impregnated the woman.
• The submissive’s having to ask permission to orgasm during sex or masturbation.
• The submissive’s being forced to wear a gag or restraints on the body.
• Forced masturbation in a humiliating manner.


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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:19 am

Look, why not just imagine the woman of your attraction or infatuation fucking or bonding with some lowly man or someone you disdain and then fixing upon whatever thoughts and emotions accordingly arise?
You don't even have to degrade or humiliate yourself, and also don't run the risk of humiliating others.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:27 am

Yeah...like imagine your loved one fucking a Negro.
Masochism...self-humiliation from a distance.
Self-torture.

Sacher-Masoche would find a brute to fuck his wife in his presence...a degradation of her, that also punished him.
Today, the Jews give us porn to accomplish the same self-punishment.

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:38 am

I read one time a post from a man who wanted to father mongrel children with his wife, to be impregnated, in Africa and back to America - to tell his family they adopted the mongrel; because it turns him on.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:52 am

I am having trouble taking this thread seriously. I guess I have not yet or am incapable of attaining its desideratum of higher spiritual awareness.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:57 am

With a strapon in your ass, you might start to feel something, spiritual - who knows.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:58 am

It is possible to be raped by a vegetable.

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