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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:18 am

Will the mistress lead away or towards?

They place the blade into the sand, draw a line upon it....will she help them fall upon it, or will she save them, for posterity, for the coming battle?

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:23 am

Lyssa wrote:
There are many like li'l Erik out there, lost and wandering with abs. no self-direction, no north stars of stability.

The vast open life instead of hammering at the chest with a pressure to make something of themselves, that very scope and phobia of space sends them into cocooning themselves within the most mundane and worthless pursuits as an Ends in itself.

BDSM maybe initiating, but into what ultimately? Where exactly? For how long exactly?

What the f--- is one doing with immersion into these self-negating phantasms?

To be or not to be? And what?

Go figure.

There's a reason I chose " Wotan " as my moniker on AOE...

I'm not into BDSM for the same reasons some degenerate hedonist is; it's actually a somewhat mystical thing for me, for lack of better words...cathartic, spiritual.

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:15 pm

Erik, you should take my son's pic, the one someone else uploaded, and put a penis in his mouth...you know like a true warrior of your stature would.
Do something effective, like drawing horns on his ugly head, and showing me how he would look after you tore off his face, like you promised.

Then go to ILP and share with those who already know me, and why I am as I am.
Show us how intimidating you are, in real life.

An opportunity.

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:34 pm

Yeah, the BDSM community is replete with people who are into it as an end in itself, just looking to satiate their base, hedonistic desires; but there is a refined form of BDSM that isn't all about gross indulgence.

There is vulgar BDSM and refined/sophisticated BDSM. The latter is what interests me the most --- my style; the former is intriguing for psychological/anthropological reasons.

Like you insinuated, it can act as initiation into self-knowledge, self-communion.

One can achieve a transpersonal state of awareness, beyond pain and pleasure.





------------------------------------



"Chaaoooooos! Oh oh ooh
(There comes the punishment)
Your look has got me in chaos!! (World-wide) Oh oh oh (Daddy)
Kiss me when you're dancing!!!
There the pressure's coming!!! (Come On)
The two of us will continue travelling!!!
In chaos (Yeah) ooh ooh

This time, you won't get rid of me,
We went hands up,
Get aggressive for me, to stick you to the horn
I domintate you, you dominate me,
and in the end,
I'm sure I have dynamite for this mine
(the best of all time, come on)
Suffocating

Look how well you seduce me,
That little girl, when she turns out the lights
I like it like that, there, you're showing off
I already gave her the green light to abuse me
Abuse me..."

Apollonian order surrendering to Dionysian chaos/energy.

Surrender, as prior mentioned, is not a weakness per se:

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:37 pm

Don't worry, mother nature will be the cruelest mistress of all, to you.

Give it time.

Remember...Might is Right, and you are no match for Nature.
Until then...lie, in waiting.

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Lyssa
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:51 pm

If strong enough of letting go of control is all what it is about, and role-playing the role of a female, what stops him from surrendering to an alpha male?

How is getting abused by a female more insightful and initiatory than getting abused by a male?

So a male can take a woman doing that to him, because he secretly knows she is weak? Is SM a subliminal narcissism?

If there's nothing hedonistic/erotic about it, what does it matter what gender the dom. is.?

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:58 pm

Eric, you're a funny guy. Indeed, you are like Socrates: you spin phenomena in order to conform to your own world webbing at the time.
For you, I don't think it is to necessarily feel power over others, although there is a hint of guilt tripping trapped in there, but rather to normalize a bad sense of dissonance with which you conflict yourself. You're looking for acceptance, not just from yourself, but by and large through others, to make it de rigueur.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:04 pm

Erikos doesn't like his name being spelled with a 'c', be care-full kamerad; you never know, he might lose it at you then...

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:15 pm

Lyssa wrote:
If strong enough of letting go of control is all what it is about, and role-playing the role of a female, what stops him from surrendering to an alpha male?

How is getting abused by a female more insightful and initiatory than getting abused by a male?

So a male can take a woman doing that to him, because he secretly knows she is weak? Is SM a subliminal narcissism?

If there's nothing hedonistic/erotic about it, what does it matter what gender the dom. is.?

Strength isn't just about being physically strong; most male-subs don't look for that quality in their domme.

Intellectual strength is what is really attractive. A well-educated, intelligent, intellectually astute female is very alluring and even intimidating; something erotic about it, something sublime...

It manifests in how She upholds herself, in her swagger.

Knowing that she could intellectually/psychologically over-power you is tantalizing.


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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:23 pm

I am not into this because of some low, base, hedonistic desires...

This also is a higher form of art, its style is what interests me, it is very awareness-raising, self-knowledge and self-communion and all...

To be strong is to be weak. To be weak is to be strong. To smell like shit is to smell like flowers. The reality is inverted, for the sake of your emotions.

A higher form of art:

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:55 pm

Also, why I don't surrender to an alpha-male:

I'm not gay...

BDSM is erotic Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:05 pm

I'm too prideful, even irrationally, and too prideful of others, again, irrationally, to adorn willing submission as some "mystical" mode of enlightenment.

Revisited: if you think submission, especially of this erotic type as it were, is anyway "Nietzchean," then I'd like to adduce what Nietzsche imputed to Zarathustraian instincts:

Quote :

But that I may reveal to you my heart, to you, my friends: if there were Gods, how could I stand it not to be a God! Therefore, there are no Gods.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:09 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Erikos doesn't like his name being spelled with a 'c', be care-full kamerad; you never know, he might lose it at you then...

Habit probably or something to do with autocorrect.

Besides, I'll just stick you in between: in this way, he'll bow down.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:32 pm

In Greece, before the crisis, banks used to offer good deals on loans...vacation loans they called them.
All Greeks had a right to a good lifestyle, a nice vacation.
Now imagine living a few kilometers from a beach, other travel hours to enjoy, and still wanting to take a loan to go to an island, or someplace else to enjoy the beach..or to go to some European destination to pretend you are a sophisticated, modern European.
To pretend you are more than what you really are.

In my poor, goat-man mind, if I do not have the money, I do not buy, I do not go on vacation.
But for them, these modern imbeciles, born and raised with a sense of entitlement, to be soft, demanding, envious, spoiled, that would require too much effort and time....best you live on credit.
Easy, cheap...postponed suffering, for immediate gratification.

Among the Modern Nihilists, ALL deserve the same luxuries.

The credit crash occurs and most of these douche-bags find themselves with no money in the bank and a huge personal loan debt.

What do they do?
They blame the banks for selling them loans, for enticing them with low-rate credit.
They demand to live the lifestyle they are accustomed to.
They were not imbeciles, it was the Bank's fault for victimizing them, for exploiting them in their weakness, their moment of need.

This reminds me of the Might is Right salon warrior of Ithaca NY.
He prostrates himself, demanding to be raped, thinking nobody will take him up on it...and when someone does he screams the "safe word" nobody agreed on, and blames the other for abusing him, for shaming him.
See, the professional victim, calling himself "warrior" is always blaming others for his own nature.
He, like the modern Greeks, are not to blame...they were taken advantage of, shamed, and now they remember they have dignity.
All those thirty years of tax evasion thieving, lying, pretending, nepotism and laughing at the world for working hard, and budgeting their expenses, was all part of a plant to take advantage of these morons.


Yes...if you go begging to be treated like a slut, and you, then are treated like one, then YOU are to blame, not the other who took you up on your offer.
The limits you thought applied were only in your fuckin head.
The universal love, you expected was in your empty head.

The organism is the limit upon nature.
The organism imposes, as much as it can, its limits upon nature, upon otherness.  
Only a degenerate, brain-dead, weakling, calling himself "mighty" expects the world to protect him from himself, and expects compassion and fair-play and not being taken advantage of, when he presents himself as a willing, innocent, victim.

Might is Right fails before Right is Might.
Respect is only possible between equals.
Equals have willed the boundaries the other cannot cross.
Noetic boundaries are imposed differently from physical boundaries.

The weak begging to be exploited should not be surprised when they are exploited.
Lowering yourself to a doormat and then expecting to be respected and cared for, is Christian naivete.  

Even your parents must be shown a line they cannot cross with you, because we all tell others exactly how they should treat us.
Sometimes directly, sometimes with subtlety.

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:11 pm

Satyr, when Lys exploited me, made me into her bitch-boy, I was still in denial about it; I repressed this aspect of myself, as I was ashamed of it.

Lys still owns me; I'm her property. She knows that I love her abuse, that I relish how she manipulates and instructs me; it hurts so good...

She is the only one who I allow to do this to me. The only reason I made a fuss the first time is because, as prior stated, I repressed this aspect of myself. And she knew this very well, which is why she was very patient and subtle with her devilish ploys; using hints, certain trigger words to arouse me.

What I said about her to Arcturus on ILP, all of it is true; she really is a Svengali, a femme-fatale.

A picture taken of us during one of our sessions:

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:36 pm

What a retard.

Life, the world, will be your mistress, boy.
The abuse is coming.

Keep us updated.

Might is right, no?

Ta, Ta,

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:44 pm

Satyr wrote:
What a retard.

Life, the world, will be your mistress, boy.
The abuse is coming.

Keep us updated.

Might is right, no?

Ta, Ta,

lol!

Leaving so soon? But.... I need you to stay, so you can be the 'cucker' in a cuckold session with Goddess Lys....

Shucks...

Anyways:
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:35 pm

Supra-Aryanist wrote:
I'm too prideful, even irrationally, and too prideful of others, again, irrationally, to adorn willing submission as some "mystical" mode of enlightenment.

Revisited: if you think submission, especially of this erotic type as it were, is anyway "Nietzchean," then I'd like to adduce what Nietzsche imputed to Zarathustraian instincts:

Quote :

But that I may reveal to you my heart, to you, my friends: if there were Gods, how could I stand it not to be a God! Therefore, there are no Gods.

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:27 am

Right, keyword, "endures"; that is, the will to power regardless of whatever obstactles are effectuated during self-imposed action and not rather the will to submission for the sake of submission, or, reinstated, not ascribing higher intrinsic value to the ideal itself, in effect turning it into an end all, as opposed to a means.
You're verging on moral nihilism here: submission or obedience to some "higher" or "other" superimposed command, whether it is inherited and accustomed conscience or tradition, a God, a "categorical imperative," an eroticism, a Nothingness.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:38 am

This is pathetic; is there some "psycho-dramatic" past you try to re-live or something.
What are your intentions, do get sexually aroused by making this topic?
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:44 am

Supra-Aryanist wrote:
Right, keyword, "endures"; that is, the will to power regardless of whatever obstactles are effectuated during self-imposed action and not rather the will to submission for the sake of submission, or, reinstated, not ascribing higher intrinsic value to the ideal itself, in effect turning it into an end all, as opposed to a means.
You're verging on moral nihilism here: submission or obedience to some "higher" or "other" superimposed command, whether it is inherited and accustomed conscience or tradition, a God, a "categorical imperative," an eroticism, a Nothingness.

I understand that N. did not have BDSM in mind, when he wrote the above quote; but it is validly applicable to the sub.; like I said before, BDSM is not always an end in itself, submission for the sake of submission. For some, it acts as an initiation into higher states of awareness. Think of Evola's The Meta-physics of Sex.

BDSM can be a means to knowing thyself.

It's not for everyone, only certain souls can derive higher value from it.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:56 am

OhFortunae wrote:
This is pathetic; is there some "psycho-dramatic" past you try to re-live or something.
What are your intentions, do get sexually aroused by making this topic?

Well, yeah...kind of difficult not to get aroused with all those lovely pictures of goddesses in the thread.

I've been trying to keep this thread as non-personal as possible, in the attempt to educate my audience about BDSM, in particular, female-domination ( Femdom ).

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:59 am

I think the thread exposés your needs, it is all about your pleasures, and the more it is denied to you, the more pleasure in your desire.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:10 am

OhFortunae wrote:
I think the thread exposés your needs, it is all about your pleasures, and the more it is denied to you, the more pleasure in your desire.

It's already been made manifest that I'm into BDSM, not really some secret, which has been " exposed " via this thread.

-------------------------

Erotic Humiliation


Quote :
Technically speaking, erotic humiliation and erotic degradation are not quite the same thing, though they are often spoken about interchangably or lumped together as “humilation and degradation”.

Humiliation is a mental state, and what humiliates one person may not humiliate another. For example, telling a man he has a small penis may be humiliating, if it injures his dignity or reduces his self respect. It’s not necessarily degrading though. Making him a public cuckold might be degrading because in the eyes of the world and himself it would make him something less than he was.

It’s really like splitting hairs, and the two forms of play tend to be used together by the same people, so for the purpose of this article, I won’t draw a distinction.

WHEN IS HUMILIATION AND DEGRADATION EROTIC?

Erotic humiliation is the consensual use of psychological humiliation in a sexual context. Whereby one person gains arousal or erotic excitement from the powerful emotions of being humiliated and demeaned, or of humiliating another; it is often, but not always, accompanied by sexual stimulation of one or both partners in the activity.

The humiliation need not be sexual in nature; as with many other sexual activities, it is the feelings derived from it that are sought, regardless of the nature of the actual activity. This is usually a feeling of submission for the person being humiliated, and dominance, for the person doing the humiliation.

It can be verbal or physical, or in private or public. Often it can become ritualized, and unlike some sexual variations it can also be easily carried out over a long distance (as online). Humiliation is an example of the power dynamic that exists in a Dominant/submissive or Master/slave relationship. For example, in an activity such as spanking, the sought effect is primarily the humiliation; the activity is just a means to that end.

It can also be a part of Emotional Sadomasochism, which doesn’t always have a Dominant/submissive element. Some sexual humiliation involves physical inflicting pain, but much of it is far more concerned with ridicule, mocking, degradation, and embarrassment.

Humiliation play can be taken to a point where it becomes emotionally or psychologically distressing to one or the other partner, especially if it is public humiliation. Erotic humiliation can become extreme enough to be considered a form of edgeplay.

It’s important to understand that erotic humiliation and degradation is based firmly on consent. If there is no consent then it is abusive. This doesn’t have to be consent given in that exact moment, it could be an agreement between partners of Consensual Non-Consent. But it HAS to be there.

THE PSYCHOLOGY OF HUMILIATION AND DEGRADATION

Humiliation in general stimulates the same brain regions that are associated with physical pain, the inference being that humans evolved to remember social rewards and punishments as strongly as they recall physical reward or pain in response to their environment. As with any form of pain experimentation in a sexual context, consent and (paradoxically) a high degree of awareness and communication are needed to ensure that the result is desirable, rather than abusive. For example, a submissive may enjoy being insulted in some ways but be genuinely crushed and devastated if humiliated or insulted in other ways.

Humiliation play is also connected to sexual fetishism, in that non-sexual activities may become sexualised by association with arousal, and also may be associated with exhibitionism in the sense of wanting others to witness (or being aroused by others witnessing) one’s sexual degradation.

For some people, activities such as name-calling are a way of achieving ego reduction or getting over sexual inhibitions. For example, between gay people, terms usually associated with homophobia may be used, such as faggot and dyke.

As with all sexual activities, some people have sexual fantasies about humiliation, and others actually undertake it as a lifestyle or in a scene. Sexual fantasies relating to mild humiliation are common. Some humiliation roleplay (pup-play and age play in particular) is combined with loyalty and care-giving to the extent that these fetishes can be seen as exercises in trust rather than primarily a humiliation fetish. The desire to be beneath the other partner during intercourse, the idea of “getting caught” (as in having sex in the garden or woods), and mild rape fantasies (in which the people imagine themselves to be forced in ways they would like, and which are different from any real form of rape) are mild emotional games that emphasise status, vulnerability, and control.

However, for most people such ideas remain fantasies; the people would have strong reservations about the fantasies’ being made public, or engaged in with a partner in real life, however erotic the idea may be. When someone reveals a fetish to a partner, this usually is a result of great trust. However, the desire to be humiliated may be a motivating cause for confession, in that the act of confessing can itself be humiliating.

Many people worry about being ridiculed for their fetishes, and such ridicule from their partners could be psychologically catastrophic. Therefore, many people use online humiliation (in which the humiliator and others are involved via the Internet, using chat, email, websites, etc.) as a compromise between exhibitionism and reality on the one hand, and safety and anonymity on the other.

WHAT CAN BE HUMILIATING OR DEGRADING?

To a large extent, what is humiliating or degrading is quite individual and varies a lot from person to person. Animal play is mentioned several times in this article as degrading, but the guys I know into pup play would totally disagree. The same goes for age play, exhibitionism, crossdressing, servitude and pretty much everything else on the list. One person’s “humiliating” is not necessarily another’s.

Some scenarios may be based on verbal abuse and others on physical aspects. Some possible examples are:

Verbal humiliation and degradation

• Animal play—describing the submissive as a pet, dog, girl, or bitch; making the submissive eat and drink from pet food and water bowls.
• Verbal belittlement, with such words as slave, boy, girl, missy, and pet.
• Insults and verbal abuse, such as fat, ugly, stupid, and worthless.
• Degrading names, such as slut, shit, bitch, and whore.
• Racial and ethnic slurs.
• Slighting of body parts and behaviors, such as disparaging or cruel references to breasts, facial appearance, genitalia (including size), buttocks, and slighting of such mannerisms as walking, responsiveness, and standard of self-care.
• Requirement to ask permission for everyday activities, such as going to the toilet, spending money, and eating.
• Forced repetition, such as the submissive’s being obliged to repeat commands that he or she has been given and to confirm them.
• Forced flattery, such as agreeing that every decision that the dominant makes is wise, correct, and justifiable, while additionally praising the dominant’s physical and personality traits.
• Mockery, derision, and ridicule.
• Scolding of the type commonly reserved for children.

Physical humiliation and degradation

• Ejaculating, spitting, and urinating on the submissive’s body, especially the face.
• Servitude
• Forced sexual degradation, including such acts as erotic massage, cunnilingus, analingus, and fellatio.
• Detailed accountability and control (micro-management) as to time spent and activities done, including lists of jobs to do, precise directions as to how the job is to be performed, and exactly how to act and behave.
• Real Humiliation is the act of making a person carry out specific tasks which involve other real people who are not aware that there is a task or dominant relation issuing the task in the background.
• Specific rituals and affectations to be adopted. This includes displays of subservience, such as lighting cigarettes, walking a pace behind the dominant, speaking only when spoken to, kneeling or prostrating oneself in front of the dominant when expecting orders, eating only after others or on the floor, and low-status place to sleep.
• Body worship, including such activities as kissing or licking the dominant’s feet, boots, buttocks, anus, vulva, etc. to express acknowledgment, subservience, shame, and even positive emotions (such as happiness and excitement).
• Deprivation of privacy, which may include the submissive’s never being able to leave the room in which the dominant is present without permission.
• The dominant watches while the submissive uses the toilet.
• The submissive’s being forbidden to leave the house or ‘dungeon’ in general for the duration of slavery or servitude, etc.
• Discipline (BDSM), including erotic spanking, slapping, whipping, restraint, and other BDSM activities (such as cock-and-ball torture (CBT)).
• Dresscode (BDSM): prescriptions and proscriptions of clothing, even in public.
– For women, a common example is being mandated to wear only bikinis or lingerie.
– For men, forced feminizing and cross-dressing.
• Both sexes may be expected to go completely naked, with decorative objects such as collars, diapers, bands, tiaras, and cuffs as the only exceptions.
• Erotic sexual denial, including the use of a chastity device.
• Wearing of external signs of “ownership”, such as collars.
• Public humiliation, in which the submissive’s friends or family, or strangers, are aware of or even witness the treatment.
• Erotic objectification, in which the submissive is used as human furniture, such as a footstool.
• Embarrassment.
• Forced anal penetration, with dildos, anal plugs, and similar objects.
• Cuckolding, a mostly heterosexual fetish in which the dominant woman has sex with a man outside of the relationship while the submissive man may or may not be present. If the man is not present, he might help her choose what clothes to wear when she meets the other man, or they might get together afterward so she can tell him about it, either while having sex or in addition to withholding sex. If the man is present during the cuckolding, he may or may not be allowed to pleasure himself while watching. The cuckolding may or may not be followed by sex between the couple. Another variant of the cuckolding fetish is that a heterosexual couple fantasizes that another man has already impregnated the woman.
• The submissive’s having to ask permission to orgasm during sex or masturbation.
• The submissive’s being forced to wear a gag or restraints on the body.
• Forced masturbation in a humiliating manner.


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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:19 am

Look, why not just imagine the woman of your attraction or infatuation fucking or bonding with some lowly man or someone you disdain and then fixing upon whatever thoughts and emotions accordingly arise?
You don't even have to degrade or humiliate yourself, and also don't run the risk of humiliating others.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:27 am

Yeah...like imagine your loved one fucking a Negro.
Masochism...self-humiliation from a distance.
Self-torture.

Sacher-Masoche would find a brute to fuck his wife in his presence...a degradation of her, that also punished him.
Today, the Jews give us porn to accomplish the same self-punishment.

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:38 am

I read one time a post from a man who wanted to father mongrel children with his wife, to be impregnated, in Africa and back to America - to tell his family they adopted the mongrel; because it turns him on.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:52 am

I am having trouble taking this thread seriously. I guess I have not yet or am incapable of attaining its desideratum of higher spiritual awareness.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:57 am

With a strapon in your ass, you might start to feel something, spiritual - who knows.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:58 am

It is possible to be raped by a vegetable.

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:02 pm

There goes my coffee.
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:04 pm

A banana specifically?
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:11 pm

Lost boy seeking guidance....
No father figure...the absentee, the missing.

Mother takes over as the vehicle through which he strives to fulfill himself, to find meaning, purpose.
intercourse with mother is incestuous, so he seeks a replacement, a surrogate, some female that will embody not his real mother but his ideal mother.
A mother/lover, a dominatrix, through which he gives birth to his destiny.

The mother/slut duality, a womb that will birth his ideal self.

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:26 pm

According to Goux, such Freudian theories not withstanding;

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is about the Avoidance of proper initiation by the father and the necessary killing of the monster [solving the Sphinx's riddle] as the necessary condition for a non-incestuous marriage.

The dominatrix, the cold Sphinx is not necessarily motherly but what attempts to stop the incest with the mother.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:34 pm

The Sphinx is the monster, the hybrid mother/whore which resides in the mind of the youth. He must deny the mother element to consummate the union...he must accentuate the Sphinx monstrosity.

The father no longer stand in the way between him and his eros with mother/whore.
He can actually help by providing an example of someone who did, indeed, consummate the erotic act. He wants to learn form father, to accomplish the deed.
He wants to imitate him; follow the steps precisely to lie beside the mother/whore monstrosity.

The father is no longer an antagonist, to be killed and replaced, but what is spent, drained, and irreverent, if not for the example he provides
The father has been overcome.
He will only help in seducing the mother/whore monster, to help the boy lie next to it and complete the union.

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:38 pm

The Sphinx is an obstacle in his path to become the Father he wants to be.

He must break the hold of the Sphincter's grip on him, he must solve the Sphinx's riddle or remain riddled forever.
It appears as a monster of contradictions to him, because he has avoided initiation and assumed improper superiority  - he becomes the contradiction that is the wrath of Apollo to anyone who assumes non-disciplined rational superiority.

The Monster in his path is not his solution, but his salvation upon slaying it - the contradiction he is. But he cant slay it unless he's properly initiated.

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"All that exists is just and unjust and equally justified in both." [Aeschylus, Prometheus]

"The history of everyday is constituted by our habits. ... How have you lived today?" [N.]

*Become clean, my friends.*


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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:57 pm

I think I covered that.
The father is no longer in the picture...he has been overcome. His only utility is as a mentor, an example to imitate so as to bed the mother/whore monster....an idealization of the real mother who has failed him, and he wants to replace, noetically, with a hybrid of females he has come across.

So, it's the Mother's body, her physicality, and the Whore's mind, interchanging...as monsters often morph.
The Sphinx's ambiguity, its paradox.  

The father is already dead.
He has become a brother, a teacher, to be replaced.

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:59 pm

The father is an obstacle in himself, as the father genes, participate in him.
He does not literally kill the father, he symbolically overcomes him, and makes him irrelevant.
He can now take the father's place next to the mother/whore ideal, without feeling ashamed.

The Sphinx's riddle is the problem, the paradox, of consummating the act without admitting, or knowing, what is going on.  

The Dominatrix is trusted to not cross the line, because the mother would never hurt her son.
He recognizes his mother in the monster, but only unconsciously, so as to enjoy the whore aspect of the duality.
The father is only an example to be emulated, only as much as it takes for the boy to finish the act.

The pretense of masochism is safe, because it is a boy's game.
The mother will never hurt her boy.
The boy will surrender to the game, the illusion, avoiding the shame of submitting to a weaker creature.
He would never submit to a male equivalent.

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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Fri Jul 03, 2015 6:24 pm

Regarding the nothing and killing of woman...

Shakespeare wrote:

HAMLET: Lady, shall I lie in your lap?
OPHELIA: No, my lord.
HAMLET: I mean, my head upon your lap?
OPHELIA: Ay, my lord.
HAMLET: Do you think I meant country matters?
OPHELIA: I think nothing, my lord.
HAMLET: That's a fair thought to lie between
maids' legs.
OPHELIA: What is, my lord?
HAMLET: Nothing.

Nietzsche wrote:
I know no case where the tragic joke that constitutes the essence of love is expressed so strictly, translated with equal terror into a formula, as in Done José’s last cry, which concludes the work:

Yes, I have killed her,
I – my adored Carmen!”
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PostSubject: Re: Beyond Pleasure and Pain Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:19 pm


Mmmmmm



Marianne Apostolides wrote:
Bind my ankles with your white cotton rope so I cannot walk. Bind
my wrists so I cannot push you away. Place me on the bed and wrap your
rope tighter around my skin so it grips my flesh. Now I know that
struggle is useless, that I must lie here and submit to your mouth and
tongue and teeth, your hands and words and whims. I exist only as your
object. Exposed.

Of every 10 people who reads these words, one or more has
experimented with sadomasochism (S & M), which is most popular among
educated, middle- and upper-middle-class men and women, according to
psychologists and ethnographers who have studied the phenomenon. Charles
Moser, Ph.D., M.D., of the Institute for Advanced Study of Human
Sexuality in San Francisco, has researched S & M to learn the
motivation behind it--to understand why in the world people would ask to
be bound, whipped and flogged. The reasons are as surprising as they are
varied.

For James, the desire became apparent when he was a child playing
war games--he always hoped to be captured. "I was frightened that I was
sick," he says. But now, he adds, as a well-seasoned player on the scene,
"I thank the leather gods I found this community."

At first the scene found him. When he was at a party in college, a
professor chose him. She brought him home and tied him up, told him how
bad he was for having these desires, even as she fulfilled them. For the
first time he felt what he had only imagined, what he had read about in
every S & M book he could find.

James, a father and manager, has a Type A personality--in-control,
hard-working, intelligent, demanding. His intensity is evident on his
face, in his posture, in his voice. But when he plays, his eyes drift and
a peaceful energy flows through him as though he had injected heroin.
With each addition of pain or restraint, he stiffens slightly, then falls
into a deeper calm, a deeper peace, waiting to obey his mistress. "Some
people have to be tied up to be free," he says.

As James' experience illustrates, sadomasochism involves a highly
unbalanced power relationship established through role-playing, bondage,
and/or the infliction of pain. The essential component is not the pain or
bondage itself, but rather the knowledge that one person has complete
control over the other, deciding what that person will hear, do, taste,
touch, smell and feel. We hear about men pretending to be little girls,
women being bound in a leather corset, people screaming in pain with each
strike of a flogger or drip of hot wax. We hear about it because it is
happening in bedrooms and dungeons across the country.

For over a century, people who engaged in bondage, beatings and
humiliation for sexual pleasure were considered mentally ill. But in the
1980s, the American Psychiatric Association removed S & M as a
category in its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.
This decision--like the decision to remove homosexuality as a category in
1973--was a big step toward the societal acceptance of people whose
sexual desires aren't traditional, or vanilla, as it's called in S &
M circles.

What's new is that such desires are increasingly being considered
normal, even healthy, as experts begin to recognize their potential
psychological value. S & M, they are beginning to understand, offers
a release of sexual and emotional energy that some people cannot get from
traditional sex. "The satisfaction gained from S & M is something far
more than sex," explains Roy Baumeister, Ph.D., a social psychologist at
Case Western Reserve University. "It can be a total emotional
release."

Although people report that they have better-than-usual sex
immediately after a scene, the goal of S & M itself is not
intercourse: "A good scene doesn't end in orgasm, it ends in
catharsis."

S & M: No Longer A Pathology

"If children at [an] early age witness sexual intercourse between
adults... they inevitably regard the sexual act as a sort of
ill-treatment or act of subjugation: they view it, that is, in a sadistic
sense."

--Sigmund Freud, 1905

Freud was one of the first to discuss S & M on a psychological
level. During the 20 years he explored the topic, his theories crossed
each other to create a maze of contradictions. But he maintained one
constant: S & M was pathological.

People become masochistic, Freud said, as a way of regulating their
desire to sexually dominate others. The desire to submit, on the other
hand, he said, arises from guilt feelings over the desire to dominate. He
also argued that the desire for S & M can arise on its own when a man
wants to assume the passive female role, with bondage and beating
signifying being "castrated or copulated with, or giving birth."

The view that S & M is pathological has been dismissed by the
psychological community. Sexual sadism is a real problem, but it is a
different phenomenon from S & M. Luc Granger, Ph.D., head of the
department of psychology at the University of Montreal, created an
intensive treatment program for sexual aggressors in La Macaza Prison in
Quebec; he has also conducted research on the S & M community. "They
are very separate populations," he says. While S & M is the regulated
exchange of power among consensual participants, sexual sadism is the
derivation of pleasure from either inflicting pain or completely
controlling an unwilling person.

Lily Fine, a professional dominatrix who teaches S & M
workshops across North America, explains: "I may hurt you, but I will not
harm you: I will not hit you too hard, take you further than you want to
go or give you an infection."

Despite the research indicating that S & M does no real harm
and is not associated with pathology, Freud's successors in
psychoanalysis continue to use mental illness overtones when discussing S
& M. Sheldon Bach, Ph.D., clinical professor of psychology at New
York University and supervising analyst at the New York Freudian Society,
maintains that people are addicted to S & M. They feel compelled to
be "anally abused or crawl on their knees and lick a boot or a penis or
who knows what else. The problem," he continues, "is that they can't
love. They are searching for love, and S & M is the only way they can
try to find it because they are locked into sadomasochistic interactions
they had with a parent."

Linking Childhood Memories And Adult Sex

"I can explore aspects of myself that I don't get a chance to
explore otherwise. So even though I'm playing a role, I feel more
connected with myself."

--Leanne Custer, M.S.W., AIDS counselor

Meredith Reynolds, Ph.D., the Sexuality Research Fellow of the
Social Science Research Council, confirms that childhood experiences may
shape a person's sexual outlook.

"Sexuality doesn't just arise at puberty" she says. "Like other
pans of someone's personality, sexuality develops at birth and takes a
developmental course through a person's life span."

In her work on sexual exploration among children, Reynolds has
shown that while childhood experiences can indeed influence adult
sexuality, the effects usually "wash out" as a person gains more sexual
experience. But they can linger in some people, causing a connection
between childhood memories and adult sexual play. In that case, Reynolds
says, "the childhood experiences have affected something in the
personality, and that in turn affects adult experiences."

Reynolds' theory helps us develop a greater understanding of the
desire to be a whip-bearing mistress or a bootlicking slave. For example,
if a child has been taught to feel shame about her body and desires, she
may learn to disconnect herself from them. Even as she gets older and
gains more experience with sex, her personality may retain some part of
that need for separation. S & M play may act as a bridge: Lying naked
on a bed bound to the bedposts with leather restraints, she is forced to
be completely sexual. The restraint, the futility of struggle, the pain,
the master's words telling her she is such a lovely slave--these cues
enable her body to fully connect with her sexual self in a way that has
been difficult during traditional sex.

Marina is a prime example. She knew from the time she was 6 years
old that she was expected to succeed in school and sports. She learned to
focus on achievement as a way to dismiss emotions and desires. "I learned
very young that desires are dangerous," she says. She heard that message
in the behavior of her parents: a depressive mother who let her emotions
overtake her, and an obsessively health-conscious father who compulsively
controlled his diet. When Marina began to have sexual desires, her
instinct, cultivated by her upbringing, was to consider them too
frightening, too dangerous. "So I became anorexic," she says. "And when
you're anorexic, you don't feel desire; all you feel in your body is
panic."

Marina didn't feel the desire for S & M until she was an adult
and had outgrown her eating disorder. "One night I asked my partner to
put his hands around my neck and choke me. I was so surprised when those
words came out of my mouth," she says. If she gave her partner total
control over her body, she felt, she could allow herself to feel like a
completely sexual being, with none of the hesitation and disconnection
she sometimes felt during sex. "He wasn't into it, but now I'm with
someone who is," Marina says. "S & M makes our vanilla sex better,
too, because we trust each other more sexually, and we can communicate
what we want."

Escaping the Modern Western Ego

"Like alcohol abuse binge eating and meditation, sado masochism is
a way people can forget themselves."

--Roy Baumeister, Ph.D., professor of psychology, Case Western
Reserve University

It is human nature to try to maximize esteem and control: Those are
two general principles governing the study of the self. Masochism runs
contrary to both, and was therefore an intriguing psychological puzzle
for Baumeister, whose career has focused on the study of self and
identity.

Through an analysis of S & M-related letters to the sex
magazine Variations, Baumeister came to believe that "masochism is a set
of techniques for helping people temporarily lose their normal identity."
He reasoned that the modern Western ego is an incredibly elaborate
structure, with our culture placing more demands on the individual self
than any other culture in history. Such high demands increase the stress
associated with living up to expectations and existing as the person you
want to be. "That stress makes forgetting who you are an appealing
escape," Baumeister says. That is the essence of "escape" theory, one of
the main reasons people turn to S&M.

"Nothing matters except you, me and the sound of my voice," Lily
Fine tells the tied-up and exposed businessman who begged to be spanked
before breakfast. She says it slowly, making her slave wait for every
sound, forcing him to focus only on her, to float in anticipation of the
sensations she will create inside him. Anxieties about mortgages and
taxes, stresses about business partners and job deadlines are vanquished
each time the flogger hits the flesh. The businessman is reduced to a
physical creature existing only in the here and now, feeling the pain and
pleasure.

"I'm interested in manipulating what's in the mind," Lily says.
"The brain is the greatest erogenous zone."

In another S & M scene, Lily tells a woman to take off her
clothes, then dresses her only with a blindfold. She commands the woman
not to move. Lily then takes a tissue and begins moving it over the
woman's body in different patterns and at varying speeds and angles.
Sometimes she lets the edge of the tissue just barely brush the woman's
stomach and breasts; sometimes she bunches the tissue and creates swirls
on her back and all the way down. "The woman was quivering. She didn't
know what I was doing to her, but she was liking it," Lily remembers with
a smile.

Escape theory is further supported by an idea called "frame
analysis," developed by the late Irving Goffman, Ph.D. According to
Goffman, despite its popular conception as darkly wild and orgiastic, S
& M play has complex rules, rituals, roles and dynamics that create a
"frame" around the experience.

"Frames suspend reality, They create expectations, norms and values
that set this situation apart from other parts of life," confirms Thomas
Weinberg, Ph.D., a sociologist at Buffalo State College in New York and
the editor of S & M: Studies in Dominance & Submission
(Prometheus Books, 1995).

Once inside the frame, people are free to act and feel in ways they
couldn't at other times.

S & M: Part of the Sexual Continuum

S & M has inspired the creation of many psychological theories
in addition to the ones discussed here. Do we need so many? Perhaps not.
According to Stephanie Saunders, Ph.D., associate director of the Kinsey
Institute for Research in Sex, Gender and Reproduction at Indiana
University, "a lot of behaviors that are scrutinized because they are
seen to be marginal are really a part of the continuum of sexuality and
sexual behavior."

After all, the ingredients in good S & M play--communication,
respect and trust--are the same ingredients in good traditional sex. The
outcome is the same, too--a feeling of connection to the body and the
self.

Laura Antoniou, a writer whose work on S & M has been published
by Masquerade Books in New York City, puts it another way: "When I was a
child, I had nothing but S & M fantasies. I punished Barbie for being
dirty. I did Bondage Barbie, dominance with GI Joe. S & M is simply
what turns me on."

Whip Smart: Beyond the Boundaries of Safe Play

While S & M can be a psychologically healthy activity--its
motto is "safe, sane and consensual"--sometimes things do get out of
hand:

Abuse

It is rare, but some "Tops" get too involved in power and forget to
monitor their treatment of the "Bottom." "I call them 'Natural Born
Tops,'" says dominatrix Lily Fine, "and I don't have time for them."
Also, some bottoms want to be beaten because they have low self-esteem
and think they deserve it. They are forlorn, absent and unresponsive
during and after a scene, in this case, S & M ceases to be play and
becomes pathological.

Boundaries

A small percentage of people inappropriately bring S & M power
play into other facets of their life. "Most people in S & M circles
are dominant or submissive in very specific situations, while in their
everyday life they can play a whole range of roles," says psychology
Professor Luc Granger. But, he continues, if the only way a person can
relate to someone else is through a kind of sadomasochistic game, then
there is probably a deeper psychological problem.

The Use of S & M as Therapy

People often confuse the fact that they feel good after S & M
with the idea that S & M is therapy, says psychology Professor Roy
Baumeister. "But to prove that something is therapeutic, you have to
prove that it has lasting beneficial effects on mental health...and it's
hard to prove even that therapy is therapeutic." In mental health terms,
S & M doesn't make you better and it doesn't make you worse.

Excerpts from an S & M Glossary

Sadomasoonism (S & M): An activity involving the temporary
creation of highly unbalanced power dynamics between two or more people
for erotic or semi-erotic purposes.

Bondage and Discipline (B & D): A subset of S & M not
involving physical pain.

Top: The dominant person in a scene; synonyms: dominant, dom,
master/mistress.

Bottom: The submissive person in a scene; synonyms: submissive,
sub, slave.

Switch: A person who enjoys being a Top in some scenes and a Bottom
in others.

Sadist: A person who derives sexual pleasure from inflicting pain
on others.

Masochist: A person who derives sexual pleasure from being abused
by others. Sadist and masochist are sometimes used playfully in the S
& M community, but are generally avoided because of psychiatric
denotation.

Scene: An episode of S & M activity; the S & M
community.

Negotiating a Scene: The process of loosely outlining what the
players want to experience before they begin a scene.

Play: Participation in a scene.

Toy: Any implement used to enhance S & M play.

Safe Word: A prearranged word or phrase that may be used to end or
renegotiate a scene. This is a clear signal meaning "Stop, this is too
much for me."

Dungeon: A place designated for S & M play.

Dominatrix (pl. Dominatrices): A female Top, usually a
professional.

Lifestyle Dominant/Submissive: A person involved in a relationship
in which S & M is a defining dynamic.

Fetish: An object that is granted special powers, one of which is
the ability to sexually gratify. It is often wrongly confused with S
& M.

Vanilla Sex: Conventional heterosexual sex.

Marianne Apostolides is author of Inner Hunger: A Young Women's
Struggle through Anorexia and Bulimia (W.W. Norton, 1996).
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