pagan religion

reasonvemotion wrote:

Therefore, a person cannot be a Christian and a pagan at the same time.

Study history.

Begin with the Roman Empire at 0 AD.  What happened there?  Why did Rome and European pagans become Christian?  When did they convert and why?

Did it have something to do with a decaying Empire over time?  Did it have to do with the Jewish subversion and the spread of Messianism during the time of Christ?  What relationship did Jerusalem have with Rome, or with the other armies who have conquered Jerusalem multiple times?  Does not Judaism represent an ideology that must appease constant foreign occupation?  Does that not feminize a nation into an attitude?

Christianity literally represents 'Christ'.  What is the literal translation?  Answer: ("Lord")


Here are some leads to follow...  Christianity began to spread like wildfire among the Plebian classes and slaves.  Messianism was a Revolutionary ideology which begot civil war and strife.  Compare this today, right now, as the American Empire decays.  Is not the civil war and strife similar?  Do not people flock to religion in such times and emergencies when State Governments (the rule of Kings) fail them?

Eventually the Roman Bourgeois and Political elites, Senators and Emperors, had to adopt 'Christianity' in order to appease the plebian masses.

They had to "Take a knee", as Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Nadler, etc. all had to do recently.  There's a photo of this.  This is very symbolic and it is not ironic nor coincidental:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Because the Roman Elite eventually incorporated Christianity, they had to retain their social and political hierarchies of power.

Thus Catholicism and the Catholic Church was formed, as a preservation of Roman power in the advent of Christian Messianism.


Fast forward to the numerous Christian Crusades which spread Gospel at the point of the sword.  Muslims were slaughtered.  Jews were slaughtered.  And Northern Europeans were slaughtered.  Simply do a basic search of The Crusades.

Most European Pagans converted across the Centuries, defeated either by military force or by political persuasion, to join with the Catholic Order.


Research the Dark Ages, when Catholics controlled almost the entirety of European knowledge and information flow.  When it was illegal for European peasants to read and write without permission ("interpretation") from their local prefects and priests.


If you don't know what it means to be Pagan, then so be it.

Some European pagans were able to adapt, elude, resist, defend themselves, better than others.

Some escaped into the deep Northern forests and woods: the Satyrs for example.

Even today, to this today, current (illegitimate) President Joseph Biden claims to be a Catholic.

What does that mean, reasonvemotion??

Æon wrote:

Does that not feminize a nation into an attitude?

Is this the ultimate argument against the instinct to conquer? The pollution caused through conquest causing the very nihilism that "conquers conquest"? Conquest aside from the typical romantic masculine expression, largely serves to either kill off a portion of the excess male population or if victorious serves to provide women/resources for such excess men, the children of which grow up as half breeds who sometimes assimilate, or might want subtle revenge for their creation. (I.E. Jesus/Anglos)

Would it not be better for each nation to deal with its excess men themselves instead of shifting the responsibility to the others around them?

Impulso Oscuro wrote:

Is this the ultimate argument against the instinct to conquer? The pollution caused through conquest causing the very nihilism that "conquers conquest"? Conquest aside from the typical romantic masculine expression, largely serves to either kill off a portion of the excess male population or if victorious serves to provide women/resources for such excess men, the children of which grow up as half breeds who sometimes assimilate, or might want subtle revenge for their creation. (I.E. Jesus/Anglos)

Would it not be better for each nation to deal with its excess men themselves instead of shifting the responsibility to the others around them?

Jews were conquered and genocided so many times in history that they had to develop a very advanced survival strategy (parasitism) that appears as it does today. They indoctrinated their females with Kabbalism and spread their religion through the Maternal lines. This allowed them to retain loyalty to Jerusalem (Zionism) even after being subjugated by foreign armies, and their males destroyed. Jews specialized in education, mathematics, doctoring, business, and other essential highly-demanded professions, thus when invaded some of their enslaved males would be employed.

Through the centuries, Jews were absorbed into the Roman Empire, creating the mixed Judeo-Christian spawn and virulent sects of Christianity and Judaism, a grey area for them to hide identity. This also developed into the skewed identity today, regarding national loyalty and identity. Jews in America, for example, still identify as "Jewish first". Jews retain their own (Hebrew/Yiddish) language in foreign lands.


Perhaps you have a point as an "argument against conquest", but some Conquesting tribes did it better and more successfully than others.

Vikings, for example, would kidnap the most beautiful females, and take them far away from their homeland. They would be forced to forget their mother's tongue and education, disconnecting them from their homeland.


Your point might be more valid as an "argument against conquesting Israel", which is why for example, Iran and other anti-Semites want to nuke it out of existence.

Furthermore, Islam developed specific anti-Jewish political stances as a method to prevent the traditional methods of Judaism from surviving when the Arabs and Muslims conquered Jerusalem multiple times. Those surviving Jews were forced to "Convert or Die". Eventually Christian Crusaders became more lenient toward Jerusalem, due to infiltration of Jews in the Roman Empire and rise of their influence. To this day, Judeo-Christians have a stronger alliance which is why Israel and the Middle East are drawn politically as they are.

George W. Bush also, correctly, called his campaign into Iraq a "Crusade".

This was not coincidental as his Neo-Con buddies were admittedly Zionists.

1. pagan
A person who belongs to a belief that is not from any of the main religions of the world, for example the worship of nature.

2. pagan
The notion of paganism, as it is generally understood today, was created by the early Christian Church. 

AEon, I agree basically overall with your post, except and this an 'except' that is common for a vast majority of people.  
Even the illustrious Satyr.

You mistake Catholicism for "Biblical" Christianity. 

Catholicism is just a continuation of Pagan Rome.
 
When Constantine married paganism and Christianity, the door was opened for false doctrines to creep into the early Christian Church. The Church became divided into the "Catholic Church" who accepted the pagan doctrines, and the "Christian Church" who resisted Constantine’s indoctrination.

 If a man considers the origin of this great ecclesisastical dominion, he will easily perceive that the Papacy is none other than the ghost of the deceased Roman empire, sitting crowned upon the grave thereof.  Historian Thomas Hobbes,   Roman is not really gone - it is called the Roman Catholic Church.

According to J. A. Wylie's book The History of Protestantism, the Greeks reproachfully named the fledgling Roman Church as "the native home of inventions and falsifications of documents."
These forgeries, nevertheless, succeeded in establishing Catholic doctrines.

The Papacy claims that its system of worship has been handed down through tradition. 

They are absolutely correct. 

But these are not the teachings of Jesus, but rather the traditions of Babylon.

You ask..........Who is an authority on Paganism?

The Pope?

Yes.

reasonvemotion wrote:

The Pope?

Yes.

No...

The Europeans who actively resisted the rise and spread of Christendom that threatened their Native European pagan roots, heritage, families, beliefs, etc.

The Northern European Vikings, and the Rus, were some of the last Europeans converted by force or threat of force after the Northern Crusades.

Even Adolph Hitler and Nazism represented a general rejection of the Christening of Central Europe. The Swastika represents a broken Cross, Anti-Christian.

Jews and Christians, the Judeo-Christian alliance (Zionism), including all the mixed bloodlines throughout the centuries, represents a genetic underpinning of Abrahamic Slave Ideology, that absolutely rejects European paganism.


If you include genetic heritage, tribe, clan, as essential to Paganism (Ancestor Worship) then you must admit that the spread of Christianity and Christendom is and was antithetical to the Native European pagans.

I would assert here that Greco-Roman Polytheism is the oldest and most enduring form of European Paganism, although there are many more, including the Anglo British Isle druids and Germanic Celtic shamans. I'm not steeped in Viking or Norse paganism, but do they not worship Odin/Zeus/Thor, essentially the Greek pantheon? Why is that, despite the geographical isolation?

Christ is a symbol of Judeo-Christian intermarriage.

Roman father, a soldier, bastardized and absent, with the Virgin Mary, Jewess, who avoids shame as to the Patronage of her son.

Rejected by Romans, and rejected by Jews, the Christ is outcast from both kingdoms and preaches unity as a result of his genesis.


He is used symbolically to conquer both Rome and Jerusalem, however neither political establishment accepts this. This is why Christianity is essentially bastardized and fatherless, "God" is absent, invisible, faceless.

The Slaves rebel, over time, their "woke" ideology infecting first the poor and starving, then the middle class, then infiltrating the upper class until all rungs of society must kneel before Christ.



If you are European, then you must reject what is foreign.

You must preserve what it means to be European.


Otherwise you cannot be a pagan.

Otherwise it's a farce, a fantasy, a lie.

Abrahamism, Slave-ideology, is very much a historic poisoning of the native European peoples and tribes.

After conquered, mostly by force, sometimes by gospel and persuasion, you are then forced to drink Poison.


How much poison? Depending on the European lineage, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. Sometimes to the point of death. How many 'Europeans' today are truly rooted into their pagan Ancestry? Most? Or few? How many are Christians or Jews?

How many are dogs to the Catholic Church, pawns of the Roman Papacy, prostrating themselves before dead long-dead Emperors?



Christian, Catholicism, Abrahamism, is worship of the Dead and Buried.

Paganism is worship of Life.

That's the difference, in my eyes. Although you already pissed on my "Authority", my opinion. If you don't know what Paganism is then maybe you should ask yourself why not.

Paganism: the natural state of being?
Postby Maia » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:45 pm

For most of last year I closely involved in a working Pagan group, and had a lot of very interesting and strange experiences (and was even kicked off another so-called philosophy forum for trying to discuss them). To try and sum up what Paganism is, it's a recognition that everything is magical, and imbued with limitless potential. It is a reverence for life, and the life force, in all its forms. It is a kinship with nature and the cycles of time, of birth, growth, death and rebirth. It is a freedom of spirit, without dogma or rules.

The monotheistic cults, starting with Judaism, then Christianity, and then, most especially, Islam, have sought to remove magic from our lives, and to control our every though and action. They do this by suppressing all that is natural. It's no surprise that these in turn have bred atheism, nihilism, and solipsism. All of these are the logical progession from monotheism. Instead of a worldview that had countless different gods and goddesses, all essentially human and emotionally real, they reduced it to one, unknowable figure. Atheism simply subtracts one from that, leaving nothing.

Monotheism and atheism are two sides of the sme coin, so very different in attitude to Paganism in all its infinite diversity.


The universe is alive with magic. This is the basic worldview of Pagans. It is liberating and exhilerating.


I choose the word magic very deliberately. It is that thing that plays on the emotions, and is not ruled by logic at all. It is that thing that makes us feel, rather than merely think. It is that that gives us all that makes life worthwhile.



How does this stack up with the description of Paganism?

As I stated
1. pagan
A person who belongs to a belief that is not from any of the main religions of the world, for example the worship of nature.

2. pagan
The notion of paganism, as it is generally understood today, was created by the early Christian Church.

Simply because there may be a misunderstanding of which "Paganism" I was referring to in my post.

2. pagan
The notion of paganism, as it is generally understood today, was created by the early Christian Church.
Is what I was referring to.

My next question to you is

Christianity is worship of the Dead and Buried?

Where in the Scriptures does it say this?

Maia has a very childish and naive view of things.

Concerning magic and mysticism, much of that is unnecessary. You don't need to believe in goblins, sprites, faeries, and trolls to be a pagan.

I would define "magic" pragmatically, as a romantic idealism in children that is worthwhile, but must be outgrown, and eventually replaced with the Unknowns of science, which in many cases, are much more wonderous, ominous, frightening, or magnificent. The universe itself is too profound to require "magic". The real thing is better than fantasy.



There are political and historic elements as well.

Abrahamism arose with Urbanite and Ghetto, concentrated city-dwelling populations. After time, city-dwellers forget about and become divorced with "Nature". It becomes foreign. Eventually all they know are city streets, slums, sewers, business, money, mankind becomes a faceless mob, and slave-ideologies dominate. The idea of freedom, of forests, mountains, rivers, the ocean, all become meaningless to that mindset.

This progression has not stopped from its inception to now. How many city-dwellers today, descend from city-dwellers 500 years ago, or 1000, or 2000?


Thus Paganism will be foreign to most, by that fact alone. Many people are content with the Status Quo, will not question their (Abrahamic) God, etc.

reasonvemotion wrote:

My next question to you is

Christianity is worship of the Dead and Buried?

Where in the Scriptures does it say this?

Which Bible? Which interpretation? By which Priest and Authority?

It is closer to common sense by the Christian-Jewish-Moslem "God" to know the truth of this.


Why is there only "One" God? Why, in Islam, are images profane and punishable by death? Why cannot you draw the face of Prophet Muhammad?

Answer that, and you'll understand.

"Concerning magic and mysticism, much of that is unnecessary. You don't need to believe in goblins, sprites, faeries, and trolls to be a pagan."

but you are not denying it is part of being a Pagan?

reasonvemotion wrote:

2. pagan
The notion of paganism, as it is generally understood today, was created by the early Christian Church.

Simply because there may be a misunderstanding of which "Paganism" I was referring to in my post.

Something which comes before (Pagan), precedes and predates (Christianity), does not depend upon the latter to exist.

Paganism is simply the natural state.


I interpret Christianity and Christendom the more "Civilized" State of Mankind, and certainly still embodied and entombed by Rome.

An idealism of Utopia, yet, Urbanite with dense populations, masses of people shoulder to shoulder unable to breathe. A Slave-Dialectic is required to bound millions, and then billions of humans together.

AEon wrote:
Which Bible? Which interpretation? By which Priest and Authority?

To begin with any reference that says Christianity is the worship of the Dead and Buried

reasonvemotion wrote:

"Concerning magic and mysticism, much of that is unnecessary. You don't need to believe in goblins, sprites, faeries, and trolls to be a pagan."

but you are not denying it is part of being a Pagan?

I did not deny it.

reasonvemotion wrote:

AEon wrote:
Which Bible? Which interpretation? By which Priest and Authority?

To begin with any reference that says Christianity is the worship of the Dead and Buried

If you cannot demonstrate the face of God, then it is not alive.


Exodus 20:4

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth"

So, now I must ask,

To which Church do you belong??

Are you Episcopalian or your relatives?

No church.

AEon wrote:
Which Bible? Which interpretation? By which Priest and Authority?

Reason wrote:

To begin with any reference that says Christianity is the worship of the Dead and Buried


AEon wrote:
If you cannot demonstrate the face of God, then it is not alive.


Exodus 20:4

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth"

Are you serious? LOL

I've argued against Christians, Jews, and Moslem about the existence of God and how they and their authorities define God. They don't offer much, nor do I expect much from you. Most leave it up to their local authorities, and of those, pass it onto their greater Theological authorities.

It has never struck me, not once, that the God or divinity of the Christian, or any Abrahamic Church, is an entity of life or representative of life.

It is not a life-affirming force.



You demand that I defend their religion on their terms, and ask me if *I* am serious.



If you make it illegal, according to your religion, to display a visage of your Divinity, then that states the obvious to me.

You worship a mirage, an illusion. Faceless, without identity, and no evidence of life.

I'll leave a parting shot.


Honoring and Worshiping are two different things. You can honor the dead, without being slaves to them.


And when it comes to the Abrahamic strains of religion, you certainly need not chain yourself to the dead relatives of a foreign tribe. How much more slavish, debased, and ruined can you get? You don't even honor yourself. You honor the foreigners who own you, to this day, instead.

The term pagan is a Christian one.
The practice of nature worship precedes Christianity.
Only an imbeciles cannot see this.
Christianity absorbed pagan tropes and corrupted them, Judaized them.
Even Satanism is how Judeo-Christianity understood Indo-European spiritualism. Satanism is how an Abrahamic understands Hellenism, or the Orphic occult part of Hellenic theodicies.
There are many that consider Satanism a form of Paganism.  
The idea that popularity equals veracity is a modern one...or that conventional understanding is true understanding is how a mind raised in Americanism would think.

Catholicism - Holy Roman Empire - and Orthodoxy - Byzantium - did integrate heathenism into their Jewish religion, which is an appropriation and corruption of earlier Afro-Asiatic spiritual traditions.
Protestantism is closest to Judaism, attempting to cleanse Christianity of these Hellenic remnants.
Constantine's "conversion" was politically expedient because most of the mediocre masses had already adopted Judaism, in their own corrupted understanding of it, adapting it to their heathen traditions, i.e., Christianity.

When two antithetical world-views come in contact there is cross contamination and the synthesis must become mystical in order to unify what is incompatible.
One was masculine the other feminine, so the feminine was more appealing to slaves, the ill, to females and children, of course, the desperate, the hopeless...so Judaism spread among the under-classes.
This was repeated later with Marxism, and now with postmodernism.

The same anti-life, anti-world psychology seeking for an alternative, a way out of this reality, a method to cope with existence.

As I've said nihilism is politically effective because it appeals to the masses of mediocrity, the laymen looking for a superstition, a magical formula to erase the past and to deal with self-cosnciousness.
Its seductive appeal is in its mysticism - metaphysics for the mediocre; in its absolutism, reduced to binaries - philosophy for the mediocre masses; in its most often positive nihilism - its absolutism, finality, certainty.

Pagan = Latin:

Quote :

Pagan comes from a Latin word paganus, meaning villager, rustic, civilian, and itself comes from a pāgus which refers to a small unit of land in a rural district. It was a demeaning Latin term (like the word hick), that originally lacked a religious significance.

A derogatory term given to heathens or polytheists by Abrahamics (Jews, Christians/ Muslims), indicating those that held onto their ancient traditions of nature worship, resisting the urban trend of monotheism and the god of the Jews.
Abrahamism is urban occultism which became dominant by spreading, from mind to mind, in urban environments - furthest away from nature, e.g., ghettos, slums, catacombs. Mind virus helping minds cope with their genetic inheritance and with the emerging vulnerability of self-consciousness.
Rise of the slave, a.k.a. victim psychology, "herd psychology" in Nieatzchean terms.

Herd differing from pack in quality and quantity.
Here the inversion from quality towards quantity, into from quantity towards quality.
Pack = small quantities emphasizing qualities; herd = large quantities deemphasizing qualities.
Quantity = numbers/words - abstractions.
Quality = essence, pattern, behaviour, i.e., interactivity.

The inversion:
Energy patterns represented semiotically - words/numbers - becomes words/numbers attempting to become energy patterns, i.e. behaviour. Body to mind sequence inverts to mind to body, often negating body altogether to leave the mind "purified", saved from existence and its experience of existence: need/suffering.
Genes to Memes inverts in nihilism to Memes to Genes. Instead of ideas/ideals arising from biology, from natural order, represented semiotically, the process inverts to semiology, representing ideology/dogma (abstraction) attempting to become biology, and to usurp natural order with an ideological order, i.e., manmade order.
Hubris.


The roots of Kabbalism is in Gnosticism, and Gnosticism is a corruption of Orphic cosmogony.

Quote :

a prominent heretical movement of the 2nd-century Christian Church, partly of pre-Christian origin. Gnostic doctrine taught that the world was created and ruled by a lesser divinity, the demiurge, and that Christ was an emissary of the remote supreme divine being, esoteric knowledge (gnosis) of whom enabled the redemption of the human spirit.

Gnostic:
1-World is unreal. Dichotomy of mind/body - body, the physical, tangible, is unreal, superficial, mind is real, i.e., ideas, abstractions usurp appearances - subjectivity is all; objectivity is illusory.  
2-World is hated - evil. Nihilism.
3-Occultism - secret knowledge reserved for the chosen few. Salvation for those who prove to be worthy.

Here we must keep in mind that the term "nature" often referring to order, must include chaos....so though man worships natural order, nature is not absolutely ordered.

shieldmaiden demands that I define Abrahamism as a dealth-cult through the Bible and Scripture, on their terms.

Why shouldn't I do it on my terms instead?


Jesus Christ died, and had to be resurrected.

His divinity, to Christians, revolves around his death.


What is the point of dying, what is the significance, if your God can intervene?

Does that not undo the Sacrifice???


Rhetorical question, of course, shieldmaiden,

I think common sense speaks for itself on the matter.

No, wait, I'll throw in one more...

Afterlife, you die, and go to Heaven, or Hell.

You do not truly die, according to the mainline religion.


Is that a worship of life, when you seek a spiritual placement after death???

Whaaaat?!

Abrahamism, any mass religion really, offers slaves an 'out', a reward for a life of slavery. But, ironically, suicide is outlawed. Only a good, dutiful slave, earns the reward.

You must drink Christ's blood, repent and accept Him into your heart, and then you shall receive Eternal Life. But not before! (Vampirism???)


How is that pro "life", how is that an honoring of life, shieldmaiden?

Tell me.


Isn't it a sign of defeat, of annihilation, that a man or woman's willpower is so broken, that she gives up completely on this life, and seeks resurrection, to be reborn, to start over???

Is that honor of life???

Nihilism inverts the real into an ideal, as a negation of the experienced.
the noumenon - abstraction - becomes more real than the apparent - perceived, experienced - what is present.
*Snake becomes representations of evil; satanic...ergo life is evil. The goat becomes another representation of evil - a scapegoat. Prometheus is Satan.
*Daemon become evil demons, Satanic emissaries.
*Life becomes death and death eternal life. Death is salvation.
*Multiplicity becomes a singularity, illusory, and the idea of a singularity becomes the hidden truth.
*Difference/Divergence becomes uniform similarity; illusion concealing the "truth" of oneness.
Body is superficial, illusory, concealing the absolute unity of a universal mind. individuality is illusory, all is part of a singularity. Difference is illusory, all is one and the same.
*Body manifesting mind - genes to memes - is inverted to mind - via semiotics, logos - manifesting body - memes to genes.
Noumenon being a translation of presence as phenomena becomes creator of presence.
Mind is god. Ideas - via numbers words - is the god mind communicating to us its will - astrology.