Men desire power

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Poison IV wrote:: Men do desire more power, ultimately...

There is no contest to that.

To say this is not the case is to ignore reality altogether, which speaks for itself...

This was my starting point. I want to understand what is behind that desire.

A powerless person, a homeless man relying on charity for example, can he be happy?

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Poison IV wrote:: Men do desire more power, ultimately...

There is no contest to that.

To say this is not the case is to ignore reality altogether, which speaks for itself...

Perhaps the sort of power they seek simply requires that they be more blunt about it and thus brings more attention to it then that of the power seeking of women?

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phoneutria wrote:

Abstract wrote:: I would say power is not all about control because some times power comes in being able to evolve to your habitat and thus survive in it... thus in otherwords the power to submit.

But isn't in the case that because you need to change to suit the environment, the environment has power over you?
Isn't submittal a yeld of power?

How is it that the environment would have power over you if you are changing in a matter such as to further control it...(by my logic one is already power because they have the amazing capacity to evolve...) that is just strategy, the step in between gaining power... even in the case of say becoming a dictator you must cow toe to the political influence of your order in order to rise to power even be those the politico's of the rebel forces.

Quote :: The idea that men desire power seems to imply that women do not... I would disagree with that... I would even go so far as to disagree with any assertion that on average men or more desiring of power then women... even if women do not seek political power which many have in the past done by means of manipulation of the man, many women regardless in fact most seek control of other women by means of popularity and such...

I agree there is an attraction to giving up... perhaps it is the freedom from need for concern of particular things. But it can come of the greatest power that one arranges around them a social environment in which they can relax.

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phoneutria wrote:: This was my starting point. I want to understand what is behind that desire.

A powerless person, a homeless man relying on charity for example, can he be happy?

I wouldn't rule it out. People seem to feel right doing things other people would not. I don't see many people who can easily be summed up as 'happy' whatever their power. Powerful people seem to feel harassed by, well, someone scuffing their shoes and having to wait more than three seconds to check in to a hotel. Let alone all the has to be denied anxiety around power struggles. The people who seem to have the most control over their environments - to follow your definition - seem like a defensive, spiteful, easily irritated lot. I am sure there are some exceptions, but I am going on my experiences with them.

But perhaps I am focusing on people who control fairly large environments. There may be people who control smaller chunks of space and might seem more modest on a scale of power compared to the others, but within that space they are calmer, happier and not in so many power and face saving and status struggles.

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Satyr wrote:: Is it me or are you being overly defensive?

Men are animals...we are here to define what this means, or in what way man differs from other animals.

You don't like my humor. I am devastated.

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Kovacs wrote:: If I thought about your post while I was having sex it would undermine the sex act, at least as long as I was thinking this thought.

My heartbeat is a repetitive activity.

My post seems to have no point, but it is actually so deep I am only channeling it.

I laughed a little.

Guest

Satyr wrote:: Success?
This can either be a socially, memetically, defined construct or it can be a genetically defined one or it can be a personal one.

The generosity of power is evidence of its overabundance in relation to the one it offers its excesses with such freedom.
You are nice to a dog because it needs you more than you need it...and because it posits no threat, whatsoever, to your basic interests.

Giving is also a sign of dominance...one makes the other resent that help he needs, as this receiving is an admission of inferiority.

You have q Princess Diana becoming some icon of compassion and generosity by giving to people of what she never earned herself and she had plenty of.
She was wonderful and admirable only because she could have ignored the rabble.
Yet she did not...and this is because she, and the royalty she represented, gained something from her activities.

So yes, to succeed in any way is to become relatively indifferent to what you succeed within.
Then you have the choice.

I understand what you say as it is related to power, and compassion as a tool for power.

However, I am making a distinction between success and power.
Power is a lot more obvious than success, it is something that an observer is able to perceive.
Success is to reach a goal, it is personal.

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Women desire power just as equally. The competition between women amongst themselves is astounding.

What we need to discuss is women's contribution and involvement in the process of men's competition amongst themselves.

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TheJoker wrote:: Women desire power just as equally. The competition between women amongst themselves is astounding.

It's not the same- that's a search for social acceptance.

Quote :: What we need to discuss is women's contribution and involvement in the process of men's competition amongst themselves.

Already did....no one seemed to bother with it. They prefer bantering around with useless mumbo jumbo, trying to hide any possible sexual influence :pp

I expected you to eventually come in with the attitude of blaming women for everything, etc so you see I knew I had someone on my side, even if for a far different reason.

While you want to equal out the male/female power struggle, I'm looking to define them on very separate sides. It follows the course of an overall male composition to be dominant. But, as Satyr would say, this is not strictly related to anyone who has a penis, as there is a masculine social role that is much stronger than any individual biological one, rendering the average every day male to little more than a bitch to the system that rules them; giving women an illusory type dominance that might lead one to believe that they too desire power in the same way, and this is not the case...

This is what explains your behavior, The Dragon's behavior, Brian's behavior, my friend Blake's behavior etc etc...

:]]

You have a strong desire for power, but remain unable to reach it, knowing that you will always be a slave, and not only this, but forced into a female role because of it...so you hypermasculinize, and basically go insane with jealousy, resentiment, hatred...yes, all of those lovely manly emotions >___>

You're forced to present your manhood through connections & affluence, and women won't take a second glance at you..
The lines are blurred. When 90% of the women you meet make twice or more what you do, there is no sexual distinction left... you are neither man nor woman.....you are hive.

On the one hand, you want the attention of the female sex, but you refuse to work for it....
And women are to blame because they emasculate you, and it's incriminating....
Women are taking on the power role within the allowed system, and you are left in the dirt..

Consequences of false security, sure, but yours are also of being a left-over & a push-over....blame without initiative.

Guest

Poison IV wrote:

TheJoker wrote:: Women desire power just as equally. The competition between women amongst themselves is astounding.

It's not the same- that's a search for social acceptance.

Quote :: What we need to discuss is women's contribution and involvement in the process of men's competition amongst themselves.

Already did....no one seemed to bother with it. They prefer bantering around with useless mumbo jumbo, trying to hide any possible sexual influence :pp

I expected you to eventually come in with the attitude of blaming women for everything, etc so you see I knew I had someone on my side, even if for a far different reason.

While you want to equal out the male/female power struggle, I'm looking to define them on very separate sides. It follows the course of an overall male composition to be dominant. But, as Satyr would say, this is not strictly related to anyone who has a penis, as there is a masculine social role that is much stronger than any individual biological one, rendering the average every day male to little more than a bitch to the system that rules them; giving women an illusory type dominance that might lead one to believe that they too desire power in the same way, and this is not the case...

This is what explains your behavior, The Dragon's behavior, Brian's behavior, my friend Blake's behavior etc etc...

:]]

You have a strong desire for power, but remain unable to reach it, knowing that you will always be a slave, and not only this, but forced into a female role because of it...

So you hypermasculinize, and basically go insane with jealousy, resentiment, hatred...yes, all of those lovely manly emotions >___>

You're forced to present your manhood through connections & affluence, and women won't take a second glance at you...
The lines are blurred. When 90% of the women you meet make twice or more what you do, there is no sexual distinction left... you are neither man nor woman.....you are hive.

On the one hand, you want the attention of the female sex, but you refuse to work for it....
And women are to blame because they emasculate you, and it's incriminating....
Women are taking on the power role within the allowed system, and you are left in the dirt..

Consequences of false security, sure, but yours are also of being a left-over & a push-over....

You and Satyr need to just fuck each other in getting it all done over with.

Seriously.......

I'm glad you found somebody to latch onto in dependency since you have no means to think for yourself. He's become your new daddy figure. Congratulations!

Quote :: It's not the same- that's a search for social acceptance.

It's more similar than you may care to admit.

Quote :: Already did....no one seemed to bother with it. They prefer bantering around with useless mumbo jumbo, trying to hide any possible sexual influence :pp

I expected you to eventually come in with the attitude of blaming women for everything, etc so you see I knew I had someone on my side, even if for a far different reason.

While you want to equal out the male/female power struggle, I'm looking to define them on very separate sides. It follows the course of an overall male composition to be dominant. But, as Satyr would say, this is not strictly related to anyone who has a penis, as there is a masculine social role that is much stronger than any individual biological one, rendering the average every day male to little more than a bitch to the system that rules them; giving women an illusory type dominance that might lead one to believe that they too desire power in the same way, and this is not the case...

This is what explains your behavior, The Dragon's behavior, Brian's behavior, my friend Blake's behavior etc etc...

:]]

You have a strong desire for power, but remain unable to reach it, knowing that you will always be a slave, and not only this, but forced into a female role because of it...

So you hypermasculinize, and basically go insane with jealousy, resentiment, hatred...yes, all of those lovely manly emotions >___>

You're forced to present your manhood through connections & affluence, and women won't take a second glance at you...
The lines are blurred. When 90% of the women you meet make twice or more what you do, there is no sexual distinction left... you are neither man nor woman.....you are hive.

On the one hand, you want the attention of the female sex, but you refuse to work for it....
And women are to blame because they emasculate you, and it's incriminating....
Women are taking on the power role within the allowed system, and you are left in the dirt..

Consequences of false security, sure, but yours are also of being a left-over & a push-over....

Bitch stop embarrassing yourself in your sad pathetic attempts at philosophizing.

Even rehashing tid bits of Satyr-ism here and there makes you look like you don't know what your talking about.

Also: Suck my cock....

Guest

Mirror, mirror on the wall...

**crackkkk**

Guest

Poison IV wrote:: Mirror, mirror on the wall...

**crackkkk**

Is that it?

Is that all the creativity you got?

Fucking pathetic...

Go back to stripping on the pole my overly privileged beautiful delicious cunt.

That's the only future you have.

I'll promise to feed you some dollar bill singles while they're still worth somthing around the global markets in a bit.

Guest

To interject one more time I would like to discuss the female's role in guiding male competition amongst themselves.

We all know sexual competition is the greatest primal overdrive of men's competition amongst themselves.

Let's talk about women's role in all of that.

Guest

The more you open your mouth, the more you prove my point...

Guest

Poison IV wrote:: The more you open your mouth, the more you prove my point...

Go suck some donkey dick.

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Poison IV wrote:: A man's power & dominance shows his sexual fitness etc...

It's really simple and comes down to reproduction :p

No woman wants a wimp that can't defend her, so yeah...

And men are always working on the great divide between what makes them men and the others .....the women

They need that separation, and identity; to show that they are capable, movers...

Yes, IV, but that changes according to what is most valued in any given situation.

Thom Hartman pointed out a study in which women from America, where Capitalism dominates, and women in other western industrialized nations where they have strong safety nets were shown pictures of different kinds of men: some of them kind of effeminate and intellectual and others that were brawny and thick in the neck. What they found out was that in America, the women tended to prefer men that fit the more primal criteria of a man while the women in countries with strong safety nets tended to prefer the less masculine, more intellectual man.

You might have been right back when we were primates or not far removed from it. But things are changing.

And how many women slober all over themselves over femme rockstar types?

Ultimately, it all comes down to what is considered power.

And right now, that power centers around money, not some outdated notion of what a man is.

Subject: Re: Men desire power Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:45 pm

phoneutria wrote:: I understand what you say as it is related to power, and compassion as a tool for power.

However, I am making a distinction between success and power.
Power is a lot more obvious than success, it is something that an observer is able to perceive.
Success is to reach a goal, it is personal.

I consider this an aspect of indifference.

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TheJoker wrote:: To interject one more time I would like to discuss the female's role in guiding male competition amongst themselves.

We all know sexual competition is the greatest primal overdrive of men's competition amongst themselves.

Let's talk about women's role in all of that.

Actually, Joker, nothing makes a man so attractive to a woman as the thought that another woman might want him.

Guest

I've seen it: it's how the players work.

Guest

d63tark wrote:: Yes, IV, but that changes according to what is most valued in any given situation.

Thom Hartman pointed out a study in which women from America, where Capitalism dominates, and women in other western industrialized nations where they have strong safety nets were shown pictures of different kinds of men: some of them kind of effeminate and intellectual and others that were brawny and thick in the neck. What they found out was that in America, the women tended to prefer men that fit the more primal criteria of a man while the women in countries with strong safety nets tended to prefer the less masculine, more intellectual man.

You might have been right back when we were primates or not far removed from it. But things are changing.

And how many women slober all over themselves over femme rockstar types?

Ultimately, it all comes down to what is considered power.

And right now, that power centers around money, not some outdated notion of what a man is.

You are terribly ....out there...

Things are not 'changing'....

Feminized, metrosexual males are not and never will be ideal males...they're sold to us in the media....for very specific, propogandizing reasons....

Take 'Old Spice' and the pheromone deception...

Their latest commercial shows a man walking through the door with loads of coins filling the room while an attractive woman sits on his couch and jokes "but don't tell my nose that..."

They are actually associating money with sexual selection, and simultaneously pulling off a great advertising campaign by using the humor element. The targeted audience subconsciously understands that the woman is looking for an ideal mate who has the right scent, but is being deceived by the product and goes for the man's pocket. She's not even after his scent for the purpose of mating, of course....

It says as long as you wear the right things, there is no need to be genetically fit- everyone agrees...

And that is what you call 'changing times'....

Lots and lots of sexual deception, for the purpose of breaking racial identity, and all manner of making 'equality' the only acceptable theme.

Brought to you by people who really do want to destroy your heritage, and any trace of genetic fitness...(also pushed along by more than willing participants)

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phoneutria wrote:

Kovacs wrote:: If I thought about your post while I was having sex it would undermine the sex act, at least as long as I was thinking this thought.

My heartbeat is a repetitive activity.

My post seems to have no point, but it is actually so deep I am only channeling it.

I laughed a little.

It wasn't really directed at you. I actually meant as bitter.

Subject: Re: Men desire power Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:38 pm

Excellent Poison IV...now consider what deodorant or antiperspirant is.

The male's scent is supposed to give-off the pheromones which projects his genetic fitness.

Masking it, suppressing it, and then replacing it with a cologne and the money to buy it all, this bottled escape from nature and one's own genetic past, is what is sold.
What is being sold is an escape from your own inheritance, as human nature is denied, and all must be born as clean slates to better serve the powers that be.

Money is the system's reward for being a nice, good boy...it is what can help you compensate for inferior genes, The very inferior genes which make you more prone to surrender to system dominance then are compensated for with by the very product of this submission.

See, douche-bag, liberal fucks love to hate eugenics, but here we have eugenics on a massive scale.
If the meme is the continuance of the gene then natural selection gives way to social selection, but societies are mostly the repression, sublimation, and selection of natural processes ergo they are a form of human intervention, just as eugenics are.

But convince a bleeding-heart retard, high on spiritual "awakening" that he is nothing more than a contradiction to his own ideals, just as a christian is a contradiction to the teachings of his God Jesus; convince a retard, spreading "good tidings" about heaven and eternal life that he is a closet nihilist; convince a communist that he nothing more than an extension, or an adaptation, of Jodeo-Chritian slavishness.

You can't.
So, exploit that stupidity.

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Satyr wrote:: Excellent Poison IV...now consider what deodorant or antiperspirant is.

The male's scent is supposed to give-off the pheromones which projects his genetic fitness.

Masking it, suppressing it, and then replacing it with a cologne and the money to buy it all, this bottled escape from nature and one's own genetic past, is what is sold.
What is being sold is an escape from your own inheritance, as human nature is denied, and all must be born as clean slates to better serve the powers that be.

Money is the system's reward for being a nice, good boy...it is what can help you compensate for inferior genes, The very inferior genes which make you more prone to surrender to system dominance then are compensated for with by the very product of this submission.

See, douche-bag, liberal fucks love to hate eugenics, but here we have eugenics on a massive scale.
If the meme is the continuance of the gene then natural selection gives way to social selection, but societies are mostly the repression, sublimation, and selection of natural processes ergo they are a form of human intervention, just as eugenics are.

But convince a bleeding-heart retard, high on spiritual "awakening" that he is nothing more than a contradiction to his own ideals, just as a christian is a contradiction to the teachings of his God Jesus; convince a retard, spreading "good tidings" about heaven and eternal life that he is a closet nihilist; convince a communist that he nothing more than an extension, or an adaptation, of Jodeo-Chritian slavishness.

You can't.
So, exploit that stupidity.

Yes for example many liberals and conservatives alike would dislike the idea of choosing what sort of offspring arrise... and yet that can inevitably done simply by requireing that say hobo's not be alound to have children when we begin population control laws... that is the prevention of particular modes of existence from reproducing and thus the elimination of specific genetic tendencies...

deoderant is odd
it is a lie... liwing about one's smell...
and it alters the peoples natural capacity to subconciously select partners by means of faramonal recognition...
not to mention it wastes a ton of resources for no good reason...
a social stigma... or conundrum

it would be simple enough to just get used to the smell... eventually we would be interested by them and even like many more..
that is why sometimes a person likes the way a fart smells (or think it smells interesting, or telling of what was eaten...)...but still says, "eww..."

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Abstract wrote:

phoneutria wrote:: But isn't in the case that because you need to change to suit the environment, the environment has power over you?
Isn't submittal a yeld of power?

How is it that the environment would have power over you if you are changing in a matter such as to further control it...(by my logic one is already power because they have the amazing capacity to evolve...) that is just strategy, the step in between gaining power... even in the case of say becoming a dictator you must cow toe to the political influence of your order in order to rise to power even be those the politico's of the rebel forces.

Obviously, in the example you gave, cow toeing to the political influence of your order is a sign of the order's power over you. You must play by their rules before you can rise the power ladder and become the rule maker.

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Poison IV wrote:: Already did....no one seemed to bother with it. They prefer bantering around with useless mumbo jumbo, trying to hide any possible sexual influence :pp

I have been ignoring you because you are childish and impudent, and because your argument is, as without-music puts it, "somophoric".
Besides, there is plenty of this "us versus them" discussion going on in other threads already, and I find it dull.

As to the rest of your post, YAWN.
Look past your little corner of the world, in your little bubble of time.

These social constructs are like a plume floating in the air. When the wind stops blowing, they fall.
English only has one verb for esse and stare. I wonder if that has anything to do with this "immediatist" culture of yours.

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Satyr wrote:

phoneutria wrote:: I understand what you say as it is related to power, and compassion as a tool for power.

However, I am making a distinction between success and power.
Power is a lot more obvious than success, it is something that an observer is able to perceive.
Success is to reach a goal, it is personal.

I consider this an aspect of indifference.

I need more.

Guest

Kovacs wrote:

phoneutria wrote:

Kovacs wrote:: If I thought about your post while I was having sex it would undermine the sex act, at least as long as I was thinking this thought.

My heartbeat is a repetitive activity.

My post seems to have no point, but it is actually so deep I am only channeling it.

I laughed a little.

It wasn't really directed at you. I actually meant as bitter.

I laughed because I understood, not because I thought it was directed at me.

Guest

phoneutria wrote:

Poison IV wrote:: Already did....no one seemed to bother with it. They prefer bantering around with useless mumbo jumbo, trying to hide any possible sexual influence :pp

I have been ignoring you because you are childish and impudent, and because your argument is, as without-music puts it, "somophoric".
Besides, there is plenty of this "us versus them" discussion going on in other threads already, and I find it dull.

As to the rest of your post, YAWN.
Look past your little corner of the world, in your little bubble of time.

These social constructs are like a plume floating in the air. When the wind stops blowing, they fall.
English only has one verb for esse and stare. I wonder if that has anything to do with this "immediatist" culture of yours.

I don't know about you but I've evolved past sexually discriminant stereotypes. When asked about my ethnicity, I put '2-legged mammal' just to show how progressive I am.

Guest

phoneutria wrote:

Abstract wrote:

phoneutria wrote:: But isn't in the case that because you need to change to suit the environment, the environment has power over you?
Isn't submittal a yeld of power?

How is it that the environment would have power over you if you are changing in a matter such as to further control it...(by my logic one is already power because they have the amazing capacity to evolve...) that is just strategy, the step in between gaining power... even in the case of say becoming a dictator you must cow toe to the political influence of your order in order to rise to power even be those the politico's of the rebel forces.

Obviously, in the example you gave, cow toeing to the political influence of your order is a sign of the order's power over you. You must play by their rules before you can rise the power ladder and become the rule maker.

such is almost always the case. and some times it is best not to rise to the top because that is how you get assassinated. And thus remain with less acclaimed power equally submitting to behavior expectations yet doing most of the "manipulation".

Subject: Re: Men desire power Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:26 pm

phoneutria wrote:

Satyr wrote:

phoneutria wrote:: I understand what you say as it is related to power, and compassion as a tool for power.

However, I am making a distinction between success and power.
Power is a lot more obvious than success, it is something that an observer is able to perceive.
Success is to reach a goal, it is personal.

I consider this an aspect of indifference.

I need more.

You'll have to do some work on this on your own.
I'm not going to spoon-feed you this and then, down the line, be accused of brain-washing you or infecting you or impregnating your mind with my essence.

Ask yourself:
What is it about someone which is perceptible about him but you cannot put your finger on, which makes him exude power or confidence?
Is it beauty, physical symmetry?
No, because many attractive people are invisible as personalities. Their energies do not match their appearance.
Is it money?
No, because many rich people seem bland and unimpressive when you meet them in person.

So, what is it?
It's an attitude.
Sometimes an attitude which does not make good first impressions as attitude is more about personality and not only movement, grace, a certain style.

Ask yourself why young women, before maturity forces them to put their sexual preferences on the back of more practical considerations, go for the "bad boys"?
These boys need not even be attractive, to look at, not wealthy, but they exude an energy.

What is it?

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