Spaniards and Portuguese

Quote :

And then, there's that little detail about moors reigning on the iberic peninsula for 800 years...

Yes, maybe they were infected with those dull, lethargic African genes and/or culture.

I don't think that's a good excuse, if you intended to use it as one. They conquered a good portion of the world, they had the opportunity to be cultural innovators, either they didn't have the ability or they didn't have the will. I think they might be more complacent than other Europeans.

eyesinthedark wrote:

Quote :

And then, there's that little detail about moors reigning on the iberic peninsula for 800 years...

Yes, maybe they were infected with those dull, lethargic African genes and/or culture.

They are about as "african" as the egyptians.

eyesinthedark wrote:

I don't think that's a good excuse, if you intended to use it as one. They conquered a good portion of the world, they had the opportunity to be cultural innovators, either they didn't have the ability or they didn't have the will. I think they might be more complacent than other Europeans.

Nothing is an excuse.

phoneutria wrote:

They are about as "african" as the egyptians.

Oh sweets, the idea that Egyptian civilization was a Negroid one, is your last vestiges of pride. Outside of this delusion all you have are the Zulu and the Mali and we know how influential and brilliant they were.

Nigger is a nigger....dilute the genes with white, oriental or whatever, it still remains in play.
Genes do not just vanish, like the past....in the best case the past is rewritten to do away with all the nasty, insulting, elements, or it is written over to add what is not there and is not justified by the present.

I forgive you for being a female, but a Nigger?
I don't know...are ya hot?

Satyr wrote:

phoneutria wrote:

Satyr, darling, that is so incorrect it's embarrasing.

I think that you said so, with such brevity, means that it is so.
We'll assume you know what you are talking bout.

phoneutria wrote:

There is nothing jews won't give you for a fee (and a slice of your dick).

Oh sweetie, still caught up on superficiality?

phoneutria wrote:

Is that what we're talking about? I thought we were talking about acomplishments.

"Accomplishment"...now there's another one of those terms little girls use in the convectional way.

phoneutria wrote:

I don't need to know why the jews are so despised. Everybody has their reasons to despise something or someone at a certain point in time, I've got mine. Humans humaning

Darling, that "all have their reasons" is an indication of how simple you are.

"Why does the sun come up every single morning?"
"Well, every day it's for a different reason."

Patterns, sweets, is about establishing what elements are common in the predictable emergence of a phenomenon.
Saying "Everyone has their reasons". implies a level of free-thought not found in humans, it implies a complexity too vast to even attempt to explain, and it postpones judgment, pretending open-mindedness.

"Why do bears shit in the woods?"
"Well, I think each bear has its own reasons."

phoneutria wrote:

And once again, dear, you could't be further from the truth.

If you say so...but thanks for keeping your simplicity so short.

I've never seen you write such an empty post.
You're letting me down, old man.

Satyr wrote:

phoneutria wrote:

They are about as "african" as the egyptians.

Oh sweets, the idea that Egyptian civilization was a Negroid one, is your last vestiges of pride.

lol

Egyptians are bebers, and so are the moors. Thus, moors are about as "african" as the egyptians.

Quote :

Outside of this delusion all you have are the Zulu and the Mali and we know how influential and brilliant they were.

I would not have expected you to know anything about Ethiopia.

Quote :

Nigger is a nigger....dilute the genes with white, oriental or whatever, it still remains in play.
Genes do not just vanish, like the past....in the best case the past is rewritten to do away with all the nasty, insulting, elements, or it is written over to add what is not there and is not justified by the present.

In that case, we're all niggers, love.

Quote :

I forgive you for being a female, but a Nigger?
I don't know...are ya hot?

A nigger is a nigger, an ass is an ass...

phoneutria wrote:

In that case, we're all niggers,

Are you suggesting common origins for all races?

Prove it.

phoneutria wrote:

I've never seen you write such an empty post.
You're letting me down, old man.

This is why you are so simple, predictable and feminine, little woman.

You claim to not be a fan of my verbosity, yet now you use my brevity as a means to protect your stupidity; you claim to not be superficial, yet here you are using age as a weapon in a culture that worships youth.

Listen up....I know the idea of me writhing in pain after your little feminine attacks pleases you, so I will not deny you this pleasure.

I'm only going to tell you this:
If anything age has helped be bring into perspective my lower than average libido which would make imbecile cunts, like you, effective.
I'm not saying that a taste of your luscious lips and your negro ass will not be welcomed, but I am saying that it does...not...matter.

Now, you go back to your Slav boyfriend, who in a year or two will be an ex-boyfriend, an unfortunate mistake (which helped you "grow) you grew out of, and then another "asshole" who did you wrong, and you leave the thinking to others.

Do what comes naturally to your kind:
Show us your tits and ass...Brazilian style.
Shake that booty, flirt, seduce, but, for God's sake, shut the fuck up when it comes to anything outside relationships and sex.
You are stupid as shit.

Do something interesting...spread your legs, and let those pheromones waft into the nostrils of boys who can't help but become erect.

phoneutria wrote:

I would not have expected you to know anything about Ethiopia.

I was going for brevity, dear.
Is this not how you pretend to know what the hell you are talking about?

Tell ya what...research where and when this "brilliant" civilization came to be, then get back to me.
Does the Nile flow down to it, or up to it? These details matter.

I'll give you another hint, you dumb bitch,...remember the Niggers you come from?
Yes?
Well, they "invented" Jazz and Rick'n Roll, no?
When?
Was it after the Nigger came in touch with Caucasian music or before?
Where does Blues come from?
Where does your Brazilian music come from, dear? Did the Niggers conjure it up out of thin air?
Why is it so sexual and provocative?

Now, before you get your panties all moist, and you have to have your slave, I mean Slav, Polack "significant other" put out the fire, allow me to remind you that your gesticulating, chaotic rhythms, which you call music, where you get to fan your arse all over the place, and feel "good" about yourself with, is exactly what makes you exactly what you are.

Please, remind me what is the difference between an animal and a human, in your book, again?
Here is my take....you thinking I am being general and simplistic and reliant on stereotypes is sad when considering that you rely on simple general, stereotypes, based on appearances, to consider yourself a human being equal to me.
YOU thinking you are of MY kind, is insulting, if not contrary to your own ideals...never-mind my own, who does not buy into your bullshit.

Watching you interact, here, or elsewhere, would be like watching a chimp, socialize, fornicate and live.
Please, never deny me that pleasure.


p.s. I know you've sent private pictures, after taking down those you gave for free...big mistake,. Remember, tuts...your tits and arse sell. you must keep the consumer wanting more before you sell it, otherwise you are giving it out for free.
Basic capitalism and consumerism and materialism....the shit you consider yourself "above" and "beyond". I love watching you contradict your own principles, stupid, when you use market principles to make of yourself a commodity worthy of attention from a buyer.
Who is this moron you call your "significant other"?

Ta, Ta,

Quote :

They are about as "african" as the egyptians.

Right, North Africans are a sub-race of Caucasians, just as Europeans are a sub-race of Caucasians. This does not mean North Africans are identical to Europeans, hence sub-race, just that they're more related to Europeans in general than they are to Subsaharans, despite living on the same continent as the Subsaharans. North Africans have been more culturally productive than Subsaharans.. but less than Europeans. However, some of this may be due to the fact that north Africans don't have as temperate a climate as Europeans, so perhaps the north African racial/cultural influx factor is a mitigating one, it's difficult to tell.

Nonetheless it seems, the Iberians have been less productive than other Europeans. Maybe you meant to say that serfdom under the Berbers held them back somehow. Did centuries of plague, famine, warfare and serfdom hold western Europe back as a whole? For a while it did, but once they were rid of these scourges, they initiated one of the most productive and innovative periods of human history, a time of dramatic progress in the human standard of living, not seen since Mesopotamia and Egypt gave us civilization, 5000-4500 years ago.

The Spaniards/Portuguese did not play as big a role in this extraordinary development as some other Europeans. Since they had the opportunity, this must be due to their nature, and/or their culture. In consolation, they did have one of the worlds largest empires, and they gave us Spinoza, Santayana, some artists and architects, some explorers and watercraft innovations, but their contributions aren't as significant as that of their French, English, German and Italian neighbors.

Also worth considering, the Berber occupation did not stop them from conquering a good chunk of the earth, so why would it stop them from being as productive in other endeavors?

Vanitas wrote:

phoneutria wrote:

In that case, we're all niggers,

Are you suggesting common origins for all races?

Prove it.

I never took you for a fringe science type.

I would say that we have common ancestry with apes, are we then all the same kind of ape?

If I begin a trip with a few friends from point A, along with another group headed in a different direction...will our subsequent reunion, along the way, constitute a meeting of equals?

phoneutria wrote:

Vanitas wrote:

phoneutria wrote:

In that case, we're all niggers,

Are you suggesting common origins for all races?

Prove it.

I never took you for a fringe science type.

Oh I'm not. I want to believe that we all originate in a great oneness, a brotherhood of man. Just need the proof.

Of course, the fact that when the conditions are right on a world it seems feasible that life could arise simultaneously, in more than one place, has been a largely overlooked idea by academics.

Well, vanitas, I know you hope, and you can... but there's that whole DNA thing... so annoying.

DNA evidence when it comes to this subject is notoriously open to interpretation.

For example, the computer algorithms they used in trying to prove mtDNA Eve existed were based on faulty models of mtDNA, ones which treated it more like an atomic clock than an imprecise, organic system.

It was nothing more than statistical fudging combined with liberal ideals.

Neither is DNA the universal, abstracted code it's presented as, usually in brightly coloured graphics in a computer generated helix, to lend it some objective credibility.

DNA is part of an organism, as such it has the traits and qualities of the organism. DNA from Africans doesn't even look the same as that of Europeans, let alone function the same.

Satyr wrote:

phoneutria wrote:

I've never seen you write such an empty post.
You're letting me down, old man.

This is why you are so simple, predictable and feminine, little woman.

You claim to not be a fan of my verbosity, yet now you use my brevity as a means to protect your stupidity;

Oh no, satyr, you weren't brief. You were empty
Over a hundred words of absolutely nothing.

Quote :

...you claim to not be superficial, yet here you are using age as a weapon in a culture that worships youth.

Listen up....I know the idea of me writhing in pain after your little feminine attacks pleases you, so I will not deny you this pleasure.

I'm only going to tell you this:
If anything age has helped be bring into perspective my lower than average libido which would make imbecile cunts, like you, effective.
I'm not saying that a taste of your luscious lips and your negro ass will not be welcomed, but I am saying that it does...not...matter.

Only you would have taken that to be a weapon.
It's a term of endearment! You know how husbands often refer to their wives as "the old lady"?
I could just as easily have used "dear", or "sweetcakes" or whatever you please.

But now that you have thrown a fit over it, I can't help but think... does it really not matter?
Your offense is a defense, and a defense exists to hide a vulnerability.
Why are you so age conscious, old man?
We all prize our greys over here, I'm sure.

Quote :

Now, you go back to your Slav boyfriend, who in a year or two will be an ex-boyfriend, an unfortunate mistake (which helped you "grow) you grew out of, and then another "asshole" who did you wrong, and you leave the thinking to others.

Don't concern yourself with my relationship, dear. We can't all be as unhappy as you.

The thinking... yes. I'll leave you to thinking. But first, let us drag ourselves to the rest of this post.

Quote :

Do what comes naturally to your kind:
Show us your tits and ass...Brazilian style.
Shake that booty, flirt, seduce, but, for God's sake, shut the fuck up when it comes to anything outside relationships and sex.
You are stupid as shit.

Do something interesting...spread your legs, and let those pheromones waft into the nostrils of boys who can't help but become erect.

hahahaha
I haven't heard a "shut up, you're stupid" in a long time. Have come down to shutupSHUTUP already, old man?
If it bothers you so, why don't you use that handy little button you have, and kick me out of here. Come on, I know you've thought about it.
Spare yourself the embarrassment of continuing to produce these asinine assumptions about me.

But I''ll grant you the effort. You even read my chats. We'll have a full asinine dossie in no time.

Quote :

phoneutria wrote:

I would not have expected you to know anything about Ethiopia.

I was going for brevity, dear.

Nice try, old man. I actually laughed at this one. Thanks.

Quote :

Is this not how you pretend to know what the hell you are talking about?

Could be.
But instead here we are, on a subject that you brought up, in which you find yourself shuffling around to plug the huge gap I just put in your argument.

Quote :

Tell ya what...research where and when this "brilliant" civilization came to be, then get back to me.
Does the Nile flow down to it, or up to it? These details matter.

Oh, I think you need to read about this brilliant civilization and then get back to me.
I will not lecture you on ancient history, dear. I know you are fully capable of googling this one.

Quote :

I'll give you another hint, you dumb bitch,...remember the Niggers you come from?
Yes?
Well, they "invented" Jazz and Rick'n Roll, no?
When?
Was it after the Nigger came in touch with Caucasian music or before?
Where does Blues come from?
Where does your Brazilian music come from, dear? Did the Niggers conjure it up out of thin air?
Why is it so sexual and provocative?

Let's get that thing about Ethiopia out of the way first, shall we? Go read.

BTW I think rickrolling was invented by 4chan (lol sorry, couldn't help it).

Quote :

Now, before you get your panties all moist, and you have to have your slave, I mean Slav, Polack "significant other" put out the fire, allow me to remind you that your gesticulating, chaotic rhythms, which you call music, where you get to fan your arse all over the place, and feel "good" about yourself with, is exactly what makes you exactly what you are.

I'm having a little trouble understanding this paragraph. I think you got yourself lost in the imagery there for a second. Can't blame you.
But I came to "music is makes you exactly what you are".
Well thank you, satyr. That is very poetic.
Unfortunately, I remain the authority on what makes me what I am. And I'll have to disagree.
What I am, and what makes me what I am, will probably not be revealed to you any time soon. Possibly never.

Quote :

Please, remind me what is the difference between an animal and a human, in your book, again?
Here is my take....you thinking I am being general and simplistic and reliant on stereotypes is sad when considering that you rely on simple general, stereotypes, based on appearances, to consider yourself a human being equal to me.
YOU thinking you are of MY kind, is insulting, if not contrary to your own ideals...never-mind my own, who does not buy into your bullshit.

Watching you interact, here, or elsewhere, would be like watching a chimp, socialize, fornicate and live.
Please, never deny me that pleasure.

Hahahahaha no. I am not of your kind.

The almighty smarter-than-thou kind.

The kind that finds at early age to be above average intelligence, and grows up full of promises and expectations. Only to watch time slip away, and all those promises of greatness fog up in the distance.
And then comes the drudgery of life. Waking up and going to a shitty job where everyone gets to shout orders at you even though they are obviously your inferiors.
All that spite growing in you, year after year.
All those things that you dreamed of, and never accomplished. You don't need them, you tell yourself.
You go over your mantra... my intellectual superiority puts be above... I don't need to be seen as great as long as I know I am great...
Over and over again.
You dig through books and articles in search for knowledge. Anything that will further proof your superiority. Not for love of knowledge but because it feeds your vanity.
You create a shrine for yourself and invite over some of your weaklings to fawn at your mighty intellect and ponder on your complicated psyche.
Despise the world of idiots, those with authority over you. Despise the lameness of your non-challenging job. Despise the women who thought you were weak, who attempted to emasculate you. In the world of ideas, you are king. You are the great vain king of jack shit.

I am not of your kind, no.

Quote :

p.s. I know you've sent private pictures, after taking down those you gave for free...big mistake,. Remember, tuts...your tits and arse sell. you must keep the consumer wanting more before you sell it, otherwise you are giving it out for free.
Basic capitalism and consumerism and materialism....the shit you consider yourself "above" and "beyond". I love watching you contradict your own principles, stupid, when you use market principles to make of yourself a commodity worthy of attention from a buyer.

All my pictures are public. I never took any pictures down.

I am not in the business of selling sex, but if I ever get into it you'll be the first to know.
[/quote]

Quote :

Who is this moron you call your "significant other"?

One that I wish was more into wasting his time with bullshit. Then I could invite him here and you'd see what a man is.

Quote :

Ta, Ta,

Smoochy smooch.

Vanitas wrote:

DNA evidence when it comes to this subject is notoriously open to interpretation.

For example, the computer algorithms they used in trying to prove mtDNA Eve existed were based on faulty models of mtDNA, ones which treated it more like an atomic clock than an imprecise, organic system.

It was nothing more than statistical fudging combined with liberal ideals.

Neither is DNA the universal, abstracted code it's presented as, usually in brightly coloured graphics in a computer generated helix, to lend it some objective credibility.

DNA is part of an organism, as such it has the traits and qualities of the organism. DNA from Africans doesn't even look the same as that of Europeans, let alone function the same.

Hahahahahah I never expected to see you so apologetic.
I guess that is what happens when people try to use science to proof their believes.
Do you know what you sound like to me? Like a creationist, or a climate-change denialist.
It must suck to believe something so bad that you have to be on the wrong side of mainstream science.

But in that case... since I am siding with the mainstream on this one, the burden of proof is on you.
This is going to be good.

phoneutria wrote:

Oh no, satyr, you weren't brief. You were empty
Over a hundred words of absolutely nothing.

I give you what you can understand.

phoneutria wrote:

Only you would have taken that to be a weapon.
It's a term of endearment! You know how husbands often refer to their wives as "the old lady"?
I could just as easily have used "dear", or "sweetcakes" or whatever you please.

I know, it was innocent.

phoneutria wrote:

But now that you have thrown a fit over it, I can't help but think... does it really not matter?
Your offense is a defense, and a defense exists to hide a vulnerability.
Why are you so age conscious, old man?
We all prize our greys over here, I'm sure.

See what I mean?

Keep digging, old hag.

phoneutria wrote:

Don't concern yourself with my relationship, dear. We can't all be as unhappy as you.

No, some of us can lie better.

phoneutria wrote:

hahahaha

This usually follows.
If you add a few more "ha's" or make them bigger it might be more convincing.

phoneutria wrote:

I haven't heard a "shut up, you're stupid" in a long time. Have come down to shutupSHUTUP already, old man?

Little wench is thinking she found a "soft spot"...now she'll milk it for all its worth, convinced that she's doing damage.

Oh and SHUT THE FUCK-UP you stupid BITCH!!!
See?

phoneutria wrote:

If it bothers you so, why don't you use that handy little button you have, and kick me out of here. Come on, I know you've thought about it.
Spare yourself the embarrassment of continuing to produce these asinine assumptions about me.

I think you being bothersome is like a baby crying for attention. When it gets it, it is negative, but it is attention nonetheless.

phoneutria wrote:

But I''ll grant you the effort. You even read my chats. We'll have a full asinine dossie in no time.

It was boring shit....funny though.
Are you going to save the boy? Will you "whip" him into shape?

phoneutria wrote:

Nice try, old man. I actually laughed at this one. Thanks.

See?

phoneutria wrote:

Could be.
But instead here we are, on a subject that you brought up, in which you find yourself shuffling around to plug the huge gap I just put in your argument.

Did you?
Can you re-post it, I missed in in all the babbling.

I think the only gap you plug is in between your legs, dear....but that doesn't last for long.

phoneutria wrote:

Oh, I think you need to read about this brilliant civilization and then get back to me.
I will not lecture you on ancient history, dear. I know you are fully capable of googling this one.

No, let's assume they were niggers, like you...and go off feeling good about the world.

phoneutria wrote:

Let's get that thing about Ethiopia out of the way first, shall we? Go read.

I think Ethiopia was a fabulous civilization. We are living under the lights of its eternal flame.
But then again what do you expect from a nigger who thinks inventing peanut-butter is the same as inventing the internal combustion engine?

phoneutria wrote:

Unfortunately, I remain the authority on what makes me what I am. And I'll have to disagree.

Of course you do because you know yourself so well...like a bitch (the canine type) knows herself better than a human can.
Like how being a nigger is twisted into a term of endearment in your mind.

phoneutria wrote:

Hahahahaha no. I am not of your kind.

The almighty smarter-than-thou kind.

There's that nervousness with that accompanying declaration.
This time a few more "ha's" were placed there...you took the time to type them out.

But you didn't call me "old man", putting salt on that wound you found.
Tell me more about my fear of growing old.

phoneutria wrote:

The kind that finds at early age to be above average intelligence, and grows up full of promises and expectations. Only to watch time slip away, and all those promises of greatness fog up in the distance.
And then comes the drudgery of life. Waking up and going to a shitty job where everyone gets to shout orders at you even though they are obviously your inferiors.
All that spite growing in you, year after year.
All those things that you dreamed of, and never accomplished. You don't need them, you tell yourself.
You go over your mantra... my intellectual superiority puts be above... I don't need to be seen as great as long as I know I am great...
Over and over again.
You dig through books and articles in search for knowledge. Anything that will further proof your superiority. Not for love of knowledge but because it feeds your vanity.
You create a shrine for yourself and invite over some of your weaklings to fawn at your mighty intellect and ponder on your complicated psyche.
Despise the world of idiots, those with authority over you. Despise the lameness of your non-challenging job. Despise the women who thought you were weak, who attempted to emasculate you. In the world of ideas, you are king. You are the great vain king of jack shit.

Very nice exposee....it seems like "job" is a common theme here. That and that passage of time.
Typical for a female living in this age.

I love the exhibition of feminine spite. I drink in its anger and hatred.

phoneutria wrote:

I am not of your kind, no.

Are you "happy" in your "job" nigger?
Does it fulfill you, and give you an identity?
How old are you? Tick-tock....tick-tock...

phoneutria wrote:

All my pictures are public. I never took any pictures down.

It's the only thing that gets you noticed, dear.

phoneutria wrote:

I am not in the business of selling sex, but if I ever get into it you'll be the first to know.

Oh my dear, what a contradiction.
Your pics were oozing with sex...but you "know yourself" so who am I to contradict you?
You just keep being what you are.

phoneutria wrote:

One that I wish was more into wasting his time with bullshit. Then I could invite him here and you'd see what a man is.

Indeed, but I think you've always made the "right" decision, babycakes.
I think he must be a genius...for you to have him. On your level, at least.

Please continue to contradict my positions about females by being such a perfect example of a modern one.
Maybe my penis is small.

Ta, Ta,

Enough of this mundane babble.

So, we're all in agreement spain's/port's are either dumber or intellectually lazier than the average Frenchman, or German?

Furthermore, where is nigger civilization, and why were native north Americans not able to erect a civilization, when native Central and Southern Americans were, despite inhabiting an inferior locale? Are North American Natives dumber and/or lazier than the average Central/Southern Native American? These are the questions scientists should be asking themselves. Unfortunately their religion (liberalism) does not permit it.

with all the abundant land and resources, maybe it was just easier to just be nomadic for the native north americans whereas the aztecs eventually just consolidated to form a civilization. there is also just chance or certain individuals making a decision that snowballs in one direction vs another. history and evolution is affected by environment and known/unknown variables as well as chance.

even taking a look at chinese history shows how one's decisions or lack thereof affect history. an emperor destroyed their fleet and stopped all expeditions.

as for africans, it's obvious. they never needed to. it's rich in resources and very hot. there was no motivation for advanced shelter etc.

Quote :

with all the abundant land and resources, maybe it was just easier to just be nomadic for the native north americans whereas the aztecs eventually just consolidated to form a civilization.

Europe and China had plenty of land and resources. Usually liberals say the opposite, they say- so and so didn't have enough land and resources to develop a civilization, now you're making the opposite suggestion.. OK, so why not a Papua New Guinea civilization, there wasn't much resource or land there? ? ?
You think think the North Americans would've took advantage of all that surplus resource, but they did not.
Civilization doesn't arise out of need anyway, it arises out of want, wanting more out of life, wanting surplus food production, leisure and luxuries.

Quote :

there is also just chance or certain individuals making a decision that snowballs in one direction vs another. history and evolution is affected by environment and known/unknown variables as well as chance.

The butterfly effect. Perhaps North Americans had a surplus of positive butterfly effects, more than Europe, that pushed them in the direction of civilization, but because they were so stupid, they did not take advantage of them.
Butterfly effects are unknown unknowns, unknowables, they're a cop out. Let's try to find the definitive explanation here. Philosophy is about solving problems (excuse me, genuine philosophy), not complicating matters more than they already are, let's solve, in favor of the leftists, or the rightists, was it environment, culture or genes, which one (all 3, perhaps)? Why no civilization, lazy-dumb, inhibited somehow, what was holding them back, specifically?

i don't know, do you have the answer?

maybe the root has to do with religion or mental mindframe which produces particular religions both with their pros and cons.

easterly religions tend to be more about oneness with nature whereas western religion is about belief that humans are separate from nature. the latter would faciliate a more technological or more unnatural bent eventually as it would view everything in nature as objects for manipulation and use. to 'rise' above it, so to speak.

as for aztecs vs other native americans, maybe it was something in the water. maybe there was just a more ambitious group that ended up migrating there, by chance. i'm no anthropologist.

eyesinthedark wrote:

Quote :

They are about as "african" as the egyptians.

Right, North Africans are a sub-race of Caucasians, just as Europeans are a sub-race of Caucasians. This does not mean North Africans are identical to Europeans, hence sub-race, just that they're more related to Europeans in general than they are to Subsaharans, despite living on the same continent as the Subsaharans. North Africans have been more culturally productive than Subsaharans.. but less than Europeans. However, some of this may be due to the fact that north Africans don't have as temperate a climate as Europeans, so perhaps the north African racial/cultural influx factor is a mitigating one, it's difficult to tell.

You think that the berbers were less culturally productive than the "europeans"?

Quote :

Nonetheless it seems, the Iberians have been less productive than other Europeans. Maybe you meant to say that serfdom under the Berbers held them back somehow. Did centuries of plague, famine, warfare and serfdom hold western Europe back as a whole? For a while it did, but once they were rid of these scourges, they initiated one of the most productive and innovative periods of human history, a time of dramatic progress in the human standard of living, not seen since Mesopotamia and Egypt gave us civilization, 5000-4500 years ago.

I didn't bring it up to justify or excuse anything. You started off with proposal that the iberic people are different from the rest of europe. Thus, it only makes sense that you should explore the differences. The berber occupation of europe was exclusively restricted to the iberic peninsula. If you are interested on the subject, you should look into it. Another brief observation, we're talking about the berber occupation, the plague, the renaissance, the exploration of the sea/conquest of new territories, etc without even mentioning the period in which they occurred. It's kind of important.

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The Spaniards/Portuguese did not play as big a role in this extraordinary development as some other Europeans. Since they had the opportunity, this must be due to their nature, and/or their culture. In consolation, they did have one of the worlds largest empires, and they gave us Spinoza, Santayana, some artists and architects, some explorers and watercraft innovations, but their contributions aren't as significant as that of their French, English, German and Italian neighbors.

What do you mean when you say that they had the opportunity? That being the same as other europeans and having the same means, they should have contributed as much?
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Also worth considering, the Berber occupation did not stop them from conquering a good chunk of the earth, why did it stop them from being as productive in other endeavors?

Have you considered the possibility that their focus on conquest might have been what stopped them from being as productive in other endeavors?

It sounds to me like you don't have the whole picture yet.

phoneutria wrote:

Hahahahahah I never expected to see you so apologetic.

Sometimes it takes a hammer to crack a nut, other times just a tap will do.

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I guess that is what happens when people try to use science to proof their believes.

This isn't a hard science, so it's not surprising that even those working at the cutting edge can be entirely guided by political and economic forces, without reality creeping in at all.

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Do you know what you sound like to me? Like a creationist, or a climate-change denialist.

The climate is always changing. In fact the Earth's average operating temperature over geological time shows no evidence of ice at the poles.

As for creationism, I'm a hard atheist.

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It must suck to believe something so bad that you have to be on the wrong side of mainstream science.

I dread being unfashionable... it's the pits.

I wish I had more friends...

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But in that case... since I am siding with the mainstream on this one, the burden of proof is on you.
This is going to be good.

There's nothing to disprove. The field is open to the most daring and adventurous thinkers, not those who fearfully follow the establishment like trained monkeys, ironically the very monkeys who only a century ago were berating it for not paying them enough attention and considering them as equals.

I mean, don't they have any integrity?

cranapple wrote:

easterly religions tend to be more about oneness with nature whereas western religion is about belief that humans are separate from nature. the latter would faciliate a more technological or more unnatural bent eventually as it would view everything in nature as objects for manipulation and use. to 'rise' above it, so to speak.

This is because eastern culture is more feminine, as the people are more feminine in their nature, both men and women alike, compared to other races.

Masculinity wants to separate itself off from the world, to control and dominate.

There was a great thread over at ILP written by some Asian guy, who claimed he was 'feminine' heterosexual, and who celebrated the decline of masculinity in Western culture. I'll try and find it.

Edit: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

There is this:

Satyr wrote:

Nigger is a nigger....dilute the genes with white, oriental or whatever, it still remains in play.
Genes do not just vanish, like the past....in the best case the past is rewritten to do away with all the nasty, insulting, elements, or it is written over to add what is not there and is not justified by the present.

And then there is this:

Satyr wrote:

I would say that we have common ancestry with apes, are we then all the same kind of ape?

If I begin a trip with a few friends from point A, along with another group headed in a different direction...will our subsequent reunion, along the way, constitute a meeting of equals?

So, which is it?

Both, dear.


Your past cannot be overcome, though it can be ignored or forgotten.

I am my ancestry....but my ancestry is not the same as yours.
Our common ancestor is our bond, how we dealt with it, what happened from then to now, all participates in our distinctive characters and characteristics.

That in your bloodline you've "re-dipped" your genetic pool into the primal, or the more base, is part of who and what you are.
You carry it with you.

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i don't know, do you have the answer?

maybe the root has to do with religion or mental mindframe which produces particular religions both with their pros and cons.

easterly religions tend to be more about oneness with nature whereas western religion is about belief that humans are separate from nature. the latter would faciliate a more technological or more unnatural bent eventually as it would view everything in nature as objects for manipulation and use. to 'rise' above it, so to speak.

This not always so. Buddhism, as far as I can tell, isn't pro nature, or anti nature, it's indifferent, Buddhism is profound indifference and pessimism toward the world, like Schopenhauer, or nihilism, it doesn't celebrate nature, it hates it, but preaches there is nothing we can do about, except accept things the way they are, life and death, pleasure and pain, and once we accept it, we will be free from it, mentally. As far as I can tell, the ultimate goal of Buddhism is to cease to exist, to end the wheel of life, death and rebirth, so it isn't pro nature, but it's not exactly a civilized attitude, it's an attitude of resignation from the world, civilized or primitive. Taoism on the other hand, seems very pro nature. Confucianism seems pro civilization. The thing about Confucianism though, is it places emphasis on cultivating the self, on virtue, ahead of material wealth, power and hedonism. All Chinese philosophies and religions seemed more preoccupied virtue than success, as we would define it. Pay attention, this dichotomy between cultivation of the self, and cultivation of the environment is just as important as rationalism vs empiricism, or idealism vs materialism. Something happened in the west, particularly with the enlightenment, we began, for the first time, to place wealth, power, pleasure and materialism far, far above the usual, politics, religion, ethics, morality, etc. Now, what lead to this idea? Was it a product of the Anglo Saxon/Scottish mind? Does the British soul work differently than the souls of other peoples? Do they have a soul? Virtue teaches us valuable things, you see, like the difference between need and want, justice and injustice, has western man forgot such things, is the Anglo Saxon scourge spreading to other parts of the world. When people like Vanitas speak of order, they speak of material order, but they are unaware of a different kind of order, a kind even the Greeks and the Romans were more aware of than we are today, and the east are all too familiar with it.

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as for aztecs vs other native americans, maybe it was something in the water. maybe there was just a more ambitious group that ended up migrating there, by chance. i'm no anthropologist.

I am my own anthropologist. Does that mean I don't listen to what the experts have to say? No, of course not, I consider their claims and their proofs, then I come to my own conclusion. I don't have the time, nor the will to listen to all their claims and proofs, so I must be selective. I will not hesitate to question their authority when something doesn't add up right, I will not be faithful. They are in the business of selling us information, and if a waitress brings me food and it smells bad, I will not hesitate to walk out or demand a refund, I do not passively gobble up everything they send my way. The consumer of science must be as just as scrutinizing and wily as any other consumer. You see it's buyer beware. No, scientific knowledge is not our collective knowledge, not my knowledge, their knowledge, each individual, that is, each individual capable of exercising critical thought, must decide for themselves- do I believe this or not, do I accept what they have to say or not. Science is a two way street, it's not enough that they must be critical and empirical, we must be just as critical and empirical of them as they are supposed to be of each other and the data they rely on, and conclusions they draw from it.

We can't be certain, but since the North American Natives had far more land and resources than the central and southern Americans, yet for thousands of years, many civilizations, big and small, arose in central and southern America, yet only one or two small civilizations in North America, I think it's safe to conclude their must be something culturally different about them. Racially they're more/less the same, there are some slight differences.

Would you mind reducing the dimentions of your icon, eyes, as a courtesy to other members?
It is destroying the forum tabulation.