Thermodynamics and Entropy

phoneutria wrote:

Because the laws of thermodynamics are about heat transfer.

You mean heat energy. It is vector; has directionality.

Yes.

Lyssa wrote:

Anfang wrote:

phono wrote:

We are not at a risk of elimination of any particular ethnicity, so long as we respect the rules that have been established within societies, which give the individuals the ultimate authority on their reproductive functions, and therefore, aryans may continue to be attracted to and mate with other aryans and thus provide many future generations of beautiful, pure [in]bred blond babies. Unless they don't want to, in which case, they are the ones to answer for their choices, aren't they?

Giving all individuals free choice IS a way of influencing an ethnicity. It IS a way of changing the genetic composition of a species or sub-species over generations.

c. Heathen.

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I wish they did that in the US. That's effectively remove affirmative action from law.

Phoneutria wrote:

What I am doing is helping clarify that the laws of thermodynamics do not apply to racial dynamics in a literal way. Even as a metaphor, the relation is questionable.

I disagree.
Chimpanzees have a higher body temperature than humans, and blacks have a higher body temperature than whites.

Quote :

The primates form a somewhat heterogenous group in regard to body temperature.
Thus, in the bulk of the species the temperature ranges daily from 37.5 to 39 degrees C whereas the ordinary range in man is 36.5 to 37.5 degrees C.

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Quote :

Man 37 degrees C
Baboon 38.1 degrees C

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There are numerous other qualities such as bone density, muscle fiber, heart rate and gestation period that can be measured on a gradient scale suggesting that entropic processes are possibly at work in evolution.

Recidivist wrote:

Phoneutria wrote:

What I am doing is helping clarify that the laws of thermodynamics do not apply to racial dynamics in a literal way. Even as a metaphor, the relation is questionable.

I disagree.
Chimpanzees have a higher body temperature than humans, and blacks have a higher body temperature than whites.  

Quote :

The primates form a somewhat heterogenous group in regard to body temperature.
Thus, in the bulk of the species the temperature ranges daily from 37.5 to 39 degrees C whereas the ordinary range in man is 36.5 to 37.5 degrees C.

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Quote :

Man 37 degrees C
Baboon 38.1 degrees C

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

There are numerous other qualities such as bone density, muscle fiber, heart rate and gestation period that can be measured on a gradient scale suggesting that entropic processes are possibly at work in evolution.

Entropic processes are at work in evolution when it comes to preserving and dissipating heat in order to better suit the needs of the environment.
I don't understand what point you are trying to make, though. Are you saying that species fit for surviving in arid environments contribute more to entropy than species fit for surviving in frozen environments?

Sure.

But then, humans have a higher body heat dissipation rate than mice, so I don't think that you can extract any valuable evolutionary insight from that observation.

If this is not the point you were making, would you mind elaborating?

Lyssa wrote:

Anfang wrote:

phono wrote:

We are not at a risk of elimination of any particular ethnicity, so long as we respect the rules that have been established within societies, which give the individuals the ultimate authority on their reproductive functions, and therefore, aryans may continue to be attracted to and mate with other aryans and thus provide many future generations of beautiful, pure [in]bred blond babies. Unless they don't want to, in which case, they are the ones to answer for their choices, aren't they?

Giving all individuals free choice IS a way of influencing an ethnicity. It IS a way of changing the genetic composition of a species or sub-species over generations.

c. Heathen.

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Maybe they actually believe the bs they talk themselves. Or they try to diffuse the racial groups of immigrants to better integrate them into the mimetic modern paradigm. Probably both.

phono wrote:

We can discuss this, if you want to, even though I know I am shooting myself in the foot for suggesting that we do   

I insist that we don't shoot you in the foot.

The only laws that I can think of which would involve "race" in the wording would be laws against racial discrimination and other laws regarding providing some sort of advantage to minorities, so if that link was posted with the intention to show that the white majority of Sweden is in any way threatened by this move, I do not see that at all.

Anfang wrote:

phono wrote:

We can discuss this, if you want to, even though I know I am shooting myself in the foot for suggesting that we do   

I insist that we don't shoot you in the foot.

Thank you, dear. After all, we have been there, haven't we?

Then there are those unwritten laws which call racists and hater, anyone who reminds morons that without races evolution does not work, and that species do not just emerge, suddenly, as if God made them out of nothing,....you know just because.

You know the type, dear.
The type who thinks anyone who is honest in a world of duplicitous cunts is a bitter sad old man...because healthy men participate in the bullshit as if it does not matter.

Let's agree to disagree for the children, dear; for that millions of retards who will be protected from the world's cruelty, from its "bullies", and will grow to spread his retarded genes forever more...amen.
you know the type, dear.
The one who will think he survived because we was worth it, and not because the laws protected him from his own stupidity.

Unwritten laws are laws of societal coercion.
This, once again, to me, falls under an effect by people upon themselves, by their free will to do so.

Quote :

I say let them fall. Nature at work.

Free = Independence

Will = to lack, Dependence.

When you explain how one can will, what one lacks, needs, desires, wants, and be independently dependent, you might impress me.

What of coercion with no alternative?
Is this not totalitarianism?
Shall we seek refuge in hypocrisy, and repeat the lie, though we think it ridiculous?
You don't see the cost there; the risk?

Satyr wrote:

Then there are those unwritten laws which call racists and hater, anyone who reminds morons that without races evolution does not work, and that species do not just emerge, suddenly, as if God made them out of nothing,....you know just because.

You know the type, dear.
The type who thinks anyone who is honest in a world of duplicitous cunts is a bitter sad old man...because healthy men participate in the bullshit as if it does not matter.

Let's agree to disagree for the children, dear; for that millions of retards who will be protected from the world's cruelty, from its "bullies", and will grow to spread his retarded genes forever more...amen.
you know the type, dear.
The one who will think he survived because we was worth it, and not because the laws protected him from his own stupidity.

A culture which must use laws instead of explanation in order to keep order has already conceded to failing.

[quote]

Satyr wrote:

Free = Independence

Will = to lack, Dependence.

When you explain how one can will, what one lacks, needs, desires, wants, and be independently dependent, you might impress me.

Western law is such that it gives all equal rights and freedoms to pursue the whims of their will, so long as those whims do not impede upon the rights of others.

Quote :

What of coercion with no alternative?
Is this not totalitarianism?

No such thing. To the strong, to stand their ground. To the weak, to fall.

Quote :

Shall we seek refuge in hypocrisy, and repeat the lie, though we think it ridiculous?
You don't see the cost there; the risk?    

Of what hypocrisy do you speak?

phoneee wrote:

Satyr wrote:

Free = Independence

Will = to lack, Dependence.

When you explain how one can will, what one lacks, needs, desires, wants, and be independently dependent, you might impress me.

Western law is such that it gives all equal rights and freedoms to pursue the whims of their will, so long as those whims do not impede upon the rights of others.

And so free-will is a self-contradicting concept.

The "right" to exist in your own reality is sheltering.
To pursue your whims is free, when it cares not for the repercussions, because it is protected from them.  

phoneee wrote:

Of what hypocrisy do you speak?

The lie of equal respectability, value, sensibility, taste, intelligence, potentials; the lie of valuing honesty, and the lie of rights, and or deserving.

Rights are given when you've paid...
The payment is what moderns ignore, or minimize.
The right is to remain as childlike as possible.

This conversation is out of scope. Feel free to post it in one of the race threads.

Following excerpts are of a leftist-sociology that I do not identify with.

But I post it to give an idea of a Thermodynamic Approach to social systems.

Quote :

"The human traditions of philosophy and religions are expressions of the human pursuit of salvation. If the constant theme of philosophies and religions -- the Source of existence experienced as God, Being, the Infinite, the Boundless, the Unborn -- is conditioned by the human memory of the first law of thermodynamics, then human salvation -- always in terms of the return to this Source -- is the attempt to negate the second law of thermodynamics with the first law -- the theme of all symbolic expressions that constitute all philosophies and all religions. While the first law promises Eternity (because of necessary conservation), the second law ordains necessary dissolution and meaningless, finite, and temporary existence enslaved to dissipative functions (eating and defecating) and which it has thus been human yearning to negate. This negation is the spiritual meaning of life. Since the first step in such negation always consists in the recognition of the source, and therefore the structure, of existence, it is frequently spoken of as the "Universe becoming conscious of itself through human consciousness": the anthropic principle. But one has to remember that the spiritual meaning of life does not exhaust itself in this Self-Consciousness, but in the salvation that results from this Self-Consciousness.

It will be shown that "power", understood truly, is a function of consumption, and so of the second law.1 The second law defines the human experience of time or temporality, and power/ consumption is thus a phenomenon of temporal nature. Temporality (along with spatiality, its concomitant) has always been identified as the origin of evil and suffering: that much has remained constant throughout history. Amidst the passing away of time, certain enlightened souls of the human species have, from time to time, searched for and recognized the a-temporal , the eternal lying behind the coming-into-being-and-passing-away of the temporal things; that is, they have found that negation of time which promises salvation from the destructive power of time which renders everything meaningless. That negation is of course the first law of thermodynamics -- that despite entropy increase, really nothing changes at all: the ultimate fact of Conservation. These enlightened souls spoke of their experience of this salvational conservation in systems of symbols called philosophy or in myths called (testamental) religions. The nature of negation thus will also remain the same. What will change, as said, is the content of the formulation, from myth to science.

But this thermodynamic explanation of the origin of Life tells us that life evolves as the vehicle of Nature for dissipating order, and so that the meaning of Life in general is mindless consumption (of order: foodstuffs) and defecation (into disorder: waste), which ultimately means the destruction of the environment. (In fact, since it is supposed to be a thermodynamic dissipative structure, the goal of any life is ultimately defecation, and it is only to defecate that life consumes at all.) That an organism does its job so well and destroys its environment, killing itself in the process, has already happened before -- not just a peculiarity of the human species: the most famous being the cyanobacteria that destroyed the CO2 atmosphere of the Earth with their oxygenic waste some 1.5 billion years ago, causing the whole-sale extinction of anaerobic life-forms predominant in the first half of the Earth's history, but incidentally creating the oxygen-rich atmosphere that made us -- the multicellular eukaryotic organisms -- possible today.

This is the material meaning of life. Life, or organisms, are forms of open dissipative structures, and the meaning of life is defecation and, through it, the possible destruction of its environment."

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Quote :

"Good is hard and evil easy, as discussed, because of the statistical situation that governs the formation of order. Hence, in relation to the definition of virtue (h areth) as the "mean state" (mesothV), which, we'll show, means really the most ordered state, Aristotle (The Nicomachean Ethics, II. vi. 14 - 15.) has also mentioned that this state of our disposition (exiV) is the most difficult to achieve because:

eti to men amartanein pollacwV estin.... to de katorqoun monacwV: dio kai to men raidion to de calepon, raidion men to apotucein tou skopou, calepon de to epitucein....
esqloi men gar aplwV, pantodapwV de kakoi
Error [missing the mark] is multiform, but success is one way only: which is why [to fail] is easy but [to succeed] is hard; easy to miss the target and difficult to hit it....

Goodness is simple, badness manifold.
That thermodynamics, or the statistical situation governing order-formation, clearly explains why this is so immediately demonstrates that Aristotle's virtue, anything good, or whatever successful endeavor, all consists in order-formation which is hard because it is statistically the least likely configuration. In the figure below, for example, total order (with all whites on one side and all blacks on the other) has only one possible form (given rotation), whereas the disorderly state comes in many configurations and so is the far more frequent outcome:

(Pythagoras...)

o o | * *        o * | * o    o o | o *
o o | * *        * o | o *    * o | * o
o o | * *        o o | * o    * * | o *
o o | * *        * * | o *    o o | * *
o o | * *        o * | * *    * o | * *
o o | * *        o o | * o    * o | o o    

    1                1            2             3   ...etc.            
low entropy      high entropy
("virtue")          (bad)

At the tribal, pre-ethical stage, goodness and badness are represented by good and bad gods, and (religious) taboo is a system that preserves order (whether of society or of the cosmos) by forbidding things that cause the dissolution of order (which not only include the typically evil things, but also the unscrupulous use of originally good things). Since order or what is good, just like life in general, is "an island of low entropy in an increasingly random universe", hence precious and always endangered, it must be protected with special caution and handled and reared with care.

From this point on the understanding of order (what is good) and dis-order (the dissolution of order or what is bad) begins evolving during the First Axial on two different paths. On the one hand, on the path toward the second mode of salvation, everything is interiorized. Order becomes the order of the "soul" (the mind), i.e. its concentration and stabilization away from the equilibrium state of the exterior material world, and dis-order means such equilibrium of the mind with the material world (the "wandering of the mind" among the material things in the world)."

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Coercive speech modulation by trying to mold the category of discussion.

In this thread, not only do we see the attempt at Modern Schizoid Splitting of metaphysics and physics just like it tried to split its Body and Mind in the Surrender thread via its nihilistic cynicism, but even more Modern is the attempt to Relativize healthy Racialism against the victim's Affirmative Action.

The logic of saying removing any mention of Race from law as solving the victim morality of affirmative action is akin to d63 suggesting capitalist ecological damage can be slowed down by accelerating Feminization and sterilizing, removing all masculine aggression.

Whatever.

phoneutria wrote:

Entropic processes are at work in evolution when it comes to preserving and dissipating heat in order to better suit the needs of the environment.
I don't understand what point you are trying to make, though. Are you saying that species fit for surviving in arid environments contribute more to entropy than species fit for surviving in frozen environments?

What I'm doing is treating species as evolutionary engines, having some initial condition of low entropy, but gradually dissipating energy and information over time.

Each reproduction of the DNA potentially increases entropy in the form of random mutations, genetic drift and replication errors. One can also take into account damage to the DNA from the local environment.
The species as a whole experiences increasing disorder.

Different races do not all exist in the same state of entropy, and I think it's not possible entirely to differentiate the affects of entropy from what we call evolution.

Although the individual organism can repair itself in early life and appears not to be subject to the aging process, this is only because of the excess energy stored in the body, more efficient transfer of food into energy, and the healthy, ordered state of the DNA, but this begins to wane in adulthood, and the inevitable aging process (entropy) sets in.

Another model: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Lyssa wrote:

Coercive speech modulation by trying to mold the category of discussion.

In this thread, not only do we see the attempt at Modern Schizoid Splitting of metaphysics and physics just like it tried to split its Body and Mind in the Surrender thread via its nihilistic cynicism, but even more Modern is the attempt to Relativize healthy Racialism against the victim's Affirmative Action.

The logic of saying removing any mention of Race from law as solving the victim morality of affirmative action is akin to d63 suggesting capitalist ecological damage can be slowed down by accelerating Feminization and sterilizing, removing all masculine aggression.

Whatever.

All you did was post a link.
If you have a point to make, then make it.

Quote :

Lyssa wrote:

Coercive speech modulation by trying to mold the category of discussion.

In this thread, not only do we see the attempt at Modern Schizoid Splitting of metaphysics and physics just like it tried to split its Body and Mind in the Surrender thread via its nihilistic cynicism, but even more Modern is the attempt to Relativize healthy Racialism against the victim's Affirmative Action.

The logic of saying removing any mention of Race from law as solving the victim morality of affirmative action is akin to d63 suggesting capitalist ecological damage can be slowed down by accelerating Feminization and sterilizing, removing all masculine aggression.

Whatever.

All you did was post a link.
If you have a point to make, then make it.

Quote :

"the laws of thermodynamics do not apply to racial dynamics in a literal way. Even as a metaphor, the relation is questionable."

Quote :

" 'tis not so. "

phoneeee wrote:

This conversation is out of scope. Feel free to post it in one of the race threads.

Oh sweetie, if I do that, you'll go off on a huff, accuse me of censoring you because I fear your "challenge', and that I am censoring you, and then you will demand I return the thread to how it was or else you will not come back to grace us with your genius.

I don't mind playing that feminine game, which only asks of me to arrest my reason, swallow my pride, and give in to a simple creature for the sake of some motive I cannot disclose, but repetition becomes a bit tiresome.

Recidivist went to great effort to connect certain ideas for you, have the integrity to at least admit you cannot follow because you are too dumb.
This kind of shit might work in the States or in Brazil, but you are on an international stage here.

No point has been made.

Satyr wrote:

phoneeee wrote:

This conversation is out of scope. Feel free to post it in one of the race threads.

Oh sweetie, if I do that, you'll go off on a huff, accuse me of censoring you because I fear your "challenge', and that I am censoring you, and then you will demand I return the thread to how it was or else you will not come back to grace us with your genius.

I don't mind playing that feminine game, which only asks of me to arrest my reason, swallow my pride, and give in to a simple creature for the sake of some motive I cannot disclose, but repetition becomes a bit tiresome.

Recidivist went to great effort to connect certain ideas for you, have the integrity to at least admit you cannot follow because you are too dumb.  
This kind of shit might work in the States or in Brazil, but you are on an international stage here.

Recidivist is making connections with the OP which are worth exploring. You're not. You're devolving the thread into a tangent that will cause it to be identical to a dozen other race threads on the forum. Pardon if I don't reciprocate.

Typing random letters on a typewriter will eventually produce entire words among them by chance. Writing entire sentences with that method, especially if they are to make sense in already much less probable; writing an entire chapter practically impossible.

Arranging already existing words randomly may produce sentences by chance. Arranging random words into whole chapters is again much less probable.
Yet, arranging whole chapters via the method of arranging random words is much more probable than writing an entire chapter with the method of random keystrokes on a typewriter.

The difference is the level on which the random selection, the element of chance, is taking place.


We take it for granted that mixing the DNA of two individuals is mainly done via the method of exchanging chromosomes.
To use the chapter or book metaphor - the book baby is not written by mixing the letters of two books randomly or even the words of two books but by mixing the chapters of both books.

This significantly reduces the number of possible combinations. It's a way of conserving established patterns. Because already working combinations of words in a chapter (combinations of genes of a chromosomes) are passed on as a whole chapter (chromosome).

In living organisms there is a balance between conserving patterns and remaining capable of enough variability for adaptation and for circumventing genetic dead ends in the long run.
The higher the variability the higher the rate of eventually dysfunctional offspring which necessitates a higher rate of culling.
The increase in entropy happens quicker with each generation, requiring more selective pressure.
On the other side of that spectrum, a higher rate of conserving patterns reduces variability, comes with a lower requirement for culling but also requires enough foresight by the organisms to make intelligent decisions in terms of mating to select healthy and more compatible mates.
This bias of like attract like can be observed in many social animals.

One confronts the problem head on when it comes to genetic health.
Taking genetically unhealthy population Y, and attempting to improve it by crossbreeding with healthy population X, will require several generations of X to be sacrificed, and even then the result will not be as optimal as X alone.

Overall, it is like trying to make synthetic oil, where the energy going in is more than what can be taken out.
The longevity and fitness of the species has been compromised by sacrificing X and to no advantage.

The best course of action is to encourage X to go on breeding amongst itself or with other healthy populations, and let Y slowly die out.

This is why liberals are so terrified of eugenics and seek to characterize it as a Nazi attempt to create a 'master race', when it is nothing more than a realist approach to ensuring the species lives on healthily for as long as possible in the face of increasing entropy.

Ironically, secular liberals and the religious are once again on the same side, as both seek to deny or mitigate the effects of entropy to maintain social order.
An irrational and futile action.

phoneutria wrote:

Quote :

Entropic processes are at work in evolution when it comes to preserving and dissipating heat in order to better suit the needs of the environment.
I don't understand what point you are trying to make, though. Are you saying that species fit for surviving in arid environments contribute more to entropy than species fit for surviving in frozen environments?

Recidivist wrote:

Quote :

What I'm doing is treating species as evolutionary engines, having some initial condition of low entropy, but gradually dissipating energy and information over time.

Each reproduction of the DNA potentially increases entropy in the form of random mutations, genetic drift and replication errors. One can also take into account damage to the DNA from the local environment.
The species as a whole experiences increasing disorder.

Different races do not all exist in the same state of entropy, and I think it's not possible entirely to differentiate the affects of entropy from what we call evolution.

Although the individual organism can repair itself in early life and appears not to be subject to the aging process, this is only because of the excess energy stored in the body, more efficient transfer of food into energy, and the healthy, ordered state of the DNA, but this begins to wane in adulthood, and the inevitable aging process (entropy) sets in.

To Recidivist

Direct me to your source of information, because it is apparent you don't fully understand what you are trying to convey here.

reasonvemotion wrote:

because it is apparent you don't fully understand what you are trying to convey here.

Like what?

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Edit: I put this definition here in case you say what I think you're going to say (ie, it's to help you).

Quote :

entropy
[en-truh-pee]
noun

1. Thermodynamics .a. (on a macroscopic scale) a function of thermodynamic variables, as temperature, pressure, or composition, that is a measure of the energy that is not available for work during a thermodynamic process. A closed system evolves toward a state of maximum entropy.

b. (in statistical mechanics) a measure of the randomness of the microscopic constituents of a thermodynamic system. Symbol: S

2. (in data transmission and information theory) a measure of the loss of information in a transmitted signal or message.

3. (in cosmology) a hypothetical tendency for the universe to attain a state of maximum homogeneity in which all matter is at a uniform temperature (heat death)

4. a doctrine of inevitable social decline and degeneration.

5. inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society.

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Thanks for thinking for me.

What I am interested in is your source of information, give me a link.