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Satyr
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PostSubject: Re: Abrahamism Sun May 06, 2018 8:00 am

reasonvemotion wrote:

You bring up some interesting points and yes looking at stats it reveals that more than 60 percent of all practicing Christians are women, yet it's gate keepers so to speak have been men.  By contrast, Muslim women and Muslim men show similar levels of religiousness on all measures of religious commitment.
Women are followers, and as followers they keep faith, preserve traditions.
Males are representations of God - masculine symbols of the one Male.

reasonvemotion wrote:
Is this not similar to your experiences of communication with your father?
 My father was a Socialist...and atheist.
He hated the church and priesthood, considering them liars who used superstition to exploit the masses.
He called the church a 'business'.

I am neither.

reasonvemotion wrote:
Who are these gods and what proof for their existence?
The gods are not a thing.
Pagans believed that their dead were spirits, and they prayed to them. Essentially they evoked their ancestors in themselves.
Genes being stored memories.
Prayer was meditation, triggering latent memories.  

Then gods became anthropomorphic representations of natural phenomena.
Thunder, for example, was a god.
Rivers became gods - mountains, volcanoes, the sun as the giver of energies and so on.
Then more complex phenomena like gravity, or light, or death.
They experienced their gods daily.
Zeus, for instance, was a representation of the electromagnetic force.
He is the 'father' of all because electromagnetism is in all.

The Abrahamic god is the negation of the experienced.
They perceived world and then imagined the opposite - inversion is negation.  
So, multiplicity, became a singularity; death became life; natural became supernatural, short for death; the real became illusion....

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PostSubject: Re: Abrahamism Wed May 09, 2018 11:22 am

Religion is a way of dealing with chaos.
It incorporates randomness within an ordered narrative, by converting it into metaphor.
Text is an ordered representation that integrates chaos in the form of parables, ambiguities and sometimes contradictions, justifying them with the term 'mysterious', or 'mystical', or 'occult, to seduce the ego with its implies participation in a select category/group.

Religion is a way of simplifying the accumulated knowledge/experiences, and their concentration into a few principles of wisdom, and a patterns within the data - understanding.
This passed on to the average mind the shared ideals of the group, in a form that offered a promise and a threat to discipline it to the group's interests.
Narratives were used to make the memorization of these principles easier, in a written tradition, and before the printing press.
They also presented the group's interests in an allegorical form, to circumvent the ego's reaction.

Religion is a way of comforting, and flattering the average and the mediocre.
It also fabricates irrational hope, calling it faith helping weaker spirit to cope with devastating, unforeseen, circumstances.
Religion raises the weak, and implies a lowering of the strong, to create the illusion of parity which is in direct conflict with the experienced world.
A way around this contradiction is to imply an underlying or overlaying more 'real' reality, offering the less creative mind a justification for what it desires.

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PostSubject: Re: Abrahamism Thu May 10, 2018 5:54 am

Satyr wrote:

Quote :
My father was a Socialist...and atheist.
He hated the church and priest, considering them liars who used superstition to exploit the masses.
He called the church a business.

I am neither.

It really is up to the individual to find the truth themselves and not rely on a priest or a church to guide them, if a person does, they run the risk of being exploited.

If you are neither, but believe in dead spirits, can you be considered a Pagan?
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PostSubject: Re: Abrahamism Thu May 10, 2018 5:58 am

Quote :
reasonvemotion wrote:
Who are these gods and what proof for their existence?

Impulso Oscuro wrote:
Each Pagan god, refers to some sensual phenomena, do they not?

I must admit ignorance on this, I am still reading about them.

Perhaps you could enlighten me?
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PostSubject: Re: Abrahamism Thu May 10, 2018 6:35 am

reasonvemotion wrote:
 
If you are neither, but believe in dead spirits, can you be considered a Pagan?
Did you read what I said about how they worshipped their dead?
I do not believe in spirits the way you understand the word.

Spirit = sum of past - The sum of events (interactions) that participated in an individual's presence.
Soul = individual's past - birth to death.

The idea of soul outliving the body is one alluding to an individual's memory, persisting within the tribe long after his death.
Spirit refers to the personality of a people evolved within a specific environment and shaped by a common history. An allusion to genetics.  

These memories are known, lucid, conscious, and/or unknown, hidden, unconscious.
Therefore Know Thyself is a command to explore your past through your presence.
It's an urging to meditate - to remain honest in your quest, persistent and so on.  
to know self is to consciously link with a forgotten past - a remembering, an un-covering = un-forgetting (aletheia).

This is what I wrote:
Quote :
Pagans believed that their dead were spirits, and they prayed to them. Essentially they evoked their ancestors in themselves.
Genes being stored memories.
Prayer was meditation, triggering latent memories
You did not understand the meaning of the words I wrote. Perhaps you are hasty and jump to conclusions.
I'll unpack it for you.
The layman had to, and still have to believe in 'spirits' in the literal sense - superstition.
See my previous [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
Wise men knew that worshipping their dead was a way of worshipping, affirming, themselves.
Their ancestors were them. Their dead lived as them, through them.  
What did I say about past and how it is never gone - appearance is the past made present.
Studying your presence is a study of your past. The dead are never gone....they live in memory....having passed themselves onto the next generation in the form of DNA.

When parents die they leave a part of themselves in the child - this is their 'spirit' - sum of memories we call DNA.
So praying to spirits is a form of meditation - triggering, in self, memories.
The parent is alive through the child. His/Her spirit lives in the child, we can, metaphorically, say.
The parent's DNA memories are part of the child.

Pagans did not believe in spirits?
They were the quintessential idolaters. They believed idols of gods embodied the 'spirit' of the deity.
A war was fought to decide if Christians would do the same - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].
They did and do worship idols...having adopted the pagan practices and many of their rituals.
Christians believe in miraculous powers in sacred iconography, bones of saints, and so on.
Saints were their version of the pantheon.
Because Christianity is a mix of Hellenism and Judaism....where Hellenism is corrupted by Judaism - transformed into Judaism for Europeans.
Cross-contamination occurred when Judaism came in contact with paganism via the Greeks, later replaced by the Romans.

Why did judaism dominate Paganism?
Because of the masses of mediocrity, that were becoming part of the Empire's urban environment - slaves, poor, conquered peoples that had lost their heritage, their lands, their past, the ill who needed confronting and hope in a miraculous healing etc.
All desperate for relief from their own circumstances.
Judaism offered that superstition of overturning - cultivated after centuries of prosecution and adopted strategies of parasitism - victim psychology was a powerful aphrodisiac for the increasing numbers of lost and desperate 'souls' - having detached from their 'spirit'.
But Judaism itself denied this 'salvation' to other tribes, practicing a form of spiritual elitism. They were the 'chosen', you see.
Jesus became the Jew who offered Judaism to all the tribes - infected by Hellenic cosmopolitanism.
Ergo he's a bridge, a synthesis of Rome-Judea - he being a bastard child of a Jewish mother and Roman father....according to the Torah.

There are other theories about the nature of Jesus the historical figure.
Saul is the one who invented our modern understanding of the character names Christ.  

Jewish hatred for life and nature was passed onto Christianity in the form of death worship and rejection of natural identifiers.
The Jews had stolen/taken this from the ancient Egyptians; modifying it for their own spiritual needs - coping mechanisms.
The Jews, in turn, splintered into three forms: Orthodox, Cultural, Political.  

Pagan gods were the worship of nature, in anthropomorphic form.
As always, the laymen, the mediocre minds believed in their symbolism literally....whereas the wise men knew they were useful metaphors.

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PostSubject: Re: Abrahamism Thu May 10, 2018 10:14 pm

Exposing the Jewish Religion: What Jews Actually Believe About Jesus

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PostSubject: Re: Abrahamism Thu May 10, 2018 10:27 pm

Satyr wrote:

Quote :
I do not believe in spirits the way you understand the word.

What, do you believe, is my understanding of the word?
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PostSubject: Re: Abrahamism Fri May 11, 2018 5:56 am

That it refers to something immortal, eternal, and is neither mind nor body.
That it passes on, after death.

Michael, Jones wrote:
In 1204, Moses Maimonides, champion of Jewish scholasticism, died without establishing a coherent relationship between faith and reason of the sort that Aquinas would bequeath to Christendom. "Maimonides's failure to achieve a socially approved synthesis of science and Halakic Judaism" meant the rise of irrationalism and the occult in Jewish thought. As a result, "the orthodox rabbis" never attempted another synthesis of faith and reason, turning instead "to the soft
theosophy of the Cabala.
''
That turning to irrational occultism was most pronounced in southern France, known as Judaea Secunda, the area where Albigensianism took root. More than one Jewish historian traces Albigensianism to Jewish influence. "Some of the Cathari of Leon," we are told, "used to circumcise themselves, so that they might propagate heresy as 'Jews.'" "If the truth were known," says Lewis Browne, "probably it would be found that the learned Jews in Provence were in large part responsible for this free-thinking sect. The doctrines that the Jews had been spreading throughout the land for years could not but have helped to undermine the Church's power." Another modern Jewish writer goes further, considering it "indubitable" that the heretical doctrines of Southern France "were largely the result of friendly intercourse between Christians and Jews.

....Innocent's animus toward the Jews was, as we have seen, not motivated by anti-Semitism but instead by Jewish behavior, specifically, usury, insolence, blasphemy,
and support for heretical sects subverting the social, moral and political order. Innocent III and subsequent popes reevaluated their understanding of who and what the Jews were, gradually replacing the idea of them as blind and carnal with a new understanding of them as revolutionaries threatening the social and political order of Christendom. "The Cathars," one historian has noted, "were hardly as harmless as Graetz portrays them." The people Graetz portrays as "the truly God-fearing and moral Christians" regarded "a pregnant woman as possessed by a devil, and, if she died in childbirth, certain to go to Hell." The Cathars were a secret society; they were, Umberto Eco points out in Foucault's Pendulum, the predecessors of the Freemasons, a group which "would resort to every subterfuge and hypocrisy to conceal their true beliefs." Their refusal to take oaths undermined feudal society as much as their attitude toward sexuality threatened to depopulate it. Perversion was, in their eyes, preferable to marriage. And their fast unto death, the endura, "cost more lives than the Inquisition ever did."'

...Unlike Graetz, who turns the Jews into cynical manipulators of the Albigensians, Cantor claims the Jews succumbed to the Jewish version of the same error, namely, Cabala. "The Jewish community of Provence was the place where the Cabala started." Vehemently rejecting Maimonides' attempts at rationalism, the rabbis of Provence succumbed to a "pastiche of mysticism, demonology, and astrology that came eventually to be called the Cabala." The Zohar, the definitive cabalistic text, would not be written for another Century, "but its origins lie in Provence in the early 13th Century, precisely at the same time as the flourishing of the Catharist heresy."! Citing Gershom Scholem, Cantor claims "Cabala was a late continuation or revival of ancient Jewish Gnosticism." Gnosticism was "hermetic among the Jews" as it was in Freemasonry, the English Protestant appropriation of Cabala, "but blatantly separatist among the Christians .... it surfaced at the same time and in the same place, southern France, among both Christians and Jews. In the case of the Christians it takes the form of Catharism; among the Jews, of Cabalism."!! When Gnosticism first appeared in the ancient world, "the Gnostic community was the greatest internal threat that Christianity faced in the first two centuries of its existence.'~32 It was no less a threat in the 13th Century.

...The discovery of the Talmud changed the status of the Jews. In addition to "displaying no shame for their guilt nor reverence for the honor of the Christian
faith," the Talmud's blasphemies indicated the Jews had equal contempt for "the Law of Moses and the prophets" which the Christians thought they honored.'
Instead of following God's word in the Torah, the Jews "follow some tradition of their elders," giving it priority over the word of God.' The Talmud asserts rabbis are superior to the biblical prophets and that the Jews must obey them even to the absurd point of abrogating Mosaic Law. As a result the Jews prevent their children from studying the Bible, by placing the Talmud at the center of their educational curriculum.

...The Rabbis would have done better to emulate Maimonides, but" drugged ... into comfort with the narcotic of the Cabala, an otherworldly withdrawal into astrology
and demonology,
considered fit only for those who had mastered traditional Talmudic learning" they were no match for those trained by the Dominicans/SO
Many Jews took "the terrible deterioration of the status and security of the Jews" as "a sign of the coming of the Messiah," something one historian calls, "a characteristic figment of the Jewish mind .... In the Jewish context, it is the syndrome of waiting quietly for the holocaust. Thus the Orthodox rabbinate failed to exercise leadership on behalf of the Jews in the 13th Century Ashkenaz as was again the case in 20th Century Poland.'"

...The supernatural reaction to the threat of Jewish subversion was based on charity, which is to say, bringing those in darkness to the light of truth, which is
another way of describing conversion. The point of Martini's Pugio Fidei was the conversion of the Moors and the Jews, especially the latter, because they "constitute
the worst enemy of the Church, and ... converting them outweighs even that of the Christian mission to the Muslims." As we have seen, Judaism, according
to the new Catholic insight, was not a religion; it was a revolutionary ideology. In espousing the Talmud, the Jews deprived themselves of any correct understanding
of the Bible; their allegiance, according to Martini, lies with the Antichrist. As a result, "the redeemer whom they now expect at the end of the Roman Empire is really the Antichrist.''>ll

...Trying to make sense of the wave of conversions that swept Spain in 1390, Cantor describes medieval Judaism succumbing to its own internal contradictions. Its great weakness was "its finite, static quality:"'3 The Jews had rejected reason when they rejected Maimonides; as a result Judaism's "only innovative wing was in hazardous theosophic irrationalism,"" which "could not offer a durable response to persecution and discomfort or a comprehensive social theory .... ·5
But those "sephardic Jewish intellectuals who, after 1390, for whatever initial motive, proceeded to cross over into Christianity, found in Latin Christian culture a much more complex and vibrant culture that they eagerly embraced:,,·6 The sephardic elite who abandoned Maimonides and succumbed to the mumbo-jumbo of the Cabala descended into the Gnostic dualism the Church had defeated when it defeated the Albigensians. The descent into astrology, magic, and demonology would culminate when Cabala brought forth the false Messiah Shabbetai Zevi, 300 years later.
''

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PostSubject: Re: Abrahamism Fri May 11, 2018 7:20 am

The memetic conflict between 'mother' Judaism and 'daughter' Christianity follows the same processes as do the genetic counterparts.
Sons have to overcome their fathers, and daughters have to overcome their mothers.
The relationship with Islam is that of 'mother' and a young, unruly 'son', who is both tied to his mother, as a representation of the ideal female, and also is driven to antagonize her, as a way of becoming a man, when no father is present.
Judaism is the single mother, who was impregnated by multiple suitors... and bore two well-known offspring.
One born by a Greek, and so we have the symbolism of Jesus as the bastard son of a Jewish whore and a Roman soldier.
Judaism sees itself reflected in Mary's looseness, and admonishes itself for fornicating (intercourse) with pagans.
In the case of the ‘male offspring’ Islam, the father is dead. The son has no father figure and so turns to the mother to fill in for what is missing, in a love/hate relationship. He resents her for his father's absence, as often happens with single mothers. It is common for such ‘boys’ to hyper-inflate their masculinity, because they have no real representation to emulate.
With Christianity the dynamic is slightly different. Daughters admire their daddies, so Christianity wants to belong to Hellenism, but her mother's presence reminds her of her inheritance, and so there's a conflict where daughter wants to assert herself to her mother, and hates herself for being just like her.
There’s also to issue of identity. Hellenism passes on identity from father to child; Judaism passes on identity from mother to child. Christianity is left with a double identity. Jesus is male trying to associate Christianity’s preference for Hellenism – the daughter wants to replace her father, but being female she must give birth to a male son – Jesus is this symbolic rebirth as a ‘male’ representative of the feminine Church. He becomes the missing father-figure to be emulated by all Christian males.
The father becomes the idolized absence, and the mother the mundane present.
To put it in platonic psyche contexts... the mind (theory) of Christianity wants to be closer to her father Hellas, but her body (church) remains Jewish.
This is an interesting dynamic if you consider the fact that Hellenism is nature worshipping, physical, and Judaism is nature hating... one is meme born and attached to genes, and the other is gene attempting to be re-born of a detached from world inverting meme. Zionism is this attempt to convert the noetic meme of Judaism, into the lost tribal gene.
Christianity idolizes in Hellenism what it denies in herself – corporeality, physicality, nature. The myth of Jesus was an attempt to deal with this contradiction. The narrative uses resurrection, after death, as the point of overturning – inverting.
The real Jesus dies and is reborn as pure idea = god, divine... pure detached from phenomena, noetic construct – abstraction. This is considered a 'redemption', not a rejection, of Hellenic physicality, and pagan naturalism.
The past (nature) is reborn cleansed (baptized) as pure idea (spirit).
This refers to the mind/nervous system/body triad.
Body is renamed, reborn, in the nervous system, into pure symbol/word, existing in mind. Body converted into idea(l) = gene converted to pure meme.
The idea can live forever... as long as there are minds to hold it as true – it outlives the body.
Christianity returns to her mother Judaism, through her father Hellenism, which she redeems by baptizing him (cleansing) and renaming him (purification, transmutation).
The father's 'sins' are redeemed, meaning they are forgotten. These 'sins' are his naturalism, his pagan nature worshipping, and his manly physicality. What are washed away are phenomena, the apparent. Hellenism is converted to idealism, ideology, pure noumenon, and remains so to this day, among some circles.
Hellenism becomes theory, for his daughter Christianity, having forgotten its connection to world. Like all the dead, their memory is forgiving, purifying - we recall only the good about the one who has died - a dead father becomes to his children, especially his daughter, an idol.
We see this reflected in how Moderns think of Hellenism and anyone who reconnects them to this lost tradition – they idolize the messenger who recalls the dead father for them; he becomes a representation of him in the present; an icon reminding them of their dead ancestry – past made present, made current, given more modern symbols. This is pronounced in the case of Nietzsche. He becomes the embodiment of an absent idolized Hellenism; a modern reincarnation of what moderns cannot relate to because they've never experienced it – like a dead father is purified because the child never experienced him in reality. He lives in memory and memory can shape the father into any desirable form.
The purification converts him into a child (made innocent) or an emasculated male (feminized), beneath the yolk of the One Male God.
Jews use circumcision to represent this passing from one state to another.

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PostSubject: Re: Abrahamism Thu May 17, 2018 12:04 pm

Slow decay of these new Dark Ages will return to the west to a state akin to the Middle Ages.
The differences will be due to technological advancements, and knowledge gained in the interim.

All is patterns and non-patterned energies (inter)acting, therefore history repeats - but slightly modified by the forces of randomness.
The shift will be slight, because we are talking of small differences relative to human lifespans.
We gauge historical time using human lifespans, and judge them to be greater than they are.
Relative to cosmological space/time spans, all of human history - codified, recorded past -  is but a insignificant fraction.
We then judge the effect of chaos to be slim, and appreciate human history as something, relatively stable in its predictability - repeating in near-perfect consistency.
Yet, we can also appreciate how small divergence can produce large effects, in time/space, only counteracted by a living organism's desire to retain order, producing the conflict man experiences as stress - need/suffering.

In short, this coming New Dark Age will be the same as the previous ones, but modified.
The same superstitions will return to the forefront, only changed by socioeconomic and cultural, effects - given new monikers, new symbols, new narratives, incorporating what has been gained in science and philosophy.
Corruption will integrate them into a new degradation.
The same psychologies will emerge from where they slept in times of superfluity and comfort.
The same parasites, vermin....the same diseases will be triggered from latency.  

We can study the rise and fall of Rome to begin predicting what states this Global empire will pass through.
A slow but relentless decline, until fragmentation and dissolution completes the process.
The parts will then be absorbed into emerging new unities, or settle, for a brief period, as independent, but weak, entities.
Technology will reshape plagues -  physical diseases and mental diseases will flourish and spread.
It has already begun, and I've tried to describe some of the many strains - tracing the pathogen back to a naturally emerging byproduct of self-consciousness awakening to its own consciousness.
Consciousness is the experience of Flux, and is experienced as need/suffering - the ordering organism resisting change, or the challenge of constant (inter)activity demanding attention, neccasitating a response.
'Awakening', becoming conscious of this state, is the trauma that becomes nihilism - the meme/gene contradiction, siding with the meme to contradict the experienced, the physical; distress of mind perceiving itself, as mind/body, relative to other.
In the past this condition, still unknown and misunderstood, sought refuge and expression in what came to be known as Abrahamic spirituality.
Previous superstitions, also used to cope, were absorbed and given form, symbols, through these new advanced cults.

We've 'progressed' since then.
Abrahamism has been discredited, and exposed, necessitating a repackaging of the same, this time absorbing the ideologies and insights that brought it down - furbishing and upgrading of the same.
We re currently in the state of reinventing what has worked in the past.  
Marxism was also a repackaging of Abrahamism.
We will witness, in our age, the emergence of a new Christianity, or neo-Marxism - only it will not be called so, and it will go to great efforts to hide its pedigree.
The masses will flock to it, themselves belonging to the same types that fell for the comforting leis of Abrahamism and Marxism...  
Human nature has changes less than human environments and technologies. The same psychological weaknesses are present today, as they were thousands of years ago.; dressed-up and renamed they are only different in expression, not in essence.
The same anxieties, producing the same reactions, leading to the same outcomes.

This historical storm will not be stopped. Only a fool would stand in its way. It has built-up over the years, like storms do over warm oceans.
Large bodies of water, agitating the atmosphere, inundating it with humidity, that begins to spiral, and grow into a hurricane.
Water rises, on hot air-streams, and is cooled by external space, that has no interest in the turmoil of the world it encompasses.  
Heat meets cold space/time, and falls...in tidal waves of tears, blood, and sweat.
Cities are torn asunder, forests uprooted, geography rearranged. The earth is cleansed. What had been built on clouds is dashed to the ground'; what had been built on shifting sand, will crumble; what had lost its foundations will be destroyed....only the deepest roots have a hope of surviving....but not a certainty.  

Then peace returns, for a while...new seedlings burst from the soil, and the process repeats.      
Those who survive will stand in the sunlight....lost, standing on what has been, once more, buried....calling to be rediscovered, revealed, uncovered; added to, in preparation for the next storm.

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