This belongs in the feminism thread, or elsewhere, especially after looking up this "Ray Rice"...
_________________ And here we always meet, at the station of our heart / Looking at each other as if we were in a dream /Seeing for the first time different eyes so supreme / That bright flames burst into vision, keeping us apart.
Henry Quirk
Gender : Posts : 335 Join date : 2014-06-03 Age : 61 Location : 'here'
I get it now...the 'herd' mention had me flummoxed.
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"I actually don't think she's a plain gold digger."
I don't either (though, I'm thinkin' that's her primary motivation) simply cuz agendas are never pure but, instead, are always an amalgam (love mixed with opportunism mixed with etc.).
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Burn,
"This belongs in the feminism thread, or elsewhere..."
I disagree but -- as this is her thread -- Lyssa should make the call.
In my view, the way violence is handled in this society is one of the main elements of feminization and overall deterioration of the spirit. No controlled honest way to settle such things. Just tactics of suppression and kicking the can down the road by drowning the population in distractions.
Blacks parents are known for hitting their children more often on average than parents of other races. Then as an athlete tries to make and NFL team, aggression is what makes him stand out in training camp, and reflexes makes him stand out during the game.
This so called "scandal" reminds me of the "scandal" that the NBA likely manufactured last spring to create ratings. The owner of the LA Clippers was crucified for innocuous remarks made in private that were claimed to be offensive towards blacks. Then in this later scandal we have a black NFL player basically being crucified for being a black NFL player, showing how little concern the American media actually has for blacks.
What these two "scandals" have in common is feminization. In the first, the "race issue" aside, we had a rich man about 80, being less than completely complacent to the wishes of his much younger trophy girlfriend, trying to tell her who she can associate with at the Clipper games. The outcome was that his ex-wife made out like a bandit on the forceful sell of his team. Then in the latter "scandal", a black athlete failed to make the agonizing effort to suppress his instincts when regarding women.
It seems for an athlete such as Rice to be able to restrain himself during an onslaught such as he experienced he would need to have required a sense of blind worship and submission towards women, a schizophrenia in a sense, where his aggressive instinct is subverted by his worship of women. Basically, he must be feminized everywhere but on the field.
Henry Quirk
Gender : Posts : 335 Join date : 2014-06-03 Age : 61 Location : 'here'
"It seems for an athlete such as Rice to be able to restrain himself during an onslaught such as he experienced he would need to have required a sense of blind worship and submission towards women..."
Possible but certainly not the only option.
Equally possible: pragmatically exercising self-control so as to minimize potential jail time.
That is: 'I can't just let this person spit on and slap me, and she won't friggin' stop, so, I can beat her face in, or, I can simply stop her...in the first case, I'll probably get locked up for a loooong time...in the second, I might actually skate'.
Despite his obvious shortcomings: it’s possible Mr. Rice simply self-controlled out of self interest, not domestication.
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"drowning the population in distractions"
Innumerable distractions: makin' folks think they 'need' 'this' or 'that' (when what they actually 'need' is less 'this' or 'that')...multiple albatrosses round necks...mill stones and leg irons.
Last edited by Henry Quirk on Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : corrected word order)
Just speaking to an observation of a phenomenon, when men are asked to put in the kind of training that NFL players are, then basically pressured to otherwise live a life that would be considered normal for any given guy in modern society, such incidents are inevitable. It would be equally absurd to harshly train a pit bull, then when not in training or fighting have him live in the same yard as an aggressive, but untested smaller dog, not bred for fighting.
Henry Quirk
Gender : Posts : 335 Join date : 2014-06-03 Age : 61 Location : 'here'
I think a disparity between 'training' and 'expectations' has little to do with it.
Consider...
Young folks, with no meaningful life experience, who have talent (in sports, in the 'arts', etc.) are given shitloads of money, are told (at least in the public sphere) they can do no wrong, are idolized by kids and adults alike.
Thrust into the role of icons, egos inflated to the point of bursting, is it surprising these ill-formed or unformed young folks act badly from time to time?
The solution: pay them less, applaud them less; make them understand that excelling at a sport, in acting, in 'whatever', while a fine thing, is really a minor thing.
Make them understand their place (humility).
Of course, before that reducing, that diminishment, can happen, the adoring (paying) public needs to see these young stars in a reduced, diminished, way.
Since most folks, most of the time, are as crazy as shithouse mice (wholly unable to hold a proper perspective about any-one or -thing): I have no expectations of the demise of 'celebrity' (or the bad behavior extending out from celebrity).
Egos running rampant in society is responsible for people being loose with their tongues, but it seems that it's not as much the case with violence. Yes, we do have people whose egos have been allowed to expand unchecked by an adoring public, that are violent in public, Russell Crow comes to mind, but I doubt it has much to do with 'domestic' violence. Domestic violence is of course common among people, male or female, but those men not in a professional in high pressure violent sport, at least have the option of dulling their reflexes so much that should they be assaulted, they would be able to choke down the rage before acting on it.
But, it's interesting that you emphasize ego as a contributor. What I was suggesting earlier is actually related to ego, but it goes far beyond the public simply giving those such as Rice less of a God like status. Those such as Rice would need to worship them instead. But, since one such as Rice is unlikely to get assaulted by a man, most men still not being so naïve, he need only worship women, which is in line with the expanding societal idea that men should be subservient to women.
Henry Quirk
Gender : Posts : 335 Join date : 2014-06-03 Age : 61 Location : 'here'
In my experience, the stats about domestic violence are misleading (often based in arrests, not convictions). My gut tells me there isn't nearly as much domestic violence as certain folks and groups (with *agendas) would have any of us believe.
The idea of domestic violence (like rape) is a tool (not sayin' women don't get the shit kicked out of them or raped...am sayin' that not nearly as many women are whupped up on or raped as -- again -- certain folks and groups (with *agendas) would have any of us believe).
As for Rice (and other star performers who act badly): again, I think it has a helluva lot more to do with an unjustified (and poorly handled) elevation of the performer than a schism between 'job' versus 'societal norms'.
*like those who promote the idea that (as you say) "men should be subservient to women"
Did you notice that these females were westernized?
It is your business is you wish to dissuade western men from going over to the east to find women, but cultural forces will close that door for ya, in time.
For now the are still places a western man can find a good woman. My friend, Peter, did. Having faces a variety of western, modern, bitches, we found a Thai girl and married her a few months ago. He told me that on his trip over there he found many western men roaming the streets with pretty Thai girls next tot hem. He also met a few here, who married Thai girls.
I think western "powerful," "independent," women, who think they intimidate men, because the system protects them, should take notice. Clock is ticking. Of course, for women, there's always the option of fucking a chimpanzee, of the human variety. They will bang anything. I work with a few. Each one has 2-3 children with 2-3 different women.
What's that Ukrainian proverb: share a tent with gypsies, you wake up in a field of shit. Ah, yes, you hang around shit, you smell like shit.
Henry Quirk
Gender : Posts : 335 Join date : 2014-06-03 Age : 61 Location : 'here'
In finding the truth of these matters there are statistics and there are theories as to how and why some statistics are skewed. Then as Phoneutria alludes, there's also just experience to tell one these things. Just from keeping my ears open in public I know both that domestic violence is common and that men are often falsely accused of it.
Anfang
Gender : Posts : 3989 Join date : 2013-01-23 Age : 40 Location : Castra Alpine Grug
If the woman is defending her man or going back to him then it's very, very likely that domestic violence is occurring - him being the perpetrator. If she is getting a good settlement, in other words, she was well prepared for an eventual trial then it's quite likely that the allegation are either false or she was very much instigating the violence herself.
The innocent never look as innocent as the ones who try to look innocent.
Henry Quirk
Gender : Posts : 335 Join date : 2014-06-03 Age : 61 Location : 'here'
Over the past decade I've spent a god-awful amount of time in the hard-copy and virtual archives of ten parish courthouses (and in the company of defenders, prosecutors, accused, and accusers).
A goodly chunk of my criminal research involves claims of child abuse (sexual and non) and 'domestic violence/rape'.
Over a decade: I've looked at the end results of, or occasionally have participated (peripherally) in, a hundred-plus (child abuse and 'domestic violence/rape') investigations.
A great many of these claims (woman claims man beat her; woman claims man beat child; woman claims man raped her; woman claims man raped child) turn out to be utter crap...lies that are recanted, or, proven false.
Not saying' 'most'; am sayin' 'a great many'.
Many of the stats foisted up (to illustrate the numbers of women and children abused) are based on arrests, not convictions and so -- in my experience -- are suspect.
So -- yeah -- there are a great many claims of domestic violence.
If the woman is defending her man or going back to him then it's very, very likely that domestic violence is occurring - him being the perpetrator. If she is getting a good settlement, in other words, she was well prepared for an eventual trial then it's quite likely that the allegation are either false or she was very much instigating the violence herself.
The innocent never look as innocent as the ones who try to look innocent.
Yes, while of course there are exceptions, it makes sense that generally women who had the knowledge and resources to completely fuck over their husband in a divorce, also would have long had the knowledge and resources to leave him at the first sign of abuse.
"...it gives an interesting window into the way an abuser can walk around..."
Floyd Mayweather is no role-model, but what's the point of the legal system, if after you've served your time, you can be labeled an "abuser" by one the largest news networks in the world (with the female interviewer's condescending eyes and heavily moralizing tone(which seems very intentional by CNN to provoke a reaction)... The Scarlett letter syndrome... that in reality isn't even that effective (at least now... the athletes continue to make money)...It's like, abuse is bad but the interviewer's image( a woman intentionally chosen to speak), isn't an objective one but one that we should see as inherently righteous, the righteous agenda of ending abuse(even if the tactics are not objective)... So the playing off of moral feelings of victim-hood that "we can all relate to", spoken through a woman(whose "voice" regarding the victim should never doubted)...all with a condescending tone( which, no matter the subject, always produces antagonism in males)...
_________________ And here we always meet, at the station of our heart / Looking at each other as if we were in a dream /Seeing for the first time different eyes so supreme / That bright flames burst into vision, keeping us apart.
Henry Quirk
Gender : Posts : 335 Join date : 2014-06-03 Age : 61 Location : 'here'
Through media, and first and second hand accounts. It's possible that all that could have been somewhat misleading. Maybe you're right, that it's not common.
"...it gives an interesting window into the way an abuser can walk around..."
Floyd Mayweather is no role-model, but what's the point of the legal system, if after you've served your time, you can be labeled an "abuser" by one the largest news networks in the world (with the female interviewer's condescending eyes and heavily moralizing tone(which seems very intentional by CNN to provoke a reaction)... The Scarlett letter syndrome... that in reality isn't even that effective (at least now... the athletes continue to make money)...It's like, abuse is bad but the interviewer's image( a woman intentionally chosen to speak), isn't an objective one but one that we should see as inherently righteous, the righteous agenda of ending abuse(even if the tactics are not objective)... So the playing off of moral feelings of victim-hood that "we can all relate to", spoken through a woman(whose "voice" regarding the victim should never doubted)...all with a condescending tone( which, no matter the subject, always produces antagonism in males)...
While trying to increase the public stigma against domestic violence, the women doing the interview made it it very clear that it's likely that the majority of American men have little if any concern for it as a social issue. She might think she's shaming men into not paying for the fight and making people reflect more upon their motives in general, but what's more likely is that she's shaming the hypocrites, who would both pay for the fight and pretend to be indignant over the video of Rice, to stop even bothering to act as if they care.
Henry Quirk
Gender : Posts : 335 Join date : 2014-06-03 Age : 61 Location : 'here'
