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PostSubject: Elitism, self-interest, self-respect, dispositions, and altruism. Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:24 am

To have self-respect you must be in the elite. The elite are the most intelligent. You may only respect the elite, but you may use them as well as others for you own self-interest.

Altruism is always self-interest at heart. You may build someone up so that they may in turn benefit you. The stupid and the average may be built up so that they can fool themselves into acts of gratitude, or for any other arbitrary purpose. The most intelligent you must build up so that you may pursue ideas in better company.

Sadly, we often have dispositions that come from prior weakness in ourselves. We often hate those who have hated us and wish to help those who are hated by the same kind. If you must, take joy in the failings of those who have hated you and in helping those who have been hurt by them. Both joys may be meaningless, but are natural.
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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:14 am

POLITEIA is a sub-forum reserved for forum business: queries, reprimands, critiques, recommendations etc.

There are many kinds of elites.
My, personal definition of it is in regards to intelligence, therefore saying that the elite are intelligent, or the "most intelligent" is overkill. It implies that you are using a different definition of what elite is, and that this just happens to also be of the "most intelligent."

But, again for me, intelligence is not enough, because it can be corrupted, warped by emotion, by mental disease, by memetic infections.
Intelligence must be clear of other considerations except the perception and recognition of reality.
It must be courageous, be accompanied by integrity, honesty, wisdom.

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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:03 am

Here's the thing:
Everyone is an elitist, because all place themselves and their own kind above all others.
All consider their ideals, principles, an opinions superior.
All have their own standard of measuring and determining value, which they consider above all others.

Some have acquired - been given - a method of making this inconspicuous because it contradicts their life-hating, world-denouncing world views.
To remain loyal to their anti-realism, they must hide their egotism and selfishness with indirectness and hypocrisy.
If they don't they contradict their own principles, which depend on delusion, hyperbole and lying to one's self, and if they wish to avoid the feeling of shame associated with this conflict between the real and the ideal, they must direct their own selfish motives through an abstracting otherness.

This can be anything:
God, Church, Nation, Tribe, Ideology, Morality, Money, anything which is vague and a human construct which offers the benefit of turning the nihilism, self-hatred, insecurity, weakness, cowardice, meekness, inferiority, into an advantage.

This is the feminine tactic of Will to Power, Will to Life, Will towards the Absolute (whatever word is used to describe it) via an Other.
Inclusion, participation, projected self/ego, selfishness, fear, finding power via an other, or behind some otherness.

Who is more elitist than the Jew who claims to be the chosen to suffer on behalf of a Deity...an absolute monarch?
In the desire to hide his egotistical. Elitist tracks, the Jewish dogma makes this privileged position a consequence of meekness.
They were chosen, the story goes, because no other tribe wanted the part.

Who is more elitist than a christian who not only claims that he is the minion of the king of kings, but that he deserves eternal life, and that it is his irrationality, his cowardice, his meekness, which makes him powerful through this Deity who demands nothing less than total submission?

Don't fool yourself, as many of these turds do, elitism, or ideological, mimetic, egotism, is part of the human condition. The many approaches taken, and the many methods and symbols this takes is determined by the particular mind-sets (re)action to reality.
For the life-hater, and world-denouncing, nihilist, the angle towards power goes through death, or assimilation, or surrender to the fates, or redirection through some idealized thingness.
Whatever it is, even humility and humiliation, that goal is self-aggrandizement, the sense of being rare, special, worth something.

In my mind, the only elitism worth anything is intelligence, as I've defined it.
Intelligence is the one attribute, or sum of traits, which sets us apart form all other organisms and, as you can see, helps us dominate those creatures that are bigger, faster, bolder, stronger, more durable, in possession of more acute senses etc.

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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:59 am

Satyr wrote:
It must be courageous, be accompanied by integrity, honesty, wisdom.

I agree that you must have wisdom to be in the elite. You would have to have self-respect before you could possibly obtain those other attributes; they don't concern me now anyway.

Excepting some small details, I agree with your second post. Maybe you implied this; you can be indirect and hypocritical to others and still be in the elite, so long as you aren't being fooled yourself. Those with the most intelligence would almost have to let themselves be fooled. It follows that you must have wisdom to maintain your self-respect.

I would have been happy to support the idea that we should keep the qualitative differences amongst us to ourselves as much as possible. The problem is that society has dealt to me the idea that I can't be better than anyone, while praising certain others for claims of superiority. That withstanding, if I was neck deep in the spoils of hedonism I would have shrugged it off with a smile. But, I've had few advantages. Until now, I've had only intellect without wisdom.
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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:39 am

First off, multiple user-names is a no-no around here.
It's called integrity.

Canterbury wrote:
Satyr wrote:
It must be courageous, be accompanied by integrity, honesty, wisdom.

I agree that you must have wisdom to be in the elite. You would have to have self-respect before you could possibly obtain those other attributes; they don't concern me now anyway.

Excepting some small details, I agree with your second post. Maybe you implied this; you can be indirect and hypocritical to others and still be in the elite, so long as you aren't being fooled yourself. Those with the most intelligence would almost have to let themselves be fooled. It follows that you must have wisdom to maintain your self-respect.

I would have been happy to support the idea that we should keep the qualitative differences amongst us to ourselves as much as possible. The problem is that society has dealt to me the idea that I can't be better than anyone, while praising certain others for claims of superiority. That withstanding, if I was neck deep in the spoils of hedonism I would have shrugged it off with a smile. But, I've had few advantages. Until now, I've had only intellect without wisdom.

I agree...but then is philosophy is to be discussed, must we retain the hypocrisies and masks we put on to 'get along' in our everyday life, or is this the only place where, if we are to remain true to the idea of 'love of wisdom', we should drop our masks and speak openly?

See, for me philosophy, sounding all pompous and shit, is about reality.
If you are going to attempt to be philosophical, then you cannot be sociable, or care about how likable you are, or how much hope and gratification what you say has.
I've said that what we call civility, politeness, civilization as a concept, is founded no lies and pretenses, but then is not philosophy about uncovering, analyzing, and understanding these leis and pretenses?

You can't be concerned about how others perceive you or might think of you, or how hurtful an idea is when and if you are interested in perceiving and understanding reality.
The world of men is not the world at large.
It is but a (re)action to it.

To gain an insight not the human condition, as (re)active, you must first perceive the real it is (re)acting to.

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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:55 pm

I said you can only respect the elite, as I defined them, I now believe you can respect the semi-elite who I will also define. They are those who live well; they have the material things they need and possibly much more. They have the right relations between family and community. They only need an average intelligence.

Those in the semi-elite can be divided into two categories; those with self-respect and those without. You can only respect those in the semi-elite who respect themselves. So there's no misunderstanding let me clarify that self-respect is about the beliefs that you say to yourself. What you say outloud is only relevant if it causes you to believe it.

There are three ways those in the semi-elite can fail to have self-respect. Some fail on all accounts.

They can fail to have the ability to maintain their status or not have family or friends to do this for them. It helps to have been the driving force for their own success, but if they were thrown into it they must have the wherewithal to maintain it.

They can have a misperception of their own responsibility for their success. If they were the driving force behind it they must admit this to themselves. If they weren't they must also admit it to themselves. A belief in God isn't a disqualifier for the semi-elite, but if they believe God is responsible for their success then it follows that they cannot have any self-respect. If they worked for it, then they are degrading their own efforts. If they didn't then they are pretending that they are graced by God. If a God graced success on people with mediocre drive, then that God will surely be doing so arbitrary.

They can suffer from liberalism. The self-deprecation is obvious if they believe they don't deserve what they have.

Satyr wrote:
I agree...but then is philosophy is to be discussed, must we retain the hypocrisies and masks we put on to 'get along' in our everyday life, or is this the only place where, if we are to remain true to the idea of 'love of wisdom', we should drop our masks and speak openly?
We must drop one of our masks.

Almost without exception you must tell lies to people you know in person. If you lie to much you may begin to believe them; a balance is necessary. If you aren't anonymous online then it is as if you are speaking in person. If you are anonymous that is already one guise, it is ridiculous to wear two.
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PostSubject: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:31 am

This forum has given me a new perspective on the common search for meaning and purpose that many people go through. I've read some of the discussions antagonistic to the blank slate. I don't recall anyone who believes it in its purest form. I think the real problem with it is the emphases certain people put on belief in oneself and of equality.

The following description of equality is one that many people really do believe in. There is the idea that everyone is equal in worth. It’s a statement that not only speaks to the idea of rights, but also to a more abstract type of innate value. This philosophy claims that all humans were born with an equal amount to offer or the ability to potentially deserve as much respect as anyone else. That idea has no logical bases, and it's unlikely any evidence supports it. The problem with the logic is that it is based on the fact that there is no species significantly related to humans. So its supporters only needs to ask how this idea of equality would hold up if there was such a species and they would be lead to the question of how removed or different that species would have to be before they would be less equal. Obviously the problem stems from religious philosophies such as Christianity which claim humans have a transcendental significance which other animals don't have. Furthermore, when it comes to secular ideology, the idea of inborn equality is just pure idiocy.

I doubt many really believe the cliché that belief in oneself is all that is essential for any degree of accomplishment. The cliché is obviously absurd; it's best thought of as a form of pushing the issue of innate equality. Basically the idea is that all are born with equal potential and in order to fulfill it they need little more than this ill-defined belief in oneself. It is certainly beneficial to help some people live up to their full potential, but the efforts described above are useless for anyone who has a potential that is truly higher than most others.

I'm not necessarily talking about the potential to obtain any standard form of success. For those who are proud of the success they have, and aren’t concerned with any further potential they have, then they will likely appreciate the idea that they could have obtained their success if they were born into less favorable circumstances. But, for those with much potential which they have yet to fulfill or who have much more they still would like to accomplish, to accept the idea that they were only born with the moderate potential that every other human supposedly was born with is defeating.

So if one was born with superior potential then they must believe that and be proud of it and all factors that are attributed to it. To have a defining purpose for moving forward in the world one must have a sense of where they came from. It cannot be Christianity’s origin story because it is ill founded. For a mythological belief to have any relevance in defining someone it has to be a part of a culture which they are immersed into. I have an idea of where and when there are/was societies with such cultures, but I'm not opposed to saying I'm mostly ignorant. But, here and now we're left with evolution. It is not shameful to have evolved from lower life forms; it may just as well be something to be proud of. The problem is that the liberal ideology makes it as if the eight billion people on Earth all have an equal amount to be prod of concerning there origins. It's ridiculous, only someone who has what could almost be called a posse of sycophants can maintain self-esteem while claiming equality to every other person on Earth, and even then that that self-esteem will be based on a contradiction.

If one is superior it is because of their origins, this website has people expressing that often. One may go by the best available research on the subject of racial origins to a certain extent, but bias in research is always a possibility. Where there's doubt it is best to simply side with the research that is most fitting to one's own self-esteem. The fact is some may not be able to find anything about their origins to be proud of, that is simply too bad for them:

One reading this post may be so used to the idea that any essay on sociology is either meant to be in the interest of society itself and/or equality. Neither interest is my concern. This essay which may provoke a discussion is only in my interest, as a way of clarifying ideas that may help myself, I'm not concerned with how it may affect others, though I believe being that this essay may help myself it logically follows that it may help others like myself.

What origins certain people may have to be proud of and why that is so is discussed in depth in this website. It is often done so in a way that can be seen as insulting to people who are unlike those making the claims, but people must understand that self-esteem and self-respect are necessary for survival. I'm not cruel, if someone very different than me has lived a very poor life and feels worthless, I will not strive to make claims of superiority directly to them. But, I have lived a very poor life mostly spent feeling worthless. That shouldn't be taken as an excuse for claiming superiority; I do that simply because I can. I'm just giving notice to anyone who may argue with me that they will likely have trouble winning in a debate on personal misery. If anyone who hasn't known Hell on Earth would say I'm being impolite I must tell them I don't give a Goddamn; stop fucking your own front porch first or however the saying goes.

So let’s discuss which race is superior and why. I'd appreciate relevant links from previous discussions and outside sources as well. Let's try to be rational and go with what available evidence is there, but my bias is strong, and why the Hell shouldn't it be? Let any fucking moron who's tried living an unbiased life answer that.
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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:27 am

Equality offers an emotional reward. The blank slate removes the possibility of genetic predisposition and inherent potential. This is rewarding, emotionally, to most, who find themselves intimidated by and resentful towards excellence.
If such excellence is forever denied them due to their very genes, this forces an unpleasant self re-evaluation.

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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:29 am

I have sympathy for those incapable of excellence, at least those who don't have the opportunity to wallow in self-delusion through sycophants and hedonism, but sometimes the battle for survival is won or lost before concrete actions. Its outcome may only be determined by self-perception. If we can all feel good about ourselves by making others feel the same, then so be it and let's turn shit into gold why we’re at it.

I realize that nothing I'm saying here is controversial to this website. I hope that people here can help me learn exactly where genetic superiority lies, why it is so, and how to affectively argue it. The problem is that the search feature here doesn't seem to work and the internet is a wasteland of people which obvious genetic inferiority grasping at straws in their own search for self-respect.
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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:16 am

Try:

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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:50 am

Quote :
If we can all feel good about ourselves by making others feel the same, then so be it and let's turn shit into gold why we’re at it.
I don't share your altruistic instinct. An artist shaping clay does not overlook the quality of the clay he uses.

Gold doesn't tarnish. Bury it and encrust it and cover it over, it still remains gold. It shines through on it's own merits and needs no shaper, no correction, no intervention, to show it's quality. It simply is.

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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:19 pm

My altruistic instinct was suppressed for survival by equating personal virtue with baseless selfishness, an idea antithetical to life. It is obvious now; an altruistic nature must be used discriminately, to uplift some without the over-appreciation and vindication of excrement.
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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:23 pm

As I said earlier, in order to look to look forward and seek to fulfill one's potential one must have a knowledge and respect of their origins. Evolution is the only option available. A mythology, based on evolutionary and other scientific evidence is very useful, even if it is only loosely based on such evidence. While subject to change or expansion, here is my working mythology for Northern Europeans.

Our ape-like ancestors were nomadic. They had very large territories which they needed to survive. Competition always had the habit of pushing the weaker to northern territories, where they became stronger over the years, only to return to the south and reclaim their ancestors' land. Those northern territories may not have been beyond Africa, but in the ice age climate cold weather extended farther south. In itself that was slow moving evolution, but occasionally a large population of nomadic tribes would get stranded north, perhaps through a geological barrier brought on by the Earth’s temperature shifting downwards. Over hundreds of years that population would shrink until all that remained of it were the most fit, specifically the most intelligent. When the Earth finally began to warm, the small remaining nomads would travel south to where their ancestors lived and conquer the regions.

This cycle repeated itself until humanity finally emerged from the ice's grasp and began the process of the conquest of the lands of their not quite human ancestors, then already living throughout much of the world. The Lascaux cave paintings reflect these first humans. The cycle was still being continued 20, 000 years ago. Those from the colder climates would emerge more intelligent and conquer many of the lands in the lower climates. The race reflected throughout the most of western world and the race reflected throughout most of the eastern and new worlds were born. They were among the races of the great early civilizations.

Perhaps less than 10, 000 years ago as a part of this evolutionary cycle there were several thousand Europeans stranded in far northern territories. These people unequal to none, perhaps superior to many. As with humanity's early ancestors their population dwindled quickly as the decades turned into centuries. Unlike their earliest ancestors they had already the basic human intelligence to survive ordinary cold climates, they needed something extra, something beyond what humanity had yet obtained. Those who would prove fit to survive had to show ability beyond perceptiveness and calculation, and beyond the intuitive spiritual nature that had long been a tool for making decisions of great importance to the nomadic peoples. Those few, in that frozen Hell, had to look deep into their depths and discover an aspect of humanity so subtle as to be almost undetectable by those lacking it. There is no term for this essence, call it only a heightened consciousness of themselves and their place in the world.

As time passed the climate warmed and from the far north one remaining culture of people no more than one hundred in number emerged. They had fierceness and cunning of their ancestors whom hundreds of years earlier had been first stuck in the icy wasteland and they had the indefinable quality for which those ancestors showed the first inkling and was fully developed during hundreds of subsequent years of existence in those near unfathomable conditions. Conditions contrasting between agonizing difficulties and quiet contemplation during the worst of that unrelenting winter.

Many of them stayed where they were, happy to soak in the cool atmosphere which ran through their blood and stay true to their northern ways. Others ventured south. They were likely the impetus behind some of the greater southern European cultures. Thousands of years later the Northerners began to travel in vast quantities to southern Europe. There they took advantage of the decadence in their ancestor’s once great cultures. This leads us to the first Millennium. Since then many Northerners have lost that indefinable essence. But, even today many still have the qualities inherited from those forged in that long winter.
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PostSubject: Ill-conceived goals among some racially biased websites. Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:31 am

From http://knowthyself.forumotion.net/t900-is-there-a-superior-race:

Lyssa wrote:
Roger Roots: 100 Facts for Differences Between Human Races
If the premise is that those descended from northern Europe are more adaptable to the modern world they created then overall the list makes a good argument. But, the state of the modern world is nothing to be proud of. The ability to conquer certainly is, but it's not the most redeeming feature of those descended from northern Europe. Those of us desended form northern Europe who are the most refined should be proud of what great cultures our ancestors made and our own potential to make a refined culture.

Technology is only one aspect of this ability to make refined culture and it is fortunate mostly only for purposes of defense lest people of other races had developed it before us. It's debatable as to what other degree value advanced technology has had. It seems undoubtable that the technology of the last hundred years has had no significantly redeeming feature other than defense.

I've been reading of many racial studies such as the one's cited in that list, the most significant aspect of them is not to prove the divergence in racial quality, but to show how narrow minded most modern studies are. I assume that the vast majority of modern racial studies contain liberal bias, but I have little doubt at all that the majority of studies cited in that list are biased. I understand the necessity to cite studies made when there was less liberalism among academics, but it seems obvious that those studies came from academics that had motive to show bias in the other direction.

I already take the difference in intelligence for granted, for evidence I only need to look to that which shows how colder climates shaped humanity's evolution. But, let's also consider simple observation, from one who lives and breathes among many races. Not speaking to social statistics and the accounts of others, only to direct personal experience, I can’t see this difference in intelligence. The reason may be that I have been subjected to an enormous number of white people who portray staggering levels of stupidity. One of a minority race has never left me gasping for breath trying to fathom the depths of the idiocy I've seen in certain white people.

I have little doubt that website is appealing to those who are intellectually inept as much as it is to the elite. I understand their goal and the goals of many other organizations like them. The want to preserve racial integrity and they want the US to become a country that is once again for the benefit of white people alone. The problem with the latter goal is they don't account for the vast stupidity that I spoke of. The white races averages aside, it surely consists of at least 75% who have no intellectual value. What those 75% want should be irrelevant to what those of us in the 25% want. Anyway, how could we find the idea of continuing to share a nation with them appealing? Maybe it would be better than the alternative, but certainly not something worth striving for.

The argument as to why we may want the lesser 75% is that they still have a high potential to produce elites, this goes back to the goal of preserving our racial integrity. But, one must think of it this way; much of what is wrong with liberalism is its misguided notions of improving the world for the future of humanity as a whole. That is exactly what they are attempting to do within their own perception of what constitutes improvement. The idea that racial integrity may be preserved for hundreds of years worldwide is appealing over the alternative, but is completely unnatural as a goal. It is only natural to worry about one’s own family line. So wouldn't it be far more pragmatic for people with this concern to stress values among their children, rather than to advocate the unrealistic notion that they could succeed at stemming the tide of racial integration?
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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:07 am

Canterbury wrote:
I can’t see this difference in intelligence. The reason may be that I have been subjected to an enormous number of white people who portray staggering levels of stupidity. One of a minority race has never left me gasping for breath trying to fathom the depths of the idiocy I've seen in certain white people.
There are a number of issues here. One is that you may be judging whites more harshly than other races because you are one of them. Another is that working class whites have grown accustom to others doing their thinking for them. This is particularly the case with America where ignorance of reality is considered a virtue. Consider also the structure of our society and especially the class system and how the division of labor has resulted in an intellectually stunted underclass.

Also, it has long been a strategy of ethnic minorities - especially Asians in Europe - to get revenge on the white working class for their racism and to compensate them for their feelings of inferiority by over achieving academically and thus looking down on their counterparts. It doesn't quite work with blacks, of course, as they don't have the intelligence in the first place so their only strategy is to constantly play the race card.

My advice to you as you live in a multiracial environment is to shake the hand of a negro and feel the thick, leathery skin, and take it from there. Nothing is better than personal experience in forming a complete world view and one should approach other races as a zoologist approaches new species to be studied and classified with a mindset divorced from subjective notions of superiority/inferiority focusing entirely on the physical phenomena in front of him (also read Rushton).
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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:26 am

Maybe I just need to look closer. But, I'm not one to go from self-righteously admonishing people who make racist comments about others in my presence, to simply making broad assumptions about races. I don't even wish to place myself in the 25% I spoke of. Superficially successful people of any race are to be respected, just as our earliest ancestors would have been fools to disrespect neighboring tribes who were cohesive and well fed. But, the true elite, the one percent of people have the most superior intellect and self-awareness are the only group I care to be a part of.

Maybe on some level I expect more from white people, but I doubt that. What those ancestors of ours who came out of the frozen north more advanced than humanity had ever yet seen many thousand years ago have given to there more direct descendents is only a probability of extreme superiority. The last 2000 plus years have not been kind to theirs, nor perhaps anyone else’s, capacity to sustain a systematicly quality blood line. If those descended from the cold of early Europe have something which most races don't it is a quality that is not to be taken for granted evolutionarily speaking. They came out of the cold with unheard of genetic qualities which could have easily become dormant in most after centuries of neglect.

To track the life of a gene over the last thousands of years may itself have been an epic story of survival. It is nothing for those without it to appreciate and it can only be a burden upon those who have it, but we must be proud of it nonetheless, and rise to the challenges these uncommon virtuous impose upon us. We only must do that because of the simple fact that they evolved in a state of extreme hardship, where life wasn't only hard and short like all early humans', but was filled with the constant need to transcend the situation, to survive it using uncompromising intellect almost bending the unforgiving environment to their will. Those of us with that trait must either accept it and find a challenge if one isn't presented or die from nothing necessarily more dramatic than boredom.
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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:10 pm

Respect is an anxiety based practice.
What anxiety controls you, Canterbury, making you want to respect whatever race you want to respect?

Is saying that my dog is not as smart as I am, a disrespectful thing?
Can I not treat my dog, as I would want to be treated myself, and still think of it as a dumber type of life-form?

For me all types are about potentials, probabilities, not absolutes.
Tell me, what is most probable when trying to recreate Shakespeare genius:

1 - Would putting 1,000,000 chimpanzees in front of a typewriter, for an indefinite period of time, make it more likely that Shakespeare works would be rewritten....or...
2 - Would it be more probable that this would occur if I placed 1,000 humans.

Both being primates sharing 98% of their DNA with one another.

A rational mind is one that tries to take advantage of efficiency.
If it were a matter of blind chance, then natural selection would do.
Consciousness, intelligence, is a streamlining of chance.
It does not wait for things to come about, but it takes what it perceives and tries to increase the probabilities that it will come about again, and again.

Order is about consistency, predictability, reliability.

You can exit your home, and go to work, confident that your odds of reaching your destination are good, because you live in an ordered system, which inhibits randomness.
One way it does so is to make all individuals within its premises to follow rules which make them uniform in their behaviors - making them predictable, reliable, ordered.

Thinking thoughts that contradict this uniforming order, is prohibited, obviously.
Making you believe that the chimp is just like you, and that it is preferable if there were seven billion chimps typing away, rather then 7,000 intelligent primates, is part of its values system.
It's values system is not altruistic, despite what they've brainwashed you to believe. It has to do with the needs of a materialistic, economic structure, which determines quality through quantity.

Now, it is true, that randomness can produce an Goethe or a Newton or a Napoleon, but in this case it is not really that random, as there are social rules present which determine not only what is produced but what comes about in antithesis, or as a reaction, to what is desirable.
An action producing an equal and opposite reaction.

We may just allow chance to determine what comes about. We may allow retards to have more babies than intelligent humans, and once in a while we will be surprised....but is this efficient, in your mind?

A basic rule in breeding:
If you want a particular trait to have a superior chance of repeating itself in the next generation you breed a female and a male possessing this trait.
Nothing hateful or disrespectful about this.
This is common sense.
Man sues it in husbandry every, fuckin' day!!!!

What a farmer wanting to preserve his herd's milk production, or to increase it, does not do, is let the bull copulate with every damn cow in the barn.
You, on the other hand, because you, supposedly, respect cows, would say that it is best to let dumb-luck decide the fortunes of the cow herd.

But not even this is true, making you delusional or a hypocrite. There is no chance in human social structures.
What there is is social selection, selecting docility, stupidity, femininity, tolerance, domesticated traits.
The goal being the most productive, docile, tame, human herd possible.

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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:42 am

Satyr wrote:
Respect is an anxiety based practice.
What anxiety controls you, Canterbury, making you want to respect whatever race you want to respect?
I don't respect or disrespect any race. As I said in the thread I made earlier this month I respect the elite, as I define them. It seems they likely consist of only those with the relevant northern European heritage, not to say that certain others of different races don't come very close to qualifying as an elite. I respect them because I am one of them and I must respect myself. My anxiety is that disrespect for myself will ruin me. This way of thinking is new to me, but now that I've come across it I find it to be very natural.

In my previous post in this thread I referred to those who are superficially successful. I'm anxious that my altruistic nature will also ruin me if I do not stop respecting the Christian ideal of the person who is "poor, but rich in spirit" so I have willed myself to change my way of thinking and I now respect those who have what I must also have to live. This change in my way of thinking was a slow process over the last couple years.

Quote :
Is saying that my dog is not as smart as I am, a disrespectful thing?
It goes without saying that dogs are unintelligent. I believe it is easy to respect any wild animal, but a tame dog would be hard pressed to deserve respect unless it was dangerous.

Quote :
Can I not treat my dog, as I would want to be treated myself, and still think of it as a dumber type of life-form?
Yes, but I don't understand the purpose of these last two questions.

Quote :
For me all types are about potentials, probabilities, not absolutes.
Tell me, what is most probable when trying to recreate Shakespeare genius:

1 - Would putting 1,000,000 chimpanzees in front of a typewriter, for an indefinite period of time, make it more likely that Shakespeare works would be rewritten....or...
2 - Would it be more probable that this would occur if I placed 1,000 humans.

Both being primates sharing 98% of their DNA with one another.
The background being equal, I'd say one random unknown descendant of northern Europe would likely have a better chance against numerous people of other races.

Quote :
A rational mind is one that tries to take advantage of efficiency.
If it were a matter of blind chance, then natural selection would do.
Consciousness, intelligence, is a streamlining of chance.
It does not wait for things to come about, but it takes what it perceives and tries to increase the probabilities that it will come about again, and again.

Order is about consistency, predictability, reliability.

You can exit your home, and go to work, confident that your odds of reaching your destination are good, because you live in an ordered system, which inhibits randomness.
One way it does so is to make all individuals within its premises to follow rules which make them uniform in their behaviors - making them predictable, reliable, ordered.

Thinking thoughts that contradict this uniforming order, is prohibited, obviously.
Making you believe that the chimp is just like you, and that it is preferable if there were seven billion chimps typing away, rather then 7,000 intelligent primates, is part of its values system.
It's values system is not altruistic, despite what they've brainwashed you to believe. It has to do with the needs of a materialistic, economic structure, which determines quality through quantity.
I overcame the liberal miseducation I received, so I had already known what you’re saying about the delusional idea of altruism. I said elsewhere I have an altruistic nature, but I don't really know if such is possible, perhaps I have sympathetic nature; one which has been difficult to live with.

Quote :
Now, it is true, that randomness can produce an Goethe or a Newton or a Napoleon, but in this case it is not really that random, as there are social rules present which determine not only what is produced but what comes about in antithesis, or as a reaction, to what is desirable.
An action producing an equal and opposite reaction.

We may just allow chance to determine what comes about. We may allow retards to have more babies than intelligent humans, and once in a while we will be surprised....but is this efficient, in your mind?


A basic rule in breeding:
If you want a particular trait to have a superior chance of repeating itself in the next generation you breed a female and a male possessing this trait.
Nothing hateful or disrespectful about this.
This is common sense.
Man sues it in husbandry every, fuckin' day!!!!

What a farmer wanting to preserve his herd's milk production, or to increase it, does not do, is let the bull copulate with every damn cow in the barn.
You, on the other hand, because you, supposedly, respect cows, would say that it is best to let dumb-luck decide the fortunes of the cow herd.

But not even this is true, making you delusional or a hypocrite.
I respect people who are superficially successful. In the thread I made earlier this month I defined them as the semi-elites and explained exactly what attributes they must have to earn my respect. I understand that even these semi-elites may have cow-like qualities, but certainly less than most people.

When speaking of animal breeding there is a pragmatic purpose to doing it efficiently, but it is only the concern of the farmers involved, I don't have a significant interest in how farmers breed their animals or the mating practices of strangers.

Quote :
There is no chance in human social structures.
What there is is social selection, selecting docility, stupidity, femininity, tolerance, domesticated traits.
The goal being the most productive, docile, tame, human herd possible.

I do not doubt that it is partially, if not entirely, fitting to describe people as being breed rather than simply breeding by their own cognition, and that they are being breed to be cow-like. This is a serious issue, and most importantly it is a reality that most are unaware of. My criticism in this thread is of the way some people believe they have a responsibility or incentive to make a serious effort to stop this. If they are doing it with the notion that they are only selfishly looking after their own interest then they are being very delusional; the amount of effort to stem this tide could not be worth it to any serious participant.

If they naively believe themselves to be selflessly or altruistically trying to insure a better future, then they are delusional in a way almost indistinguishable from the most defining feature of a liberal, and they are likely as hypocritical as any liberal who makes the pretense of altruism as a part of their preferred way of living.
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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:55 am

Recidivist wrote:
Also, it has long been a strategy of ethnic minorities - especially Asians in Europe - to get revenge on the white working class for their racism and to compensate them for their feelings of inferiority by over achieving academically and thus looking down on their counterparts. It doesn't quite work with blacks, of course, as they don't have the intelligence in the first place so their only strategy is to constantly play the race card.
A have to agree, being an Asian myself. Asians, Orientals in particular, often make the mistake of confusing academic qualifications with intelligence & creativity.

I agree with the sentiments made by the user Canterbury - Most people of all races are dumb as shit. But that doesn't prove race is meaningless. If you look at the Nobel prizes, ground breaking inventions, and peer reviewed scientific research papers, it is evident that Europeans & Jews have a monopoly on superior intellect. I believe Race indicate potential. In the hierarchy of race, Europeans are at the top while Negroes are at the bottom. The inferiority of Negroes is further exemplified by the fact that they only excel in fields of entertainment. They use the race card, just as women use the 'misogyny' or 'sexist' card.


(English is not my native language)
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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:01 am

Canterbury wrote:

It's debatable as to what other degree value advanced technology has had. It seems undoubtable that the technology of the last hundred years has had no significantly redeeming feature other than defense.
I think u mean last 50 years, no?


Canterbury wrote:
I understand their goal and the goals of many other organizations like them. The want to preserve racial integrity and they want the US to become a country that is once again for the benefit of white people alone.

I don't see a problem with that, and I completely understand the need for Europeans to preserve their heritage, their racial identity at the onslaught of forced multiculturalism. But, what is there left to preserve?

Canterbury wrote:
The argument as to why we may want the lesser 75% is that they still have a high potential to produce elites, this goes back to the goal of preserving our racial integrity. But, one must think of it this way; much of what is wrong with liberalism is its misguided notions of improving the world for the future of humanity as a whole. That is exactly what they are attempting to do within their own perception of what constitutes improvement. The idea that racial integrity may be preserved for hundreds of years worldwide is appealing over the alternative, but is completely unnatural as a goal. It is only natural to worry about one’s own family line. So wouldn't it be far more pragmatic for people with this concern to stress values among their children, rather than to advocate the unrealistic notion that they could succeed at stemming the tide of racial integration?

Indeed. If you look at history, many civilizations had internal conflicts & often one group enslaved other groups of their own race. The Greeks did that, so did the Indians. While stressing the importance of race, it must be realized that sharing common values, ideals & goals, is more important than racial integrity.
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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:04 pm

Canterbury wrote:

Quote :
Can I not treat my dog, as I would want to be treated myself, and still think of it as a dumber type of life-form?
Yes, but I don't understand the purpose of these last two questions.
Saying that something is inferior in some area, does not mean you do not respect it as a living organism.

The pagan mentality, as I understand it, is to honor your prey, when you've killed it to sustain yourself.
Not to kill or hurt indiscriminately, but with extreme discrimination and awareness of what you are doing and why.  

Canterbury wrote:
The background being equal, I'd say one random unknown descendant of northern Europe would likely have a better chance against numerous people of other races.
And this would be a rational conclusion given the past, right?
We learn and are informed by the past. Not how we wish it were, or how we think the exception will come about, but how it has occurred, most often, in the past.

This is how we determine probability, as a limitation to possibility.

Based on my knowledge of animal behavior and of the particular type, and based no its past performance, I conclude that a chimp sitting on a typewriter is less likely to reproduce a work of literary art than a human would be.

Therefore, if i wish to be efficient, using my mind (it being a tool for efficiency), I would not rely on dumb-luck, and place a billion chimps before typewriters giving myself thousands of years, but I would place humans there.

Similarly, if I wanted to make sure that the probability for an intelligent mind to be born I would not go to the lesser brains, and hope for that chance mutation, but I would select the most intellectually gifted.

That's how we breed dogs, no?  
This is husbandry, no?

No, if I wanted to breed the most stupid brain possible but did not to show my intent what would I do?
Yes, I would promote equality, and return the population to a primal state, while at the same time sheltering it and feeding it feel-good nihilistic lies.

Let's take away the last part and focus on the first two methods.
Let's say I want my herd of cows to be as mediocre as possible, what would I do?
If I closed them up in a barn, so that no culling can weed out inferior mutations gave them good food, attention and so on, and then permitted them to fuck as they liked ...how long would it take for this population of cows to breed out their ability to survive outside the barn?


Canterbury wrote:
We may just allow chance to determine what comes about. We may allow retards to have more babies than intelligent humans, and once in a while we will be surprised....but is this efficient, in your mind?

See above.


Canterbury wrote:

I do not doubt that it is partially, if not entirely, fitting to describe people as being breed rather than simply breeding by their own cognition, and that they are being breed to be cow-like. This is a serious issue, and most importantly it is a reality that most are unaware of. My criticism in this thread is of the way some people believe they have a responsibility or incentive to make a serious effort to stop this. If they are doing it with the notion that they are only selfishly looking after their own interest then they are being very delusional; the amount of effort to stem this tide could not be worth it to any serious participant.
This is why I speak of elites, or tribes within a tribe.
A meme is a tribe based no shared idea(l)s.

The problem, here, is convincing females that this is healthier.

Men will be attracted to this for many reasons, and we must make sure that we do not attract and accept the males with the wrong motives, as they do in the MRA.
Women, on the other hand, will be more difficult to convince, because females are naturally less intelligent, on average, and because the system offers them a more seductive alternative - a supernatural one, a nihilistic one, that feels good.


I know of Lyssa, and a few others, who are almost like her, but not more than that.
Lyssa is so on-board that many think she's me. They believe that I am using her moniker.
This is how rare and contrary to the western norm, women like her are.

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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:37 am

prabath wrote:
I think u mean last 50 years, no?
In the early 1900s there was most of the forms of travel we have now, telephone and radios, and suffecient machinery to avoid the worst of back-breaking labor, but without the machinery and computers that make any effort in life almost seem futile. What is it about the state of technolohy is the early '60s that appeals to you?

Quote :
Indeed. If you look at history, many civilizations had internal conflicts & often one group enslaved other groups of their own race. The Greeks did that, so did the Indians. While stressing the importance of race, it must be realized that sharing common values, ideals & goals, is more important than racial integrity.
I guess, but there's a difference between prefering an outcome and trying to make it happen.

Satyr wrote:
Saying that something is inferior in some area, does not mean you do not respect it as a living organism.

The pagan mentality, as I understand it, is to honor your prey, when you've killed it to sustain yourself.
Not to kill or hurt indiscriminately, but with extreme discrimination and awareness of what you are doing and why.
I haven't been succesful in relating the above to your early statement:

Quote :
Respect is an anxiety based practice.

Quote :
And this would be a rational conclusion given the past, right?
We learn and are informed by the past. Not how we wish it were, or how we think the exception will come about, but how it has occurred, most often, in the past.

This is how we determine probability, as a limitation to possibility.

Based on my knowledge of animal behavior and of the particular type, and based no its past performance, I conclude that a chimp sitting on a typewriter is less likely to reproduce a work of literary art than a human would be.

Therefore, if i wish to be efficient, using my mind (it being a tool for efficiency), I would not rely on dumb-luck, and place a billion chimps before typewriters giving myself thousands of years, but I would place humans there.

Similarly, if I wanted to make sure that the probability for an intelligent mind to be born I would not go to the lesser brains, and hope for that chance mutation, but I would select the most intellectually gifted.

That's how we breed dogs, no?  
This is husbandry, no?

No, if I wanted to breed the most stupid brain possible but did not to show my intent what would I do?
Yes, I would promote equality, and return the population to a primal state, while at the same time sheltering it and feeding it feel-good nihilistic lies.

Let's take away the last part and focus on the first two methods.
Let's say I want my herd of cows to be as mediocre as possible, what would I do?
If I closed them up in a barn, so that no culling can weed out inferior mutations gave them good food, attention and so on, and then permitted them to fuck as they liked ...how long would it take for this population of cows to breed out their ability to survive outside the barn?
It might not take them long, but they aren't my cattle, so let them devolve until they piss sideways and can no longer withstand the weight of their own heads. What sort of activism do you such suggest in stopping the development of cow-people? I didn't look but I assume http://whiteresister.com would advocate writing letters, making demonstrations and most importantly; sending them money.

Quote :
This is why I speak of elites, or tribes within a tribe.
A meme is a tribe based no shared idea(l)s.

The problem, here, is convincing females that this is healthier.

Men will be attracted to this for many reasons, and we must make sure that we do not attract and accept the males with the wrong motives, as they do in the MRA.
Yes; no idiots, MRAs or any other liberals, and wouldn't you agree we also shouldn't include most white supremist?

Quote :
I know of Lyssa, and a few others, who are almost like her, but not more than that.
Lyssa is so on-board that many think she's me. They believe that I am using her moniker.
This is how rare and contrary to the western norm, women like her are.
At first I was confused by her, but now I understand. Just as I'm content to say that I'm one of the rare exceptions that could likely only come from a race that would otherwise have only a few redeaming features over other races, she's content to consider herself to be an elite among her gender and in fact, like myself, or even more so, an elite among all people in general.
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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:58 am

Canterbury wrote:
I haven't been succesful in relating the above to your early statement:


Quote:
Respect is an anxiety based practice.
We respect what has the potential to withhold something from us.
The more we value that "some-thing", the more we inhibit self, so as to not hurt other, forcing it away or to withhold what we need and it provides.

There's also the respect derived form someone threatening to withhold something from us: like our life.
Respect from an immediate threat. .

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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:26 pm

Canterbury wrote:

At first I was confused by her, but now I understand.
Confused, how?


Quote :
Just as I'm content to say that I'm one of the rare exceptions that could likely only come from a race that would otherwise have only a few redeaming features over other races, she's content to consider herself to be an elite among her gender and in fact, like myself, or even more so, an elite among all people in general.
No, I do not relate with your saying "I'm one of the rare exceptions that could likely only come from a race that would otherwise have only a few redeaming features over other races".

Redemption? saving grace?

Exceptions always thrive on the rule.
To deny the rule, is to become your own hangman.
I think this is what Satyr meant with his picture of the dog - one does not hate a lower life-form.
The herd is innocent, and true to its own nature and capacity and temperament. Its the shepherds who guide the herd and tilt the balance that one needs to fight against. The herd is always useful and valuable; a creative and rare artist bestows *his honour and confers *his dignity on them by finding a nobler place, according a nobler purpose to them, appropriately, thereby raising them.

In antiquity, race meant the sum total of a gene pool's ideals, achievements, direction, the whole complex of meme and gene interacting in a self-loop ensured by what the greeks called "paideia".
The Indo-European cultural values is that heritage we inherited and thinned in decadence, part of it natural and part of it as we see today since the birth of judaism, a systematic war to erase it away to a blank state. With paideia, kin-selective altruism was a natural and easy means of self-ish extension.
Today, with the gene-meme disconnect, as always this topic comes up, and it depends on how one sees oneself. As an Apollonian artist concerned with aesthetic qualities trying to re-new the gene-pool mimetically through like-minded individuals of various races, or as a Dionysian artist concerned with honour imperatives trying to affirm one's fate, station, reality in life creating, inventing, improvising with what's at hand genetically through loyalty to one's own source of being.
The Apollonian renews into novelty, the Dionysian purifies the same.
The former has strong eyes, the latter has strong feet.

These are not absolutes; in some individuals the two paths co-mingle in whatever degrees.

You ask, "where does genetic superiority of a race lie?",,, and to me, its in the Nietzschean apollo-sublimated-Dionysian stance, "how many parasites can you endure?".

Superiority is in Endurance of different drives, needs, goals, thirsts, and denying nothing, sparing nothing in affirming all that which one can manage to.
That is why the I.E. race/s are and have been so war-like, because the very perspectives of their birthing is in pagan philosophies that wanted to unsparingly affirm as much disgust, unpleasantness, disadvantages, waves of nightmarish nihilisms, the foreign, the alien, the dirt, the catastrophic circularities of things as possible.
To deny and wish away one part, is to deny and wish away your self.
How does and how can one speak of self-love or being an elite rarity severing away from the other?

There are white "trash" idiots, but every growth of a culture involves natural refuse materials also.
If the height is ours, the sordid shallowness and the terrible depth too is ours. We spare nothing, as the most self-affirmative lovers.

If I were born an African, I wouldn't trade my "race" and heritage-less past for anything in the world, simply because even a void desert is a stimulus to be the first to create something in all that emptiness. If there was no substantial past, I would say, then an heritage will begin with myself.
Only an I.E. Dionysian "can" speak like that.
You see?
The Heart is not for sale or exchange or interchange with "any other race" as you put it. It needs no redemption.

I hope you understand.

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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:26 pm

prabath wrote:

I don't see a problem with that, and I completely understand the need for Europeans to preserve their heritage, their racial identity at the onslaught of forced multiculturalism. But, what is there left to preserve?
Ideas, ideals, values never die; they just go dormant and re-emerge in a different garb in newer times.
Life is furious interactivity and what is woven in the well of the Wyrd, is a pattern that reserves the potential to repeat and re-appear again. Its how we get cultural archetypes.


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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:34 pm

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It’s hard to remember back to the Margaret Mead era when cultural anthropology was the neuroscience of its day, the glamor subject for aspiring middlebrows. During the early Cold War, more than few Americans diligently tried to take an intelligent interest in the vast array of foreign cultures that were suddenly deemed of strategic importance to the new American empire, so the insights of anthropologists were in popular demand.

Unfortunately, cultural anthropologists soon lost sight of the forest for the trees, leading to a glut of unreadably detailed studies, such as our current President’s mother’s 1,043-page dissertation on Indonesian blacksmithery. In turn, the public lost interest in alien cultures. Barack Obama, for example, who had been raised to be a diplomat or international affairs scholar, moved to insular Illinois in hopes of becoming mayor of Chicago.

This decline in attention paid to exotic mores has cost America dearly in the post-Cold War era, as America’s leaders blundered into countries such as Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya with little awareness of how radically alien their cultures are. The successes of postwar American occupations in Germany and Japan turned out to be irrelevant in Iraq, a fundamentally tribal land where roughly half of all married couples are also first or second cousins by blood. Saddam Hussein proved not to be a Hitler at the controls of a terrifyingly well-organized state, but an aging bullyboy who had scared a fundamentally fractious population, divided into countless family mafias, into temporarily refraining from drilling holes in each others’ heads.

The withering of public respect for cultural anthropologists has opened the door for a handful of outsiders, such as ornithologist Jared Diamond, to offer the public readable accounts that try to draw broad lessons from the seeming trivia of anthropology. A worthy entrant in this genre is law professor Mark S. Weiner’s account of the continuing global appeal of clannishness: The Rule of the Clan.

The subject of how people align themselves with relatives beyond their nuclear families is central to traditional cultural anthropology, but academics frequently get blinded by what renegade anthropologist Robin Fox calls “ethnographic dazzle.” Each individual’s family tree extends outward almost indefinitely to countless relatives, so different cultures have different rules for which relations matter most. Researchers tend to get lost in the thickets of whether a culture emphasizes ties with the paternal or maternal extended families, in-laws or nephews, cross or parallel cousins, and so on.

Weiner wisely sidesteps most of these technical questions, with just a few standard examples from the anthropological literature, such as the Nuers of South Sudan exemplifying segmentary lineages. (“Me and my brothers against my cousins, me and my cousins against the world.”)

The minutiae of family structure generally bewilder English-speakers because the English embody an extreme degree of nuclear-family orientation. What French anthropologist Emmanuel Todd calls the “absolute nuclear family” was traditionally only found in Europe in the old Anglo-Saxon lands around the North Sea. For at least 800 years, the fondest dream of the English (who will send even their small children off to boarding schools rather than have them underfoot) has been, as much as possible, to avoid dealing with their kin. Perhaps parliamentary government, the common law, the rights of Englishmen, and other individualistic innovations were just an attempt by the English to avoid having to set up the usual mafias for self-protection because they don’t get on well with their family connections.

Weiner focuses on a few central lessons. Exactly which side of the family a particular culture deems proper to team up with is less important than the fact that in much of the world they do team up. And they have very good reasons to do so. We all need protection from predation, and we need assurances that our contracts will be enforced so we can engage in complex enterprises.

Clans provide fellow warriors to fight for you in return for your fighting for them. Clannishness even offers nonviolent methods, such as ostracism, to make sure that business partners aren’t cheated. For instance, the Antwerp diamond market has long been run by clans of Orthodox Jews and (increasingly) certain South Asian castes. Why? Because the transaction costs of appraising diamonds with microscopes for arms-length transactions are prohibitively high for wholesalers. Instead, clan members deal quickly with each other on their word of honor. If one dealer were to develop a reputation for cheating his distant relatives, his fraud wouldn’t be laboriously documented to the Belgian state. Instead, his children wouldn’t find anyone suitable to marry. Thus, classic clannishness prospers today even in a city that may have been the richest in Northern Europe in the 16th century.

Of course, clannishness has its downsides. Because cultural anthropologists have abjured objective research in favor of political advocacy for their subjects, they are loath to discuss it. But the disadvantages of tribalism—such as frequent blood feuding and restrictions on love marriages—are a staple of literature and movies. Juliet isn’t free to marry Romeo, for example, because she has been promised to Count Paris as part of the Capulets’ system of alliances.

Weiner’s grandparents include Serbs, Croats, and Jews, so he knows from tribalism.  But Weiner has an even better example of clannishness, one that only the most paralytically politically correct would object to as racist: Scottish Highlanders, who made one of the more successful transitions from clannishness to modernity. The kilted clansmen of the wild north of Scotland were not brought wholly under state control until the clans were crushed by the British government after they invaded England in 1745.

Weiner points out that Sir Walter Scott revolutionized literature in 1814 with what is sometimes described as the first historical novel, Waverly, an account of Bonnie Prince Charlie’s uprising as witnessed by a young English gentleman who finds himself fighting on the side of the rude Highlanders. Weiner loves Scott because he was not only the most popular of the Romantic writers, glamorizing a region and culture that had previously been ignored by the English, but he was also a lawyer. (A remarkable fraction of the leading creative artists in European history were lapsed lawyers or law students.) In Waverly, Weiner points out, Scott offered the first careful analysis of clannishness. Scott ultimately preferred the Saxons’ rule of law, but he grasped the emotional power of the old ways.

How can present-day societies of status evolve into modern societies of contract, to use Henry Maine’s famous distinction? Weiner commends the example set by the liberal professions—especially his own. And while Weiner may be biased, there are numerous recent examples of law professionals providing heroic role models, from the brave Italian prosecutors who took on the Mafia in Sicily two decades ago to the Pakistani prosecutor recently assassinated on his way to charging that unhappy country’s former dictator.

Still, Weiner’s book raises more disturbing questions than it answers. For instance, how do we know that clannishness isn’t the wave of the future?

While Weiner emphasizes the positive benefits of modern states, they triumphed mostly because they were better at total war. As the years go by, though, the bravery of the men who sacrificed themselves for their countrymen at Gettysburg or the Bulge seems less replicable. Likewise, some of us old-timers remember when space exploration was expected to become “the moral equivalent of war.” The Enterprise’s Captain James Kirk was modeled directly upon the Endeavour’s Captain James Cook, that symbol of meritocratic advancement from farm boy to explorer of the Enlightenment.

In a mostly peaceful and earthbound 21st-century, however, why not instead connive to advance your family at the expense of your fellow citizens? Thus, the immigration debate is being conducted in the press as if the entire “citizenist” notion of Americans having responsibilities to their fellow citizens just because they are their fellow citizens is unimaginable.

Weiner writes: “The heart of the feuding process beats with the principle that individuals have no legal identity independent of their kin. Harms they suffer are recognized as injuries to the group. Actions taken in response to those harms are pursued by the group on its own behalf.” This sounds rather like how the media are imploring Hispanic voters take racial vengeance upon the GOP for not letting in as many of their foreign co-ethnics as care to immigrate here.

Similarly, America seems to be moving toward a society of status based on the proclaimed victimhood of one’s clan. For instance, the highly productive Weiner was long employed as a law professor at Rutgers’ satellite campus in Newark. In contrast, a decade ago Obama, a part-time lecturer, was offered tenure at the prestigious University of Chicago Law School despite having published no legal scholarship. Why? Because of Obama’s inborn racial status.

In a world where it pays to belong to a designated victim tribe, a perhaps unsurprising phenomenon is the current rush by some whites, who can’t claim special status by ancestry, to have themselves elevated above criticism by the privileged status of their sexual orientation. Homosexuals have often formed pseudo-clans, perhaps the most famous being the Bloomsbury cabal to undermine Victorian virtues organized by biographer Lytton Strachey around John Maynard Keynes, E.M. Forster, and Virginia Woolf. When Harvard historian Niall Ferguson recently alluded unflatteringly to this immensely well-documented bit of history, he was denounced worldwide for his insensitivity to a powerless victim group. He’d never lecture in this town again!

Ferguson, a financial historian who knows which side his bread is buttered on, immediately apologized.

Steve Sailer is a columnist for VDARE.com and TakiMag.com.


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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:25 pm

Hypersocialization is the primary factor behind the profound stupidity of the average young adult today. These are the people who as children are rarely left to themselves and their own devices, resulting in a mental/emotional dependence upon the herd and a tendency toward all doing and no thinking. Their otherwise developing identity is almost always being imposed upon by those of others, a pulverizing down ultimately producing a uniform one...one to the contrary would disrupt the (matured) herd's delicate sensibility(ies). Hypersocialization aggregates the mind and consequently the behavior, the standard naturally tending toward the lowest common denominator, as this way of being is the easiest and most "fun". These people are addicted to the herd as they are devoid of a sense of self without it.

Fundamentally this has become such a problem in the white population because of the huge rise in permissive parenting. Permissive parenting results in children being shaped and molded by their peers, i.e. other children, later on, mentally stunted and psychotic fucktards, as this is all who they've left to go to. Add government SCHOOLING and the problem is amplified exponentially. Permissive parenting is a product of liberalism and parents whose parenting methods (or lack thereof) are a REACTION to how they were parented...in this case, old school authoritarian; they "snap" to the other end of the spectrum in a massive mindless knee-jerk reaction, typically with a dash of vengeance or the like mixed in. In reality it's about them, their feelings, their laziness, parental inadequacy, self-loathing and so on, not about being nice and all of this shit, to their children. Really what they end up doing is ruining their children's lives by laying the foundation for them becoming addicts and retards.
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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:58 pm

Lyssa wrote:
Canterbury wrote:
At first I was confused by her, but now I understand.
 

Confused, how?
There is much talk of women being inferior in this forum, I've only read ten to twenty posts of yours so far and I don't recall you giving your views on that.

Quote :
Quote :
Just as I'm content to say that I'm one of the rare exceptions that could likely only come from a race that would otherwise have only a few redeeming features over other races, she's content to consider herself to be an elite among her gender and in fact, like myself, or even more so, an elite among all people in general.
No, I do not relate with your saying "I'm one of the rare exceptions that could likely only come from a race that would otherwise have only a few redeeming features over other races".

Redemption? saving grace?
From what arguments and evidence I know of so far during the time I studied this subject I believe the only indisputable fact about the white race's superiority is that it has a much higher potential to produce people with very rare levels of intelligence. I believe that the word "redeeming" was ill-chosen, but it was used within the context of this thread, which questions the goals of half-wit white supremacists. I doubt those people will be satisfied with being no better than anyone else of any race, except in that they are fodder for the white elites. They have made their opinion as to their genetic superiority very clear, to the point where if they were proven wrong in most regards, they would at least be left with a few features to ease their fallen pride, so, yes; those features would almost be a "saving grace" to them.

Quote :
Exceptions always thrive on the rule.
To deny the rule, is to become your own hangman.
I think this is what Satyr meant with his picture of the dog - one does not hate a lower life-form.
The herd is innocent, and true to its own nature and capacity and temperament. Its the shepherds who guide the herd and tilt the balance that one needs to fight against. The herd is always useful and valuable; a creative and rare artist bestows *his honour and confers *his dignity on them by finding a nobler place, according a nobler purpose to them, appropriately, thereby raising them.
I agree completely, through various forms of creative expression the elites can potentially help those people in some manner, but I would guess that the philosophy and goals behind most racially biased websites don't have the least artistic sentiment.  I know there are brilliant authors of literature advocating racial integrity, but I'm still mostly unfamiliar with them. What I do know very well is that the sources for most white supremacists are very shallow.

Quote :
In antiquity, race meant the sum total of a gene pool's ideals, achievements, direction, the whole complex of meme and gene interacting in a self-loop ensured by what the greeks called "paideia".
The Indo-European cultural values is that heritage we inherited and thinned in decadence, part of it natural and part of it as we see today since the birth of judaism, a systematic war to erase it away to a blank state. With paideia, kin-selective altruism was a natural and easy means of self-ish extension.
Today, with the gene-meme disconnect, as always this topic comes up, and it depends on how one sees oneself. As an Apollonian artist concerned with aesthetic qualities trying to re-new the gene-pool mimetically through like-minded individuals of various races, or as a Dionysian artist concerned with honour imperatives trying to affirm one's fate, station, reality in life creating, inventing, improvising with what's at hand genetically through loyalty to one's own source of being.
The Apollonian renews into novelty, the Dionysian purifies the same.
The former has strong eyes, the latter has strong feet.

These are not absolutes; in some individuals the two paths co-mingle in whatever degrees.

You ask, "where does genetic superiority of a race lie?",,, and to me, its in the Nietzschean apollo-sublimated-Dionysian stance, "how many parasites can you endure?".
Is it a virtue to endure parasites? Perhaps it is a virtue to endure certain lower forms of life, but not the ones that can be credited as nothing more than parasitical.

Quote :
Superiority is in Endurance of different drives, needs, goals, thirsts, and denying nothing, sparing nothing in affirming all that which one can manage to.
That is why the I.E. race/s are and have been so war-like, because the very perspectives of their birthing is in pagan philosophies that wanted to unsparingly affirm as much disgust, unpleasantness, disadvantages, waves of nightmarish nihilisms, the foreign, the alien, the dirt, the catastrophic circularities of things as possible.
To deny and wish away one part, is to deny and wish away your self.
How does and how can one speak of self-love or being an elite rarity severing away from the other?
I don't remember implying that we must be severed from them. They are a part of the natural modern world which is the only canvas we have to work with. In my two other threads I was originally speaking of the need for self-respect and stated that I could gain that by no longer respected those beneath me. Perhaps it was in poor taste to speak of disrespect for others. I simple wish to stop the illusion I had of being the same as them. In other words, I had to accept who I am, an elite; and it didn't come easy to me having been previously so thoroughly engrained in the liberal Christian idea of humility. Now that I'm no longer unwittingly practicing the deception of modesty I can now respect myself for who I am and I can respect others for who they are, no matter how little that may be.

Quote :
There are white "trash" idiots, but every growth of a culture involves natural refuse materials also.
If the height is ours, the sordid shallowness and the terrible depth too is ours. We spare nothing, as the most self-affirmative lovers.

If I were born an African, I wouldn't trade my "race" and heritage-less past for anything in the world, simply because even a void desert is a stimulus to be the first to create something in all that emptiness. If there was no substantial past, I would say, then an heritage will begin with myself.
Only an I.E. Dionysian "can" speak like that.
You see?
The Heart is not for sale or exchange or interchange with "any other race" as you put it. It needs no redemption.

I hope you understand.

I believe so. I defined elite more thoroughly in another thread. Even there I could have gone into more detail; I was already aware of most of the subtleties you spoke of. Also, I agree that people with no heritage can potentially start anew. But, since you can only make that hypothetical claim as an I.E. Dionysian, if you couldn't if you were born an African. Perhaps, I misunderstood, or perhaps you're saying that you would be the exception and how would you relate that view to Satyr's views on cultural/genetic ceilings?
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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:11 pm

Canterbury wrote:
Lyssa wrote:
Canterbury wrote:
At first I was confused by her, but now I understand.
 

Confused, how?
There is much talk of women being inferior in this forum, I've only read ten to twenty posts of yours so far and I don't recall you giving your views on that.
I don't see any talk on women being inferior here.


Quote :
From what arguments and evidence I know of so far during the time I studied this subject I believe the only indisputable fact about the white race's superiority is that it has a much higher potential to produce people with very rare levels of intelligence. I believe that the word "redeeming" was ill-chosen, but it was used within the context of this thread, which questions the goals of half-wit white supremacists. I doubt those people will be satisfied with being no better than anyone else of any race, except in that they are fodder for the white elites. They have made their opinion as to their genetic superiority very clear, to the point where if they were proven wrong in most regards, they would at least be left with a few features to ease their fallen pride, so, yes; those features would almost be a "saving grace" to them.
Self-criticism and "internal audits" are healthy and necessary.
But depends on who you call white trash here. To you they are white supremacists. I refine the trash further and say this white trash atleast act as carriers and preservers of customs, no matter the kind of mindless idiots they are. Those skinheads raving about "we are the best" and "14 words" and white as just a skin-colour, and holding Mein Kampf bibles spewing anti-semitic hatred without a hint of any history, any knowledge, going on f--- you rallies and bathory concerts, drinking beer and passing out is better trash than those "intelligent" whites with high IQs and academic degrees and well-learned, only to advance jewish values or speaking against race realism, etc. This is more white trash than skinheads to me.


Quote :
Is it a virtue to endure parasites? Perhaps it is a virtue to endure certain lower forms of life, but not the ones that can be credited as nothing more than parasitical.
Superiority is about testing, endurance... who said anything about virtue?
Its about creativity. Its about creating resources - means and tools of all that is before one to one's purpose.
How do you put unrefined things to use without wasting them, letting them rot? How do you raise them? You confer on them your direction and a noble purpose with minimal expenditure...
About possessing ten thousand extra arms and feet... self-expansion.
That said, there's always a right time to die, and a right time to put something to death... until then,.....
I am no Xt. preaching tolerance as an ends in itself.

Quote :
Also, I agree that people with no heritage can potentially start anew. But, since you can only make that hypothetical claim as an I.E. Dionysian, if you couldn't if you were born an African. Perhaps, I misunderstood,
You did not misunderstand; that's what I meant.
Do you see any apollo-affirmative-Dionysian vigour among Africans? No.
Its not intelligence alone that is redeeming; there is an archetypical spirit, a heart, that is natural and peculiar to a unique culture - was my larger point.

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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:51 am

Lyssa wrote:
I don't see any talk on women being inferior here.
It was my impression that such talk was going on, but I don't wish to argue, I'm undecided and without bias on that issue.

Quote :
Self-criticism and "internal audits" are healthy and necessary.
But depends on who you call white trash here. To you they are white supremacists. I refine the trash further and say this white trash atleast act as carriers and preservers of customs, no matter the kind of mindless idiots they are. Those skinheads raving about "we are the best" and "14 words" and white as just a skin-colour, and holding Mein Kampf bibles spewing anti-semitic hatred without a hint of any history, any knowledge, going on f--- you rallies and bathory concerts, drinking beer and passing out is better trash than those "intelligent" whites with high IQs and academic degrees and well-learned, only to advance jewish values or speaking against race realism, etc. This is more white trash than skinheads to me.
I mostly agree. It's important to note that I don't believe there is any standardized way to determine one of the true and very rare intellectual elite. How could their be, the smarter half of the rabble would create artificial standards to measure intelligence? I know some of those considered to be among the greats in philosophy and the arts belonged to the true elite by the quality of the work they left behind, I'm hesitant to mention many because of late I've been revaluated many of them, but for example, obviously those such as Mozart and Heidegger belong. Then there are people on forums I've participated in for whom I suspect belong in the elite, I only need to give the work they provide in posts and such a more thorough study and perhaps ask if they can provide more.

I entertained ludicrous ideas when I was young, but they are vanishing fast. I believe for one who is in there intellectual prime to still be advocating most forms of liberalism gives then little chance to be an elite and if they advocate the most self-defeating of liberalism then I would agree they are lower than white trash for whom, as you say, "act as carriers and preservers of customs". What we are comparing though, is those who do harm to society and those who fail in their attempts to help society.

I respect those I call the semi-elites, who are often conservative people with a reasonable income, who set an example of quality living without extravagance and a strong orientation to the unity and preservation of their family. Like the trash they too are doing very little for society, but the betterment of society is a far more complex subject than simply advocating an ideal. What I appreciate about them is that they set an example to be emulated. The white trash as in the linked website, mix in unsubstantial claims with the substantial. The website is uninspiring, and almost ludicrous in it's page design. I believe that a liberal may gladly link to that website, as a form of ridicule. Contrast that with this forum, for which a liberal may be content to sweep under the rug rather than contend with the high level debate antagonistic to their views.
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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:07 am

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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:11 am

Why did you erase?

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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:19 am

It was supposed to be the one in the dungeon, I posted it here by mistake.
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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:37 am

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"The white man has forgotten how to think naturally and numinously. His sense of right and wrong are filtered through his judeo-christian upbringing, which is itself foreign to his pure state. He thinks and acts like a coward because he is plugged into the ordinary life, which is upheld by the talmudic cabal who have no greater fear than the awakening of the inner (Aryan) beast that has become compassion-less through generations of racial humiliation.

This now brings me to the nature of the Aryan.

The Aryan, of course, is a different being altogether, a different species perhaps. The conscience of an Aryan is seared when he sees the abuse of his womenfolk and the wholesale slaughter of his people. He cannot look away and pretend this ancient genocide is an economic matter rather than a racial one. He sees through the myth of the ordinary life and understands that it is all an illusion. He knows that eventually it will be broken. He looks forward in eager expectation to the day. His ancestors still speak to his spirit, they still abide in his blood. He remains unmoved when beasts in the shape of men tell him that he belongs to a dying breed. In the end he knows that the numbers will not matter. They never have. All that matters is the profound intensity that he bears within his heart. It will be by this intensity that a new world will arise. It will be by this inward ferocity that the present order of things will be overturned. He does not fear what is coming nor does he fear his own death. Fear belongs only to the desperate.

The Aryan is forged in the fires and trials of life. He emerges from the white chrysalis, but is greater than it. He learns from his mistakes, and through years of profound study and application becomes more than just a white person. Participating in the ordinary life, and accepting its mundane ideals is unthinkable to the Aryan. In essence, he has “tuned out” and has emerged by way of an alchemical process as something both natural and numinous, mortal and immortal. Such a being is able to take his mind to lofty places and understand things that his mortally-minded folk cannot yet grasp. By seeing racially, his friendships and relationships become far more intense and meaningful. He understands that what happens in the physical world is a reflection of what happens in the unseen worlds. He understands the ultimate in Aryan wisdom: the physical world is a symbol of something both profound and unseen. He grasps that what happens in this world is carried with us forever. Thus, every thought and deed is taken into consideration.

Most importantly, the Aryan does not fall into the trap of oneness. He understands most profoundly that distinction in race and individuality is the very source of meaning. All love and meaning dies in the impersonal. The jews, the anthithesis of “creation” itself, seek to destroy the world by destroying all borders and distinctions, racial, gender, social and religious. As borders and distinctions are destroyed, life begins to lose meaning. It is for this reason alone that many people are in the midst of depression and other mental illnesses. Even modern spirituality reflects this dismal plunge into the abyss as people profess we are all one, claiming that when we die we merge into an impersonal oneness they call “God”. Don’t believe it. Race and truth are eternally bound together. The Aryan is a wholly individuated being that transcends vain spiritual and religious ideations. On these issues I could write volumes."


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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:53 pm

For those unaware, Canterbury is my old account. Thank you for that link.
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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:16 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:22 pm

.


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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:52 pm

cold wrote:
Race is a artificial construct.
Deep.
So is "a".

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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:01 pm

"Race is a artificial construct."

Got no time or patience to assess the above.

I can only ask (rhetorically): are you fuckin' stupid?

jeez...  Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Race, Elitism, and Self-Respect Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:11 pm

Nah, another retard desperate for attention.

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