· At male strip shows, it is still the women that we watch, the audience of women and their eager faces. They are more obscene than if they were dancing naked themselves.
· At the heart of pornography is sexuality haunted by its own disappearance.
The canary in the proverbial mineshaft is sexual fantasy. Like with dreams, it exposes the individual's most intimate self in a purely fantastic way.
The canary in the proverbial mineshaft is sexual fantasy. Like with dreams, it exposes the individual's most intimate self in a purely fantastic way.
You're correct, but in any case I would recommend: literature rather than internet porn.
The effect of porn is that it actually destroys the important imagination within sex and leads to erectile dysfuntion. Like in the above vid with the rats, that rather go without eating and drinking (and die) just to get their dopamine stimulated.
I downloaded Baudrillards "Seduction" as pdf. (Porn goes without Seduction.) There is a chapter on porn in it. The movie "Videodrome" (1983) deals with this topic as well. Foucault has talked about it too.
Niklas Luhmann wrote on it: that in porn nothing is left to the imagination. Everything is shown.
And that exactly is the problem. Erotic deals within the subtle, the hidden, the not fully exposed. Once you see everything, all "magic" is lost and thereby all what's interesting. Esther Vilar made an interesting remark in her book "The manipulated man" (that I highly recommend)
Quote :
(my translation): "Man does not purchase the numerous pornographic magazines for his own pleasure - he'd have more enjoyment on another niveau -, but in the desperate hope that by these strong stimuli, he stays always fit and on the height of his male myth."
That this equation actually goes in the opposite direction, is what todays neuroscience proves. (Erectile dysfuntion) The quote reminds me of Gilles Deleuzes' "Capitalism and Schizophrenia".
"And accompanying this encroachment of powers, scattered sexualities rigidified, became stuck to an age, a place, a type of practice. A proliferation of sexualities through the extension of power; an optimization of the power to which each of these local sexualities gave a surface of intervention; this concatenation, particularly since the nineteenth century, has been ensured and relayed by the countless economic interests which, with the help of medicine, psychiatry, prostitution, and pornography, have tapped into both this analytic multiplication of pleasure and this optimization of the power that controls it. Pleasure and power do not cancel or turn back against one another; they seek out, overlap, and reinforce one another. They are linked together by complex mechanisms and devices of excitation and incitement." -Foucault in "History of Sexuality I"
_____________________
"Nico seemed so beautiful only because her femininity appeared so completely put on . She emanated something more than beauty, something more sublime, a different seduction. And there was deception: she was a false drag queen, a real woman, in fact, playing the queen. It is easier for a nonfemale/female than for a real woman, already legitimated by her sex, to move amongst the signs and take seduction to the limit. Only the non-female/female can exercise an untainted fascination, because s/he is more seductive than sexual . The fascination is lost when the real sex shows through; to be sure, some other desire may find something here, but precisely no longer in that perfection that belongs to artifice alone. Seduction is always more singular and sublime than sex, and it commands the higher price." -from Baudrillard "Seduction"
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"Schizoanalysis and Collectivity
To be anti-oedipal is to be anti-ego as well as anti-homo, willfully attacking all reductive psychoanalytic and political analyses that remain caught within the sphere of totality and unity, in order to free the multiplicity of desire from the deadly neurotic and Oedipal yoke. For Oedipus is not a mere psychoanalytic construct, Deleuze and Guattari explain. Oedipus is the figurehead of imperialism, "colonization pursued by other means, it is the interior colony, and we shall see that even here at home ... it is our intimate colonial education." This internalization of man by man, this "oedipalization," creates a new meaning for suffering, internal suffering, and a new tone for life: the depressive tone. Now depression does not just come about one fine day, Anti-Oedipus goes on, nor does Oedipus appear one day in the Family and feel secure in remaining there. Depression and Oedipus are agencies of the State, agencies of paranoia, agencies of power, long before being delegated to the family. Oedipus is the figure of power as such, just as neurosis is the result of power on individuals. Oedipus is everywhere. For anti-oedipalists the ego, like Oedipus, is "part of those things we must dismantle through the united assault of analytical and political forces ."4 Oedipus is belief injected into the unconscious, it is what gives us faith as it robs us of power, it is what teaches us to desire our own repression. Everybody has been oedipalized and neuroticized at home, at school, at work. Everybody wants to be a fascist. Deleuze and Guattari want to know how these beliefs succeed in taking hold of a body, thereby silencing the productive machines of the libido. They also want to know how the opposite situation is brought about, where a body successfully wards off the effects of power. Reversing the Freudian distinction between neurosis and psychosis that measures everything against the former, Anti-Oedipus concludes: the neurotic is the one on whom the Oedipal imprints take, whereas the psychotic is the one incapable of being oedipalized, even and especially by psychoanalysis. The first task of the revolutionary, they add, is to learn from the psychotic how to shake off the Oedipal yoke and the effects of power, in order to initiate a radical politics of desire freed from all beliefs. Such a politics dissolves the mystifications of power through the kindling, on all levels, of anti-oedipal forces—the schizzes-flows—forces that escape coding, scramble the codes, and flee in all directions: orphans (no daddy-mommy-me), atheists (no beliefs), and nomads (no habits, no territories). A schizoanalysis schizophrenizes in order to break the holds of power and institute research into a new collective subjectivity and a revolutionary healing of mankind. For we are sick, so sick, of our selves!
It is actually not accurate to say that Deleuze and Guattari develop the schizoanalytic approach, for, as they show, it has always been at work in writers like Miller or Nietzsche or Artaud. Stoned thinking based on intensely lived experiences: Pop Philosophy.
To put it simply, as does Miller, "everybody becomes a healer the moment he forgets about himself." And Miller continues: "Reality is here and now, everywhere, gleaming through every reflection that meets the eye. . . . Everybody is a neurotic, down to the last man and woman. The healer, or the analyst, if you like, is only a super-neurotic. ... To be cured we must rise from our graves and throw off the cerements of the dead. Nobody can do it for another—it is a private affair which is best done collectively."5 Once we forget about our egos a non-neurotic form of politics becomes possible, where singularity and collectivity are no longer at odds with each other, and where collective expressions of desire are possible. Such a politics does not seek to regiment individuals according to a totalitarian system of norms, but to de-normalize and de-individualize through a multiplicity of new, collective arrangements against power. Its goal is the transformation of human relationships in a struggle against power. And it urges militant groups, as well as lone individuals, to analyze and fight against the effects of power that subjugate them: "For a revolutionary group at the preconscious level remains a subjugated group, even in seizing power, as long as this power itself refers to a form of force that continues to enslave and crush desiring-production. ... A subject-group, on the contrary, is a group whose libidinal investments are themselves revolutionary, it causes desire to penetrate into the social field, and subordinates the socius or the forms of power to desiring-production; productive of desire and a desire that produces, the subject-group always invents mortal forma- tions that exorcize the effusion in it of a death instinct; it opposes real coefficients of transversality to the symbolic determinations of subjugation, coefficients without a hierarchy or a group superego." There can be no revolutionary actions, Anti-Oedipus concludes, where the the relations between people and groups are relations of exclusion and segregation. Groups must multiply and connect in ever new ways, freeing up territorialities for the construction of new social arrangements. Theory must therefore be conceived as a toolbox, producing tools that work; or as Ivan Illich says, we must learn to construct tools for conviviality through the use of counterfoil research.6 When Illich speaks of "convivial reconstruction," he is very close to Deleuze and Guattari's notion of a "desiring-revolution." Like Deleuze and Guattari, Illich also calls for a radical reversal of the relationships between individuals and tools or machines: "This reversal would permit the evolution of a life-style and of a political system which give priority to the protection, the maximum use, and the enjoyment of the one resource that is almost equally distributed among all people: personal energy under personal control."7 All three authors agree that such a reversal must be governed by a collective political process, and not by professionals and experts. The ultimate answer to neurotic dependencies on professionals is mutual self-care.8
Freed from a psychoanalytic framework, the political group or collective cannot, however, push aside the problem of desire. Nor can it leave desire in the hands of new experts. It must analyze the function of desire, in itself and in the groups with which it is involved. What is the function of desire, Anti-Oedipus asks, if not one of making connections? For to be bogged down in arrangements from which escape is possible is to be neurotic, seeing an irresolvable crisis where alternatives in fact exist. And as Deleuze and Guattari comment, "perhaps it will be discovered that the only incurable is the neurotic."
We defend so cautiously against our egoically limited experiences, states Laing in The Politics of Ex perience, that it is not surprising to see people grow defensive and panic at the idea of experiencing ego-loss through the use of drugs or collective experiences. But there is nothing pathological about ego-loss, Laing adds; quite the contrary. Ego-loss is the experience of all mankind, "of the primal man, of Adam and perhaps even [a journey] further into the beings of animals, vegetables and minerals."9 No age, Laing concludes, has so lost touch with this healing process as has ours. Deleuze and Guattari's schizoanalytic approach serves to begin such a healing process. Its major task is to destroy the oedipalized and neuroticized individual dependencies through the forg- ing of a collective subjectivity, a nonfascist subject—anti-Oedipus. Anti-Oedipus is an individual or a group that no longer functions in terms of beliefs and that comes to redeem mankind, as Nietzsche foresaw, not only from the ideals that weighed it down, "but also from that which was bound to grow out of it, the great nausea, the will to nothingness, nihilism; this bell-stroke of noon and of the great decision that liberates the will again and restores its goal to the earth and his hope to man; this Antichrist and antinihilist. . . He must come one day.—"10
Unlike Nietzsche's antinihilist, however, Deleuze and Guattari's anti-Oedipus is not alone. Anti-Oedipus is not the superman, It is not transcendent. Where Nietzsche grew progressively more isolated to the point of madness, Deleuze and Guattari call for actions and passions of a collective nature, here and now. Madness is a radical break from power in the form of a disconnection. Militancy, in Deleuze and Guattari's framework, would learn from madness but then move beyond it, beyond disconnections and deterritorializations, to ever new connections. A politics of desire would see loneliness and depression as the first things to go. Such is the anti-oedipal strategy: if man is connected to the machines of the universe, if he is in tune with his desires, if he is "anchored," "he ceases to worry about the fitness of things, about the behavior of his fellow-men, about right or wrong and justice and injustice. If his roots are in the current of life he will float on the surface like a lotus and he will blossom and give forth fruit. . . . The life that's in him will manifest itself in growth, and growth is an endless, eternal process. The process is everything."11 It is this process—of desiring-production—that Anti-Oedipus sets out to analyze.
For if desire is repressed in a society, Deleuze and Guattari state, this is hardly because "it is a desire for the mother or for the death of the father; on the contrary, desire becomes that only because it is repressed, it takes that mask on under the reign of the repression that models the mask for it and plasters it on its face. . . . The real danger is elsewhere. If desire is repressed, it is because every position of desire, no matter how small, is capable of calling into question the established order of a society: not that desire is asocial; on the contrary. But it is explosive; there is no desiring-machine capable of being assembled without demolishing entire social sectors."
Deleuze and Guattari conclude that desire, any desiring-machine, i; always a combination of various elements and forces of all types. Hence the need to listen not only to revolutionaries but to all those who know how to be truly objective: "Revolutionaries, artists, and seers an content to be objective, merely objective: they know that desire clasps life in its powerfully productive embrace, and reproduces it in a way all the more intense because it has few needs. And never mind those who believe that this is very easy to say, or that it is the sort of idea to be found in books."
-Mark Seem, from the Introduction to "Anti-Oedipus" by Deleuze/Guattari
I've changed the topic-title. This topic is now more general and deals with the "repression of sexuality in modernity" also. Like my last posting above.
One thing about porn and it's popularity may be: that it is violent. Most of it. Violence is something that is cast out of modernity. It is considered evil, like Hannibal Lecter. Sex in the public image is flowery and nice and lovely. And something like chewing chewing gum. That you do, without much involvement or emotions. Porn is the other side of this falseness. Both are false. In Porn violence is exaggerated, making up for the other extreme of the lovely image sex has in the public mainstream. Both extremes are wrong and symptoms of modern denial of nature. A repressed sexuality in mass culture.
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 37183 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
Porn is violent. It is pure activity, with no spiritual content. Flesh on flesh...pure emotion, pure sensation with no goal, no motive, no reason.
Penetration is a violent act. The entire culture is built on violence and vileness. The female is FUCKED...debased, lowered to her lowest level. The male FUCKS angrily...with resentment. He expunges his repressed masculinity. He explodes with pressurized instincts.
Porn is mostly male oriented, because it is the male which must be turned from a free-radical into a brain-dead, docile, spent, automaton. A corpse acting out of unfocused, undiscriminating hunger.
A male fucks just about anything: fat, short, ugly, animal, cripple...ANYTHING. He does not make love to it...he hammers it.
Re: the My Little Pony guy (I assume he's a guy), I know of other young men today who are emamoured of the My Little Pony tv show. From a woman's perspective, I find this incredibly dismaying. (These are toys that I played with when I was ten.)
How old we now? In fact, this is one reason I subbed to Satyr's channel and was led to this forum...this entire culture of men acting like children/girls is frightening to me, not in a sense of actually being scared, but frightening in that it seems like an entire civilisation and culture is just going down the drain. I can't even believe there are men in their twenties and thirties who are MLP fans.
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 37183 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
Retardation is a stunting of mind and body. Sheltering does this.
Domestication is just that. Is not a dog, especially certain breeds, a retardation of the canine species? The excessive friendliness...the fearlessness....the curiosity not retrained by experience...the constant desire to play, to expel energies with no goal, no direction, no outcome...like casual sex.
What are we being asked to value?
Living in the moment - the very definition of the animal experience. Youthfulness - perpetual inexperience and naivete. Impulsive behavior - giving in to the immediate, again as an animal would. A shrinking of one's perceptual-event-horizon....a castration from the past: a loss of identity, a contra-nature, a loss of a counter-balance to the immediate - no reference point.
All this amounts to an absence of spirituality. Now give one so empty an extreme, a caricature to overcompensate for the internal void, and you've got a religious fanatic, a zealot.
Violence is the part of life that is cast out of modernity. Take the packaged meat in the supermarket. No blood, few bones, smiling pigs and chicken on the package. And then watch a documentary like "Earthlings", to see how the animals are treated before they are slaughtered and how. Every non-Vegetarian should be at least required to watch this.
Sex too is only taught to children in a too immature way. "When two people love each other very very much, then the man and the woman....". Porn is the other side to this false (christianized, exoteric, purely functional: BIOLOGICAL) demystification. (The penis is errect and is inserted into the vagina.) It adds the missing element. The base pure lust. The motivation. (Of course too in a lowered functional mechanic way in todays porn, but there was porn literature in the centuries in the past.)
That's why I link porn to christianity (and delete the second vid, I posted initially to provoke a bit, with the two ex-porn stars, who are now christians). It too has the lower side completely suppressed/repressed. But IT wants out. And IT is getting out. Porn shows this. But so do all the broken relationships, marriages and so on. We are out of balance. Guilt is a factor. Christianity made the body into something guilty. In occult knowledge the body is very much revered and the sexual intercourse between man and woman is something holy. Just not in this sense of "modern Love" or something modern. (Love is a misleading term today. Of course it was more meaningful earlier.) It is a commitment. A ritual with meaning.
Paraphrasing from the Sohar: Neither do I tell the heaven to listen, nor do I tell the earth to listen, for we are pillars of this earth.
In tibetan Buddhism, we have the image of the Lotusflower for the womans sex organ (white and pure). In the rituals we have the bell and the dorje. Demonstrating that male and female belong together and have to be balanced.
Porn to me is the most obvious sign of how out of balance Judeo-Christianity actually is and shaped this perverse modernity of repression/guilt/shame and massive perversion as a logical result of this on the other hand (porn).
And Freud and the Psychologists added to this shame and guilt by making up this Oedipus complex and investigating sexuality in children and labeling everything in a shaming way.
You're a "flavor of the month" kind of guy, aren't you?
I know that pisses you westerners off. Even if you've read Heraclitus, but that's as eastern as you're willing to look.
I believe there are many different currents. I kind of adapted yours, when coming here. Now I am trying to find mine. I am a Freud critic today. I read him in my early 20's and was impressed back then. Today I think he caused the 1968 movement. (Not he alone, of course.) The "sexual liberation" that actually went the other way round and killed off any natural relation to sexuality within society. See the 1980's until today, where money equals access to sex and everything is exaggerated and not natural anymore, as the outcome of 1968.
I see Porn as the re-introduction of the phallic cultus and the eradication of the virgin mother cultus. The worshipper bows to the whore who then bows to the supreme phallus. Then the consummation takes place and the worshipper is enslaved to the phallus via the whore.
By the way, I notice that many porn actors are circumcised. And yet Yahweh was called a castrated God.
It can only mean one thing: the mysteries are back.
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 37183 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
The phallus is now in the mind. It has become incorporeal or a member unattached to a human. A cock flapping in mid-air, with no man behind it...or with a man that does not matter. A cock mind-fucking, spreading its memes in as many brains as possible.
It is the cock, serving a master that cannot have one. Circumcision is how the slave pays homage to his castrated God.
The phallus is now in the mind. It has become incorporeal or a member unattached to a human. A cock flapping in mid-air, with no man behind it...or with a man that does not matter.
What do you suppose is this about? Is there some purpose being served?
Quote :
It is the cock, serving a master that cannot have one. Circumcision is how the slave pays homage to his castrated God.
I don't see how circumcision is very relevant to castration, as no potential is lost. I think it has to do with occult phallus-worship.
Slaughtz
Gender : Posts : 2593 Join date : 2012-04-28 Age : 33 Location : A stone.
The phallus is now in the mind. It has become incorporeal or a member unattached to a human. A cock flapping in mid-air, with no man behind it...or with a man that does not matter.
What do you suppose is this about? Is there some purpose being served?
-
Quote :
Quote :
It is the cock, serving a master that cannot have one. Circumcision is how the slave pays homage to his castrated God.
I don't see how circumcision is very relevant to castration, as no potential is lost. I think it has to do with occult phallus-worship.
He was saying circumcision is a way of paying homage to a castrated God. Circumcision has been practiced by Jews, who worship a God that has no genitalia because it doesn't exist (thus castrated, no genitalia.) Ancient Pagans worshiped worldly Gods, who served only as symbols for natural phenomena. Meaning, you could witness God(s) in another human being - thus not castrated - providing there's someone of such temperance.
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 37183 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
What do you suppose is this about? Is there some purpose being served?
The spirit of man has been detached....his past.
The body is a manifestation of the past...the member is a body part with no past. It is disconnected from the entirety...made immediate...another good to be consumed, to be used, to be enjoyed and then recycled.
I looked into Foucault and Deleuze/Guattari to find Freudian critics, because I consider Freud Leftist. To find out that their "Antipsychiatry" (Freud "Criticism") really was to promote (!) freudian ideas, when those were already in the decline. At least Foucault is TRASH, but had me fooled with his intellectual "discourse".
Slaughtz
Gender : Posts : 2593 Join date : 2012-04-28 Age : 33 Location : A stone.
What do you suppose is this about? Is there some purpose being served?
The spirit of man has been detached....his past.
The body is a manifestation of the past...the member is a body part with no past. It is disconnected from the entirety...made immediate...another good to be consumed, to be used, to be enjoyed and then recycled.
Interesting way of looking at it. Was I incorrect in how I first interpreted what you said or is this an elaboration?
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 37183 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
What do you suppose is this about? Is there some purpose being served?
The spirit of man has been detached....his past.
The body is a manifestation of the past...the member is a body part with no past. It is disconnected from the entirety...made immediate...another good to be consumed, to be used, to be enjoyed and then recycled.
Interesting way of looking at it. Was I incorrect in how I first interpreted what you said or is this an elaboration?
You were right. A castrated God is a nihilistic god.
_________________ γνῶθι σεαυτόν μηδέν άγαν
Lyssa Har Har Harr
Gender : Posts : 8965 Join date : 2012-03-01 Location : The Cockpit
In my initial posting on here I didn't criticise masturbation. It's porn consumption I criticized. Especially internet porn and it's effect on the brain and libido. There is quite a large anti-porn movement on the web, some religious of course who condemn masturbation also. This is not why I posted this topic.
Satyr Daemon
Gender : Posts : 37183 Join date : 2009-08-24 Age : 58 Location : Hyperborea
Any "addiction" indicates a weakness which is more than just temporary. The form an addiction takes, further clarifies the nature of the weakness.
Because human nature is more complex than animal nature, and because of the abstractive character of human culture, the need underlying the addiction is not easy to decipher. Yet, the simpler the individual is, all the more easy it is to determine the nature underlying the addiction. More complex minds require more complex analysis and explanation...but the same, basic, factors are at play, because we are all part of the same species.
The category "species", should be enough to decide the first step towards determining the addiction's source.
_________________ γνῶθι σεαυτόν μηδέν άγαν
Lyssa Har Har Harr
Gender : Posts : 8965 Join date : 2012-03-01 Location : The Cockpit
''The purpose of this study is to gain understanding of the relationship between ejaculation and serum testosterone level in men. The serum testosterone concentrations of 28 volunteers were investigated daily during abstinence periods after ejaculation for two phases. The authors found that the fluctuations of testosterone levels from the 2nd to 5th day of abstinence were minimal. On the 7th day of abstinence, however, a clear peak of serum testosterone appeared, reaching 145.7% of the baseline (P<0.01). No regular fluctuation was observed following continuous abstinence after the peak. Ejaculation is the precondition and beginning of the special periodic serum testosterone level variations, which would not occur without ejaculation. The results showed that ejaculation-caused variations were characterized by a peak on the 7th day of abstinence; and that the effective time of anejaculation, is 7 days minimum. These data are the first to document the phenomenon of the periodic change in serum testosterone level; the correlation between ejaculation and periodic change in the serum testosterone level, and the pattern and characteristics of the periodic change.'' [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Alan Brown: ''The Germans used pornography in the prelude to the attack on Poland in 1939, flooding the border markets with cheap erotica and hard-core stuff. The effect it has on men is to symbolically emasculate them, greatly reducing their will to fight.'' [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
OhFortunae
Gender : Posts : 2311 Join date : 2013-10-26 Age : 30 Location : Land of Dance and Song
_________________ 1. "Youth, oh, youth! | of whom then, youth, art thou born? Say whose son thou art, Who in Fafnir's blood | thy bright blade reddened, And struck thy sword to my heart."
2. "The Noble Hart | my name, and I go A motherless man abroad; Father I had not, | as others have, And lonely ever I live."
i just happen to love that movie. wts the big deal?
